Nice review from Howard Tayler

[Erk]

Howard Tayler of Schlock Mercenary has some nice things to say about Erfworld and OOTS both. Just thought I would share for those who aren't schlockers or who don't read the blog posts.

[The_Old_Fox]

As a lazy guy who doesn't read blogs and likes Erfworld, thanks for point that out.

glad to see the gospel of Erfworld is spreading.

[Ikkitosen]

Thanks for the linky - a very interesting read, especially the comments made from people who had just discovered Erfworld.

[pclips]

And I'd add that Howard and his comic are two of the best things about webcomics, period.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Howard is part of the influential big three in my mind- he has been running for a long time, his comic has improved with age, and he has a massive fanbase. The other people in the influential big three (which actually comprises of four people) are Mike Krahulik, Jerry Holkins, and Scott Kurtz. These four people have an influence that is so far reaching that a yay or nay by one of them is more effective at advertising something than a million dollar ad campaign. The Giant is in a lesser circle of influence, along with Jeph Jacques, Pontus and Christian, Dan Shive and Piro. I believe Rob and Jami will become high status members in the circle of lesser influence, because, no offense, I cannot see ANY comic dethroning Penny Arcade and PvP as the most popular webcomics.

[Erk]

While I don't entirely agree with your list of the webcomic who's-who, I definitely agree that Howard Tayler is one of the big ones. I can't think of a more successful sci-fi webcomic.

[SPoD]

Howard is part of the influential big three in my mind- he has been running for a long time, his comic has improved with age, and he has a massive fanbase. The other people in the influential big three (which actually comprises of four people) are Mike Krahulik, Jerry Holkins, and Scott Kurtz. These four people have an influence that is so far reaching that a yay or nay by one of them is more effective at advertising something than a million dollar ad campaign. The Giant is in a lesser circle of influence, along with Jeph Jacques, Pontus and Christian, Dan Shive and Piro.

Howard writes great stuff, but his comic has a much smaller fanbase than OOTS. Check their Alexa* rank, GITP is way ahead of Shlock Mercenary. In fact, almost all of the people you listed as being "lesser circle of influence" are head and shoulders above Howard's traffic. I'm not saying Schlock's not as good, I think it's fantastic, but I think you have it backwards about who is the big player and who is not.

I give you the Alexa comparison graph of OOTS vs. Shlock vs. Megatokyo vs. Questionable Content vs. El Goonish Shive; click and see. Note GITP has the highest ranking of all five:


EDIT: For completeness, note this graph comparing Rich, Howard, PVP, and Penny Arcade. Call me crazy, but I think Rich could take Scott Kurtz down as the #2 webcomic this year.


* Yes, I know Alexa has flaws, but it's good enough for a ballpark and the five minutes I was willing to spend researching this.

[Erk]

Well, Rich now has two comics running on gitp, so from around now on alexa will be even more flawed for gauging oots' popularity. It has one very successful webcomic, plus however many hits are coming in for erfworld, which are bound to increase as it makes itself known in the coming months. Even if it doesn't become hugely popular, that still gives oots an alexa boost.

But anyway, IMO it is not so much about readerbase as influence in the community. The two are similar, but not the same... Tayler basically speaks for the sci-fi webcomics community (although I think Kris Straub is the heir to the throne, since he is also an oldbie with a popular comic... I don't think Starslip has really been around long enough for him to qualify yet, but I am sure there are many who disagree), while PA is the gamer bunch, megatokyo the pseudomanga stuff, QC the indie rock group, OOTS the d&d gamers, sluggy freelance the... what is pete anyway, besides cool? Well, blah blah on and on for every niche of people that read comics. But discussions of who are the influential comic artists generally boil down to "I like ____ and it is well-known, ergo it is the most important comic in ____ group".

[erewhon]

Howard is part of the influential big three in my mind- he has been running for a long time, his comic has improved with age, and he has a massive fanbase. The other people in the influential big three (which actually comprises of four people) are Mike Krahulik, Jerry Holkins, and Scott Kurtz.

I've never heard of any of these guys. Links to their work, maybe? :)

Also, no mention of Pete Abrams of Sluggy? He's been running for ten years, man, five or more updates most weeks. He's IRONMAN. :)

These four people have an influence that is so far reaching that a yay or nay by one of them is more effective at advertising something than a million dollar ad campaign.

If you say so. :)

The Giant is in a lesser circle of influence, along with Jeph Jacques, Pontus and Christian, Dan Shive and Piro.

I've heard of Jeph, Shive and Piro. QC is a fun little soap opera, El Goonish is deliciously weird, but megatokyo is just...uh. Not my cup of tea? And I'm usually a sucker for pretty artwork. :) Who is Pontus and Christian?

And, no mention of John Allison of Scary-Go-Round?

I believe Rob and Jami will become high status members in the circle of lesser influence, because, no offense, I cannot see ANY comic dethroning Penny Arcade and PvP as the most popular webcomics.

Ugh. Those guys? There's no accounting for taste, I suppose. I never "got" the panda's....

As for who is best, give it time. :D OOTS is currently at a level of goodness rarely seen in ANY medium, and Erfworld is off to one helluva start, if I may say so myself. Webcomics are a young and vigorous medium, to put it mildly.

Heck, I can remember when Peanuts was the best daily strip running. :D

And of course, we should all know and honor the great-grandfather of all webcomics, the towering, near supernatural talent of Windsor McCay and his luminescent, full-page full-color "Little Nemo in Slumberland," still awesome a century after it was made:

www.sundaypressbooks.com

Wow. Do we live in a great world, or what? :D

[SPoD]

Well, Rich now has two comics running on gitp, so from around now on alexa will be even more flawed for gauging oots' popularity. It has one very successful webcomic, plus however many hits are coming in for erfworld, which are bound to increase as it makes itself known in the coming months. Even if it doesn't become hugely popular, that still gives oots an alexa boost.

Eventually? Perhaps. Right now, I imagine that there are scant few Erfworld readers who aren't also reading OOTS. Even if they like Erfworld better, they probably are at least looking at OOTS, too.

But anyway, IMO it is not so much about readerbase as influence in the community. The two are similar, but not the same... Tayler basically speaks for the sci-fi webcomics community...(SNIP)...OOTS the d&d gamers..(SNIP)...But discussions of who are the influential comic artists generally boil down to "I like ____ and it is well-known, ergo it is the most important comic in ____ group".

Totally agree. I wasn't saying that OOTS is better than Shlock, I find them quite on a par with each other, I was just saying that I think that particular poster was confusing his personal favorite webcomics for the most popular webcomics.

[Erk]

Eventually? Perhaps. Right now, I imagine that there are scant few Erfworld readers who aren't also reading OOTS. Even if they like Erfworld better, they probably are at least looking at OOTS, too.

Well, of course, but dude, it's 17 pages long and has only been up for like six weeks. This is probably the first relatively major link to it outside of OOTS and pclips. It's inevitable that given its quality level it will eventually have some of its own readership... even if it winds up sucking horribly (which at this stage seems very unlikely) there will be some people who find they like it enough to check gitp for erfworld. Hence my establishing that the change would apply sometime in the future.

[pclips]

This is probably the first relatively major link to it outside of OOTS and pclips.

Second, actually.

I'm not touching this debate but I am enjoying the heck out of lurking. Webcomics traffic is a subject on which I have some knowledge. I'm always interested in how it's perceived, and the assumptions readers and creators make. Carry on!

[Erk]

;) if I had a webcomic I would totally lurk its forums and scan google for references to it.

[Shadow of the Sun]

As I said, influential over popular. Popularity is also a major concern, but Schlock has more influence than most other webcomics around. Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins are Gabe and Tycho- I just prefer using their real names over their names in the comic.

[jami]

Second, actually.

I'm not touching this debate but I am enjoying the heck out of lurking. Webcomics traffic is a subject on which I have some knowledge. I'm always interested in how it's perceived, and the assumptions readers and creators make. Carry on!

Huhhwhhuuu? Rob Balder NOT talking about webcomic traffic?

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE REAL ROB BALDER!?

[Green Bean]

I've always felt that induction into the "big leagues" of webcomicry is based on whether or not you can overload another sites bandwidth by linking to them on your front page...

[pclips]

Huhhwhhuuu? Rob Balder NOT talking about webcomic traffic?

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE REAL ROB BALDER!?

Rob Balder not talking in a public forum about the hard data he's collected on the subject is very Rob Balder. If a creator meets me in person I will chew their ear off about it.

[Om]

As I said, influential over popular.

Indeed. Otherwise Tim Buckley would officially be God

But with the exception of one or two names I'd pretty much agree with Shadow of the Sun's list of the "top league" names.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Yeah, although I read CAD, Tim Buckley is a tool. His stuff isn't funny, but it is compelling, in much the same way as a nuclear explosion is. I think the big circles of influence contain a lot of people who live of their comic alone- which isn't the same as popular- look at Howard, his comic is not the most popular out there, but he can live off of it. Another reason he is so influential is that he has never missed an update, not in however long he has been running. Such dedication carries a lot of favour in the webcomic community.

Oh, Pontus Madsen and Christian Fundin are the guys who make Little Gamers.