My Little Gramarist: SCIENCE! is Magic [Gramarie Discussion]

[qazzquimby]

@Biollurgy
Sorry, I'll finish ARCD at some point. It's just so tedious, whenever I get started I get little done and stop.

@Acoustamantics
You might have the opposite problem I have. While the development and presentation were good, the initial idea wasn't all it would have to be for a new discipline. What you have written now would probably work best as a sub-discipline for either ARCD or IMCH, which is not a bad thing. With a little adaptation in wording it could function that way more or less as is, it just wouldn't get the traffic of normal disciplines. Like a discipline PRC.

If you want to make a stand-alone discipline, you need to go through a lot of ideas. If you don't, you can stop reading if you want.
General guidelines/strict laws:

• Rule one: No two things should have the same function. It's not a hard rule, but it keeps things special. Nothing new will create fire, or block information, or plane jump. This keeps every discipline necessary and makes every principle special (It's the way to do it, not a way to do it). If you want to know if something is already possible you can post here, PM me, or ask on the IRC.
• Rule two: A new discipline should be open ended and hopefully interact with existing disciplines. One of main aspects of gramarie is encouraging creativity. A red filter seems kind of mediocre on its own, but soon you're building lightsabers and sun submarines with it. If you can only think of a few uses for something after some thought, it's probably not enough. Interacting with existing gramarie doesn't have to be really thorough, but making it circuitable, use ebbs or involve planetary metals or something makes it a little more integrated.

As a natural consequence of following both those guidelines, the new discipline should make things possible that weren't possible before, which is an exciting thing.

Ideas I've had which haven't been developed yet:
Small transient planes.
Links between two things.

I should probably stop writing since I don't even know if you've any interest.

[Allnightmask]

It's nice to see some new content, can't think of any sound based ideas off the top of my head to add though.

Milo your write up of the BIOY principles is fantastic and for some reason I like 161 a heck of lot maybe because it's a clearer Hortistruction.

If that is the way the new generation of the gramarie system you fellows are putting together works, I'm stoked to see what's coming.

Might have the fire lit under me to make that prestige class for the old system now.

[Milo v3]

Milo your write up of the BIOY principles is fantastic and for some reason I like 161 a heck of lot maybe because it's a clearer Hortistruction.

If that is the way the new generation of the gramarie system you fellows are putting together works, I'm stoked to see what's coming.

Might have the fire lit under me to make that prestige class for the old system now.

Thanks

161 was soo painful... I think I went through seven variations of superscience grass alone

[JennTora]

@Biollurgy
Sorry, I'll finish ARCD at some point. It's just so tedious, whenever I get started I get little done and stop.

@Acoustamantics
You might have the opposite problem I have. While the development and presentation were good, the initial idea wasn't all it would have to be for a new discipline. What you have written now would probably work best as a sub-discipline for either ARCD or IMCH, which is not a bad thing. With a little adaptation in wording it could function that way more or less as is, it just wouldn't get the traffic of normal disciplines. Like a discipline PRC.

Could be right, though I'm still hoping I can expand it enough to be a standalone discipline. Hm... Maybe if I expand expand on the resonant frequency and vibration stuff a bit huge amount.

If you want to make a stand-alone discipline, you need to go through a lot of ideas. If you don't, you can stop reading if you want.
General guidelines/strict laws:

• Rule one: No two things should have the same function. It's not a hard rule, but it keeps things special. Nothing new will create fire, or block information, or plane jump. This keeps every discipline necessary and makes every principle special (It's the way to do it, not a way to do it). If you want to know if something is already possible you can post here, PM me, or ask on the IRC.
• Rule two: A new discipline should be open ended and hopefully interact with existing disciplines. One of main aspects of gramarie is encouraging creativity. A red filter seems kind of mediocre on its own, but soon you're building lightsabers and sun submarines with it. If you can only think of a few uses for something after some thought, it's probably not enough. Interacting with existing gramarie doesn't have to be really thorough, but making it circuitable, use ebbs or involve planetary metals or something makes it a little more integrated.

Guess I have to remove the "special effects" kind of stuff on metal melodies, or at least change them to something else. I was thinking I'd have to anyway, those just felt tacked on after I looked them over.

Okay, I'll see about making it more discipliny. If I can't seem to get it the way it needs to be I'll try and break it down into principles, feats, PrCs, etc.

@Milo That's true about the weight. Hm...

[qazzquimby]

You can ask questions if you want help.
If you want to be stand-alone in flexibility you probably need to lose the rock performance theme, and make that just an aspect of what it can do.

Effects within a radius?
Bardic music as a side feature of something, but not the emphasis (since it only has one use).
Not mind affecting (PSYM) not energy (ARCD) not space and time (YGGD). I'm having trouble. I'll post if I come up with anything, not that you'd be obliged to use it.

[BornValyrian]

Well, for acoussimantics, the two schools of magic that haven't been done as disciplines (though each has an associated PRC) are necromancy and conjuration (correct me if I am wrong). Bardic music effects can pretty much be done with existing things. I perhaps music-based summons or something? I don't know. As somebody who tried and failed to make a discipline, I kind of want to see this happen. Good luck

[JennTora]

You can ask questions if you want help.
If you want to be stand-alone flexibility you probably need to lose the rock performance theme, and make that just an aspect of what it can do.

Right. Well higher principles were different than all that. I could replace metal melodies with something else and either get rid of the effects or cram them into the first one. Maybe a bit much at that point.

One idea I had last night after reading where you mentioned linking two things was creating a resonance between two objects so that if, for instance you had two magic items which resonated with each other you could have them share abilities somehow. Though it needs to not be limited to magic items.

So say it could add a frequency to something, like how ac is essentially vibrating electricity(electricity with a frequency added) this might be like adding a frequency to puissance. Then when the two objects have those resonating oscillations of magical energy, it causes to seem to have the same properties. Or would that be too much like Alchemetry?

@BornValyrian
Someone did try to make one called Conjuronomy, but I don't think it ever got very far... The music based summoning idea is interesting. Though I think you can already make puissance elementals with puissamantics.

[qazzquimby]

I'm personally against automated conjuration because it negates resource gathering. If you want to conjure something now, fetch some, make a self sutaining farm, and YGGD one in. Working out your own way seems more fun than using a conjuration principle to me.

I like the idea of frequencies a lot, though you might want to make it the object, or a planted acoustimantic node that vibrates rather than puissance, else you look like puissamantics. Vibrating objects hum at their frequency, which means that the woofers and tweeters are useful for hiding sounds. Certain types of creatures should be able to hear the other frequencies, oozes for woofs maybe.
Just the ability to apply a frequency to something lets you differentiate it with smart heur bubbles.
Frequency linked things could
share damage
attempt to equalize health
share puissance
attempt to equalize puissance
share thoughts as a hive mind
share ALCH treatments
share all principles prepared on them, if they are linked at time of preparation
share movement
share temperature, or any other held trait

[Zale]

Now you can't make Outsiders with BIOY. I liked manufacturing artificial angels. It's so.. Phyrexian.

[qazzquimby]

Not even with new biollurgy? Couldn't you just sort of planeshift away, make a chassis, and planeshift you both back? Outsider is a silly type.

ARCD, im going to make each kind of transformer its own principle unless someone has a good reason not to.

[Zale]

Not even with new biollurgy? Couldn't you just sort of planeshift away, make a chassis, and planeshift you both back? Outsider is a silly type.

ARCD, im going to make each kind of transformer its own principle unless someone has a good reason not to.

Whoops, missed a line.

No longer applicable.

[Milo v3]

Whoops, missed a line.

No longer applicable.

Phew.... Thought I missed another type for a second...

[Leviting]

With BIOY 273, what does "chassis gains a soul" do for the chassis (or grammarist) ? I was just wondering because sapience is gained with a different principle. Also, this would allow a sapient soulless chassis, unless that was intended.

[Milo v3]

With BIOY 273, what does "chassis gains a soul" do for the chassis (or grammarist) ? I was just wondering because sapience is gained with a different principle.

Gets an Afterlife, can be affected by Resurrection and Trap the Soul, that sorta stuff.

[Leviting]

thanks, that makes sense. I should have thought of that.

[Zale]

Gets an Afterlife, can be affected by Resurrection and Trap the Soul, that sorta stuff.

But what about beings that lack a dual nature, like Outsiders?

[Leviting]

But what about beings that lack a dual nature, like Outsiders?

Maybe the aforementioned sapient, yet soulless, chassis? That would end up being a pretty horrifying realization though (for the chassis). I'm just wondering where the outsider/chassis' consciousness goes upon death.

[Milo v3]

But what about beings that lack a dual nature, like Outsiders?

I like to think they are incomplete if you will. With only the "surface" of them existing, not a true complete soul that a normal outsiders body is formed from. This would likely be a great source of angst for Elementals and Outsiders without souls.

[qazzquimby]

It may not be important, but the dethanatologist uses souls similarly to sentience. Put a soul in a tree and it's awakened. Pull a soul out of someone and they're mindless. I could change that, but I'd rather not, and I can't think of another way to fit the same effects.

[Mith]

But what about beings that lack a dual nature, like Outsiders?

I believe they just merge with their plane of existence.

With regards to AMT, I like the Tesla Tower, maybe have it that devices need a converter to transmit the ebbs from air to the device, since they are not set up to do that before.

As for as a whole, I can see resonance as a subset of EDLK (movement versus resonance). As for applicatio ns to develop it further, IDK.

[Milo v3]

It may not be important, but the dethanatologist uses souls similarly to sentience. Put a soul in a tree and it's awakened. Pull a soul out of someone and they're mindless. I could change that, but I'd rather not, and I can't think of another way to fit the same effects.

Ok, I've moved soul giving and sentience back to being one thing.

Also, I've increased the amount of HD chassis get... Simply because it's just... far too low

EDIT:
Aaannnnd Biollurgy is done. Sorta. Effectively. It's completed to the extent that the original material has all been Updated. Now..... hmm.... Could make some Military Science I guess

[qazzquimby]

Or you could translate one of the other disciplines. I promise I'll get ARCD done within today and tomorrow. The faster everything is rewrit, the faster we focus on producing and refining content again.

[Milo v3]

Or you could translate one of the other disciplines. I promise I'll get ARCD done within today and tomorrow. The faster everything is rewrit, the faster we focus on producing and refining content again.

Hmm.... Lets see.... ALCH or GEOC could be fun.

[qazzquimby]

After sludging through paint doodles and sonic furries for the last hour, I resign. If anyone finds a good ARCD picture, please send it to me.

[Milo v3]

After sludging through paint doodles and sonic furries for the last hour, I resign. If anyone finds a good ARCD picture, please send it to me.

http://jorcerca.deviantart.com/art/I...nnon-205999649
http://vincentmdantes.
http://cubseidl.deviantart.com/art/T...Gauge-64622534

[qazzquimby]

The second two are broken, but I appreciate them anyway.

Where should put miscellaneous principles that effect all types of transformer? Just putting them in a course with a type of transformer would make them hard to find, and putting them in their own course might be overkill.

Is there much conversation happening on the IRC? I haven't been on in ages, distracted with ozodrins and trissociates.

What do people think about merging ELDK into ARCD, since engines are essentially just kinetic energy outputs?
The glorious planned changes for ELDK could continue to exist, but they would be adapted to work with any outputs.

[Leviting]

If we did that, would engines have to also work as inputs? or would they be like the enthalpic transformer? What about the more exotic engines, like lightning leap and whatnot? Just curious.

[Zale]

---

So I decided to play with the new BIOY rules.

Please point out any terrible mistakes.

Spoiler: BEHOLD

Show

The Zilla

Size/Type: Immense Dragon
Hit Dice: 21d12+168 (304 hp)
Initiative: 4
Speed: 90 ft, swim 90 ft
Armor Class: 0, touch 0, flat-footed 0 (-32 size, +7 natural)
Base Attack/Grapple: +21/+50
Attack: Bite +26 melee (4d6+13)
Full Attack: Bite +26 melee (4d6+13 plus 1d6 fire), 2 claws +24 (2d6+13) and tail +24 (1d6+13)
Space/Reach: 50 ft./50 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Fire Nimbus, Fire Attack, Improved Grab, Mutilate, Rake 4d6, Swallow Whole
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, DR 15/Magic, Fast Healing 15, Immune to sleep, paralysis and fire, Low-light vision, Spell Resistance 46, Ferocity, Frightful Presence, takes half damage from electricity and quarter damage from cold.
Saves: Fort +20, Ref +12, Will +12
Abilities: Str 36, Dex 10, Con 26, Int 2, Wis 10, Cha 2
Skills: Balance +10, Jump +23, Swim +23, Spot +8, Listen +10
Feats: Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Awesome Blow, Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack (Bite), Ability Focus (Breath Weapon)
Environment: Large Coastal Towns
Organization: One
Challange Rating: ??
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Neutral
Advancement: - Favored Class: -
Level Adjustment: —

Breath Weapon (Su): 20d6 fire in a 180 foot cone, DC 28 reflex save to halve damage taken.

Fire Nimbus (Su): As a standard action, the Zilla may surround itself in a roiling aura of flame. All creatures within 5 feet take 10d6 fire damage every turn. The Zilla must take a swift action every turn following activation to sustain the nimbus. A DC 26 reflex save halves the damage taken.

Fire Attacks (Su): The Zilla's bite does an additional 1d6 fire damage. The Zilla may suppress or activate this ability as a swift action.

Ferocity (Ex): The Zilla may act with no penalty when at or below zero hit points. It gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls and will saves for every five hit points below zero. The Zilla dies at -40 hitpoints, rather than at -10.

Frightful Presence (Ex): Whenever the Zilla critically hits, performs a charge or uses a special ability, all enemies within 60 ft are forced to make a DC 16 Will Save or become frightened for 1 round. Once a creature has successfully saved against this ability it gains immunity to it for 24 hours.


Mutilate (Ex): As a swift action, after successfully delivering a bite attack to his target or whenever it scores a critical hit with a bite attack (without need for a swift action), the Zilla can trash and rend at his opponent’s flesh. The Zilla's target must succeed on a fortitude save or the Zilla damages one of his arms or legs (of the Zilla's choice) to the point of inutility. An inutilized arm cannot be used to wield a weapon, shield or material components, nor can it be used for anything else, an inutilized leg halves the target’s movement speed, prevents him from running or charging and requires a DC 5 balance check each round (and whenever the victim suffers an attack) to keep standing, a creature with both legs inutilized cannot move except by crawling up to 5 feet as a standard action. Furthermore, even if the victim succeeds its save, the wound bleeds profusely, dealing 1 point of damage on each round, the bleed damage from multiple wounds stacks.

Inutilized arms and legs can be restored with a Regeneration spell and similar effects and abilities. The bleeding caused by this ability can be stopped by any healing

Swallow Whole (Ex): The Zilla can swallow a grabbed opponent at least two size categories smaller than it by making a successful grapple check.
A swallowed creature takes 6d8+24 points of bludgeoning damage plus 24 points of acid damage each round from the Zilla’s gizzard. A swallowed opponent can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 45 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 0). Once the opponent exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.
The gizzard of a Zilla can hold up to 1 colossal, 4 gargantuan, 16 huge or 64 large or smaller opponents.

Should it desire to, the Zilla can vomit the contents of his stomach as a full round action.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a Zilla must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.

[qazzquimby]

I haven't thought them all through, but when anything in their net would be moved in the in the transformer's direction or method, the movement is cancelled and the push is converted into ebbs. This does become pretty imperfect with things like lightningleap and beeform, with unique effects. Every solution that comes to mind is pretty gross. Ignore the unique effects and just have lightning leap absorb teleportation effects or whatever fits best, remove the unique qualities and just make it a teleport effect, link each engine with an existing transformer (lightning leap is copper), just have outputs whenever an input would be difficult. All ideas are bad.

[Leviting]

wasn't lightningleap made of mercury? Or is that being changed. I know there is a mercury transformer in the "base grammarie"