Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

[Coidzor]

Continuation of above: I still have decided not to be in touch with her anymore. But I couldn't just leave it like that, it felt unfinished and was driving me crazy. So I wrote her a message explaining that I don't plan to communicate with her anymore because of the emotional distance that has grown between us. I wasn't brave enough though so I sent it after I was certain she would be asleep. She'll see it in the morning, or not, and I don't exactly care how it goes anymore. This is so crappy.

I'm also here to ask, how do people deal with losing friends? I've had quite a few that I have lost over the years just due to losing contact bit by bit, but I don't really deal with it. It's just a regret that I can't forget about. How do others cope with losing friends?

There's not much to be gained from face to face "I'm breaking off all contact now" kinds of messages, I suppose, or at least not in the sort of context you've presented.

Hmm. Depends on how I lost 'em. If they went bat**** crazy, then I don't feel nearly as much regret. If we just grew apart gradually and I was never all that close to them, I barely notice, I suppose, since if I was activley caring to keep in touch with them I'd usually put effort into keeping in contact. Sometimes if I'm reminded of them I'll experience a pang of regret that I don't really talk to them anymjore.

If I feel like I'm getting stonewalled, then I get annoyed and then angry and it basically becomes like I lose them to a fight anyway. And, fights, well, part of it depends on how stupid the crap reason for the fight was that lead to such an untoward series of events as the dissolution of a friendship. If it's really stupid and senseless, then I feel sad that I lost a friend over trivial BS and also sad that they had never actually felt close enough to me to actually address me directly until things reached explodium levels of tension.

But... at it's worst, I suppose it's just moping for a handful of days and then getting on with things.

[dehro]

what Coidzor said.

[Haluesen]

I know that saying it in the way I did wasn't the best, I'm not going to deny that. I did try to at least explain exactly what my thought process here was to her, but either way I didn't know what else to do. I'm pretty sure that even after weeks of thinking it over that it was primarily an emotional reaction. We went from a couple to practically strangers over the course of a few months, and I don't think I need to explain how much that can hurt. Still...if she didn't want us to be friends in the first place, I'd rather know from the get go rather than be given false hope. And if she did really want to stay friends, then she hasn't shown that very well at all. She hasn't responded to the message, which could mean a lot of things. Hopefully it means she accepts my "choice", for lack of a proper way to put it, and we can both put everything behind us. It still means taking someone that I've known and cared about for years and just acting like none of it mattered.

Anyway, I hope you're right Coidz. I've been moping and brooding over this for far too long now, and I'd rather just be able to get over it and go on with life. It just has been a case of easier said than done so far. All the friends I have lost so far have been just a slow drifting away, though none of them have been friends that I wasn't at least a little close to. But she was my girlfriend, and I cared a lot about her. It just feels like it's gonna hurt a bit longer than those other friends lost.

[FinnLassie]

Hal, I've been in the "lovers to strangers" situation a few times in my dating past, and let me tell you: you'll get over it. Just stay positive and remember there's many more things in your life to enjoy.

[Haluesen]

I do agree Finny; I mean, unlike how some are this isn't making me give up on life, or love. Breaking up with her sucked but I accepted it and feel like I have been coping with it fairly well. Losing her as a friend though...it feels like that time we had never really mattered. Like I would have been just as well without knowing her.

But I'm not ungrateful for what you're saying. Thank you. I do plan to keep enjoying life. It just sucks that now, she's really fully gone. I'll get better, you're all right. I just hope it's soon.

[Coidzor]

I know that saying it in the way I did wasn't the best, I'm not going to deny that. I did try to at least explain exactly what my thought process here was to her, but either way I didn't know what else to do. I'm pretty sure that even after weeks of thinking it over that it was primarily an emotional reaction. We went from a couple to practically strangers over the course of a few months, and I don't think I need to explain how much that can hurt. Still...if she didn't want us to be friends in the first place, I'd rather know from the get go rather than be given false hope. And if she did really want to stay friends, then she hasn't shown that very well at all. She hasn't responded to the message, which could mean a lot of things. Hopefully it means she accepts my "choice", for lack of a proper way to put it, and we can both put everything behind us. It still means taking someone that I've known and cared about for years and just acting like none of it mattered.

It's hard to act rightly or bestly when it comes to this sort of interpersonal muck. The most that we can really strive for and hope to achieve is avoiding being actively wrong or harmful. And yeah, losing someone like that hurts. Eventually though, the time will pass and you'll experience others and get on with life and instead of someone you know who has cut you out, now she'll just be somebody that you used to know. And once you no longer know who the person is, just who they were, long ago, it's ...better.

I still have pangs of memory and bitter regret over my ex-fiance, but who she is now... I don't know that person and I accept that I really shouldn't. I imagine that at least part of the regret I feel is bundled up with how I left school because of her and things have progressed out of my hands so that I'm never going back to my old school, which has completely altered my worldview and life trajectory, I tell you what. The pain is much, much rarer now and basically has to be specifically triggered by something, and I can think on some of the good memories without quite so much bittersweetness, like the number of foods I enjoy because of being introduced to them by her or that I have a fondness for because of the associations made while with her.

But yeah... unless the fading off is mutual, a clean break is better, though, of course, the hurt is the more intense for its brevity on the shorter path.

Anyway, I hope you're right Coidz. I've been moping and brooding over this for far too long now, and I'd rather just be able to get over it and go on with life. It just has been a case of easier said than done so far. All the friends I have lost so far have been just a slow drifting away, though none of them have been friends that I wasn't at least a little close to. But she was my girlfriend, and I cared a lot about her. It just feels like it's gonna hurt a bit longer than those other friends lost.

Losing a partner is always going to be worse than a friend, aye. Sadly the best advice I have to give is still the hardest to follow, or at least, it's been the hardest to follow for me. Which mostly boils down to staying out of the darkest parts of the pit by going out of the house, socializing with as many people as possible to reinforce and then expand your social circles, meeting new people where possible, keeping yourself busy and healthy rather than wasting away in doldrums, and then maybe getting yourself happy with the baseline chassis of your being, then you'll be ready to knock the socks off of someone or have them knock your socks off.

[Haluesen]

It's hard to act rightly or bestly when it comes to this sort of interpersonal muck. The most that we can really strive for and hope to achieve is avoiding being actively wrong or harmful. And yeah, losing someone like that hurts. Eventually though, the time will pass and you'll experience others and get on with life and instead of someone you know who has cut you out, now she'll just be somebody that you used to know. And once you no longer know who the person is, just who they were, long ago, it's ...better.

I still have pangs of memory and bitter regret over my ex-fiance, but who she is now... I don't know that person and I accept that I really shouldn't. I imagine that at least part of the regret I feel is bundled up with how I left school because of her and things have progressed out of my hands so that I'm never going back to my old school, which has completely altered my worldview and life trajectory, I tell you what. The pain is much, much rarer now and basically has to be specifically triggered by something, and I can think on some of the good memories without quite so much bittersweetness, like the number of foods I enjoy because of being introduced to them by her or that I have a fondness for because of the associations made while with her.

But yeah... unless the fading off is mutual, a clean break is better, though, of course, the hurt is the more intense for its brevity on the shorter path.

I wonder if that really is the case with her...did she really change so much over a few months that we don't recognize each other now? I can't really tell. I just hope I wasn't directly hurtful towards her. What I wrote was gonna be painful no matter what, but I just hope I kept whatever hurt I might have caused to a minimal. Or maybe to her it'll just be a confirmation, maybe it'll be a relief. I don't know, but if so maybe that would be better.

Sounds like you had it pretty rough though. I'm glad that you can look at that all differently now. I still feel a lot of bitterness, like the time with her basically amounted to nothing now. But who knows, maybe it'll feel different in the future too.

Youtube is having some trouble (or my laptop is having trouble with it), so I haven't gotten to hear that second one yet. But I like that first song. It makes some sense.

Losing a partner is always going to be worse than a friend, aye. Sadly the best advice I have to give is still the hardest to follow, or at least, it's been the hardest to follow for me. Which mostly boils down to staying out of the darkest parts of the pit by going out of the house, socializing with as many people as possible to reinforce and then expand your social circles, meeting new people where possible, keeping yourself busy and healthy rather than wasting away in doldrums, and then maybe getting yourself happy with the baseline chassis of your being, then you'll be ready to knock the socks off of someone or have them knock your socks off.

Heh, at the moment that is fairly difficult. It's hard to get around to much in this little valley I live in. But I'm aiming for the Job Corps, to move out somewhere new and hopefully learn more, do more, and I know then I'll meet more people out there. A lot of what I read lately talks about the same advice, growing as a person and being happy with myself then worrying about trying romance again. I'll just have to see how it works.

[Ursus the Grim]

So, here I am again.

My wife of 2.5 years has finally admitted she isn't in love with me anymore, and doesn't have the energy or desire to try to reconnect. Its a long story, one that I'd happily cry on somebody's shoulder about, but not the point of my post.

Spoiler: Show Spoiler?

Show

The point of my post is that I've just turned 25. We've been married for 2.5 years, but we've been together since we were 17 years old, and good, likely even best friends since 11 or 12.

She was my first girlfriend, and I was determined to make it work. We've lived so much of our lives together, that I don't know if I know how to live single. I find myself easily addicted to things, and so I'm afraid that I'll tumble into another relationship before I've grown enough to make it work.

I also still have that old 'don't date if you wouldn't marry' mindset.

I still love her. I think, though, that deep down, this has been a long time coming. Perhaps I fell out of love with her too, somewhere along the way, and have just been doing this out of a sense of stubborness and obligation. We've seen so many marriages fail, so many bitter couples, and made so many promises to one another. . . .

Still, I was content in our relationship. We'd be intimate when the mood struck us (which apparently wasn't enough). We'd go out to dinner places. She'd watch her shows while I wrote or played video games. We'd inquire into how each person's day was. We'd ritualized good night kissing. . . .

Now that's gone. She used her pet name and it almost set me on the path to anger. I had to stop myself from telling her I loved her when she left for work this morning (I had taken a mental health day).

Our lease isn't up until June, and frankly, though I have a pretty good job, I'm in too much debt to be sure I can get my own place, much less furnish it. I know she'd want to help, but I felt like a burden at many points when we were married. I won't accept much of it once we separate.

I don't know what I wanted out of this post.

Perhaps, advice? We've already worked out sleeping arrangements, but we've yet to take off the rings or even file for anything yet. We have a second appointment with a counselor, but that's going to be a reaffirmation of our intention to break off the marriage and attempt to seek help with the transition.

Anything on how to redevelop myself as an individual moving forward? How long I should wait before flirting to make sure I'm not just looking to rebound? Anything? Breaking the news to family?

I'm lost.

[Crow]

There will always be a part of you that still loves that person, even after you are split up. That is normal. Sounds like you guys have hit that 7-year itch point. Happens to many. Good luck and I hope you guys can figure a way through.

But if you guys do end up splitting, look at it this way: You've gotten your first "practice" marriage out of the way. When you move on, you'll be better equipped to find the right partner and make it work in the next one.

[Ursus the Grim]

There will always be a part of you that still loves that person, even after you are split up. That is normal. Sounds like you guys have hit that 7-year itch point. Happens to many. Good luck and I hope you guys can figure a way through.

But if you guys do end up splitting, look at it this way: You've gotten your first "practice" marriage out of the way. When you move on, you'll be better equipped to find the right partner and make it work in the next one.

That's great to hear.

I still wonder what happened to my old crushes, and those were entirely one-sided boyhood crushes. How does one get over a marriage? How do people do that?

How do you beat the seven-year itch, then? I don't want to go into a relationship expecting it to fail.

I guess thats a real rhetorical question.

[Crow]

That's great to hear.

I still wonder what happened to my old crushes, and those were entirely one-sided boyhood crushes. How does one get over a marriage? How do people do that?

How do you beat the seven-year itch, then? I don't want to go into a relationship expecting it to fail.

I guess thats a real rhetorical question.

If a marriage ends and it wasn't your choice, you just...get over it. It has happened, and your life won't improve until you move on. So you make the decision to make the most of what you have left, and learn from your mistakes.

As far as how to beat it: It all depends. Why has she stopped loving you? She might have a laundry list of reasons, or she might say something like "I just don't feel In Love with you anymore." If it's the first, then you have a lot of work to do, and probably trust to rebuild. If it's the second, you have to realize that the problem isn't likely YOU. You have to gut it out, tell them that you aren't ready to believe that, but you want to give them the space they want right now, and then give that person their space to work it out on their own. Anything you do in the second situation to "make" them realize that they still love you will have the opposite effect. Give them their space, let them live their life on their own for a while. That is what they want and need (unless there is someone else in the picture, but that is another story). If you guys live together, take the burden upon yourself to not be there when they are. Give them all the space they need. Take the time to go out and do fun things by yourself or with friends. Not maliciously of course. Doing this stuff will help you feel better, and also prepare you for life after if things don't improve. Give them space and accept that part of being a loving partner is NOT being there, when the situation demands it.

And as I said, if it does end; then it ends. When you meet your next wife and look back, you will be happy for the lessons you learned in your "practice marriage".

[Aedilred]

As far as how to beat it: It all depends. Why has she stopped loving you? She might have a laundry list of reasons, or she might say something like "I just don't feel In Love with you anymore." If it's the first, then you have a lot of work to do, and probably trust to rebuild. If it's the second, you have to realize that the problem isn't likely YOU.

As someone who suffers from what appear to be many of the same "conditions" as you, Ursus (inability to get over things, tendency to project too much emotional importance and long-term thinking on early stages of relationships, etc.) I have to second Crow's advice for the most part. I mean, it sucks to hear, but it sucks anyway, so we might as well be honest about it. With relation to the above specifically, however, I would introduce a note of caution which is that it's not always clear even to the other party why things have gone wrong.

A lot of people (I would venture the vast majority) have a tendency to try to rationalise decisions which are fundamentally emotional and try to justify the second type ("I don't love you any more") as the first ("here's what you're doing wrong") because making an important decision without "good reason" seems stupid (of course, "I don't love you any more" is a perfectly valid reason, but it doesn't always seem like it). I've been caught out by this badly before and enthusiastically ticked off what looked like a laundry list of personal failings only to find that in fact the problem had always been that she was no longer in love with me and that whole experience just strung things out and made everything worse for everyone (it did get me to sort out a lot of issues that were to my betterment anyway, to be fair, but I didn't gain any satisfaction from having done so).

So I think it's important both to try to get her to be honest with herself and with you about what the problem is, and use your own judgment, rather than necessarily taking the initial explanation at face value. Especially if the given reasons are a bit vague and woolly and it sounds like she's trying to justify it to herself, it's worth seriously considering whether that's really the problem or whether it's something fundamental.

[Ursus the Grim]

As someone who suffers from what appear to be many of the same "conditions" as you, Ursus (inability to get over things, tendency to project too much emotional importance and long-term thinking on early stages of relationships, etc.) I have to second Crow's advice for the most part. I mean, it sucks to hear, but it sucks anyway, so we might as well be honest about it. With relation to the above specifically, however, I would introduce a note of caution which is that it's not always clear even to the other party why things have gone wrong.

A lot of people (I would venture the vast majority) have a tendency to try to rationalise decisions which are fundamentally emotional and try to justify the second type ("I don't love you any more") as the first ("here's what you're doing wrong") because making an important decision without "good reason" seems stupid (of course, "I don't love you any more" is a perfectly valid reason, but it doesn't always seem like it). I've been caught out by this badly before and enthusiastically ticked off what looked like a laundry list of personal failings only to find that in fact the problem had always been that she was no longer in love with me and that whole experience just strung things out and made everything worse for everyone (it did get me to sort out a lot of issues that were to my betterment anyway, to be fair, but I didn't gain any satisfaction from having done so).

So I think it's important both to try to get her to be honest with herself and with you about what the problem is, and use your own judgment, rather than necessarily taking the initial explanation at face value. Especially if the given reasons are a bit vague and woolly and it sounds like she's trying to justify it to herself, it's worth seriously considering whether that's really the problem or whether it's something fundamental.

Well, the problem is essentially, at least as explained, that I was not affectionate enough. Whether I was or not is not up for debate, its how she says she felt. I thought we had scattered incidents where I was stressed and distant, but apparently for her its been a continuous trend. I was happy, I was content, but she spent much of the time over the last few months/year? weeping in silence.

My problem is moving forward. I think we want to try to 'just be friends' but I also want to be definitive about the boundaries of our relationship. We might fall back in love with one another, but would that really be a rekindled romance or would we just be. . . friends with benefits?

Also I have no friends. Had some in high school, but at least at this point the closest relations I have are on her side of things or 8 hours away. I want to get out to a gaming shop to socialize, but that's a terrible place to try and strike up a romance once that time comes.

I've no experience with bars or clubbing either, so don't recommend those.

I don't know. Appreciate the advice, volks.

[Crow]

Well, the problem is essentially, at least as explained, that I was not affectionate enough. Whether I was or not is not up for debate, its how she says she felt. I thought we had scattered incidents where I was stressed and distant, but apparently for her its been a continuous trend. I was happy, I was content, but she spent much of the time over the last few months/year? weeping in silence.

Maybe you guys just need to start dating again. Date night is really good for marriages.

[Jon_Dahl]

I'm having a sudden crisis here. It just jumped out of nowhere.

As I wrote earlier, my Brazilian gf was planning to come to see me in Europe. It failed because of the lack of money and her mom lost her job. We were introduced to each other last April by our mutual friend, who has known us for years. He's a close friend to both of us. I told him about the situation, since I had already mentioned that my gf (his friend) was about to visit me. He suggested that I could help her financially and I thought it was a pretty good idea. Then he spoke with my gf.

That day my gf was upset with me for involving our friend into this situation, and I said that I respect the fact that she doesn't want to borrow money from me. I was absolutely calm about it, no problem.

Then one day my gf was feeling blue and I tried to cheer her up. It didn't work, and our time difference is fairly critical (6 hours) and I wanted her to feel fine, so when I went to sleep, I told our friend that my gf was feeling blue and he might try to talk with her. He did, and once again he mentioned the thing about me aiding her financially. My gf wasn't happy with me, but I just told her that I had asked him to cheer her up.

Later on my friend taught me Portuguese curses and bad words. He taught me that "pow" is very mild and cute, which I could use with my gf. I told my gf that "te amo pow" which is like "damn, I love you!" Then she started to complain and her tone was threatening and unclear, and I couldn't understand what was going on. She said that it's our friend's "thing" to talk like that and it's not mine. I didn't say anything about our friend.

Now she's been quiet and I told my friend that she's been pretty quiet lately. He spoke with her, and now my gf contacted me saying that I don't trust her, I don't really love her, the distance is too much for her and I lack initiative, I pretend that nothing bad has happened and this "way" of mine is not working. Then she got extremely angry when I said that I have to sleep because a work day tomorrow. This happened again, and she told me that her previous bf used to stay awake whole night before going to work just to comfort her. I said that I'm not him, so once again she got mad at me - very much so!

The situation is not helped by the fact that my gf gets all idiomatic and vague when she's upset and my Portuguese is not good enough to keep up with this sort of conversation.

What am I going to say when she comes hurling accusations at me this evening? Help?

[Chen]

One stop involving third parties in your relationships. Clearly its not working here.

Two the relationship, once again, seems pretty abusive. If you have a 6 hour time difference and you need to sleep before going to work the next day, its irrational for the person to say you should talk to her and comfort her because she's upset. The fact she says you dont love her and her tone can be "threatening and unclear" really doesn't bode well for this. Frankly it seems like this isn't a healthy relationship and it probably should be ended.

[Aedilred]

Being blunt about it, Jon, a lot of this sounds more than a little familiar.

[Philemonite]

Being blunt about it, Jon, a lot of this sounds more than a little familiar.

I agree. It's not severe as the last time, but it is going in that direction.

[dehro]

yeah... sorry to have to say this, but I agree with the others.. you're not painting a pretty picture, you really shouldn't go through a third party and it does sound like there are some serious issues with your relationship.

[Jay R]

I still wonder what happened to my old crushes, and those were entirely one-sided boyhood crushes. How does one get over a marriage? How do people do that?

How do you beat the seven-year itch, then? I don't want to go into a relationship expecting it to fail.

I guess thats a real rhetorical question.

Yes, you can get over a marriage. I got over an 18-year marriage, and am now happily married to my second wife. I have no idea how. As they said in Shakespeare in Love, "It's a mystery."

Never go into a relationship expecting it to fail. That's not your responsibility. Your job is to focus on making it work.

[Coidzor]

I'm having a sudden crisis here. It just jumped out of nowhere.

I think we know exactly where this crisis came from. I know you like the booty. I like the booty. Basically all of us like the booty. But crazy Brasilians are not the only source of the booty in the world. There are many perfectly fine booties possessed by women on continents other than South America.

As I wrote earlier, my Brazilian gf was planning to come to see me in Europe. It failed because of the lack of money and her mom lost her job. We were introduced to each other last April by our mutual friend, who has known us for years. He's a close friend to both of us. I told him about the situation, since I had already mentioned that my gf (his friend) was about to visit me. He suggested that I could help her financially and I thought it was a pretty good idea. Then he spoke with my gf.

So you call him your friend but he's going behind your back and is super important to your gf, arguably more so than you are. I suspect that this man is not really your friend here.

Indeed, I suspect he's just set you back up with the last psycho Brasilian lady again without telling you as a cruel joke.

That day my gf was upset with me for involving our friend into this situation, and I said that I respect the fact that she doesn't want to borrow money from me. I was absolutely calm about it, no problem.

Well, props to her for not just scamming you out of your money, I suppose.

Then one day my gf was feeling blue and I tried to cheer her up. It didn't work, and our time difference is fairly critical (6 hours) and I wanted her to feel fine, so when I went to sleep, I told our friend that my gf was feeling blue and he might try to talk with her. He did, and once again he mentioned the thing about me aiding her financially. My gf wasn't happy with me, but I just told her that I had asked him to cheer her up.

Again, this guy is not your friend here. His actions speak for themselves. And she's clearly not ready to date anyone if she just jumps straight to going berserk at you rather than trying to communicate.

Later on my friend taught me Portuguese curses and bad words. He taught me that "pow" is very mild and cute, which I could use with my gf. I told my gf that "te amo pow" which is like "damn, I love you!" Then she started to complain and her tone was threatening and unclear, and I couldn't understand what was going on. She said that it's our friend's "thing" to talk like that and it's not mine. I didn't say anything about our friend.

As this guy is not and has not been your friend in this, I would have taken those with a heavy heaping tablespoon of salt and run those by another party rather than invite Ms. Tempermental's wrath for Mr. Troll's amusement.

And that last line clearly speaks loads about the health and nature of their relationship not being on the up-and-up in terms of fidelity as well.

Now she's been quiet and I told my friend that she's been pretty quiet lately. He spoke with her, and now my gf contacted me saying that I don't trust her, I don't really love her, the distance is too much for her and I lack initiative, I pretend that nothing bad has happened and this "way" of mine is not working. Then she got extremely angry when I said that I have to sleep because a work day tomorrow. This happened again, and she told me that her previous bf used to stay awake whole night before going to work just to comfort her. I said that I'm not him, so once again she got mad at me - very much so!

And you didn't just break things off between Mr. Troll and Ms. Psycho? Bro, you need to go to counseling and learn how to seek out healthy women.

The situation is not helped by the fact that my gf gets all idiomatic and vague when she's upset and my Portuguese is not good enough to keep up with this sort of conversation.

Protip: Don't date someone with a language barrier if they're not willing to work with you. But generally just don't date someone with a language barrier that bad.

What am I going to say when she comes hurling accusations at me this evening? Help?

"Well, I'm sorry things appear to have self-destructed over here, but, goodbye, you and Mr. Troll can have one another as far as I am concerned and I wish the both of you the best with that."

[Knaight]

I think we know exactly where this crisis came from. I know you like the booty. I like the booty. Basically all of us like the booty. But crazy Brasilians are not the only source of the booty in the world. There are many perfectly fine booties possessed by women on continents other than South America.

Brazil is a nation with several distinct cultures, a fairly long history, etc. It could easily be any of those things and not "the booty" behind Jon Dahl's preferences.

[Philemonite]

Brazil is a nation with several distinct cultures, a fairly long history, etc. It could easily be any of those things and not "the booty" behind Jon Dahl's preferences.

Jon already said that loves everything about Brazil and he plans to move there eventually. That's why he is looking for a girlfriend that already lives there.

[FinnLassie]

While I can't say I agree with everything Coidzor has said (it is full of speculation), I agree with the overall sentiment and with others' opinions, that this relationship is not looking good and it seems like you're about to go down the same road you were in before.


Jon_Dahl, I understand that you wish to emigrate to Brazil at some point, and it's a brilliant thing, but... you honestly need to find a partner that is willing to a long distance relationship (or a relationship in general, I mean, your gals have turned out to be some hotpots) emotionally and financially, as well as work with your language and not mind if it isn't perfect.

You also need to stop using a third party in your relationships, no matter how much you are mutual friends or anything. You can ask for advice from your friends, but honestly, it's rather immature to ask someone else to talk to your gf when something's not smooth. If you two cannot work it out between yourselves, both parties in that relationship need to take a good long look in the mirror and ask themselves "how did we end up in this situation, and how to we fix it, for good or for worse?"

[Aedilred]

Brazil is a nation with several distinct cultures, a fairly long history, etc. It could easily be any of those things and not "the booty" behind Jon Dahl's preferences.

Even that, though, isn't, imo, a great reason to be so culturally selective in one's selection of partner. I mean, I love France; it has several fairly distinct cultures (no, really), a long history, I like and speak the language, and so on. But there seems a logical disconnexion between that and "I should find a French girlfriend". Expecting a partner to be a personal embodiment of everything you like about the place they're from not only seems unrealistic but also suggests that you're choosing them for what they are or where they're from rather than who they are, which is a terrible way to start a relationship. It also immediately excludes all sorts of people from other cultures who might well be more personally suitable.

Jon already said that loves everything about Brazil and he plans to move there eventually. That's why he is looking for a girlfriend that already lives there.

Again, though, this seems kind of backwards, and not least because "plan to move eventually" is really vague and indicates an indefinite period of super-LDR before you get to spend any meaningful time together. It's not even like a normal LDR where you might get to see each other once every few weeks. The early stage of relationships is usually when it's important to spend time together and starting on the basis that you don't see anything of each other until suddenly you move across the world and spend a lot of time together - I mean, it could work, but, again, being realistic about it, it doesn't seem likely. I'd have thought Jon would be better off looking for local people to date and hoping to find one who's prepared to make the move with him. If that doesn't work out, at least you've got a better chance of having a meaningful relationship in the meantime. In any case, trying to locate a Brazilian girlfriend on the basis of a future plan to move there at some point seems fundamentally flawed: better to try to find one once you're actually there and can meet and spend some time with them before committing to a relationship, surely?

Jon_Dahl, I understand that you wish to emigrate to Brazil at some point, and it's a brilliant thing, but... you honestly need to find a partner that is willing to a long distance relationship (or a relationship in general, I mean, your gals have turned out to be some hotpots) emotionally and financially, as well as work with your language and not mind if it isn't perfect.

Yup. At this point, the super-long-distance and the language barrier are known issues from your (Jon's) perspective if nothing else and any girlfriend you acquire in Brazil needs both to be made aware not only that they exist but precisely what that means for the relationship, and to be ok with that and prepared to work with it. No ifs or buts or trying to weasel out of it or pretend it's not a problem, because they are both inevitable issues and they need to be dealt with, not ignored. If your partner (and/or future partners) isn't prepared to deal with that, the whole business is likely to be a waste of your time, not to mention stressful and upsetting. The same goes for any other common features of such relationships that FinnLassie doesn't mention, but LDR and language barrier are big and important ones.

[Crow]

As an American, I can clearly see that the solution is to force her to learn english for your benefit.



What?

Not funny? Bad time for a joke?

Sorry...

[Jon_Dahl]

Thank you everyone for your support and advice! This is why I feel welcomed to write about my thoughts here because I always get some new perspective from you guys.

It seems that the relationship is over now. There's less than 1% chance for reconciliation at the moment. She doesn't want to even talk to me any more.

This relationship started out healthy, but for unknown reasons it took a slide. It's true that maybe my friend (the 3rd party) influenced it negatively, but he is my trusted friend and I refuse to see in fault in him. After all, he is the one who introduced us; without him, I wouldn't have even known the girl. I just trust him with my life, that's all.

There are many points being made about LDR and language barrier, but there's another point of view too.

In order to live and survive in Brazil, I need to learn the language. Additionally, it would be useful to have people there to welcome me with open arms, but I will concentrate on language here:
My ex-gf only wanted to speak in English, so it wasn't useful at all. It was even detrimental, to some extent, to speak a mishmash of Portuguese and English with an unforgivable amount of portuguesisms. Now that I had my first fully Portuguese relationship, I feel that I experienced a radical improvement in my command of Portuguese.

Having a foreign-language gf in Skype talking with you every day is amazingly beneficial to your language skills. Of course I could talk with my Brazilian friends, but concentrating on one person is the same as always having the same teacher. With your friends it's like always having a different substitute teacher.

I have found LDRs safisfactory when I can speak Brazilian Portuguese daily. Of course it didn't feel great when I got lost in the middle of the conversation, but at least I was starting to get the hang of it... Seriously! :)

All in all, it should never be right to tell someone that you love them and then that you don't love them out of the blue, whether you're in an LDR or not...

What can I do? I guess I will try both simultaneously this time: dating local women and hooking up with brasileiras in Skype.

[FinnLassie]

Have you considered finding Brasilians in your local proximity to hone your skills? There also must be a group online that provides Brasilian volunteers to discuss with others in Portuguese, or some of the sort. You don't need a gal for practice.

[Jon_Dahl]

Have you considered finding Brasilians in your local proximity to hone your skills? There also must be a group online that provides Brasilian volunteers to discuss with others in Portuguese, or some of the sort. You don't need a gal for practice.

I have a private teacher close to me, who is a native Brazilian, but he's expensive. I could go back to his classes, though, but he's going back to Brazil soon. There's no one here who is willing to talk to me and it seems that they have their own closed circuits. Have you ever considered that there might be people close to you who would be willing to pay you just to learn Finnish? (metal fans mostly) It's just that immigrants have their own little circles and outsiders are not welcomed...

There's a funny story behind the private teacher: his wife (a local woman) advertised herself as a Portuguese teacher, so I went to see her. I refused to speak any other language than Portuguese, and she wasn't able to keep up with me........ So she assigned her husband (the Brazilian) to teach me.... So you can see that it's a bit difficult, right?

An online community would be a good idea. It's something I could think about now that I have lost my #1 contact to the Portuguese language.

[Aedilred]

There are many points being made about LDR and language barrier, but there's another point of view too.

In order to live and survive in Brazil, I need to learn the language. Additionally, it would be useful to have people there to welcome me with open arms, but I will concentrate on language here:
My ex-gf only wanted to speak in English, so it wasn't useful at all. It was even detrimental, to some extent, to speak a mishmash of Portuguese and English with an unforgivable amount of portuguesisms. Now that I had my first fully Portuguese relationship, I feel that I experienced a radical improvement in my command of Portuguese.

Having a foreign-language gf in Skype talking with you every day is amazingly beneficial to your language skills. Of course I could talk with my Brazilian friends, but concentrating on one person is the same as always having the same teacher. With your friends it's like always having a different substitute teacher.

I have found LDRs safisfactory when I can speak Brazilian Portuguese daily. Of course it didn't feel great when I got lost in the middle of the conversation, but at least I was starting to get the hang of it... Seriously! :)

Well, I think this is also part of the problem. While I do understand what you're trying to do, you're looking for a penfriend/language tutor as well as a girlfriend, while they're presumably just looking for a boyfriend. That's putting extra pressure and responsibility on them on top of the attendant language barrier and long-distance nature of the relationship that already makes such a relationship difficult. While relationships do take a bit of work, they shouldn't (imo) be hard work. I've been in a long-distance relationship where for whatever reason we weren't able to talk to each other when we wanted, and that was stressful; the disparity in time zones will make that worse in your case. Then add in the factor that, for them, they know you're going to struggle to understand them and getting across what they're talking about is going to take a lot of effort. The relationship loses a lot of its restorative nature and starts to assume some of the characteristics of a chore, especially if they think their English is good enough that there's an easier way to do things and you're restricting communication to a language you find it harder to understand solely for your developmental benefit.

If you turn it round and look at it from their perspective, too, their desire to talk to you in English is no less reasonable than your desire to talk to them in Portuguese. If their English is better than your Portuguese, it makes communication easier. If their English is worse than your Portuguese, they're more in need of the practice. Insisting that they talk in Portuguese because it's good for you is treating your own desires and needs as more important than theirs. It's not unreasonable to expect and hope that a partner who speaks a language you're trying to learn will help you with that, but it shouldn't be a priority over their own needs in the relationship and if it starts getting in the way of the rest of the relationship then it's a problem. You don't want them to feel that your desire to learn Portuguese and move to Brazil is more important than they are and they're just a means to an end.

This doesn't excuse abusive behaviour on their part, of course, but the language barrier in your relationships - and your insistence on maintaining that language barrier, whether it's good for you or not - is I think actively destructive to those relationships.

All in all, it should never be right to tell someone that you love them and then that you don't love them out of the blue, whether you're in an LDR or not...

Well, that's circumstance/context/precise detail-dependent, I think. Nobody's under an obligation to fall or stay in love with anyone else and if you no longer love someone it's better just to be open about it than to try to pretend. On the other hand, it's not something to say lightly, or with malicious intent, and declaring love prematurely for "strategic" reasons is also bad.