EMPIRE! A Community World-Building Tale of People & Discovery

[Elemental]

This is because I've been sending random caravans out in different directions pretty much every turn because it seems as though nobody wants to trade with me and saw Tychris1 do something similar in the first turn and only now realised he'd probably arranged it beforehand.

Ah... I completely missed that for some reason. Alas, I haven't got anything to trade with you at the moment, so your goods are being provided without compensation, and as much as I like free stuff, that's not particularly fair.
I'll have to discuss things with the other Union members before outside trading can be arranged.

Also, be it known that Guilder supports Sympol in this military endeavor. Fair warning for those jumping to move troops south into Tekorva.

The question here being, how do you expect anyone to be able to march south into Tekorva?


Anyways... Propaganda and attempts to goad us into a fight aside... There's really nothing the Union of the North can do about the invasion of Tekorva whether we want to or not. We have the men and resources to defeat Sympolemou, but a continent spanning war would be the result. Suffice it to say, no one wants that. I hope.
Sorry Rain Dragon, you're on your own.
Though I will briefly say that it's unfair to invade Tekorva while allowing a diplomatic solution with the Heartwaste.

[QuintonBeck]

Though I will briefly say that it's unfair to invade Tekorva while allowing a diplomatic solution with the Heartwaste.

All's fair in love and war.

As for the +1, it isn't listed as an advantage to aerial units so I didn't know if it was or not. Still kinda weak.

[SamBurke]

The question here being, how do you expect anyone to be able to march south into Tekorva?


Anyways... Propaganda and attempts to goad us into a fight aside... There's really nothing the Union of the North can do about the invasion of Tekorva whether we want to or not. We have the men and resources to defeat Sympolemou, but a continent spanning war would be the result. Suffice it to say, no one wants that. I hope.
Sorry Rain Dragon, you're on your own.
Though I will briefly say that it's unfair to invade Tekorva while allowing a diplomatic solution with the Heartwaste.

OK, fair point. I thought it was on the south of the continent for some reason. Point still stands.

[Lady Serpentine]

All's fair in love and war.

As for the +1, it isn't listed as an advantage to aerial units so I didn't know if it was or not. Still kinda weak.

Not really? Archers. Ballistae. Etc.. There are plenty of ways to counter aerial units.

Also, the point isn't necessarily accuracy, again. Balance is more important. >.> If you want that much importance on the fluff, then fine, I make flamethrowers and use bloodfire to propel flak cannons.

[Tychris1]

Not really? Archers. Ballistae. Etc.. There are plenty of ways to counter aerial units.

Also, the point isn't necessarily accuracy, again. Balance is more important. >.> If you want that much importance on the fluff, then fine, I make flamethrowers and use bloodfire to propel flak cannons.

By round 20 or so.

Considering you'll need like 2 Curiosity 10 actions at least to make Flamethrowers. 1 to handle Bloodfire, 1 to weaponize it.

[Lady Serpentine]

By round 20 or so.

Considering you'll need like 2 Curiosity 10 actions at least to make Flamethrowers. 1 to handle Bloodfire, 1 to weaponize it.

My point. Fluffwise? No reason not to. Balancewise, it's silly. Which is analogous to aerial units autowiping land forces, as was argued for earlier.

Also, sorry if I seem snippy. Almost broke my toe just after my last post, so yeah. Not in a good mood.

[Morph Bark]

I like the general look of the new rules, here's my input.

Aerial units- As is, they seem completely unnecessary. They can attack land units, land units can attack them back. So...they're just the same thing as land units? It may be OP but flight beats standing around, if you have aerial units they'll probably decimate land units without having to worry about any meaningful counterattack (unless they're underground). Is it lame and kinda broken? Yes, but having them act the exact same as land units is ultimately pointless. No need to include a mechanic if it's no different than another mechanic, might as well just make it fluff and call em land units just the same or change how they interact.

Are these rules applying this round or next round? Obviously they'd normally apply the next round but this seems like more of an overhaul than a simple rule addition so I want to know if that's still the case.

Aerial units were put in so that later down the line, when there will be greater distinction between them and land units, we won't have to go back and check what units might count as aerial units. We're thinking ahead. However, I may put in that aerial units allow you to cross countries that otherwise wouldn't allow you to, if they don't have aerial units, as well as crossing seas. I'd have to work on wording some, but considering nobody is yet using aerial units to attack anyone who isn't a neighbour, this is not a pressing matter.

Most of the things included now (aside from the clear definition between land/naval/aerial units) was already ruled either prior or at the start of this turn, or they are simple additions, so these will apply this turn.

There are a few rules changes that I am considering as well, but those will not apply yet, and I have not posted them yet, as they're still being considered.

Also, boy, boys, Doomkhan says keep your battles lighthearted! No one can enjoy spilling the blood of their enemies when everyone's being grumpy with each other! If the HW weaseled out of found a diplomatic solution to being attacked I doubt the UN and the GC are gonna clash. Though, if they do I'd be happy to participate!

EDIT: Finally fluffed my IC post.

I like that attitude, especially from a third person OOC perspective.

Well, technically I think that if you have aerial units, and your opponents don't, then per the rules I think that aerial advantage gives you a +1. Plus aerial units might be able to attack naval units.

As to the first: nope. If it's not in the rules, it's not in the rules. And if it's not directly stated in the rules, anything done is purely fluff. This is intentional. I decided that one simple rule to stick to would be best: any action can only give a +1 to any Military check. You can raise an army unit, for instance, which gives a +1. You can use a Curiosity 10 action for a new technology, giving a +1 to the armies that you field. However, that technology could be used in multiple armies at once. For instance, you attack one country with an army of 3 units, you'd get a +4 total (plus full or half Military score), while attacking another country with an army of 2 units that also use that technology, giving you a +3 total for that battle and Military check (plus full or half Military score).

As to the second: a good point. I'll think about that. I don't want to go back and add a lot to the new organized rules, at least not until the end of the round, other than what's absolutely necessary for the understanding of the players and the balance of the game.

Also, sorry if I seem snippy. Almost broke my toe just after my last post, so yeah. Not in a good mood.

Yikes. My toes give their sympathies, they've been bumped and bruised and gotten heavy things on them often enough.


Judging from the reactions, I'm guessing the new organization of the rules (and the additions) are clear and understandable, so I'll go ahead and implement them later today. For now, breakfast!

[Silverbit]

...
No matter what propaganda the Sympol spin, I shall aid Tekorva. If I had to march across the very ocean itself, I would. Dwarven honour is unassailable. Not to mention this is only the beginning of the rat's plan. If Tekorva is taken, he gains their resources and land. He has already proved capable of invading countries simply because they're defenceless; if you fear his army now, think how terrifying he will be after he amasses an empire. Razdis will aid Tekorva, and I urge you to do the same. If anyone from the Silver Pact reads this, it's time to go to war.

This cannot be borne.

/angry dwarf.
Ahem. As you may have guessed, I'm defending Tekorva. This may or may not cause a continent-sized war. Tychris, OOC I've got no beef with you, I'm just defending my allies. They would do the same if the situations were reversed. IC, Razdis is apocalyptically annoyed. I'm almost certainly not going to win this, but it shall not be said that Tekorva died alone. We're taking a lot of rats to the underworld with us. That said, Rain Dragon, maybe you should start thinking up some reserve region fluff. Time to edit that action yet again.

[WaylanderX]

Should be easy enough to handle, considering if everything goes according to plan I'll be swinging back with 14,000 men. So how about we cut the passive aggressive BS and get straight to the meat of the matter.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Rain Dragon.

This has everything to do with you (The Union of the North) having beef with the Grand Coalition. Wanna be big boys coming in and boost up yourselves with propaganda for being some kind of "War time heroes" in the face of a much larger and wider alliance that encompasses more territory then yours. Well guess what?

I don't give a rats ass (Pun intended).

You 4 (And I'm not saying this definitively, because I don't know if all of the Union is REALLY going to march all the way over there, see the matter of transportation) can go march yourselves across the continent and the oceans themselves to walk in like big damn heroes, I'll be sitting here waiting to have a pissing contest for years on end.

And if this whole thing blows over and you do finally decide to not go after non aligned countries to make an example for the GC and actually go after them instead? Well I can bet you if I'm still standing that every single Sympol with a chip on his shoulder and a sword in his sheathe will LEAP at the chance to gut Bordeux when they decide to man up and fight their REAL conflicts, instead of sending out high horsed war propaganda in a bid to win support.

How's that for some perspective?

It is impossible to go with 14.000 units, 13.000 is your maximum.

And I'm sorely temped to send 3000 Insect aerial units Tekorva's way, as I was just discussing a trading agreement and alliance with them and thus was rudely interrupted. And I hate being interrupted......*Glareglare* Also, because of this, Kasumor will say NO to any attempt of the Sympol to join the Coalition to stop it at least from becoming a full member.

[Elemental]

And now you're just making us look bad.
Oh well... Might as well raise extra troops just in case...

[Silverbit]

And I'm sorely temped to send 3000 Insect aerial units Tekorva's way…

That'd be really helpful to the defence of Tekorva. If you did that, we could probably rout the stormvermin.

[Lady Serpentine]

Yikes. My toes give their sympathies, they've been bumped and bruised and gotten heavy things on them often enough.

My toes appreciate it! Though in this case, the only heavy thing on it was me...

Does defense require a full action to take effect at all, and if so, is that at least one action from someone is spent defending it, or the player whose country is being invaded has to spend an action in addition to anything else?

[Rain Dragon]

I'll attempt to help in a bit, once I've stopped screaming hysterically.

I am very sorry to bother you all by asking, but I would like help, though understand if nobody can provide it.

There is quite literally nothing I can do due to the rules of the game.

I urge you all to PM each other if you want to defend Tekorva, but it may not even be worth it. Furthermore, the maths tell me that there is a high chance of failure.

But please keep in mind that the Sympol seizing a new region would likely not mess with the current trades and misc. other things. All that happens is you all get to laugh at me and I get to sit on a waiting list.

It really can't be helped.

Though it is in character for the dwarves to assist us, would word reach in time or would your armies be stuck halfway while skaven sack the region?

No matter what propaganda the Sympol spin, I shall aid Tekorva.

Actually, I don't feel so good having a day at work mulling over ideas to find them all invalidated. Furthermore, I don't feel so good coming home to read the propaganda.

Next time, do you think you could take the propaganda to IC PM or somewhere other than the OOC discussion? It is hard to keep positive emotions here when Tychris is spreading 'propaganda' and the only evidence that it's still light hearted is in the IC thread and the post which says 'fishfishfishfishfish' smileyface.

Maybe I shouldn't've joined a game in English when my English is not that great. I go on the waiting list and learn then come back, hopefully not being beaten again.

And I'm sorely temped to send 3000 Insect aerial units Tekorva's way, as I was just discussing a trading agreement and alliance with them and thus was rudely interrupted. And I hate being interrupted......*Glareglare* Also, because of this, Kasumor will say NO to any attempt of the Sympol to join the Coalition to stop it at least from becoming a full member.

It'd be a 50-50 chance. Razdis would tip the scales, but Guilder can also come keeping it more or less 50-50.

I'll catch you cool cats later. I'll be back around Friday or so. I just had a bad day is all.

[avr]

What happened to d20ragon, did he bail on the game?

I sympathise with Rain, but someone was going to playtest the combat rules and it sounds like the rats have prepared well. Though a bunch of those troops must be militia, right?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

What happened to d20ragon, did he bail on the game?

I sympathise with Rain, but someone was going to playtest the combat rules and it sounds like the rats have prepared well. Though a bunch of those troops must be militia, right?

Yeah he dropped....but are we still on for our trade agreement?

[zabbarot]

Actually, I don't feel so good having a day at work mulling over ideas to find them all invalidated. Furthermore, I don't feel so good coming home to read the propaganda.

Next time, do you think you could take the propaganda to IC PM or somewhere other than the OOC discussion? It is hard to keep positive emotions here when Tychris is spreading 'propaganda' and the only evidence that it's still light hearted is in the IC thread and the post which says 'fishfishfishfishfish' smileyface.

Maybe I shouldn't've joined a game in English when my English is not that great. I go on the waiting list and learn then come back, hopefully not being beaten again.

English is my first language and I had no idea that what Tychris posted was supposed to be in character propaganda. It seemed more like he was just a giant laser short of going into a full Bond villain monologue.

@Tychris for the sake of keeping the game friendly could you make a clearler distinction between IC and OOC in the future? What I saw really read more like OOC boasting than IC war propaganda.

[Arutha]

im helping rain dragon. sorry ty, but I think you now have enough GC nations to lock you out this turn. or you could find a difrent target. I have bigger things going on with Tekorva, and your are not quite worth a rats a.... well, you get it. point is, do you want fight four nations, including one that does not have a problem with total war, if it comes to that.

[Morph Bark]

My toes appreciate it! Though in this case, the only heavy thing on it was me...

Does defense require a full action to take effect at all, and if so, is that at least one action from someone is spent defending it, or the player whose country is being invaded has to spend an action in addition to anything else?

Next time, do you think you could take the propaganda to IC PM or somewhere other than the OOC discussion? It is hard to keep positive emotions here when Tychris is spreading 'propaganda' and the only evidence that it's still light hearted is in the IC thread and the post which says 'fishfishfishfishfish' smileyface.

That is probably a good idea for those who wish to throw around IC talk in the OOC thread. I advise you all to clearly mark what is IC talk, because in here it will be assumed that unless otherwise noted everything is OOC talk.

Maybe I shouldn't've joined a game in English when my English is not that great.

Please don't think that way. I know for a fact that over a quarter of the players don't have English as their first language and that some players have dyslexia. If there is any problem with language understanding for anyone, I'm fully willing to help work out any kinks if I can, and no doubt several players for whom English is their first language feel the same.

I'll catch you cool cats later. I'll be back around Friday or so. I just had a bad day is all.

May your week grow sunnier than it was today. Erm, or at least better, I don't know if sunny weather may be desirable in the part of the world you live.

Either way, catch you on Friday.

Though a bunch of those troops must be militia, right?

Militia cannot attack.

[Tychris1]

In light of Waylander's vested interest in Tekorva I have altered my IC post with a new set of actions. I will try to keep a clearer distinction between what is IC or OOC, though my previous statements were not meant to be thought of in an IC light, they were meant to be me being straightforward and saying "This is. Dome deal, I don't see why everyone is jumping the gun to interfere with it" and me being generally frustrated from me rupturing (And thus making it useless until I can get it fixed) my scolioses brace and then having to bounce from The HW to Tek and now back home like a ping pong ball.

I apologize, Rain Dragon, if I sounded harsh or mean spirited.

[QuintonBeck]

@C'Nor: In regards to aerial units, I understand the point is balance, which is why I was saying there's no need for them to be separate unit type when they acted the exact same as land unit types. My proposal was up their power or alter them in some way to make them different or lump them into land units and have it be simply a fluff based distinction. Sorry if I came off as trying to break the game, that wasn't my intention, I was just trying to point out an oddity I had noted. However, Morph's explanation that it's for later instituting of rules down the line is cool by me and answers my concern with the fact that they will be differentiated from land units at some point down the line.

@Morph: So the militia thing is enacted this round? I know it was mentioned before this round started but only vaguely so that was the rule I was more interested in finding out whether was to be implemented this round or not. After all, it really affects what exactly I do for this round.

@The Tekorva Stuff: I think everyone is really enjoying and invested in this game and that makes tensions high and actions in game really have a hard impact. Let's all step back and take a deep breath and remember it's a forum game. Even if you lose your country you can still come back into the game with more knowledge and if you're trying to take someone's land there is no need to rub their face in it or be a sore winner.

We all have stuff outside the game that may not be going well but let's try and foster a friendly air of camaraderie within this game, after all, every game requires good sportsmanship. Let's not forget that. Treat everyone well and give people the benefit of the doubt and remember to have fun and try and make sure everyone else is having a good time too.

Alright, enough sappy stuff, back to being the merciless Doomkhan!

[zabbarot]

This is turning out a bit like Europa Universalis in a way. You can't just go conquering, first you have to make friends and justify having a claim on that land, so everyone doesn't immediately hate you when you take it.

Otherwise make a huge army and decide that you really don't care if they hate you, then do it anyways and hope for the best. After all if you take it you can make an even bigger army and keep on punching.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Any in character speak should mostly be either left to an in character thread, or in the actions thread, or in PM's if you so choose. Try and keep IC speaking, or even meta-in-character speaking to a minimum here, as this is more place of discussion. Even if so, I'd say spoilering it would be the way to go. If you folks would like to set up a IC thread to go adjacent to the actions thread, by all means. Just make sure to link it here so Morph and the Co-GM's know about it.

Also, I'm seeing a lot of anti war things going on, and if that is your regions goal, great. But remember that Conquest is a big part of the game, and being police for the entire world is going to be a difficult thing. I'm not saying that either of these potential wars was good, or that them not actually happening are bad. All I'm saying is, I ask players try not to take actions against their countries as personal attacks or insults. Just as I ask players attacking to not to treat their attacks as something to be going about either.

This is a game of 26+ players cramped into a small region. There's going to be war. It's how the game is going to advance (unless you are diplomatic, that is). Try to remember that this is a game, and there are going to be plenty of ways of remaining in, if you choose. I know I'll be sad if Lyradis is attacked and destoryed, so I understand being upset, or for people to rally for the underdogs. All I'm saying is, try not to take it personally.

So, with that said - Think of these nations as characters in a very deadly game of D & D. With that, I recommend having back up characters, or 10,000 GP worth of Diamonds...and watch out for them murder hobos!

Have fun!

Edit: That said, it seems like a lot of people want to actually get through their first ruler, to at least play their country and activate some plans. Do we want to set up a 'cease fire' until nations gain their second ruler? I know some nations have already gotten there, but that gives nations that are just starting up a chance to get started before getting ripped to shreds.

[Aeternus]

I would like to choose Region 24! Soooooo excited 8D

So since I will be entering the game late, do I have a small grace period wherein I can have a chance to construct defenses before getting attacked? Or do I just hope no one picks on the smaller new nation?

[Silverbit]

@QuintonBeck, zabbarot and Wombat: I agree with all of your collective points .

Aeternus: Luckily for you, everyone around you seems quite peaceful.

[zabbarot]

Also, I'm seeing a lot of anti war things going on, and if that is your regions goal, great. But remember that Conquest is a big part of the game, and being police for the entire world is going to be a difficult thing. I'm not saying that either of these potential wars was good, or that them not actually happening are bad. All I'm saying is, I ask players try not to take actions against their countries as personal attacks or insults. Just as I ask players attacking to not to treat their attacks as something to be going about either.

This is a game of 26+ players cramped into a small region. There's going to be war. It's how the game is going to advance (unless you are diplomatic, that is). Try to remember that this is a game, and there are going to be plenty of ways of remaining in, if you choose. I know I'll be sad if Lyradis is attacked and destoryed, so I understand being upset, or for people to rally for the underdogs. All I'm saying is, try not to take it personally.

So, with that said - Think of these nations as characters in a very deadly game of D & D. With that, I recommend having back up characters, or 10,000 GP worth of Diamonds...and watch out for them murder hobos!

Have fun!

Edit: That said, it seems like a lot of people want to actually get through their first ruler, to at least play their country and activate some plans. Do we want to set up a 'cease fire' until nations gain their second ruler? I know some nations have already gotten there, but that gives nations that are just starting up a chance to get started before getting ripped to shreds.

I feel like the general peer pressure not to go around conquering is realistic IC, I mean it's not really the best idea to turn a blind eye to Genghis Khan, who knows how far he'll get if you let him get momentum

That said a lot of our responses are metagamey. Realistically we shouldn't know about an attack until it has happened unless we have spies set up. I realize this is the internet, but I doubt Duke Bloodfang wrote a letter to every ruler in the known world to inform them of his plan to attack Terkova. So we should either try harder to avoid metagaming or it won't be long until Attacks become Secret Actions and Declarations of War are PMs.

[Tychris1]

Yeah, I was just about to ask if we can do Secret Action attacks or not. Seems to be the general direction that peer pressure is leaning towards. I mean it works technically, but logically I'm not sure how you covertly do a big battle?

[zabbarot]

Yeah, I was just about to ask if we can do Secret Action attacks or not. Seems to be the general direction that peer pressure is leaning towards. I mean it works technically, but logically I'm not sure how you covertly do a big battle?

Roll Move Silently

[Arutha]

@sappy stuff, I think that this is a good thing

@wombat: my stats are off. They should be 3 diplo, 5 faith, and 5 cur, but you did get the other two right.

@genral anti- war: war needs a reason other than for the lolz. Even religion works, but that opens it's own can of worms. Good luck finding justification.

@secret attacks: gurrilla warfare and covert ops. Sounds good.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I said this above, but I think I'll post it as it's own:


It seems like a lot of people want to actually get through their first ruler, to at least play their country and activate some of the plans they have for it, especially from the fluff they set up in their OP.

Do we want to set up a 'cease fire' until nations gain their second ruler? I know some nations have already gotten there, but that gives nations that are just starting up a chance to get started before getting ripped to shreds. So nations can still step down, and what not, but once they do they're game. Also, this means those nations cannot attack other countries until they have a new ruler step in, or they drop their cease fire with the current ruler at least a turn before they intend to attack.

Thoughts?

[Arutha]

I like it, as we don't want to scare off new people by killing them turn, or even ruler one. I give it my vote, with the exception of skirmishing, and other non-takeover attacks. Cause those are fine.