Steven Universe

[Scowling Dragon]

At what cost? Cost him WHAT exactly. Things just worked out as they do, and gave Lars a boost. Which to be fair is a pretty nice thing.

An example of Stevens lack of conviction (Or even insensitivity) is the following:

At the end of Warp Tour, the Gems are sent in a frenzy when Peridot arrives. They panic, and freak out. But of course Steven doesn't ask them WHY they are so freaked out. Or wait until they are calmed to ask them. And find out in detail. And then alleviate their worries because thats what people who care do. Because if he did he wouldn't do the stupid thing he does later:

The next time Peridot shows up, and knowing that the other Gems want him to hide, and are distressed by her arrival once more, he instead lunges right up and starts talking with her not even cautiously. Without a clue in the universe like he usually does. Despite the previous Gem almost destroying the whole world and almost killing his friends (A little bit more important then "She was just sad). And then he STILL doesn't ask them why they are worried. And then STILL wonders if the Gems could just all be nice.

Only truly, stupid, ignorant people do that. Even for a child. Only when he is inside a car with his dad, fleeing from the city, does he THEN, FINALY, after the Gems worries are made over-abundantly clear does he care to ask.

And my point isn't that there where or weren't repercussions for Peridot, my point was that unless people around him actively YELL their sorrow, Steven is oblivious and ignorant. So even from a character perspective, Steven is oblivious to others.

Which is fine for a young kids TV show, but it shows it to be pretty base and stupid. I would be asking the exact same questions as a kid: "Why isn't Steven asking questions? Why doesn't he just ask what they are worried about!"

[eggynack]

At what cost? Cost him WHAT exactly. Things just worked out as they do, and gave Lars a boost. Which to be fair is a pretty nice thing.

You mean at the end of Lars and the Cool Kids? He was elevating Lars at the cost of not having them perceive him in an even more positive light. He shifted the credit from himself over to the guy that just insulted his dead mom five minutes ago, and that's some serious maturity right there.

An example of Stevens lack of conviction (Or even insensitivity) is the following:

At the end of Warp Tour, the Gems are sent in a frenzy when Peridot arrives. They panic, and freak out. But of course Steven doesn't ask them WHY they are so freaked out. Or wait until they are calmed to ask them. And find out in detail. And then alleviate their worries because thats what people who care do. Because if he did he wouldn't do the stupid thing he does later:

I wouldn't call that a lack of conviction so much as the episode just kinda ending right then. And as an example of conviction, consider the earlier parts of that episode where he stands by his belief that he saw something, standing up to his super powered parental figures in the process.

The next time Peridot shows up, and knowing that the other Gems want him to hide, and are distressed by her arrival once more, he instead lunges right up and starts talking with her not even cautiously. Without a clue in the universe like he usually does. Despite the previous Gem almost destroying the whole world and almost killing his friends (A little bit more important then "She was just sad). And then he STILL doesn't ask them why they are worried. And then STILL wonders if the Gems could just all be nice.

See, you call that not-conviction, but I call that super-conviction. Even when the situation was arrayed against him, he still stood by his ideals of connecting with people, even when it might cost him something. As for asking questions, seriously, what would he ask? He knows for a fact that the gems basically know nothing about the scope of this enemy, or even their intent, because that's what they've been saying all episode. He heard the same stuff about Peridot that they did.

Only truly, stupid, ignorant people do that. Even for a child. Only when he is inside a car with his dad, fleeing from the city, does he THEN, FINALY, after the Gems worries are made over-abundantly clear does he care to ask.

Y'know, personally, I get the impression that that scene was less a lack of knowledge, and more a lack of context. He knew a pretty good amount of stuff about the gems at that point, but he just didn't have a feel for the devastation that had occurred, because he wasn't there. Amethyst doesn't seem to have a good conception of it either, really.

Which is fine for a young kids TV show, but it shows it to be pretty base and stupid. I would be asking the exact same questions as a kid: "Why isn't Steven asking questions? Why doesn't he just ask what they are worried about!"

He actually did, an episode before Greg told him stuff, in Political Power. To my mind, most of the times he receives an explanation of something, it seems to be a pretty complete explanation lacking in massive holes. Even if he did ask more questions, he'd be very unlikely to receive in depth answers prior to Political Power and The Return.

[LaZodiac]

Yup Never anything positive. I should have made my posts a series of different colors, and maybe added interactive elements to them.

I should be dancing and singing praises to the JOYS of the HOLY Steven Universe. The threads speed up when we actually discuss things. I tended to post positive stuff when nobody else even did. Even debate its merit.

But truly I am a blasphemer against the SU! I will make sure to flagellate myself.

As for Lars is a case of Steven being pretty ignorant to what others think. Lars kinda gets dragged along because other people like Steven, but Steven himself never does anything to aid Lars directly. It all just folds together conveniently.

Wasn't around in the thread when you said those, sorry.

Whoa, could you take a breath and stop overreacting for like two seconds? You're acting like a child.

[Scowling Dragon]

Im just frustrated because Im feeling whack-a-mole with a worm. Its a case with any fandom where ___ is perfect. Or at least has no faults. Its everything and nothing at once, and even if it does have a flaw, or heck just an element I dislike, it must be because Im just so negative all the time because Im just a grouch and so my opinion doesn't matter.

It feels like Im taking crazy pills, where I have to explain every basic minutia of basic, writing details, or basic details. Even on a fundamental just baby steps basic level. And its difficult enough doing so without people assuming that I just don't care, or I just want the exact same opinion as mine.

It feels like Im Picard being told there are more/less then four lights!

Steven is very mature for his age. Unless he isn't. Then what did you expect for a 10 year old?

Steven is a great guy and sensitive to people around him. Unless isn't. Then its not him being stupid. Its him being very passionate about connecting with people. Despite causing suffering to the people that care about him most. But still not being an ignorant unaware buffoon. Its a good thing, and not a personal flaw. Best of both worlds.

And the character relationships are so realistic and deep, and if they are not then its because of the running time. But they are still deep at the same time.

See that way Steven is perfect just the way he is, and if he isn't well he learn't this time didn't he? And if he didn't then don't expect it too happen so fast, or its just a 10 minute show/ show for kids so what did you expect?

I don't as much feel like Im arguing with an idea, as with an idea that always changes its goalposts. Its swordfighting a fart!

[eggynack]

Im just frustrated because Im feeling whack-a-mole with a worm. Its a case with any fandom where ___ is perfect. Or at least has no faults. Its everything and nothing at once, and even if it does have a flaw, or heck just an element I dislike, it must be because Im just so negative all the time because Im just a grouch and so my opinion doesn't matter.

I'm pretty sure I constructed real and valid criticisms of just about all of the points you raised, rather than making use of some odd ad hominem claim. Though to be fair, your rhetoric could be made a lot smoother. You'd likely get a better response if you ditched some of the all caps, underlining, and big word stuff, as well as the implied insults. A good argument speaks for itself, and doesn't require the internet equivalent of yelling.

It feels like Im taking crazy pills, where I have to explain every basic minutia of basic, writing details, or basic details. Even on a fundamental just baby steps basic level. And its difficult enough doing so without people assuming that I just don't care, or I just want the exact same opinion as mine.

It feels like Im Picard being told there are more/less then four lights!

Your claim just doesn't seem all that convincing to me. You say Steven isn't passionate, despite the fact that he puts everything he has into everything he does, and you say the show doesn't allow for growth, and I point out tons of places where there's growth, and you say stuff about particular episodes that doesn't really hold with what I consider the message of those episodes to any extent.

Steven is very mature for his age. Unless he isn't. Then what did you expect for a 10 year old?

Those things aren't contradictory. He's mature for his age, at least sometimes, but his age isn't all that mature.

Steven is a great guy and sensitive to people around him. Unless isn't. Then its not him being stupid. Its him being very passionate about connecting with people. Despite causing suffering to the people that care about him most. But still not being an ignorant unaware buffoon. Its a good thing, and not a personal flaw. Best of both worlds.

I don't think his actions in Marble Madness were insensitive. He chose a course of action that he thought made sense, and he went with it. He was more callous to thoughts than to emotions, and he values the former far more than the latter.

And the character relationships are so realistic and deep, and if they are not then its because of the running time. But they are still deep at the same time.

I do indeed think that most of the relationships presented in the show are rather deep, and where they aren't, I often become invested in them anyway just because the characters themselves are so invested, acting supremely in character within that role. The show does more with the time it spends on things than most, pulling off really solid levels of emotional resonance density.

See that way Steven is perfect just the way he is, and if he isn't well he learn't this time didn't he? And if he didn't then don't expect it too happen so fast, or its just a 10 minute show/ show for kids so what did you expect?

As Rebecca Sugar himself has said, Steven isn't perfect. He's great. I enjoy the character for his flaws, not in spite of them, because people are flawed. Having a show about hyper-efficient and pragmatic characters who always take actions at or above the level of action you would have them take can be fun, but I certainly wouldn't want that to be all shows. Don't think I've ever really hidden behind either length or it being a kid's show, nor would I, especially the kid's show thing.

I don't as much feel like Im arguing with an idea, as with an idea that always changes its goalposts. Its swordfighting a fart!

I don't really see all that much shifting of goalposts in my claims. Its a relatively solid argument, albeit one that's picked up a lot of breadth over time, and I don't think you've addressed all that much of it.

[Scowling Dragon]

But the more I try to make a point, the more you dismiss it.

OK. Il try to go this baby step by baby step, one at a time instead of many at once. I will not waver and divert and I will push a point.

Point, Steven lacks conviction, because the show as a whole is not about conviction.

Il define conviction one last time:

Conviction is passion and conviction is universal. You don't cop out on conviction. If you are passionate there are no excuses. Bringing up one, points to the lack of it.

You insist that Stevens conviction is both ongoing, and Universal. Conviction is initiative, and means doing things without a prompt.

A: Your example of that is giving over social status to Lars instead of himself.

My counterpoint would be that Steven has not been established to care for what people think of him. This is not a goal that he has been striving to obtain, and thus handing over something that is no value to him does not prove anything. It does show a sensitivity to what Lars wants, but it not something he does ongingly. Steven is not established to have wanted the Cool Kids Social standing, he also already has it right off the bat.

B: When Steven Talks to Peridot thats his conviction.

I agree on that with that 1 case. However, the deal is that its one case. Because it is 1 case, it just comes off as showing off Stevens tendency to be oblivious to the things around him, not the fact that he is passionate about making connections. It still may be presented as such evidence, however as it is a 1 off case. Because I do not believe that your other examples match conviction, this is about his obliviousness.

C:

He brings Sadie and Lars to the island to mend their relationship. However he is not seen trying to do anything with them after their relationship takes a turn for the worse at the end. In fact he is shown to be oblivious as always. That is not conviction. Thats evidence to show obliviousness. Which is just more evidence for him being oblivious and insensitive. See B.

D:

Horror Club has events Lars being dragged INTO events by circumstance because Sadie comes with. He does indeed end up rescuing Lars, but its more plot related, and not character based. And overall the episode was incredibly sloppily written. As much of a Jerk Lars is, Reynaldo did try to kill him, and they just brush it off like its nothing.

There is instead more evidence for him not showing conviction:

The Gems. There are piles of corrupted gems in the attic. And he knows that they are corrupted gems in trouble and he can make connections with them at his own leisure. But he doesn't.

Everything Steven does is in a heat of the matter process, almost never caused by his own initiative, and if it is, he never carries it through to the end. He never does anything in-between episodes that is not TV videogames, or books. Which is not conviction. Whenever Steven is faced with longterm opposition of hardship he gives up. In fact thats the Joke.

The lack of overarching narrative, and lack of much carryover of urgency or feelings from episode to episode (Except in rare cases), means that Steven is not written to have a chance to show conviction, because the show is not about conviction and so Steven isn't passionate.

[eggynack]

Il define conviction one last time:

Conviction is passion and conviction is universal. You don't cop out on conviction. If you are passionate there are no excuses. Bringing up one, points to the lack of it.

You insist that Stevens conviction is both ongoing, and Universal. Conviction is initiative, and means doing things without a prompt.

I don't think I really insisted that his conviction is ongoing and universal, and the core of that is the fact that I think you're defining conviction improperly. The formal definition of conviction is, "a fixed or firm belief." It can be associated with passion, but I don't think it's definitely a necessary or sufficient condition for passion. I think Steven does have conviction about a couple of things, but he's young, so his belief systems are a bit more on the fluid side of things. He has significantly more passion than conviction, by my estimation, and I think that's as it should be.

A: Your example of that is giving over social status to Lars instead of himself.

My counterpoint would be that Steven has not been established to care for what people think of him. This is not a goal that he has been striving to obtain, and thus handing over something that is no value to him does not prove anything. It does show a sensitivity to what Lars wants, but it not something he does ongingly. Steven is not established to have wanted the Cool Kids Social standing, he also already has it right off the bat.

Despite that, he was still handing it to someone who had done him wrong pretty recently. That takes a rather firm belief that the person in question is worth it, even though he hadn't really taken a substantial turn towards niceness in the intervening few minutes.

B: When Steven Talks to Peridot thats his conviction.

I agree on that with that 1 case. However, the deal is that its one case. Because it is 1 case, it just comes off as showing off Stevens tendency to be oblivious to the things around him, not the fact that he is passionate about making connections. It still may be presented as such evidence, however as it is a 1 off case. Because I do not believe that your other examples match conviction, this is about his obliviousness.

I don't think think it was obliviousness so much as it was trying to apply his knowledge seeking logic in the wrong place. He had a decent though imperfect idea of what Peridot was trying to accomplish, and the gems had the same lack of information. As was seen in that episode, the gems' reaction to a lack of knowledge is to stand back and maybe beat stuff up if it comes down to that, while Steven's reaction is to try to seek out knowledge and try to see what he can do with his charms and optimistic outlook. It turned out to be the wrong decision (though in retrospect, knowing everything we know now of what happened, it probably actually had a positive result in the long run), but I don't think it was necessarily going to be the wrong decision from his perspective until it went bad.

C:

He brings Sadie and Lars to the island to mend their relationship. However he is not seen trying to do anything with them after their relationship takes a turn for the worse at the end. In fact he is shown to be oblivious as always. That is not conviction. Thats evidence to show obliviousness. Which is just more evidence for him being oblivious and insensitive. See B.

It seemed a lot like he just had bigger concerns than their relationship at that point in the episode, what with the gem monster.

D:

Horror Club has events Lars being dragged INTO events by circumstance because Sadie comes with. He does indeed end up rescuing Lars, but its more plot related, and not character based. And overall the episode was incredibly sloppily written. As much of a Jerk Lars is, Reynaldo did try to kill him, and they just brush it off like its nothing.

Not my favorite episode either, I gotta say. Murderous Ronaldo isn't all that out of character though, weirdly enough. I could easily imagine someone on the outside walking into one of these situations, and saying, "Holy crap, that guy just tried to murder you while saying a bunch of crazy stuff," and then someone in the show says, "Oh, yeah, that's just Ronaldo. He pulls stuff like that sometimes. You just gotta take it in stride." Hence my already claimed dislike of Beach City Horror Club. The fellow just doesn't resonate with me all that much, though I'm hopeful he'll pick up in the two parter.

The Gems. There are piles of corrupted gems in the attic. And he knows that they are corrupted gems in trouble and he can make connections with them at his own leisure. But he doesn't.

It's pretty unclear how he's supposed to do this stuff. His success with Lapis struck me as at least partially serendipity, as she reached out to him. He interacts with gem stuff occasionally, but I get the impression that he's usually kept away from it because it's incredibly dangerous and/or powerful, even in careful hands. Like, the gems rarely use this stuff, and it's possibly less because they forgot they had it, and more because they don't want to mess with power like that. In the meantime though, there's a massive black line between trying to connect with the gems and actually connecting with them, and it seems likely that he's usually going to be stuck in the first category for awhile yet, especially given Rose's failure to save gems.

Everything Steven does is in a heat of the matter process, almost never caused by his own initiative, and if it is, he never carries it through to the end. He never does anything in-between episodes that is not TV videogames, or books.

I'm pretty doubtful that we have perfect knowledge of what Steven is doing off screen, or even decent knowledge. For all we know, he's going on less interesting or eventful gem missions.

Which is not conviction. Whenever Steven is faced with longterm opposition of hardship he gives up. In fact thats the Joke.

I don't think you've even listed much in the way of situations where he just gives up in the face of hardship. Yeah, I guess he doesn't spend whole episodes chatting with usually inanimate objects, but he's usually the guy running towards danger or problems, no matter what they are. He doesn't typically go massively out of his way to find problems to solve, but there's rarely if ever situation where he refused to solve a problem he was presented with.

The lack of overarching narrative, and lack of much carryover of urgency or feelings from episode to episode (Except in rare cases), means that Steven is not written to have a chance to show conviction, because the show is not about conviction and so Steven isn't passionate.

One problem I think you're having here is that the show isn't massively serialized, which gives you the impression that Steven drops stuff when it's really just the show not continuing on from wherever an episode ended. Steven Universe is somewhat serialized, such that there's a vague form of continuity paired with a good amount of developments sticking around, but this isn't Breaking Bad. But, I've gotta say, I'm not entirely sure what the problem with that is. Serialized shows are great, but relatively episodic shows can be great too, and I personally do tend to like this form of middle ground that feels like it was really perfected in Adventure Time. Episodes are just about always self contained, but things that came before fundamentally matter. That doesn't mean Steven isn't passionate, because he puts his heart into the things he does on a constant basis. It just means that the structure of the show is different than you'd like.

[Scowling Dragon]

You are making excuses. Passion does not excuse itself. And you make excuses for Steven. Which shows he is not as passionate as you claim. People who don't know how try to find out. Which Steven doesn't.

I have the exact same problems with adventure time because of the lack of development. The Ice King can never become friends with Finn for Long, and he will never be cured because thats the end of the series, so all and any trials and tribulations between them are just wasting time. And so any attempts at building a relationship come off fake.

The only character and episode in Steven universe that in my opinion shows development: Is maximum capacity with Greg.

Greg starts changing who he is. In a positive way. He stops dwelling on the past, and wants to focus on his future with his son, spurned on by a personal drive of self betterment. Amathyst on the other hand falls back into her bad habits, and still revels in her misery. Its a CHANGE. We see that even next time he makes an effort to impress Connie's Parents, and overall sense of Concern for Steven.

I understand he can't fully actualize his concern for Steven because that would change the Status qou, but even within the choking parameters of Steven Universe Greg manages to start changing for the better.

And I like Serialized shows, but with Steven Universe the Cutoffs and distances means that we don't see ramifications.

Like you mentioned. Where we should have shown Steven ASKING the Gems about why they are so worried after Warp Tour, instead everything goes back to relaxed party mode. He doesn't ask the questions, he does more stupid stuff, and realistically (Though some dues ex Machina will be busted out to be sure), has doomed the Earth and everybody on it.

And you just don't seem to remember things properly to be honest.

Lars and Sadie are mad and upset at each other, and limb away from the island in worse condition then they came. But Steven just says "Lets do that again" not in a sardonic "I need to fix this" manner but in the classic "Yay that was a rollercoaster ride" sort of way.

Off Screen is off screen. Steven Universe with Steven Fry and He-man Fights intergalactic , monsters offscreen, and Garnet decided to retire and become a Yoga instructor. Offscreen. We do however see what Steven does before the start of adventures. Nothing much and just sit and play videogames.

And you hit the nail on the head. He does not go looking for problems to solve. That would be like saying an artist can be passionate, just not looking for Art to create, or a cop who is passionate about his job who doesn't look for crimes to solve. Or at least focus on the very real problems that he could be more aware about. Again, he doesn't ask questions.

I guess we have different vocabularies. Because "Passion" means different things to me then to you. I have come to believe that you are just trolling me and are deliberately wasting my time by forcing to think ahead for every logical process for you. If he doesn't know how to communicate with them, then he could pester pearl, or start learning Gem physiology. You can always DO something, but Steven isn't even shown TRYING to communicate with the Gems anymore. Trying being the Keyword.

For example you consider "Trying to find a cure for the corrupt gems", "Talking to rocks". Deliberately obfuscating. Its like calling developing a medication "Playing around with chemicals".

All this information, and at the end of the day: Steven Universe rarely asks questions. And NEVER followup questions. Which is a sign of bad writing in order to extend simple problems into huge issues.

Asking questions is the bare minimum that Steven can do. And he never does it. Because he doesn't care.

So many weird gem stuff could, and DOES end up hurting his friends and loved ones, but he never follows up on it.

He DOESN'T seek knowledge. And if you view Peridot as him """Seeking Knowledge""", then that would be out of character for him.

[Fawkes]

You ARE playing whack-a-mole. Every time you make a complaint, Eggynack explains why it isn't a problem to him (and by extension the rest of the fandom) and you keep ignoring his (our) opinion and writing him (us) off as stupid people who like stupid things. Stop it.

[eggynack]

You are making excuses. Passion does not excuse itself. And you make excuses for Steven. Which shows he is not as passionate as you claim. People who don't know how try to find out. Which Steven doesn't.

I'm not really sure what you're even saying here. Again, you're treating passion and conviction as synonyms. They aren't synonyms. Steven has only occasional conviction, but he tends to have a lot of passion. He's just not currently passionate about this thing you want him to be passionate about.

I have the exact same problems with adventure time because of the lack of development. The Ice King can never become friends with Finn for Long, and he will never be cured because thats the end of the series, so all and any trials and tribulations between them are just wasting time. And so any attempts at building a relationship come off fake.

I don't really see how you figure. I'm pretty sure Finn and the Ice King have been friends for awhile now. Yeah, the Ice King has an occasional lapse into jerkitry, but Finn's baseline response to the guy is to say that he's too cool to go on a road trip with him to Jake, and then immediately run outside to join him on his road trip. There wasn't even really a strong negative element in that interaction. Finn's baseline response to Ice King is to play some basket ball with him. This claim is just totally inaccurate. The cure thing is more likely to not happen, but that wasn't even on the table until really recently.

The only character and episode in Steven universe that in my opinion shows development: Is maximum capacity with Greg.

Greg starts changing who he is. In a positive way. He stops dwelling on the past, and wants to focus on his future with his son, spurned on by a personal drive of self betterment. Amathyst on the other hand falls back into her bad habits, and still revels in her misery. Its a CHANGE. We see that even next time he makes an effort to impress Connie's Parents, and overall sense of Concern for Steven.

I understand he can't fully actualize his concern for Steven because that would change the Status qou, but even within the choking parameters of Steven Universe Greg manages to start changing for the better.

But Amethyst does change in that episode, choosing to accept Greg's past relationship with Rose through the medium of the fixed picture. Beyond that, I do have a bunch of examples I've given of developments.

Like you mentioned. Where we should have shown Steven ASKING the Gems about why they are so worried after Warp Tour, instead everything goes back to relaxed party mode. He doesn't ask the questions, he does more stupid stuff, and realistically (Though some dues ex Machina will be busted out to be sure), has doomed the Earth and everybody on it.

He did ask. To quote Steven, "Was that another gem? Where did she come from? What was she trying to do?" Those look a lot like questions to me.

And you just don't seem to remember things properly to be honest.

Lars and Sadie are mad and upset at each other, and limb away from the island in worse condition then they came. But Steven just says "Lets do that again" not in a sardonic "I need to fix this" manner but in the classic "Yay that was a rollercoaster ride" sort of way.

But Steven did have a lot of fun, and Sadie seemed to enjoy it too, albeit to the extent that she did crazy relationship breaking stuff. Beyond that though, I'm not entirely sure what you expected Steven to do. That whole situation was insane, and the episode ended pretty quickly after things came to a head. More to the point, I doubt that Steven fully comprehended all the nuances of what went down like we did.

Off Screen is off screen. Steven Universe with Steven Fry and He-man Fights intergalactic , monsters offscreen, and Garnet decided to retire and become a Yoga instructor. Offscreen. We do however see what Steven does before the start of adventures. Nothing much and just sit and play videogames.

Which is why I don't make assertions about what he does off screen. Which is what you did, for whatever reason.

And you hit the nail on the head. He does not go looking for problems to solve. That would be like saying an artist can be passionate, just not looking for Art to create, or a cop who is passionate about his job who doesn't look for crimes to solve. Or at least focus on the very real problems that he could be more aware about. Again, he doesn't ask questions.

Looking for problems is a pretty weird thing to do, I think, especially when so much about the problem you want him to solve has been hidden away from him. The gems actively choose to hide this stuff away from him, as is obvious based on the scene in winter forecast. As is though, Steven has passion, but it's young passion, and so relatively amorphous and undirected. One day his passion might drive him to make a perfect breakfast, and another it might cause him to set up a watermelon selling stand, and on a third it might cause him to promote his dad's guitar tutoring. He has all the passion in the world. What he currently lacks is direction.

I guess we have different vocabularies. Because "Passion" means different things to me then to you. I have come to believe that you are just trolling me and are deliberately wasting my time by forcing to think ahead for every logical process for you. If he doesn't know how to communicate with them, then he could pester pearl, or start learning Gem physiology. You can always DO something, but Steven isn't even shown TRYING to communicate with the Gems anymore. Trying being the Keyword.

But that's not his passion right now. He likes forming connections with people, not with gem artifacts that seem to be largely hidden away from him. You just decided to extend the passion I asserted to another thing that's mostly unrelated.

For example you consider "Trying to find a cure for the corrupt gems", "Talking to rocks". Deliberately obfuscating. Its like calling developing a medication "Playing around with chemicals".

Steven just doesn't have sufficient resources to make a serious go at dealing with this stuff, such that it would indeed turn out a lot like talking to rocks. It's like calling a kid toying around with a chemistry set, "Developing a medication."

All this information, and at the end of the day: Steven Universe rarely asks questions. And NEVER followup questions. Which is a sign of bad writing in order to extend simple problems into huge issues.

Asking questions is the bare minimum that Steven can do. And he never does it. Because he doesn't care.

So many weird gem stuff could, and DOES end up hurting his friends and loved ones, but he never follows up on it.

He DOESN'T seek knowledge. And if you view Peridot as him """Seeking Knowledge""", then that would be out of character for him.

I don't think it's bad writing. Steven's tendency is to run into problems without necessarily fully understanding them. He's a bit of a reckless person, driven far more by emotion than thought, and he learns better from directly experiencing the world than from folks saying stuff about it. Some of that is flaws, but Steven's a flawed guy. Don't think anyone would argue against that.

[Jayngfet]

Eggynack explains why it isn't a problem to him (and by extension the rest of the fandom)

He doesn't speak for the group and neither do you. I don't recall anyone electing either of you high fandom lord.

[eggynack]

He doesn't speak for the group and neither do you. I don't recall anyone electing either of you high fandom lord.

Look, just cause you didn't participate in the electoral process related to Steven Universe fandom powers, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. You miss one day, you miss everything.

[Jayngfet]

Look, just cause you didn't participate in the electoral process related to Steven Universe fandom powers, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. You miss one day, you miss everything.

All jokes aside, I resent the idea that a fandom is some kind of stepfordian entity where nobody can ever have an issue and nothing can ever be wrong. I didn't have any particular malice to you for not liking Say Uncle, but the idea that I'm taking any issue at all with the shows characterization is apparently an unforgivable sin, despite the fact that the events directly shown back up what I say more than yours(which should be obvious from the fact that I'm the one actually referencing what the characters say and do).

[eggynack]

All jokes aside, I resent the idea that a fandom is some kind of stepfordian entity where nobody can ever have an issue and nothing can ever be wrong. I didn't have any particular malice to you for not liking Say Uncle, but the idea that I'm taking any issue at all with the shows characterization is apparently an unforgivable sin, despite the fact that the events directly shown back up what I say more than yours(which should be obvious from the fact that I'm the one actually referencing what the characters say and do).

I don't think I've really insulted you. I just, y'know, disagree. So I post things that disagree, and back up my points as best I can. You take issue with the way Steven has reacted to the existential threats that loom over his universe, but I think those reactions have been relatively reasonable given the circumstances. A broader problem exists because you're being a bit wrong genre savvy in your approach. In the context of this show, Steven's plan of trying to see the beauty in every living thing, even if they're trying to wipe him out, would likely have a higher success rate than your asserted plan of taking up arms and beefing up as much as possible.

Edit: Also, pretty sure I've been providing a reasonable citation density. If I've been doing it less lately, it's because I feel like I've already provided a lot of material to support the specific claims I'm making. If I end up needing to prove a new thing, then I'll probably break out some new stuff.

[Fawkes]

All jokes aside, I resent the idea that a fandom is some kind of stepfordian entity where nobody can ever have an issue and nothing can ever be wrong. I didn't have any particular malice to you for not liking Say Uncle, but the idea that I'm taking any issue at all with the shows characterization is apparently an unforgivable sin, despite the fact that the events directly shown back up what I say more than yours(which should be obvious from the fact that I'm the one actually referencing what the characters say and do).

How many times do I have to reference the porkchip quote before you understand its not a matter of everything being exactly perfect? It's not that you have problems with the show, it's that you're exceedingly negative and insulting.

[Scowling Dragon]

Porkchops are not used for hotdogs (Even the show pointed that out). Low Grade meat is.

And sodium nitrate. Which gives them a link to cancer.

Failures are not some precious elements that are great just in other forms.

[eggynack]

Porkchops are not used for hotdogs (Even the show pointed that out). Low Grade meat is.

And sodium nitrate. Which gives them a link to cancer.

Failures are not some precious elements that are great just in other forms.

I suspect you're missing the point somewhat, especially because you could just use the phrase, "If all meat were of a high grade..." instead. Alternatively, if you really have some problem with hot dogs, we could just make it, "If every lab were run perfectly, we wouldn't have penicillin." Not quite as punchy, but there ya go. The point being made by Fawkes, or at least what I believe the point to be, is that a flaw in a character on Steven Universe does not really equate to a flaw in Steven Universe. Steven can be somewhat unfocused in his pursuits, or not be the smartest fellow, or sometimes miss things that seem important to us, but that's just fine, not just because he's young, but also because flaws are part of what makes us who we are.

[Scowling Dragon]

Nah Im get it. Its just not a very good phrase thats all. Very mockworthy. Its just so precious.

Steven Universe says that as long as characters flaws don't hurt you, its fine if other people get hurt instead.

Or as long as feelings are spared, everybody can die together. Load of bull the whole thing is.

[Marcivo]

Jeez. I've been lurking this thread for a while, but I've been hesitant to join the conversation. Can't we just talk about the show without being rude and condescending?

Nah Im get it. Its just not a very good phrase thats all. Very mockworthy. Its just so precious.

Steven Universe says that as long as characters flaws don't hurt you, its fine if other people get hurt instead.

Or as long as feelings are spared, everybody can die together. Load of bull the whole thing is.

I don't think you understand. The point of the catchphrase is that the world can be flawed and ugly - this is an unavoidable fact of life, the acceptance of which is one step on the road to maturity. Rose loved the quote because it encapsulated her philosophy. She found beauty in ugly things, similar to the way we make bad meat into something desirable: by turning it into hot dogs.

It's not mockworthy. It's just a very Steven Universey way of saying, "when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade."

[Callos_DeTerran]

Im just frustrated because Im feeling whack-a-mole with a worm. Its a case with any fandom where ___ is perfect. Or at least has no faults. Its everything and nothing at once, and even if it does have a flaw, or heck just an element I dislike, it must be because Im just so negative all the time because Im just a grouch and so my opinion doesn't matter.

It feels like Im taking crazy pills, where I have to explain every basic minutia of basic, writing details, or basic details. Even on a fundamental just baby steps basic level. And its difficult enough doing so without people assuming that I just don't care, or I just want the exact same opinion as mine.

Everything has faults, ever. Nothing that is used for entertainment is perfect, no matter what the fans say. I don't think anyone here has suggested that (or maybe they have, I tuned out awhile ago because this argument is a major buzzkill no matter what mood I'm in). The thing isn't that you're a grouch and your opinion doesn't matter (I don't believe either), its that it looks and feels like you actively dislike the show and come to the thread to insult it and the people who do. And this is coming from someone who actually was around when you had positive stuff to say! And yeah, if people feel like they're being attacked for something they enjoy, they get hostile back. Not rocket science to figure that out.

But that second paragraph, right there? That might be why this discussion isn't far more civil and friendly (and thus doesn't raise anxiety as much). Even assuming you do care and aren't looking for the exact same opinion as yours, when you say phrases like that you come off as a massively condescending jerk who has the only valid opinion and everyone with another is apparently an idiot. I don't think you intend that and if you don't, you need to work on that. Cause as it is...well...I don't come around here...or many threads you frequent because of that attitude that you have the only right opinion that doesn't see the value in anyone else's viewpoints. And don't point to your signature, because an opinionated jerk is still a jerk, even if he warns people about it. It doesn't make up for terrible behavior and is basically just an excuse.

I don't as much feel like Im arguing with an idea, as with an idea that always changes its goalposts. Its swordfighting a fart!

This might be the problem right here honestly. Why are you treating this like an argument rather than a debate? Arguments, by their very nature, are confrontational, destructive, and emotional. I'll happily debate the merits and faults of something I enjoy all day long, but try to avoid arguing about it since it rarely is productive.

[Admiral Squish]

Yeah... You're kinda being incredibly rude, condescending, argumentative, and nit-picking. I can't honestly tell if you're trolling the thread at this point. I've spotted a handful of good points in your posts, and perhaps you might have convinced me to accept them if you'd presented them in a less "I'm right, everyone else is wrong, period" kind of way.

[Fawkes]

Nah Im get it. Its just not a very good phrase thats all. Very mockworthy. Its just so precious.

Steven Universe says that as long as characters flaws don't hurt you, its fine if other people get hurt instead.

Or as long as feelings are spared, everybody can die together. Load of bull the whole thing is.

I have no words.

This might be the problem right here honestly. Why are you treating this like an argument rather than a debate? Arguments, by their very nature, are confrontational, destructive, and emotional. I'll happily debate the merits and faults of something I enjoy all day long, but try to avoid arguing about it since it rarely is productive.

I'd like to have an argument, please.

[Fralex]

Wow, people got really unfriendly since I visited last.

I highly doubt anyone here is trolling. It seems more like a few people were critical of the show to varying degrees of reasonableness, other people were critical of the criticism to varying degrees of reasonableness, the two parties gradually got more frustrated with each other and responded by increasing the sharpness of their tones, both parties then got gradually more offended by the increase in sharpness, and finally both parties were too offended by the other to really care about all the subtle and less-than-subtle jabs their replies were laced with, and now via positive feedback the argument is inherently unwinnable and irreconcilable.

Can we not have the entire hiatus be filled by a tedious internet argument I suspect many don't really care about? All of you seem pretty reasonable. Does anyone currently commenting in this thread sincerely either A) not even like the show, and only come here to convince its fans that they shouldn't like it either; or B) believe this show is the pinnacle of western animation, completely without any flaws? I'm not getting that impression. Don't make each other out to be extremists! How about this:

Everyone here presumably thinks SU has SOME good elements in it, so tell us what your favorite episode(s) is/are and why you think they are an example of this show at its best. You can use this as a method of both constructive criticism AND constructive praise, by showing everybody else the sort of things you hope to see more of in the future! I'll go first:

One episode I'll always really like is "Coach Steven," because it's the one time in a show I've seen somebody turn the tide of a battle just by shouting "Believe in yourself!" where it's actually felt totally justified and believable. Pearl was so hung up on proving to herself and to Steven that she could be powerful like the others, she forgot what her own strengths were. Then she learns he really did respect her for her own strengths: being clever, nimble, and resourceful. When I see Pearl pull herself onto her feet, and confidently declare, "You're no match for me! NOT EVEN CLOSE!", it makes me feel so... proud of her. It's an unusual emotion to experience in a cartoon. Plus, Pearl's song is awesome.

[eggynack]

One episode I'll always really like is "Coach Steven," because it's the one time in a show I've seen somebody turn the tide of a battle just by shouting "Believe in yourself!" where it's actually felt totally justified and believable. Pearl was so hung up on proving to herself and to Steven that she could be powerful like the others, she forgot what her own strengths were. Then she learns he really did respect her for her own strengths: being clever, nimble, and resourceful. When I see Pearl pull herself onto her feet, and confidently declare, "You're no match for me! NOT EVEN CLOSE!", it makes me feel so... proud of her. It's an unusual emotion to experience in a cartoon. Plus, Pearl's song is awesome.

Yeah, that's definitely in my top couple of episodes. One of my favorite aspects might just be the irony implied by the fact that Pearl was singing about how sad she was about not teaching Steven stuff, and Steven not understanding true strength, and then Steven used what he learned listening to Pearl sing in order to express his true strength by encouraging others to be their best selves.

As for my favorite episode, I'll go with Alone Together. The gender issues aspect is interesting to me, but more than that is the fact that every element of it just feels perfect to me. Everything about the art and music is at the top level for the show, especially the running scene and that epic ending song. It just feels like what the show does best to me. This really small episode filled with emotional resonance, with a strong character focus. And the very end, with Steven and Connie crying and laughing, is so beautiful. It gets this mood across, which I really appreciate when it comes up, that it could be a really good short story.

[Fralex]

As for my favorite episode, I'll go with Alone Together. The gender issues aspect is interesting to me, but more than that is the fact that every element of it just feels perfect to me. Everything about the art and music is at the top level for the show, especially the running scene and that epic ending song. It just feels like what the show does best to me. This really small episode filled with emotional resonance, with a strong character focus. And the very end, with Steven and Connie crying and laughing, is so beautiful. It gets this mood across, which I really appreciate when it comes up, that it could be a really good short story.

Stevonnie's voice actor was pretty much exactly what I'd expect a teenage amalgam of Steven and Connie to sound and act like. I feel like out of all the fusions, Stevonnie is the most... convincing? Garnet comes in at a close second, but I still think Stevonnie does the best job of showing how fusion combines two personalities homogeneously.

Also, if Connie successfully learns swordplay from Pearl, Stevonnie could become a really cool classic sword-and-shield warrior. OVERHEAD DEATH-STRIKE!

[Jayngfet]

How many times do I have to reference the porkchip quote before you understand its not a matter of everything being exactly perfect? It's not that you have problems with the show, it's that you're exceedingly negative and insulting.

There's a difference between making a Hot Dog rather than a Porkchop, and ONLY making Hot Dogs even if it's a fancy dinner and not a superbowl party.

Context is king. If they were still just fighting random gem monsters every week it wouldn't be a huge deal. But the show kind of abandoned it's monster of the week format months ago to build up this massive galactic empire coming for earth ...but everyone's still acting as if they're just fighting the random monsters. As a general rule of narrative, based on how things inevitably go in real life, when the Villain steps up their game the hero needs to escalate to keep up and overcome them. Because that's how it works, your enemy brings a greater weapon to bare and if you can't compensate, you die.

But that doesn't really happen. I mean it kind of does but the narrative doesn't really frame it that way. The enemy escalates from an unintelligent, singular entity into a group of conscious and experienced opponents who take the initiative. The heroes try the stuff that worked before, with the meter dialed up, then they fail. Which is totally valid as far as building tension goes. It makes the audience realize that Jasper and Peridot were bringing to bear force several times tougher than the Red Eye, or the Giant Bird, or any of the previous benchmarks for a big, beefy opponent. Jasper in particular is manhandling Lapis Lazuli, the previous benchmark for "super powerful enemy the Crystal Gems had no hope of defeating".

So Jasper wins. They get beat the hell up and thrown into dingy cells. But then Garnet reforms, and despite pretty much nothing changing she's just somehow strong and fast enough to solo this opponent, and do so while taking basically no hits. I mean she sang a song and changed clothes but nothing in-universe escalated. She didn't turn into super-garnet or bust out a new technique like the rocket punch or anything else to signify that the tides had turned. She was just suddenly better and that was it.

They didn't win because they'd collected a weapon capable of beating back their foes, all of those had clearly failed. They didn't win because of the training Steven tried to put in, because he had nothing outside of a single moment of adrenaline he could have done in episode one. They didn't even win because Amethyst and Pearl had some kind of skills of moment to make them win the day, since they too could have done everything by episode one.

Nothing changed. The season finale could have been dropped in as episodes two and three for all the difference it made in the end.

It's fine to ask for Hot Dogs as a casual meal, but if you get promised a five star pork dish and someone hands you an Oscar Mayer frank, you're right to be upset. Especially if that same someone spent weeks hyping up their culinary game before handing you discount meat and velveeta cheese on a slice of white bread. At that point it becomes kind of insulting, if that's what they hand you as their hand spiced tenderloin.

[eggynack]

I disagree about a few aspects of the finale. First, one thing obviously did change between the first fight and the second, and that thing is that Garnet recognized the threat presented by the gemsplosion wand. Jasper wasn't clearly in an advantaged position in a head to head fight, because a head to head fight between them had never happened. Second, I think one thing did absolutely change on a character level, which is that Steven finally seems to recognize the existential threat represented by the homeworld gems (as evidenced by the second episode), and some stuff also changed on a plot level, as both Malachite and Peridot exist as entities that are really close to home, and the homeworld gems apparently think he's Rose, which is a big bag of problems.

Anyway, I think you're misreading the quote. He means that people can be imperfect within the context of the show without it really tarnishing the quality of said show, not that the quality of the show is irrelevant. If there are flaws with Steven Universe, and there are, they don't come from the fact that Steven doesn't always do the exact right thing. They come from, say, a given character being undeveloped or uninteresting, or from the pacing of an episode being off, or from the general nature of an episode just not meeting your expectations for whatever reason.

However, I don't think the finale was a "hotdog", as it were. They did give some indication that what was happening was more threatening than it turned out to be, but as I've pointed out, I think they did something rather brilliant with Jailbreak, in that they eschewed the obvious route, a really big climactic fight with palpable tension and massive stakes, and instead went with something close, character based, and beautiful. They said, "Y'know what? If I have to choose between the big enemy and Garnet characterization, Garnet's more important." That strikes me as so daring, setting the big climax to what is basically an "I am" song.

So, what's your favorite episode, anyway? Fralex is right, that we've turned what should be a place of joy into a staging ground for arguments, and while I'm cool with some arguing now and again, I figure that we'd all be better off starting on common ground. You could also mention your least favorite episode, if you'd like, as that'd be interesting if not as positive. That'd obviously be Say Uncle for me, but that's way too known to be an interesting answer, so I'll go with Keep Beach City Weird. That whole episode just gave the show a tone that I'm not all that comfortable with it having.

[Jayngfet]

I disagree about a few aspects of the finale. First, one thing obviously did change between the first fight and the second, and that thing is that Garnet recognized the threat presented by the gemsplosion wand. Jasper wasn't clearly in an advantaged position in a head to head fight, because a head to head fight between them had never happened. Second, I think one thing did absolutely change on a character level, which is that Steven finally seems to recognize the existential threat represented by the homeworld gems (as evidenced by the second episode), and some stuff also changed on a plot level, as both Malachite and Peridot exist as entities that are really close to home, and the homeworld gems apparently think he's Rose, which is a big bag of problems.

It's not just that she managed to dodge the one wand. It's that Garnet is suddenly many times stronger and faster than she was before, to the point where pretty much no hits came close to connecting.

On a plot level it's kind of a case of being too little, too late. Steven should have been coming to terms with what's going on many episodes before that.

Anyway, I think you're misreading the quote. He means that people can be imperfect within the context of the show without it really tarnishing the quality of said show, not that the quality of the show is irrelevant. If there are flaws with Steven Universe, and there are, they don't come from the fact that Steven doesn't always do the exact right thing. They come from, say, a given character being undeveloped or uninteresting, or from the pacing of an episode being off, or from the general nature of an episode just not meeting your expectations for whatever reason.

I'm fine with them not doing "the exact right thing", what I'm not fine with is characters not trying.

However, I don't think the finale was a "hotdog", as it were. They did give some indication that what was happening was more threatening than it turned out to be, but as I've pointed out, I think they did something rather brilliant with Jailbreak, in that they eschewed the obvious route, a really big climactic fight with palpable tension and massive stakes, and instead went with something close, character based, and beautiful. They said, "Y'know what? If I have to choose between the big enemy and Garnet characterization, Garnet's more important." That strikes me as so daring, setting the big climax to what is basically an "I am" song.

Then don't set up the tension. If you want the finale to be a Garnet moment, then fine. But don't set up an enemy over the course of several months as being mysterious and powerful and scary, then throw it down the drain so you can have a musical number. That's not being daring, that's renging on the course you set at the last second.

So, what's your favorite episode, anyway? Fralex is right, that we've turned what should be a place of joy into a staging ground for arguments, and while I'm cool with some arguing now and again, I figure that we'd all be better off starting on common ground. You could also mention your least favorite episode, if you'd like, as that'd be interesting if not as positive. That'd obviously be Say Uncle for me, but that's way too known to be an interesting answer, so I'll go with Keep Beach City Weird. That whole episode just gave the show a tone that I'm not all that comfortable with it having.

Ironically, I'd have to go with Say Uncle, at least for the time being. Especially the first half or so of it. I didn't even realize just how big the Uncle Grandpa shaped hole in the show was until he actually showed up. What Steven needs, as a character, is someone as results oriented as UG wound up being. Steven wanted to summon the shield, and so Uncle Grandpa kept putting him in situations where he'd need a shield and seeing what stuck. When normal means failed he got outlandish about it until the results were acquired. Which is what Steven needs in his life more than anything else, really. A fatherly(?) figure willing to make him "do his homework" so to speak and help him with it when needed.

Beyond that, there was a kind of wink and nudge set of jokes that made it clear that the crew knew exactly what kind of problems people like me would take issue with ahead of time and planned around them, rather than just ignoring the idea entirely and acting like everything is great.

As for least favorite, I'm gonna go with Love Letters. It was fifteen minutes of a mailman crying, and felt like a series of missed opportunities for either character moments or at least decent gags. I'd be fine with both, really. One of the most notable problems SU has in a meta-sense is that it's gags rarely translate well to previews. Every week the network has clips for commercials to draw in the audience and almost every week Steven Universe just throws something random out there as if it were an obligation. If I had to give anything to Reformed, it'd be that the gas mask gag was at least funny enough to be the best thing in the previews that week.

[eggynack]

It's not just that she managed to dodge the one wand. It's that Garnet is suddenly many times stronger and faster than she was before, to the point where pretty much no hits came close to connecting.

Was there ever any real indication that Garnet was all that much stronger in Jailbreak than she was in The Return? My impression was that she got kinda blindsided by the wand the first time around, and afterwards she was able to neutralize that threat leaving them relatively equal.

On a plot level it's kind of a case of being too little, too late. Steven should have been coming to terms with what's going on many episodes before that.

He had been, but on a lesser level. He'd seen a lot of little things, like the gem battlefield, and the kindergarten, and gem monsters, and Lapis, but it was always kinda distant, a war thousands of years in the past and many light years away (not both simultaneously, but one and then the other). Now it's on his doorstep, and he understands much better. It's one thing to be told that the home world gems are dangerous. It's another to experience it first hand.

I'm fine with them not doing "the exact right thing", what I'm not fine with is characters not trying.

I feel like they do try though. Steven doesn't try as much as he could at the gem stuff, but he goes out into the world, taking on adventures, just about every episode. It's not apathy so much as different priorities.

Then don't set up the tension. If you want the finale to be a Garnet moment, then fine. But don't set up an enemy over the course of several months as being mysterious and powerful and scary, then throw it down the drain so you can have a musical number. That's not being daring, that's renging on the course you set at the last second.

But they didn't throw it away. It didn't look it at first, but Jailbreak seems very much another setup episode in retrospect, with any sort of big confrontation off in the distance. Aside from the critical Garnet stuff, it plays out a lot like a Warp Tour or Marble Madness, except perhaps with even more pieces put into play.

Ironically, I'd have to go with Say Uncle, at least for the time being. Especially the first half or so of it. I didn't even realize just how big the Uncle Grandpa shaped hole in the show was until he actually showed up. What Steven needs, as a character, is someone as results oriented as UG wound up being. Steven wanted to summon the shield, and so Uncle Grandpa kept putting him in situations where he'd need a shield and seeing what stuck. When normal means failed he got outlandish about it until the results were acquired. Which is what Steven needs in his life more than anything else, really. A fatherly(?) figure willing to make him "do his homework" so to speak and help him with it when needed.

Beyond that, there was a kind of wink and nudge set of jokes that made it clear that the crew knew exactly what kind of problems people like me would take issue with ahead of time and planned around them, rather than just ignoring the idea entirely and acting like everything is great.

I do see the appeal of the training stuff, as I appreciated those bits of the episode at the time, though I gotta say, I just didn't find it funny. Which is a bit of a death knell for an episode whose primary asset is presumably its humor. It felt like they were leaving behind sincere, which the show is great at, but then they failed to go sufficiently absurd, leaving them in an uncomfortable middle ground. Take as example something like Rick and Morty. Now that show knows how to go big on its absurdity, and even while it does, it still keeps said absurdity rooted in character. Contrast a classic line from Rick and Morty like, "They're bureaucrats, Morty. I don't respect them, which manages to be simultaneously ludicrous, unexpected, and deeply character building, with, I dunno, Uncle Grandpa being in multiple places at once. How is that all that unexpected or absurd? What does it tell us about his character? You'd probably be able to come up with better Uncle Grandpa chunks of amusement, but I still don't remember any of it being all that character based. Of course, if you just liked it as a rebuke of SU stuff, rather than as a humor chunk, that's a clearer motivation to me, though also one I obviously don't share.

As for least favorite, I'm gonna go with Love Letters. It was fifteen minutes of a mailman crying, and felt like a series of missed opportunities for either character moments or at least decent gags. I'd be fine with both, really. One of the most notable problems SU has in a meta-sense is that it's gags rarely translate well to previews. Every week the network has clips for commercials to draw in the audience and almost every week Steven Universe just throws something random out there as if it were an obligation. If I had to give anything to Reformed, it'd be that the gas mask gag was at least funny enough to be the best thing in the previews that week.

Definitely not one of my favorites, though I really loved the, "Well that ain't happening," promo, and by extension that scene in the episode. Really got me excited for the episode. The episode itself let me down a bit, because there didn't seem to be sufficient Garnet, and also because I wasn't entirely pleased with the direction they went with Jamie, but I was pretty into the core idea of it.

[Fawkes]

Contrast a classic line from Rick and Morty like, "They're bureaucrats, Morty. I don't respect them, which manages to be simultaneously ludicrous, unexpected, and deeply character building, with, I dunno, Uncle Grandpa being in multiple places at once.

Is that from the first episode, when Rick tells Morty the guards are robots, then explains it was a figure of speech? Because yes, that was amazing.