EMPIRE! A Community World-Building Game II: 2 Quest, 2 Curious

[Elemental]

Important questions regarding my recently acquired territory... I assume I need to do an explanation of the inhabitants, their religion and two additional terrain features, but I can do that in my sleep. Note: If I did do it in my sleep, it wouldn't be very good.
What I need to know though is, one, how do I determine the population of the region, and two, do they need an import necessity? If so, is there a method you have in mind so I don't just use something I already have access to?

Morph, can I have a response to these questions?

[Logic]

The World's Fair is officially open!

[Lord_Burch]

The roll I just made was for colonization of region 26. Sorry I didn't specify in the roll post.

[lt_murgen]

The stats for Amber and Evelyn have been posted in the rolling thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=28

Amber will be taking over for her father during this round.

However, Jonas is leading the charge to colonize region 26. Here is his diplomacy roll:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=40


I couldn't find anything on opposed colonization. I assume it goes to the highest diplomacy roll. However, do the ones who are not successful lose an action?

Also, note that since the Salterri Imperium map is vague, IC I am certain we will be very cautious.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

The stats for Amber and Evelyn have been posted in the rolling thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=28

Amber will be taking over for her father during this round.

However, Jonas is leading the charge to colonize region 26. Here is his diplomacy roll:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=40


I couldn't find anything on opposed colonization. I assume it goes to the highest diplomacy roll. However, do the ones who are not successful lose an action?

Also, note that since the Salterri Imperium map is vague, IC I am certain we will be very cautious.

Remember, you can only have one ruler at a time. Rolling the stats happens when someone becomes a ruler. So from what I understand, rolling the stats for two people isn't correct, but I'm not positive. Check with Morph to make sure.

Also, make sure to state in your action post that the switch happens, so I can account for that in the next round. You don't need to make it an action, you just need to state it.

[zabbarot]

I will also be changing rulers this turn, are we still just going with the old rules? Morph had said the changes would go into effect this turn(I think?), but we just sort of debated them with no resolution.

[Rain Dragon]

Remember, you can only have one ruler at a time. Rolling the stats happens when someone becomes a ruler. So from what I understand, rolling the stats for two people isn't correct, but I'm not positive. Check with Morph to make sure.

Also, make sure to state in your action post that the switch happens, so I can account for that in the next round. You don't need to make it an action, you just need to state it.

Ah rats. Can I just state it here?

Elder Jaten kinda died at the age of 40 so Ambvard is the current regent... Sorry for the confusion!

EDIT - @SamBurke on earlier statement, I was just teasing Elemental. The map's pretty difficult to misinterpret now.

@Everyone, just a reminder - I might not be able to get fluff done or be very active this round. Hopefully I do, or at least can write notes because otherwise what's going on with my empire will /not/ make sense!

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I will also be changing rulers this turn, are we still just going with the old rules? Morph had said the changes would go into effect this turn(I think?), but we just sort of debated them with no resolution.

I'm not sure where that is at right now, to be honest. It was just news to me that I didn't have to take an action to make a new ruler.

Edit:

Ah rats. Can I just state it here?

Elder Jaten kinda died at the age of 40 so Ambvard is the current regent... Sorry for the confusion!

EDIT - @SamBurke on earlier statement, I was just teasing Elemental. The map's pretty difficult to misinterpret now.

@Everyone, just a reminder - I might not be able to get fluff done or be very active this round. Hopefully I do, or at least can write notes because otherwise what's going on with my empire will /not/ make sense!

Unfortunately, I'm going to lose this in short order amongst the mass postings of the OOC. I understand you are busy, so just link Ambvard's rolls and name as taking over in the post as a bullet point so I know it's happening. I need things like that in the posts, as well as trade details, so that I know people are agreeing to the same things, and so on. Having the information in one place also allows my job to be a lot less time consuming, particularly since I do not have the time to go through all of the threads in search of information. You could even just link your post on here to the actions, just so I can use that. Just make sure I can find your ruler's rolls as well.

[lt_murgen]

Remember, you can only have one ruler at a time. Rolling the stats happens when someone becomes a ruler. So from what I understand, rolling the stats for two people isn't correct, but I'm not positive. Check with Morph to make sure.

Also, make sure to state in your action post that the switch happens, so I can account for that in the next round. You don't need to make it an action, you just need to state it.

No problem, I will be certain to note in my post that we switched rulers.

The reason I rolled for both of the girls is so I have a one-time record of it. Given the girl's rivalry, one just might try to kill the other one.

I can hear the screams of "Daddy always liked ME best!" even now...

[Rain Dragon]

Done. It's also in my giant posts and family tree. I'll be sure to do the same thing for when Yuuhi comes to power. 「Like I said, hopefully I can write the fluff otherwise Yuuhi Vs Kokuei Battle of Wits will not... really... Bleh.」

Sorry about that.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Done. It's also in my giant posts and family tree. I'll be sure to do the same thing for when Yuuhi comes to power. 「Like I said, hopefully I can write the fluff otherwise Yuuhi Vs Kokuei Battle of Wits will not... really... Bleh.」

Sorry about that.

Thank you, I appreciate it. No worries, I know what it's like to be unable to post fluff.

[Elemental]

That reminds me... The King of Ashenia is going to die this turn, beginning the reign of his eldest son, who unfortunately is missing, so it'll be a regency headed by his second child. Who may or may not just usurp the throne after securing her rule for a bit more.
She's technically under house arrest, but no one knows why except for the King, so she'll probably be released upon his death so she can take part in his funerary procession and the associated ritual mourning. A whole year of plain black clothing, and uncombed hair; no jewellery, no feasting, no dancing and no hunting.

[Lord_Burch]

The stats for Amber and Evelyn have been posted in the rolling thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=28

Amber will be taking over for her father during this round.

However, Jonas is leading the charge to colonize region 26. Here is his diplomacy roll:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=40


I couldn't find anything on opposed colonization. I assume it goes to the highest diplomacy roll. However, do the ones who are not successful lose an action?

Also, note that since the Salterri Imperium map is vague, IC I am certain we will be very cautious.

@it_murgen In the new rules, diplomacy rolls are 1d6, not 1d10. So you need to re-roll that.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

That reminds me... The King of Ashenia is going to die this turn, beginning the reign of his eldest son, who unfortunately is missing, so it'll be a regency headed by his second child. Who may or may not just usurp the throne after securing her rule for a bit more.
She's technically under house arrest, but no one knows why except for the King, so she'll probably be released upon his death so she can take part in his funerary procession and the associated ritual mourning. A whole year of plain black clothing, and uncombed hair; no jewellery, no feasting, no dancing and no hunting.

@it_murgen In the new rules, diplomacy rolls are 1d6, not 1d10. So you need to re-roll that.

Hey Union Members! Does Ryazen Bay Concordat basically make the Jeweled Cities part of the Union of the North? Does it include your individual trades to the Jeweled cities? I see that Bordeux and Crima are both trading with The Jeweled Cities, and looking to see what is mergable and what isn't.

[Elemental]

Hey Union Members! Does Ryazen Bay Concordat basically make the Jeweled Cities part of the Union of the North? Does it include your individual trades to the Jeweled cities? I see that Bordeux and Crima are both trading with The Jeweled Cities, and looking to see what is mergable and what isn't.

The Ryazen Bay Concordat is an agreement that all who sign it agree to not interfere unlawfully with merchant shipping.
You confuse it with the confusingly, though much more specifically named, 353 Treaty of Ryazen Bay between the Jewelled Cities and the Union of the Northwest. And no, it doesn't make the Jewelled Cities part of the Union of the Northwest, that would be a more complicated agreement.


Here is the full text, plus an explanation of the terms.

The Jewelled Cities will take up the task of patrolling and protecting the shores of any member state of the Union of the Northwest from any who would threaten the safety and livelihood of their citizens. Furthermore, the Jewelled Cities will take up the task of safeguarding merchant shipping and the assistance of any ship in distress where it is practicable to do so.
The Jewelled Cities reserve the right to forego or support any offensive actions taken by the Union of the Northwest as they merit to be in their best interests.
The Union of the Northwest will allow for the formation of an independent base of operations in the city of Ryazen Bay within the Khalifate of Crima. The Jewelled Cities will fully fund and provision this base. In addition, they will pay an annuity of Precious Stones to the Khalifate as rental for the land, which shall remain sovereign territory of the Khalifate and subject to its laws. The Khalifate will retain the right to order the base dismantled and the patrol ships stationed there by the Jewelled Cities to leave should they choose, in forfeit of the annuity.
The Union of the Northwest will provide one annual sum in Lumber to the Jewelled Cities for the construction and maintenance of the patrol fleet.
The members of the Union of the Northwest agree to the establishment of permanent diplomatic missions by the Jewelled Cities within their borders and to the free movement of the peaceful representatives thereof.

Additionally; The Union of the North requests that the Jewelled Cities assist us in aiding the people of the Heartwaste and Eyrecradia due to their recent tragedy by agreeing to the transportation of shipments of timber across the sea for a period of ten years.
The Jewelled Cities shall aid in the construction of a fleet of armed merchant vessels for the Khalifate of Crima. In addition, they consent to the training of students from the Union of the North in the art of navigating the open ocean and the craftsmen of the Union in the art of building such ships. In return, the Union of the North will provide builders, artisans and stone to aid in the completion of the Navigational Academy in the Jewelled Cities such that its splendour is worthy of such an institution.

In simpler terms...
Long term agreements:
A defence pact between the Union of the North and the Jewelled Cities extending to both territory and shipping, but no requirement for the one party to participate in the other's wars of aggression unless they choose to do so. In specific, the Jewelled Cities will patrol the coast of the Union of the North.
The Jewelled Cities promise to assist ships in distress.
The Jewelled Cities will be allowed to create a naval base within Crima. They pay annual tribute of Precious Stones to the Khalifate of Crima in rent.
The Union of the North pays annual tribute in Bordeux Timber (Crima willingly agrees to forfeit their share to provide for the treaty as they are receiving Timber from Raaneki).
Diplomats from the Jewelled Cities and the Union of the North are given diplomatic immunity in each other's lands.
Short term agreements:
The Jewelled Cities transport Timber across the sea so that it may eventually reach the Heartwaste/Eyrecradia for a period of ten years. (I don't know if Burch is still sending Timber over, but he asked for that clause to be added. Seeing as it doesn't cost anything for either party to have this here, it doesn't matter either way.)
A complex method of trading ocean-going ship building technology over a period of five years. The Jewelled Cities build Crima a small navy, thereby training the Union of the North in shipbuilding and navigation, and we help them build their academy. To accomplish this, I (Ashenia) will spend the Great Project necessary to build the building and stock it with astronomical and mathematical texts in three languages, the common tongue, Cree and Ashenite. I hope that's an acceptable method of doing it.

[lt_murgen]

Hey Union Members! Does Ryazen Bay Concordat basically make the Jeweled Cities part of the Union of the North? Does it include your individual trades to the Jeweled cities? I see that Bordeux and Crima are both trading with The Jeweled Cities, and looking to see what is mergable and what isn't.

Wombat-

For brevity sake on charts and such, I don't mind being listed as part of the Union. Officially, I am acting as kind of a Privateer force- authorized by the Union to patrol their territorial waters in their name. But if they go to war, I can opt out. And if I get into a kerfuffle with someone (cough cough Salterri cough), they don't have to support me militarily.

All of the various individual trades were essentially negotiations to make that happen.



Lord Burch- nice catch, somehow I missed the new rules. I will re-roll as 1D6 instead of 1D10.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=41


Everyone- Evelyn is in her late 20s during turn 6. I am certain Amber would love to marry her off or otherwise find a place far far away from the islands for her.

[Elemental]

Wombat-

For brevity sake on charts and such, I don't mind being listed as part of the Union. Officially, I am acting as kind of a Privateer force- authorized by the Union to patrol their territorial waters in their name. But if they go to war, I can opt out. And if I get into a kerfuffle with someone (cough cough Salterri cough), they don't have to support me militarily.

Inadvisable. Not that we don't like you and all that, but it wouldn't do for people to make the mistake that you are part of the Union and send you messages meant for our eyes.
I hope you understand that.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

The Ryazen Bay Concordat is an agreement that all who sign it agree to not interfere unlawfully with merchant shipping.
You confuse it with the confusingly, though much more specifically named, 353 Treaty of Ryazen Bay between the Jewelled Cities and the Union of the Northwest. And no, it doesn't make the Jewelled Cities part of the Union of the Northwest, that would be a more complicated agreement.


Here is the full text, plus an explanation of the terms.

Hrm. Oh boy...that's a bunch.

Okay, so these trades -

Jeweled/Crima Treaty - Jewels for Stone, Mutual ports, sea faring tech.

Borduex/Jeweled Treaty - Protection for Wood

- are included in the Treaty of Ryazen Bay?

And also, The Ryazen Bay Concordat is an agreement of which persons to not interfere with merchant shipping?

[Lord_Burch]

@Wombat If you'd like, I can try and type a (very) condensed version of the Union/Cities agreement later. I'm in between classes now, but when I've got more time to properly read it over I could write something up.

[Elemental]

Hrm. Oh boy...that's a bunch.

Okay, so these trades -

Jeweled/Crima Treaty - Jewels for Stone, Mutual ports, sea faring tech.

Borduex/Jeweled Treaty - Protection for Wood

- are included in the Treaty of Ryazen Bay?

And also, The Ryazen Bay Concordat is an agreement of which persons to not interfere with merchant shipping?

Yep, it's a complicated treaty.

Umm... No.
From the Union to the Jewelled Cities:
Bordeux gives timber.
Crima rents out land for a naval base.
Ashenia builds a grand naval academy (great project) in the Jewelled Cities.

From the Jewelled Cities to the Union:
Precious Stones to Crima.
Coastal defence to the whole Union.
Patrols to protect shipping to the whole Union.
Build Navy for Crima.
Delayed giving of Ocean Going Ship Tech to the whole Union.

Mutual agreements:
Defence Pact.
Diplomatic Immunity to Diplomats, etc.


As for the Ryazen Bay Concordat, it's less a formal treaty and more an agreement. Hardly anyone signed it anyway. If I recall, it was just Ashenia, Bordeux and Crima that bothered to sign. Everyone else is welcome to if they want.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Yep, it's a complicated treaty.

Umm... No.
From the Union to the Jewelled Cities:
Bordeux gives timber.
Crima rents out land for a naval base.
Ashenia builds a grand naval academy (great project) in the Jewelled Cities.

From the Jewelled Cities to the Union:
Precious Stones to Crima.
Coastal defence to the whole Union.
Patrols to protect shipping to the whole Union.
Build Navy for Crima.
Delayed giving of Ocean Going Ship Tech to the whole Union.

Mutual agreements:
Defence Pact.
Diplomatic Immunity to Diplomats, etc.


As for the Ryazen Bay Concordat, it's less a formal treaty and more an agreement. Hardly anyone signed it anyway. If I recall, it was just Ashenia, Bordeux and Crima that bothered to sign. Everyone else is welcome to if they want.

The Jeweled Cities Round 5 (351-355) actions:

#5[Diplomacy]: Send Delegation to Central Sea conference and make trade / military agreements.
Specifics: -

To Crima: 1 trade sum of gemstones and access to sea-going technology for rights to a permanent base of operations and 1 trade sum of stone from Crima.
From Bordeaux: One sum of lumber for the protection of the coasts.

I got from this that Crima is also sending stone? And is the delayed Tech giving of Ocean faring tech because of the Grand Project?

Okay, so something like this:

Treaty of Ryazen Bay:

Participants: Bordeux, Ashenia, Crima, Sulvian Primarchy, and The Jeweled Cities.

Treaty of mutual defense, diplomatic immunity and trade, as well as a priority on Naval activities. Designates that Ashenia is to create the Grand Naval Academy in The Jeweled Cities, and the The Jeweled Cities will provide a coastal defense of the Union's shores, as well as patrols to protect the Union's shipping routes. Additionally, The Jeweled Cities will create a Navy for Crima. Trade includes Gems of The Jeweled Cities for a coastal port in Crima, and Bordeux Timber to The Jeweled Cities.

Edit Completed.

[Elemental]

I got from this that Crima is also sending stone? And is the delayed Tech giving of Ocean faring tech because of the Grand Project?

No. It sounds like that, but what actually happened was the Jewelled Cities asked for stone and craftsmen to help them build a building* suitable in splendour for their naval academy. To save on complex trade adjustments for the Union, I decided I could satisfy that element of the treaty by building it myself. Plus get stat increases by the ongoing diplomacy action.
*Note, I'm just building a building. The actual founding of the academy, gathering of the best teachers and all that, was done by the Jewelled Cities.

No again. That's because the fleet that the Jewelled Cities is building for Crima is also a process to train Union craftsmen in shipbuilding while people from the Union study up on navigation, sailing and all that in the Jewelled Citites.

And note, it's the 353 Treaty of Ryazen Bay in case future treaties are signed there.
Trust me, the treaty makes sense, and I know that because I penned it myself.


Edit: Yep. That works. It includes the ongoing parts of the treaty, and that's what's important.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, I'm just trying to translate it to be the cut and dry version for the alliance table, and ensure I know when things are happening.

Okay, so some clarifications:

* The port in Crima, once done, will allow Crima to do a Curiosity Check to learn the tech from The Jeweled Cities. Or is he basically providing the technology, and the Port is a fluff of how he's giving it. Is that a project that will be created to do this? As in, this isn't an immediate happening, hense your wording of the Tech being "delayed". Either way, is The Jeweled Cities building the port or is Crima?

* The building you are creating, is starting this round I see, and will take 5 rounds to complete. Alright, got it. I notice he's finishing the actual acadamy in Round 6, and you're starting the building for him round 6 also.

[Morph Bark]

Morph, can I have a response to these questions?

Terrain features, the stated number of resources in the round opening post the region was introduced in and the import necessitu (which all regions have) are all yours to define. Keep in mind that a region cannot satisfy their own import necessity, and imports and exports are tracked per region, not per country.

As for region 28, it has 7000 inhabitants, plus any you send there. (I should probably require colonizers/conquesters to at least move 1000 of their people to new regions to claim them.)

I will also be changing rulers this turn, are we still just going with the old rules? Morph had said the changes would go into effect this turn(I think?), but we just sort of debated them with no resolution.

Yes, the new rules apply this round. I havent managed to put them into the op yet, because editing posts on a tablet is a hassle (and if you stop for a while it deletes the changes it seems).

@it_murgen In the new rules, diplomacy rolls are 1d6, not 1d10. So you need to re-roll that.

The only roll that has ever been d10 based have been battle rolls.

[SamBurke]

Ohhhhhkay... yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and not try to colonize. I don't have the Diplomacy to do so, sadly. I'm gonna edit my posts.

[Morph Bark]

Ohhhhhkay... yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and not try to colonize. I don't have the Diplomacy to do so, sadly. I'm gonna edit my posts.

You can always try the Military approach.

[BladeofObliviom]

Ohhhhhkay... yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and not try to colonize. I don't have the Diplomacy to do so, sadly. I'm gonna edit my posts.

I was thinking something similar, actually. I can't beat that high of a diplomacy score even with a perfect roll (which I of course didn't get), and I don't really have the actions for it anyway. I dunno if it's too late though, since technically I already rolled. And I don't really want to charge in with arms.

[Elemental]

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, I'm just trying to translate it to be the cut and dry version for the alliance table, and ensure I know when things are happening.

Okay, so some clarifications:

* The port in Crima, once done, will allow Crima to do a Curiosity Check to learn the tech from The Jeweled Cities. Or is he basically providing the technology, and the Port is a fluff of how he's giving it. Is that a project that will be created to do this? As in, this isn't an immediate happening, hense your wording of the Tech being "delayed". Either way, is The Jeweled Cities building the port or is Crima?

* The building you are creating, is starting this round I see, and will take 5 rounds to complete. Alright, got it. I notice he's finishing the actual acadamy in Round 6, and you're starting the building for him round 6 also.

No. The naval base in Crima is something the Jewelled Cities wanted, and I have no idea why. There is no curiosity check to get the technology at all, it is simply given to us after the Jewelled Cities build one unit of naval units for Crima. Thus, delayed until ships can be built.
The Jewelled Cities is building the base, hence their paying of rent for land.

The building I am creating will house the academy once done. The academy is an institution and thus separate from the buildings built to house it, just as a family is separate from the house they live in. Ashenia knows nothing of sea travel, thus we could not create such an academy, but we do know how to build so we can put up a very ornate roof over the academy's head.

Terrain features, the stated number of resources in the round opening post the region was introduced in and the import necessitu (which all regions have) are all yours to define. Keep in mind that a region cannot satisfy their own import necessity, and imports and exports are tracked per region, not per country.

As for region 28, it has 7000 inhabitants, plus any you send there. (I should probably require colonizers/conquesters to at least move 1000 of their people to new regions to claim them.)

Good to know.
Just one more question... Region twenty-eight produces salt, can said salt be provided for all regions that make up the Kingdom of Ashenia while still leaving three stacks for export? It is important to check this as I am unsure of how this part works.

[SamBurke]

I was thinking something similar, actually. I can't beat that high of a diplomacy score even with a perfect roll (which I of course didn't get), and I don't really have the actions for it anyway. I dunno if it's too late though, since technically I already rolled. And I don't really want to charge in with arms.

You can always try the Military approach.

Well... I could, yeah. But at this point, I'd rather not get into armed conflict if I can avoid it.

[zabbarot]

Yes, the new rules apply this round. I havent managed to put them into the op yet, because editing posts on a tablet is a hassle (and if you stop for a while it deletes the changes it seems).

Spoiler: The Most Recent Heir Rules

Show

New Attribute Bonuses for Heirs
Instead of the current system for what bonuses to attributes heirs or other new rulers get (+1 if previous ruler had 4 or higher in that stat, +2 if 8 or higher; twice +1 if unrelated to previous ruler), I have come up with a new system in deliberation with Wombat. I believe this system is more balanced and fairer to those who focus on fewer stats, and makes the gap between longer players and new players smaller with regards to ruler stats (while still there clearly being a gap in resources, military strength, etc).

The new way is thus: new player’s rulers get two +1s to attributes of their choice, to two different attributes. Heirs of the first ruler get +2 to the attribute that was the highest attribute of the previous ruler, and +2 to an attribute of their choice. Heirs of the second or subsequent rulers get +3 to the attribute that was the highest attribute of the previous ruler, and +3 to an attribute of their choice.

If a new ruler was not the child of the previous ruler by blood, but adopted, the bonuses shift one step down (from +3/+3 to +2/+2, or from +2/+2 to +1/+1, or they stay at +1/+1). If a new ruler is unrelated to the previous ruler entirely, even by family bonds, they restart at two +1s to two attributes of their choice.

Since you scratched all this bit out does that mean we're still using the original system? (+1 for 4-7, +2 for 8+)