EMPIRE! A Community World-Building Game II: 2 Quest, 2 Curious

[Tychris1]

Fascinating. It's really cool seeing two different sides made out to be the villain, and both, by themselves, sound totally reasonable and believable accusations.

I believe your thoughts could be, to quote the one and only Grand Magus, summed up as:"Interesting."

Also, Quinton, relax. This is a game. I'm a "big bad traitor", we get it, and it was all levels of bad and surprise and annoying because it came from left field. That's kind of the point, it wouldn't be much of "secrecy" or "spying" if I was upfront and direct about it. But we have had several, IC, private messages regarding these attacks. The IC thread is not the OOC thread, or vice versa. I do not hold some malicious and nefarious hatred of you and all you stand for. I'm just playing a game, a game with giant talking ratmen, faerie mermaids, naked painted people flying on fire birds, and a guy who goes by the unofficial title "DoomKhan". This is not the real world, this is not personal, this is not anything but a bit of fun and escapism set in the mechanical boundaries of Morph's system. A system that, and I quote, even says it is a game involved with:"strategic elements, secretive scheming, and both cooperation and vehement competition between players at times".

Just relax.

[QuintonBeck]

I believe your thoughts could be, to quote the one and only Grand Magus, summed up as:"Interesting."

Also, Quinton, relax. This is a game. I'm a "big bad traitor", we get it, and it was all levels of bad and surprise and annoying because it came from left field. That's kind of the point, it wouldn't be much of "secrecy" or "spying" if I was upfront and direct about it. But we have had several, IC, private messages regarding these attacks. The IC thread is not the OOC thread, or vice versa. I do not hold some malicious and nefarious hatred of you and all you stand for. I'm just playing a game, a game with giant talking ratmen, faerie mermaids, naked painted people flying on fire birds, and a guy who goes by the unofficial title "DoomKhan". This is not the real world, this is not personal, this is not anything but a bit of fun and escapism set in the mechanical boundaries of Morph's system. A system that, and I quote, even says it is a game involved with:"strategic elements, secretive scheming, and both cooperation and vehement competition between players at times".

Just relax.

You're right, it is a game, and I'm not taking it personal. I guess as much as I try I just can't get over my moral code. Even when I try to be the villain, I try to be up front and honest about it. Being sneaky and snakey and betraying an ally just doesn't sit right with me, especially when the IC reasons for it are...shaky at best. It makes perfect sense OOC but practically none IC. That's what gets me heated. If it was all IC maneuvers I'd appreciate it, but it seems pretty OOC based with IC coming secondary. That's now how I play RP games, I try to stay respectful to my characters and that means sometimes not doing the smartest OOC thing because it wouldn't make sense IC. You seem to be playing an OOC meta-game, and making good moves don't get me wrong, but it simply doesn't match IC at all. At least not in my eyes.

Still, I'd like a number from you UN, I won't bow out until I have to, but I won't be coming back if I do fall.

[HisHolyAngel]

You're right, it is a game, and I'm not taking it personal. I guess as much as I try I just can't get over my moral code. Even when I try to be the villain, I try to be up front and honest about it. Being sneaky and snakey and betraying an ally just doesn't sit right with me, especially when the IC reasons for it are...shaky at best. It makes perfect sense OOC but practically none IC. That's what gets me heated. If it was all IC maneuvers I'd appreciate it, but it seems pretty OOC based with IC coming secondary. That's now how I play RP games, I try to stay respectful to my characters and that means sometimes not doing the smartest OOC thing because it wouldn't make sense IC. You seem to be playing an OOC meta-game, and making good moves don't get me wrong, but it simply doesn't match IC at all. At least not in my eyes.

Still, I'd like a number from you UN, I won't bow out until I have to, but I won't be coming back if I do fall.

I don't personally see any of it as OOC. Just because his characters didn't do there actions right in front of your nose for you to see, does not mean that their metagaming. Just like a nation can meet with another in secret, they (I suspect) had totally IC interaction across PM and other sources that would not be noticed by you.

Now I realize that I am very removed from this situation, and am not in alignment with either side, and that my opinion could easily be very uninformed, I still felt the need to throw my two cents in.

[QuintonBeck]

You guys are all right, I was getting angry unjustly. I hope you don't hold it against me. I'm calming down now. It's a game, I'm gonna play the game. If I lose, so be it, but I'm gonna try my darndest not to. I hope y'all understand why I was angry and anger makes you say stupid things, but I'm not gonna edit any of it away and try to hide it. I said it, I'll stand by having done so. I'm sorry everyone for losing my cool. Wait til you get attacked, it isn't fun haha

[Tychris1]

I do remember you once saying something about the UN making you out to he the villain, and how you wanted a real hero to fight, not some posturing knight. So there you go, less of a Paladin and more of a Rogue.

To be honest you remind me of one of my close friends IRL. He plays Black Templars and pretty much does the exact same thing you're saying (Which makes me wanting to run a Black Crusade campaign IRL exceptionally difficult. Only further hindered by another player wanting to be an Ork, another player just being a wierd ditzy guy who forgets half of his own character sheet, and another player who wants to be a Necron Cryptek ) with him always playing as either the "Noble Holy Man Justicedudeknight" or "Honorable Demon Evildudeknight".

Either way, I can respect your opinion on the validity of my actions, and recognize how you feel in regards to it. I apologize for how unstable and chaotic things have become this round, but hey;

Chaos is a ladder.

[Arutha]

It is a game. So play it, not the rules. Sure, OOC you can plot and the with no warning invade. It doesent say you can't. Sure, you can atack someone for no real reason, the rules don't say you can't. Sure, if you take the chicken infested flaw and a spell component pouch, you can make infinite chickens, the rules don't say you can't.

Sure, you can do things which make no sense in fluff, but are just within the rules.
But is that fun? Is this a game you play to win? Or one to spend time with other people, and, dare I say it, tell a story? This is not Risk. This is not Civ 5. This is world building. This is a game for the story, the fluff, the co-creation. I now have psy-dwarves. How do they interact with the Ratmen or the doom khan. I want to find out. Do you? Cause that's kind of the point.
[\rant]
Well, I'm staying for the long haul. Lookin to be a... Fun ride.

[QuintonBeck]

I do remember you once saying something about the UN making you out to he the villain, and how you wanted a real hero to fight, not some posturing knight. So there you go, less of a Paladin and more of a Rogue.

To be honest you remind me of one of my close friends IRL. He plays Black Templars and pretty much does the exact same thing you're saying (Which makes me wanting to run a Black Crusade campaign IRL exceptionally difficult. Only further hindered by another player wanting to be an Ork, another player just being a wierd ditzy guy who forgets half of his own character sheet, and another player who wants to be a Necron Cryptek ) with him always playing as either the "Noble Holy Man Justicedudeknight" or "Honorable Demon Evildudeknight".

Either way, I can respect your opinion on the validity of my actions, and recognize how you feel in regards to it. I apologize for how unstable and chaotic things have become this round, but hey;

Chaos is a ladder.

Don't you dare quote that worm Baelish at me! He's one of my most hated GoT characters!

Seriously guys, I'm sorry for my explosion. You guys are right that not everything has to be laid out, and while I still feel some dramatic rise was in order instead of just a sudden strike that's probably my story teller taking over, meaning I'd make a terrible guerrilla commander.

Funny how anger burns so bright and quick. I seriously am smiling where ten minutes ago I was furious. The human psyche is a strange thing.

[HisHolyAngel]

You guys are all right, I was getting angry unjustly. I hope you don't hold it against me. I'm calming down now. It's a game, I'm gonna play the game. If I lose, so be it, but I'm gonna try my darndest not to. I hope y'all understand why I was angry and anger makes you say stupid things, but I'm not gonna edit any of it away and try to hide it. I said it, I'll stand by having done so. I'm sorry everyone for losing my cool. Wait til you get attacked, it isn't fun haha

I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't find your anger unreasonable. I'd be upset if someone attacked Sycia, especially since I just started (thank you all for being so nice to me even though I plan to either convert you all in the future, or leave you to freeze in the Eternal Winter). I wasn't trying to chastise you for getting angry, just trying to cool you off with some reason. It's alway fair for people to get upset, that's why we have people to calm us down again. ^_^

[Arkhosia]

I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't find your anger unreasonable. I'd be upset if someone attacked Sycia, especially since I just started (thank you all for being so nice to me even though I plan to either convert you all in the future, or leave you to freeze in the Eternal Winter). I wasn't trying to chastise you for getting angry, just trying to cool you off with some reason. It's alway fair for people to get upset, that's why we have people to calm us down again. ^_^

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[QuintonBeck]

Militias take effect the round they're raised right? That's the whole reason behind them?

[HisHolyAngel]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You're the worst.

[Zap Dynamic]

Wait til you get attacked, it isn't fun haha

After the past two days? I got myself a contingency plan.

[Tychris1]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I feel like you were looking for this, somehow.

Also, I believe all actions happen the round after. The militia section, if memory serves me right, even has a section dedicated to reactionary Militia, in that a player only gets half of them if he raises them the turn he's invaded. I think the idea is that Militia's can be continually maintained with a single action, while armies require more actions over a longer period of time to maintain. Militias as a result provide a lesser bonus and are more easily effected.

@GoT: I don't actually watch the series. Snow Zombie guys, a giant wall, some Black Watch guys, the cool throne, and wolves are the only defacto things I know. Everything else is limited to popular quotes or scenes, such as the famous "Prepare yourself, X is coming."

[QuintonBeck]

I feel like you were looking for this, somehow.

Also, I believe all actions happen the round after. The militia section, if memory serves me right, even has a section dedicated to reactionary Militia, in that a player only gets half of them if he raises them the turn he's invaded. I think the idea is that Militia's can be continually maintained with a single action, while armies require more actions over a longer period of time to maintain. Militias as a result provide a lesser bonus and are more easily effected.

@GoT: I don't actually watch the series. Snow Zombie guys, a giant wall, some Black Watch guys, the cool throne, and wolves are the only defacto things I know. Everything else is limited to popular quotes or scenes, such as the famous "Prepare yourself, X is coming."

I know that's generally the case but I was thinking the militia is kinda worse than just raising army units. I see now you can use one action to raise all available militia though, so I guess that's the benefit of it. Guess it looks like they kick in a round later like everything.

You should watch the series. It's a really good show. Like, really good.

[SamBurke]

Um. Yes...? Did you not read their marriage customs for royalty, wherein the high priest marries a bunch of people and then kills each one as soon as they have a child?

I mean, in fairness to them, they might not have a religious reason, it might just be institutionalized serial murder for political reasons, but I don't think that really makes it better...

And that's the rub, though; if I'm a vassal, I wouldn't be a member of the GC, but I would have to treat members of the GC as though I were, at least by my understanding of the term.

I'd be retaining either not enough autonomy or too much, since I wouldn't actually be part of Guilder and thus assumed to be included in your alliances, but I wouldn't be allowed to fight any GC members who got it into their head to shove me around or affected by the restrictions on what people could do to me that the treaties include.

Besides, preexisting alliances would take precedence - meaning that Calorum could just insist that I go full-on Lord of Fire if I'm to be allowed to retain autonomy, in which case, it would all be done before I'd be your vassal anyway, so it wouldn't even be a corner case.

(Admittedly, I don't actually know this, but... Still. It's what I'd do if I were playing them, for IC reasons.)

Woah. I was unaware of that stuff.. I read less fluff than most. Thank you *VERY* much for bringing that to my attention, as I will be talking to the appropriate parties.

As to your religious conversion, that would not happen. At one point, Arutha requested the ability to convert select nations who were willing to Fire Nation, but that request was denied on the grounds of religious freedom.

Guess you can't say that any more, mate.

Ahem. I would like to direct everyone's attention to the IC thread please.

Duly noted! I'm really liking the speeches everyone's writing... I think we all went a little overboard (Myself most certianly included ), but they sound like actual wartime propaganda.

Fascinating. It's really cool seeing two different sides made out to be the villain, and both, by themselves, sound totally reasonable and believable accusations.

You are *TOTALLY* right... I should be taking notes on mass psychology or something.

I'm seriously contemplating quitting. I mean, ganging up on a bunch of active players with people who IC have had absolutely 0 interaction is all kinds of infuriating. When has the Union talked to Sympol and such and coordinated actions? Never, they've not had any interaction at all, but of course now we're to believe they were the best of pals seeking to coordinate military strikes.

Again, I'd at least appreciate a number from the Union. You're attacking me in peace time with my new ruler who wasn't focusing on military at all so I think that's a decent courtesy you could offer me.

EDIT: Continued ranting: Seriously, you guys whined and complained when I invaded and if you'd stepped in then I would have respected you, but coming in 5 years later (15 with Aloren) against a ruler who has done nothing to you is the pinnacle of cowardice and the weakest excuse for a war ever. I suppose you plan to hand the land I conquered back over to its rightful rulers and step away then? I should hope so, lest you become evil conquerors yourselves.

Bro, I support you to the hilt as an ally, but even if we get ourselves kicked, strategy/trickery/sabotage or not, I'm not quitting this game. I'll just start again.. maybe this time I'll make a factory nation for the Dawn League or something. That'd be fun!

I don't personally see any of it as OOC. Just because his characters didn't do there actions right in front of your nose for you to see, does not mean that their metagaming. Just like a nation can meet with another in secret, they (I suspect) had totally IC interaction across PM and other sources that would not be noticed by you.

Now I realize that I am very removed from this situation, and am not in alignment with either side, and that my opinion could easily be very uninformed, I still felt the need to throw my two cents in.

Agreeing with HHA. My problem with the situation is not their "Metagaming", but rather their propaganda and trying to slander the Doge... I like the little guy, gosh-darnit!

You're the worst.

I have no idea what happened, but I suspect I would laugh?

After the past two days? I got myself a contingency plan.

Heckayeah. I'm working on my own. It involves bribing Morph... what's yours?

[HisHolyAngel]

My contingency plan involves the converting the spiritual leaders of the Lord of Fire to the Doctrine of Frost, and calling down a miracle from Yphine as she plunges the world into the Eternal Winter, ridding myself of those who wish to bring me harm as we and our new converts live out our days in the Paradise.

[Arutha]

My contingency plan involves the converting the spiritual leaders of the Lord of Fire to the Doctrine of Frost, and calling down a miracle from Yphine as she plunges the world into the Eternal Winter, ridding myself of those who wish to bring me harm as we and our new converts live out our days in the Paradise.

That's.... A plan.... Sort of.... Have fun with that.... But it is a.... Cool plan

Mine is go into space and pull a suul'ka. That might be fun.

[Tychris1]

My plan is less of a plan and more of a backup nation.

Namely an Island nation of Pirates, Raiders, and layabouts who do nothing but drink beer and sit around on their island. They'd hold Oktoberfest every 5 Years, invent multiple forms of alcohol, and also be heavily dipped in Les Miserables for the first leader or two.

Also they're irish and wear eye patches. (And when I say Irish, I mean, I will literally run everything they say through an Irish Translator, and make sentences like this:"Well, dat is jist absolutely rapid! Drinks on me!")

[SamBurke]

My plan is less of a plan and more of a backup nation.

Namely an Island nation of Pirates, Raiders, and layabouts who do nothing but drink beer and sit around on their island. They'd hold Oktoberfest every 5 Years, invent multiple forms of alcohol, and also be heavily dipped in Les Miserables for the first leader or two.

Also they're irish and wear eye patches. (And when I say Irish, I mean, I will literally run everything they say through an Irish Translator, and make sentences like this:"Well, dat is jist absolutely rapid! Drinks on me!")

My entire game plan has changed. All troops to conquer Sympol to make this a thing.

Please make this a thing?

[HisHolyAngel]

My plan is less of a plan and more of a backup nation.

Namely an Island nation of Pirates, Raiders, and layabouts who do nothing but drink beer and sit around on their island. They'd hold Oktoberfest every 5 Years, invent multiple forms of alcohol, and also be heavily dipped in Les Miserables for the first leader or two.

Also they're irish and wear eye patches. (And when I say Irish, I mean, I will literally run everything they say through an Irish Translator, and make sentences like this:"Well, dat is jist absolutely rapid! Drinks on me!")

That is not how Irish people speak.

[Tychris1]

That is not how Irish people speak.

Perhaps not, but I've never met anyone who speaks in an irish accent, and phonetic writing is damned hard enough as is, I'm willing to let myself lose a bit of credibility in exchange for ease of posting.

My entire game plan has changed. All troops to conquer Sympol to make this a thing.

Please make this a thing?

I'm considering it. Honestly that's basically how I envisioned Sympol's along Rapid Run Beach sounded and looked like. Namely rugged isolated Irish Pirates.

[QuintonBeck]

We're gonna need another thread. I propose Empire: The Return of the Governmental Leader!

[Zap Dynamic]

Heckayeah. I'm working on my own. It involves bribing Morph... what's yours?

Berunda drone wine delivery in 30 minutes or less, of course!

[Elemental]

Well... This is going well...

[Morph Bark]

You should watch the series. It's a really good show. Like, really good.

Or, y'know, read the books.

/totally not elitist

We're gonna need another thread. I propose Empire: The Return of the Governmental Leader!

We do need a new title. Any other suggestions/votes for suggestions?

EMPIRE! *The* Game III: Raaneki Drift
EMPIRE! *The* Game III: Of The People, By The People, For The People
EMPIRE! *The* Game III: Assassin's 1337
EMPIRE! *The* Game III: Breaking Dawn League

One of these things is not like the others!
Figured at this point I might as well leave out "community world-building" as that's pretty obvious here, plus it leaves more subtitle room. Though if the subtitle is short enough, I'll just put the full title in.

While it's on my mind, Morph, is there any reason why you started this game? Is there any plans to use it as a campaign world at all, or just a game you wanted to try out?

You seem to assume those are mutually exclusive.

Currently, the only plans to use it as a campaign world are for side-adventures that are part of the game. Like how the Doomkhan, Shïnguard, Ashmar High Priest, Ex-Doge and Firelord Volcano King are going all Expendables this round (if any of them reply to my previous question of when they are available). Or the one I had talked with Silverbit about regarding something he thought of a few rounds ago, but there was too little time and not enough mechanical clarity yet for it.

The game originally started as a spin-off of Conquest, a game I was a player in. In Conquest, I introduced Wombat as a player and formed an alliance with him, Logic and some others against QuintonBeck and another player who were invading Logic's country, but it never got off the ground because the game died before we could really get going. 'Tis why I had expected Quinton to invade in Empire as well--playstyles usually stay similar, but even moreso because he never got the chance to finish what he started in Conquest.

As a player, I also introduced action-folding and exploration, two things that have become great components of Empire, as well as starting our alliance thread for easier group communication. Some of my plans sadly fell through because a few of the players wanted to be isolationist--which is crazy in a social game, though for a short bit of time to build up your nation to be less involved is somewhat reasonable and very understandable.

I wanted to recreate that experience and improve upon it, especially as I'm currently applying at the Internation Game Architecture and Design school in Breda, the Netherlands. I wish to study there to become a game designer, because it's one of the two job things I've wanted to do all my life, even though as a child I never knew you could study for it (back then there were no schools, and the IGAD didn't exist when I went for my double major in Philosophy and Psychology at a university here).

In light of this drive for improvement, I decided to give it a more personal element in the form of the players playing rulers and their families, rather than countries. It gives an extra layer, more RP, and gives more flavour and personal involvement to the world-building aspect of the game. I was inspired in the mechanics for that partly by Crusader Kings II, in which you play a ruler and their family, though it is in a fixed setting (Medieval Europe, North Africa and the Middle East), but fluff is easily altered with some creative work. The mechanics are a little harder to flesh out, mainly because the fluff is all left to the players with as little as possible decided by me--except sometimes an NPC, terrain feature, religion or resource--and that is partly why the mechanics are still evolving.

The other reason is that the mechanics we started with were literally shaken out of my sleeve in under an hour.

I really enjoy world-building, as evidenced by my huge world of Ymaggion (sadly incomplete due to procrastination), but doing it with a group of people with the same goal in mind: that of a great world, highly enjoyable and very immersive, that was something I wanted to do even more, because doing something like that together is something I love seeing. It's like working with a great team, though in this case the members of the team are also working against one another at times in light of it being a game, and not just purely world-building. To me, as a GM, the title is very deliberate, as it is a community thing first, world-building second, game third.

You could say you're my guinea pigs to test my mechanical skills in light of my plans for my future, except I've also given you super powers to do whatever you will with.

And I can't wait to see what more will come out of that.



And if anyone ever starts up a game like this, they better invite me, because I so badly want to drive some enemies before me, and hear the lamentation of their goats.

Seriously, I am still amused by so many players having goats.

[Rain Dragon]

Due to interest waning, I'm likely at some point leaving or taking a hiatus...

But before that happens, if I lose, Eyrecradia's gonna go out fighting, and make an imprint in the thin metal sheet that is legend!

Bleargh!

Chaos is a ladder.

Don't you dare quote that worm Baelish at me! He's one of my most hated GoT characters!

Baelish is one of my /favourite/ GoT characters!

After the past two days? I got myself a contingency plan.

I'm shocked you did not already have one. In fact, I recommend you get a contingency plan for your contingency plan.

Or, y'know, read the books.
EMPIRE! *The* Game III: Assassin's 1337

I admit I also am biased and enjoyed the books /so/ much more.

I... Also have a vote, though '1337' should be replaced with something else in 1337 I think. Or maybe a war theme. Or knives. Actually, I don't know.

[Lord_Burch]

So, Morph, you were serious when you said 26 has four units of Goats(Great)? Can I at least choose what kind of goats?

[Rain Dragon]

So, Morph, you were serious when you said 26 has four units of Goats(Great)? Can I at least choose what kind of goats?

Black goats [Great]
White goats [Great]
Skinny goats [Great]
Fat goats [Great]

On a serious note though I remember almost white text in the aforementioned post saying 'just kidding'.

[Lord_Burch]

Black goats [Great]
White goats [Great]
Skinny goats [Great]
Fat goats [Great]

On a serious note though I remember almost white text in the aforementioned post saying 'just kidding'.

Seriously? I need to check for white text on every post at this point. Which is a pain on a tablet. But hey, if you've every read the Inheritance cycle, those Feldnoust (something like that?) are pretty cool, for goats.

[Elemental]

EMPIRE! *The* Game III: Of The People, By The People, For The People

Hmm... It has some potential. But given the fact that we have few democratic states, I would reword it as: Of The People, By The People, For The King, or something along those lines.