Blood Runs in the Family commentary question.

[Peelee]

The Giant mentioned, in two different sections, at least two characters having or growing in "agency." I have not encountered that word used in this way, and I think a person explaining it might yield a better explanation than a simple Google search. Any takers?

[Porthos]

"Agency" can often be used where "free will" is. There are slight differences, especially when one gets to philosophical discussions [which for obvious reasons I ain't touching with a ten foot pole here ] but that's more or less the upshot.

Agency also has strong overtones, at least as I understand it, of autonomy. Especially in literary situations. So when someone speaks of having "agency" they are speaking of someone actively controlling their own decisions and fates and not just letting others order them about with no say so in the matter. Or, at worst, being a glorified automaton with no independent thought, drive, or motivation.

Getting into specifics, and without having read the commentary yet, Blackwing is easily one of them. One of the subplots of BRitF was, IMO, him becoming an actual character as opposed to being a glorified joke/class feature with no will, consciousness, or motivation of his own.

[Peelee]

"Agency" can often be used where "free will" is. There are slight differences, especially when one gets to philosophical discussions [which for obvious reasons I ain't touching with a ten foot pole here ] but that's more or less the upshot.

Agency also has strong overtones, at least as I understand it, of automomy. Especially in literary situations. So when someone speaks of having "agency" they are speaking of someone actively controlling their own decisions and fates and not just letting others order them about with no say so in the matter. Or, at worst, being a glorified automaton with no independent thought, drive, or motivation.

Getting into specifics, and without having read the commentary yet, Blackwing is easily one of them. One of the subplots of BRitF was, IMO, him becoming an actual character as opposed to being a glorified joke/class feature with no will, consciousness, or motivation of his own.

That makes perfect sense, and everything now fits. I will neither confirm nor deny Blackwing as being called out so as to preserve the surprise, but that was a great example. Thanks!

[Porthos]

That makes perfect sense, and everything now fits.

Glad to be of service!

I will neither confirm nor deny Blackwing as being called out so as to preserve the surprise, but that was a great example. Thanks!

At least you didn't say "You might very well say that; I couldn't possibly comment", so thanks for that.

Though, you have gotten me thinking a bit. Given one of the themes of one of the characters of BRitF, who shall go nameless here, I have a decent suspicion on who one of the characters might, just might, be.

I should find out within 48 hours.

[Peelee]

At least you didn't say "You might very well say that; I couldn't possibly comment", so thanks for that.

And now I'm all intrigued and want to check that out, because he sounds awesome. Would you recommend the novels or series?

[Jasdoif]

The Giant mentioned, in two different sections, at least two characters having or growing in "agency." I have not encountered that word used in this way, and I think a person explaining it might yield a better explanation than a simple Google search. Any takers?

As it turns out, the instance I was thinking of for the concept even uses the word "agency":

I've never killed a developed character where that character's death wasn't a direct result of their own choices.

Is this a coincidence or did you sit down and say "all character's must die by their choices".

I think it's pretty much Storytelling 101, actually. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's how I see it. If the character isn't important enough to die through their own agency, even indirectly, then they're not important enough to learn much about in the first place.

Emphasis mine.

[Peelee]

As it turns out, the instance I was thinking of for the concept even uses the word "agency":Emphasis mine.

Amusingly, that line was in the book almost verbatim. That's part of what got me hung up on it; context clues let me make an educated guess, but it didn't fit quite right with the other uses.

[Porthos]

And now I'm all intrigued and want to check that out, because he sounds awesome. Would you recommend the novels or series?

Never read the novels, but I can unreservedly and without hesitation recommend the UK series if you at all like Shakesperian type drama/thrillers. Especially the first series, as it is near perfection. As I understand it, the US version of the series is just as good, just in different ways (mostly due to reasons of pace and setting). I haven't seen as much of the US version as I have of the UK one, mind. But both are very very good in their own ways.

It helps to be a bit of a political junkie. But it isn't necessary, I feel.

Amusingly, that line was in the book almost verbatim. That's part of what got me hung up on it; context clues let me make an educated guess, but it didn't fit quite right with the other uses.

Hmmmm..... Guess getting stronger.

[littlebum2002]

I've read this thread 3 times and can't for the life of me figure out what series you're talking about!

[Peelee]

I've read this thread 3 times and can't for the life of me figure out what series you're talking about!

Hint: I literally highlighted the phrase, "You might very well say that; I couldn't possibly comment," and copy/pasted into the googles.

House of Cards. I'm assuming the Netflix series is a U.S. adaptation, like what happened with The Office (and to a much lesser extent, The IT Crowd. That show was so perfect, too....).

Hmmmm..... Guess getting stronger.

You might very well say that; I couldn't possibly comment. OH COME ON. You know I had to!

[Porthos]

Hint: I literally highlighted the phrase, "You might very well say that; I couldn't possibly comment," and copy/pasted into the googles.

House of Cards. I'm assuming the Netflix series is a U.S. adaptation, like what happened with The Office (and to a much lesser extent, The IT Crowd. That show was so perfect, too....).


You might very well say that; I couldn't possibly comment. OH COME ON. You know I had to!

Yes, the series we are talking about is House of Cards, which was originally a book, then adapted into a massively well received British miniseries and then followed by two more books and miniseries.

A couple of years ago, Netflix got the rights and started to make a US version of the show, which is still ongoing.

Both series can be found on Amazon and Netflix, IIRC.

[littlebum2002]

I've heard a lot of good things about this series, but I'm not really into political drama stuff so I never got into it.

But for awhile I was just wondering what I was missing. You quoted him, then started talking about some series that he never mentioned! But I get the reference now, thanks.

[Darth Paul]

No fair, Peelee! My book hasn't arrived yet! How can I comment intelligently on your thread? Wait until this weekend (hopefully) and I'll check back in.

[Peelee]

No fair, Peelee! My book hasn't arrived yet! How can I comment intelligently on your thread? Wait until this weekend (hopefully) and I'll check back in.

How sad would you feel if I were to reveal Porthos had not yet received the book either when he came in and pretty much delivered the prefect answer?

[Darth Paul]

How sad would you feel if I were to reveal Porthos had not yet received the book either when he came in and pretty much delivered the prefect answer?

Aw, man!!!

[Porthos]

Aw, man!!!

Sorry.

If it's any help....

Spoiler

Show

My guesses for who the people were the subject of the agency talk....

Spoiler

Show

Were Oh For Three.

[Darth Paul]

I feel much better now, having read the whole thread; also given that I only made 2 guesses, which were pretty much dead on.

I believe "agency" in this context comes down to being an agent of one's own fate, rather than a passive participant in someone else's plans.

Spoiler: Bloody Spoiler

Show

Elan, of course, is the one who grows the most in his agency during this book; ironically, though, he does so by choosing to continue following Roy, rather than accepting Tarquin's idea of being "his own man" and leading a party for himself. So Elan's agency partly involves rejecting ultimate free agency. Then we have Redcloak, who makes clear that he is only in the minion role as long as it suits him; at least, that's his plan. What Xykon will make of it is yet to be seen.