Relationship Woes and Advice 25: Now with extra Valentine

[RoyVG]

RoyVG : (I've only read your last two or three posts so I may have missed some context). In any case, do take it as a definitive no. Then, you have three possibilities :

1) Get away.
2) Stay friends and forget all hope.
3) Stay friends and keep on loving her

Long story short: I fell in love, after half a year of Option 3 I finally got a definitive rejection, was devastated by it, decided to go with option 1 for indefinite time (still going as we speak), subscribed to a dating site, actually found an interesting girl, got into contact with her, we started talking a lot, and recently started developing feelings for her, told her and got another rejection. Both rejections involve trust issues and an ex-boyfriend that they now hate, the main difference is that the first girl used it as an excuse to hide the feelings she had for a different guy which turned her in a ticking timebomb.

Option 1 is almost flatout impossible at this point, we are both too much invested to let each other go like that. I don't feel burdened by my feelings for her, even when I'm talking to her. They always take a backseat when we are talking anyway, I just want to enjoy our friendship at those moments.

Option 2 most certainly is the most logical option in order to keep the friendship going in the most healthy way if option 1 is out, but it will also be the hardest to do because of the frequent interactions and the constant remindersof these feelings. I know I'm a very stubborn guy, so these feelings will take a looooong time to disappear, if ever.

Option 3 is maybe the least difficult to 'maintain' with a relatively high payoff if things work out. But as you said, it also involves the biggest risk and the biggest punishment if things go wrong. One small mistake can ruin the friendship for a long time.

Making a definitive choice is hard and I probably won't be able to make one anyday soon. The worst part is that will become increasingly more difficult as time moves on.

I just had a really deep conversation with this girl after she approached me on skype. Bottom line is that she has difficulty trusting people. I didn't ask where these trust issues come from, it is not my place to ask about that just yet. In the end she decided that she needed to be more open towards other people. I offered her a listening ear if she needed it, but I left any signs of 'I have feelings for you' out of it. It was a very good experience and I finally got a good chance to make her feel good about herself after she had done that to me a couple of times. This conversation has steered me into Option 3, so I'll likely still 'pursue her' but on a more platonic way.

Anyway, I really appreciate the help from everyone here, I think I'll stop hijacking this thread for a little while . Wish me luck and hopefully I won't be back .

[Seto]

Wish me luck

I sincerely do.

[Coidzor]

Both rejections involve trust issues and an ex-boyfriend that they now hate, the main difference is that the first girl used it as an excuse to hide the feelings she had for a different guy which turned her in a ticking timebomb.

Ugh. I'm sorry. I hate that. One's a completely different person who isn't even similar to their ex-boyfriend, but for whatever reason their raw, unbridled hatred for this mother ****er completely sours their interactions with one's self... after they've already decided that they kinda like a body.

Option 1 is almost flatout impossible at this point, we are both too much invested to let each other go like that. I don't feel burdened by my feelings for her, even when I'm talking to her. They always take a backseat when we are talking anyway, I just want to enjoy our friendship at those moments.

Do you feel tortuously lost in the void when she's unavailable for longer than usual or you feel in limbo while waiting to hear from her?

Generally though, best not to get that entangled with someone you primarily approached for romanto-sexual reasons, especially after they've rejected you. :/ Alas.

Option 2 most certainly is the most logical option in order to keep the friendship going in the most healthy way if option 1 is out, but it will also be the hardest to do because of the frequent interactions and the constant remindersof these feelings. I know I'm a very stubborn guy, so these feelings will take a looooong time to disappear, if ever.

Oh, even infrequent interactions can have some absence makes the heart grow fonder malarkey going on, unfortunately. Time is more of the healer than frequency or divestment, but divestment works with time a fair sight better, even if it's small divestments rather than the total divestment of the person.

Option 3 is maybe the least difficult to 'maintain' with a relatively high payoff if things work out. But as you said, it also involves the biggest risk and the biggest punishment if things go wrong. One small mistake can ruin the friendship for a long time.

Try forever. And waiting for Godot/being in a holding pattern for a girl... that's just not good for you, emotionally, even if it does eventually pay out in the form of a relationship with her.

Making a definitive choice is hard and I probably won't be able to make one anyday soon. The worst part is that will become increasingly more difficult as time moves on.

Yeeep. I thought thinking about it for a few days would help when I've encountered situations like this, and, no... It just makes it worse. One of those few situations where going with one's kneejerk gut reaction as to what is right rather than what one wants instead of weighing the consequences and what each choice would actually entail seems to be the way to do it.

I just had a really deep conversation with this girl after she approached me on skype. Bottom line is that she has difficulty trusting people. I didn't ask where these trust issues come from, it is not my place to ask about that just yet. In the end she decided that she needed to be more open towards other people.

If she doesn't trust you in the first place, then are you truly friends? You can't open up to someone without them opening up to you, at least to some extent, after all. Not and have it be something healthy, anyway.

I offered her a listening ear if she needed it, but I left any signs of 'I have feelings for you' out of it. It was a very good experience and I finally got a good chance to make her feel good about herself after she had done that to me a couple of times. This conversation has steered me into Option 3, so I'll likely still 'pursue her' but on a more platonic way.

If she doesn't trust you, then if she's actually telling the truth, she's going to be watching you and harboring hopes of eventually seducing her is going to complicate matters.

Good luck, though. From what I understand, you will need it, following your planned course of action.

[RoyVG]

I sincerely do.

Thank you

Ugh. I'm sorry. I hate that. One's a completely different person who isn't even similar to their ex-boyfriend, but for whatever reason their raw, unbridled hatred for this mother ****er completely sours their interactions with one's self... after they've already decided that they kinda like a body.

It's because of this I still don't feel ready to re-initiate a friendship with the first girl. She betrayed my trust and that is harder to forgive than the actual rejection. Everytime I see them being all happy-sappy together, it still feels like a small kick to the shins, extremely unpleasant and more importantly, unnecessary.

Do you feel tortuously lost in the void when she's unavailable for longer than usual or you feel in limbo while waiting to hear from her?

Generally though, best not to get that entangled with someone you primarily approached for romanto-sexual reasons, especially after they've rejected you. :/ Alas.

No, not really. I check her status online on Skype quite often, but I do that with everyone in my friendlist. I don't feel a special connection between the two of us because I have feeelings for her, and I'm not losing any sleep over it if I haven't spoken to her in days.

Oh, even infrequent interactions can have some absence makes the heart grow fonder malarkey going on, unfortunately. Time is more of the healer than frequency or divestment, but divestment works with time a fair sight better, even if it's small divestments rather than the total divestment of the person.

I'll keep that in mind.

Try forever. And waiting for Godot/being in a holding pattern for a girl... that's just not good for you, emotionally, even if it does eventually pay out in the form of a relationship with her.

I've been through that rollercoaster of emotions once. It makes you feel like 'Give me love or give me death!' during the times you feel the worst. I'm holding myself back from any romantic behaviour while talking to her.

Yeeep. I thought thinking about it for a few days would help when I've encountered situations like this, and, no... It just makes it worse. One of those few situations where going with one's kneejerk gut reaction as to what is right rather than what one wants instead of weighing the consequences and what each choice would actually entail seems to be the way to do it.

I already passed the 'gut reaction' stage, It's already too late for me to simply say no without weighing the consequences. I hope your situation worked out in the end.

If she doesn't trust you in the first place, then are you truly friends? You can't open up to someone without them opening up to you, at least to some extent, after all. Not and have it be something healthy, anyway.

Yesterday she said she already opened up to me more than to many other people and that she would continue to open up more. She even wanted me to help her get her out of this shell of distrust, simply by speaking to her more often and asking about her. While I first percieved this as a glimmer of hope, now that I have slept a night and read your comments it immediately put me back on my feet. It's these moments that are the hardest to deal with because they make you feel a bit too good considering the situation.

If she doesn't trust you, then if she's actually telling the truth, she's going to be watching you and harboring hopes of eventually seducing her is going to complicate matters.

If we both start out lying to each other, then where will the truth start? I know I'm way too optimistic in my actions and opening up to people. My trust has been tested quite a bit, by my closest friends and strangers alike. It's a short of a miracle I'm still walking around today.

Good luck, though. From what I understand, you will need it, following your planned course of action.

Thank you. I appreciate your concern and will keep it in mind.

[Driderman]

Alright, time for a bit of venting of my own.

I was a wild guy until I met my wife and we kinda settled down together. She was pretty young when we met and in the beginning she was pretty controlling, which in part was fair and in part was annoying. Gradually, we adapted to one another and became a happy and well functioning couple. Then at some point, we bought an apartment together (based on her suggestion) and later got married (partly her suggestion as well although I was in the consideration stage and she kinda jumped the gun on me). We also got a dog, or well she got a dog because that was the agreement.

So there we are, we own all these things that tie us down, anchor us to a normal life with a normal schedule and now she wants an open relationship, which we discussed the possibility of negotiating a long time ago if it seemed "necessary", and she wants this not necessarily because she wants to have sex with other, but because she wants to be free to go have all those misadventures and do the very same stupid things that she stopped me from doing. Barring that, we're probably splitting up. So basically, our relationship is more or less going down the drain because my wife is unhappy with me becoming the person she wanted me to be

[Coidzor]

Alright, time for a bit of venting of my own.

I was a wild guy until I met my wife and we kinda settled down together. She was pretty young when we met and in the beginning she was pretty controlling, which in part was fair and in part was annoying. Gradually, we adapted to one another and became a happy and well functioning couple. Then at some point, we bought an apartment together (based on her suggestion) and later got married (partly her suggestion as well although I was in the consideration stage and she kinda jumped the gun on me). We also got a dog, or well she got a dog because that was the agreement.

So there we are, we own all these things that tie us down, anchor us to a normal life with a normal schedule and now she wants an open relationship, which we discussed the possibility of negotiating a long time ago if it seemed "necessary", and she wants this not necessarily because she wants to have sex with other, but because she wants to be free to go have all those misadventures and do the very same stupid things that she stopped me from doing. Barring that, we're probably splitting up. So basically, our relationship is more or less going down the drain because my wife is unhappy with me becoming the person she wanted me to be

Sounds a little like you may have just been rolling over and doing whatever she wanted rather than having an equal voice in your relationship from how you put it forth here. And maybe you need to show her that you still have some passion and feeling in your blood and bones.

Though, at this point it sounds like you need to look into relationship counseling, now, whichever way this ends up going.

I already passed the 'gut reaction' stage, It's already too late for me to simply say no without weighing the consequences. I hope your situation worked out in the end.

We'll see if I ever get there.

Not sure what else to say to the rest though, other than to be careful and remember to take care of yourself first and foremost.

[Grytorm]

Hello again internet people. How have you been? Well I am here to ask a question. Again. First thank you for the last time you gave advice. I am thinking of mentioning it to her again just to try and get a clear rejection.

But what I wanted to actually say today. Well I have another crush, I have several usually. Because I am lonely interact weirdly with friendship. The crush is a TA in a class I am in. I talk to her somewhat often about trivia and the class. and the teacher likes me. She laughs a lot I guess. I do recognize it is not good interaction window to start a relationship. But today I talked about things slightly less related to class, asked about what classes she was taking.

Thank you for any advice.

[Crow]

Hello again internet people. How have you been? Well I am here to ask a question. Again. First thank you for the last time you gave advice. I am thinking of mentioning it to her again just to try and get a clear rejection.

But what I wanted to actually say today. Well I have another crush, I have several usually. Because I am lonely interact weirdly with friendship. The crush is a TA in a class I am in. I talk to her somewhat often about trivia and the class. and the teacher likes me. She laughs a lot I guess. I do recognize it is not good interaction window to start a relationship. But today I talked about things slightly less related to class, asked about what classes she was taking.

Thank you for any advice.

Not sure what you're asking for here, but I'll throw this out;

Keep up the friendly conversation, get to know her. Don't do anything more than that, otherwise things might become weird if it doesn't work out. Wait until you'll be leaving that class at the end of the semester, and if you're still interested and you guys are getting on well, ask her out then.

[RoyVG]

Hello again internet people. How have you been? Well I am here to ask a question. Again. First thank you for the last time you gave advice. I am thinking of mentioning it to her again just to try and get a clear rejection.

But what I wanted to actually say today. Well I have another crush, I have several usually. Because I am lonely interact weirdly with friendship. The crush is a TA in a class I am in. I talk to her somewhat often about trivia and the class. and the teacher likes me. She laughs a lot I guess. I do recognize it is not good interaction window to start a relationship. But today I talked about things slightly less related to class, asked about what classes she was taking.

Thank you for any advice.

In terms of the first girl, it would be a good thing to get a straight answer from her for your sake, but don't go too far in how you are going to ask it. Ask it in between the lines, don't use it to start a conversation. She is your friend, right? And you want to keep it that way, correct? Then make sure you are both comfortable, and then ask her a bit casually. If you are emotionally very invested in her, make sure you can take the blow and continue the conversation afterwards, or pitch it all the way at the end of a conversation, that way you both don't have to stay in such an awkward situation for long. Her first reaction was kind of a big hint, so don't get your hopes up.

In terms of the TA, do as Crow says. Wait until closely to the end, while trying to keep the conversations casual.

[Grytorm]

Thank you for the advice. Arguably I am not really asking anything. Just trying to share and feel more confident. Or seek reassurance that I am not doing anything wrong. Only annoying thing is that I have another term with her as TA coming up because I like the Psych sequence.

[-Sentinel-]

I have a family-related problem that may be inappropriate for this forum. Can an advice giver shoot me a PM?

I don't intend to go into too many of the ugly details, though a trigger warning may still be in order. The problem involves dealing with my feelings for a beloved relative who, I just learned, took a terrible secret to the grave that will forever mar my opinion of him.

[Coidzor]

I have a family-related problem that may be inappropriate for this forum. Can an advice giver shoot me a PM?

I don't intend to go into too many of the ugly details, though a trigger warning may still be in order. The problem involves dealing with my feelings for a beloved relative who, I just learned, took a terrible secret to the grave that will forever mar my opinion of him.

I'm sorry.

Thank you for the advice. Arguably I am not really asking anything. Just trying to share and feel more confident. Or seek reassurance that I am not doing anything wrong. Only annoying thing is that I have another term with her as TA coming up because I like the Psych sequence.

Tricky. Honestly I don't remember the ethics of dealing with TAs, though. Definitely seems better to not stew over it for another semester, though, but no need to force the issue either.

[Dazhbug]

Booze reveals all, once again. Still not over her. Gods ducking dammit.

[Cyber Punk]

Booze reveals all, once again. Still not over her. Gods ducking dammit.

I'm not clear (at all) on the details, but I can say with absolute certainty that I know exactly how you feel.

There's a girl I used to talk to and be friendly with, but anytime I got drunk, I'd start 'declaring my love'. It took not talking to the girl at all for a year to cure that. I told her beforehand exactly why, and she understood completely.

Now, we're back to being friends, but I've definitely moved on.

Your circumstances may be different, though. I didn't exactly get to see this girl everyday.

[golentan]

So, I've already told my girlfriend about this, but the more I think about it the angrier I get at the implications...

Over the last couple weeks, I've been giving someone I thought was being friendly rides to and from a group therapy deal. We talked about a bunch of stuff in the car, I was hoping I was making a new friend, I invite her over to hang out over this past weekend.

She treated the invitation as asking her on a date. Using that terminology. With some implication that other things might happen as a result of it. With a whole host of other implications thrown in the mix (because she's an escort).

The reason this is so upsetting, is I had been very clear that I have a girlfriend, and am monogamous. I know about polyamory, I even tried a poly relationship once, not for me. I'm a one girl/boy kind of guy, and we had talked about my relationship as one of the topics that came up during carpooling.

She knew that she was asking me to cheat. She knew that I am absolutely against that idea, or she should have if she was paying any attention. I thought we were being friendly, but she thought we were flirting. I wanted to hang out as friends, and she...

I'm so angry about the implicit assumptions on my character, I'm so mad that I let myself get played like that. At least I found out what her intentions were before she showed up at my home, or I gave her my address.

[Anarion]

So, I've already told my girlfriend about this, but the more I think about it the angrier I get at the implications...

Over the last couple weeks, I've been giving someone I thought was being friendly rides to and from a group therapy deal. We talked about a bunch of stuff in the car, I was hoping I was making a new friend, I invite her over to hang out over this past weekend.

She treated the invitation as asking her on a date. Using that terminology. With some implication that other things might happen as a result of it. With a whole host of other implications thrown in the mix (because she's an escort).

The reason this is so upsetting, is I had been very clear that I have a girlfriend, and am monogamous. I know about polyamory, I even tried a poly relationship once, not for me. I'm a one girl/boy kind of guy, and we had talked about my relationship as one of the topics that came up during carpooling.

She knew that she was asking me to cheat. She knew that I am absolutely against that idea, or she should have if she was paying any attention. I thought we were being friendly, but she thought we were flirting. I wanted to hang out as friends, and she...

I'm so angry about the implicit assumptions on my character, I'm so mad that I let myself get played like that. At least I found out what her intentions were before she showed up at my home, or I gave her my address.

That one's on her, not on you. Having a girlfriend doesn't mean you're forbidden from ever associating with people who might fall into a gender+orientation category that you'd be attracted to. The fact that she assumed any kind of activity together would be a date is her own world view and bad assumptions, not a reflection on your character.

[Coidzor]

So, I've already told my girlfriend about this, but the more I think about it the angrier I get at the implications...

What implications, exactly? Y'know, just so we're all clear on what you're mad about.

Over the last couple weeks, I've been giving someone I thought was being friendly rides to and from a group therapy deal. We talked about a bunch of stuff in the car, I was hoping I was making a new friend, I invite her over to hang out over this past weekend.

So what you're saying is that you don't know her that well and she doesn't know you that well.

She treated the invitation as asking her on a date. Using that terminology. With some implication that other things might happen as a result of it. With a whole host of other implications thrown in the mix (because she's an escort).

So did she ask you if this was a date or say something along the lines of "So, a date then?" or did she show up and act like you had invited her over to have sex with her when you were hanging out? Because the former doesn't really give you any justification for being mad at her for expressing her understanding of your offer and just means you needed to clarify your position, that's all.

The latter is more problematic, but should have been relatively easily addressed by saying no and explaining yourself. Anything she'd have tried after that would be getting into sexual harassment/assault territory and you're not mad at her over that stuff like you would be if that's what your understanding of what had transpired was.

And.... Nope, the latter didn't happen, apparently, because she's not been over to your place.

The reason this is so upsetting, is I had been very clear that I have a girlfriend, and am monogamous. I know about polyamory, I even tried a poly relationship once, not for me. I'm a one girl/boy kind of guy, and we had talked about my relationship as one of the topics that came up during carpooling.

OK? That's nice, but people who claim to be monogamous or who are monogamous still cheat all the time or have sidepieces without being poly or in open relationships.

She knew that she was asking me to cheat. She knew that I am absolutely against that idea, or she should have if she was paying any attention. I thought we were being friendly, but she thought we were flirting. I wanted to hang out as friends, and she...

It sounds like she thought you were asking her to help you cheat from what you've said. So either you're reading more into this than there is or you're not sharing something with us.

I'm so angry about the implicit assumptions on my character, I'm so mad that I let myself get played like that.

How, exactly, did you get played? Nothing you've said indicates that you've been played, other than, I suppose, for whatever given value of "played" you'd have been for helping this woman to her support sessions.

At least I found out what her intentions were before she showed up at my home, or I gave her my address.

So you've gone berserk over a woman thinking you were asking her to help you cheat because she's an escort and would naturally run into that perception of her when people know what she does for a living and also run into that sort of situation while working with some regularity?

That one's on her, not on you. Having a girlfriend doesn't mean you're forbidden from ever associating with people who might fall into a gender+orientation category that you'd be attracted to. The fact that she assumed any kind of activity together would be a date is her own world view and bad assumptions, not a reflection on your character.

Indeed.

Still.

She is an escort, they weren't already friends or particularly close or in a position where they'd really have an understanding of one another beyond what they'd say to one another.

Escorts deal with people who want something on the side somewhere between fairly regularly and all the damn time, and although I don't have any kind of figures in front of me right now, from what I recall a significant amount of their business is, in fact, with men who are currently in relationships with women.

Although I suppose it is a bit odd as well that she'd have agreed to anything given your non-professional association and without discussing payment upfront.

[dehro]

You seem to think she's an escort and therefore wouldn't do this for free, and she's looking for a punter.
It may well be that she's fairly desensitised towards what the boundaries are of a relationship, monogamous as it may be, and that she's simply after a night of fun with a friend, without putting much thought into long term consequences, because that's the sort of lifestyle/habit one falls into when one is active in that line of work.. and because sex doesn't mean much to her beyond the short term gratification.

this is a big pile of assumptions, but just as much as yours, I guess.
in my experience, sexuality is a complex matter even for someone who works in that field, so her view, motives and thoughts (or lack thereof) may be very different from what I percieve them to be... that said, I do believe she probably didn't think much of it.. whether that's because she's desensitised, uncaring, kinky, poli or cruel.. or whether there has been a miscomunication.

[golentan]

Okay, sorry, to be clear, the reason I feel worst about this is because I feel insulted because she thought that my monogamy was negotiable. I made an agreement with my SO, and so that's an insult to my honesty and loyalty. She knew about it, we had talked about my relationship concerns, we had talked about monogamy, and by asking if I was willing to violate that, she acted like my personal concept of honor is a front. There's a quote that means a lot to me: Honor is what you know about yourself, Reputation is what other people think they know about you. I care, deeply, about my honor, far more than my reputation, and this had come up as a major concern in a therapy session she was there for. She, having been presented with details about me that my own family doesn't know during group, skewered one of my pressure points that I had talked about in what was supposed to be a safe space.

The reason I feel I was used/played is because in an attempt to reach out for friendship and she reacted by assuming sexual interest, and I dismissed earlier concerns about whether she was flirting with me as me being paranoid. She came right out, and started talking about dating, and said she assumed basically it was a date. Now I'm reexamining all of the things she said to me, and I feel... unclean. I feel like the compliments she paid me may have had ulterior motives. I feel like her expressing sympathies over the difficulties of being long distance may have been... It throws the characterization of previous exchanges into question and I don't like what the answers look like. I feel like I quashed my doubts in favor of trust, and got repaid by treachery and an assumption of treachery on my part, and it makes me extremely... upset. It makes me feel like I was complicit, because I rejected the voice in my head that warned me this wasn't okay.

Whether or not she was considering charging me is secondary, but is a real secondary concern. I have enough trust issues with sexuality, and with having been used/told what I wanted to hear for material benefits before, throwing in a question about "is someone considering themselves a potential partner interested in solely a professional capacity" makes me squirm. If she was considering the possibility that she had enticed me into cheating for her own gain, if she wasn't interested in me as me, that's somehow a little more insulting, and plays into both of the above reasons that I feel insulted.

[Crow]

You're not going to like this advice:

If this is seriously such a big problem for you that you're having so much trouble you had to tell the playground about it; I'd hate to see you when you have a real problem. She wanted to have sex with you. You refused. End of story. Not everyone is so principled as you apparently are. Get used to it, get over it.

The way you're going on about this, I'm honestly convinced that you *do* want to have sex with her.

I mean, you refused. Your honor is intact, and she was feeling frisky. No big deal.

[golentan]

I wasn't looking for advice, I was just upset and wanted to vent.

[Lissou]

I'm sorry that you feel bad, golly. And I understand the anger. I've felt it very often. While I'm not monogamous, I too am very faithful, and people have been pretty much constantly taking my non-monogamy as a statement that everything goes, that I'm fine with cheating, that I owe them sex or whatever.

I don't know the woman in question. I can only assume that she's dealt with tons of people who cheat, and did not realise you were different.

I think it hurts you because you have strong feelings on people who do cheat and don't want to be compared to them. However, while I completely disagree with cheating, I'm aware that there are people who cheat who happen to be amazing people otherwise. So it might help to think about it and realised that the perceived insult is based on what YOU think of people who cheat, not on what she thinks about you, if that makes any sense to you.

When I was younger, despite how strongly I care about being faithful and respecting my commitments, I honestly thought that relationships where nobody cheated simply did not exist. I assumed at least one of my parents was cheating, possibly both. I assumed every loving couple had at least one incident. Now, I realise it might not always be the case. But it's still the case very, very often, because cheating is just so different from one relationship to the next. Yes, some people cheat knowingly, but then you also have people who cheat because they think what they are doing follows the rules of their particular relationship, but their partner happens to disagree.

I'm polyamorous, but what I've found out is that there are many, many people who consider themselves monogamous who don't think sex with someone else is cheating if there is no relationship, or if there are no feelings, or if it's only once, or if it's only a specific type of sex. And many of those people would be amazed to learn that their partner disagrees, because they just assume whatever they think is or isn't cheating is universal. But it's pretty much different for every person on the planet. I'm sure you and your partner consider some things fine that others would consider cheating (it's not far-fetched since I've known people who thought having friends of the opposite gender was cheating, or looking at the opposite gender, or watching porn, or masturbating at all, or ever thinking about someone other than your partner in a non-platonic way. I'm sure at least some of those are fine in your relationship).

Bottom line: to some people, sex with an escort isn't cheating, and is exactly the same as porn or camgirls, to name a few. She might not have thought you wanted to cheat. Or she might have. I have no idea. But even if she did, that doesn't mean she doesn't think you're a great person. She probably puts less value of fidelity than you do, but that doesn't mean she won't respect your relationship once she realises how you feel about it.

I'm not sure if I'm any help at all. In any case, you've got my sympathies and hugs and I hope you feel better soon about the whole thing. Hopefully the friendship isn't lost. If it is, then I hope you feel better about that soon, too.

[sktarq]

I don't know the woman in question. I can only assume that she's dealt with tons of people who cheat, and did not realise you were different.

QFT

You know your monogamy is serious for you. She deals in an industry rife with people saying one thing while then doing another.

Then again maybe she's a flirt who doesn't always know how or when to turn it off.

Or any of another million things.

But it isn't a big deal at the heart of it. That same implication is being given even worse every time a guy or gal with a wedding/engagement ring is hit on at a bar. . . and unless the bars your way are VERY different than the ones here...

[007_ctrl_room]

Alright, time for a bit of venting of my own.

I was a wild guy until I met my wife and we kinda settled down together. She was pretty young when we met and in the beginning she was pretty controlling, which in part was fair and in part was annoying. Gradually, we adapted to one another and became a happy and well functioning couple. Then at some point, we bought an apartment together (based on her suggestion) and later got married (partly her suggestion as well although I was in the consideration stage and she kinda jumped the gun on me). We also got a dog, or well she got a dog because that was the agreement.

So there we are, we own all these things that tie us down, anchor us to a normal life with a normal schedule and now she wants an open relationship, which we discussed the possibility of negotiating a long time ago if it seemed "necessary", and she wants this not necessarily because she wants to have sex with other, but because she wants to be free to go have all those misadventures and do the very same stupid things that she stopped me from doing. Barring that, we're probably splitting up. So basically, our relationship is more or less going down the drain because my wife is unhappy with me becoming the person she wanted me to be

Geesh, that's horrible - i'm sorry to hear that Driderman. Hopefully you guys can work this one out.

[Peebles]

She knew that she was asking me to cheat. She knew that I am absolutely against that idea, or she should have if she was paying any attention. I thought we were being friendly, but she thought we were flirting. I wanted to hang out as friends, and she...

I'm so angry about the implicit assumptions on my character, I'm so mad that I let myself get played like that. At least I found out what her intentions were before she showed up at my home, or I gave her my address.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. It's a reaffirmation of your own ideals and morals really - someone challenged them and you rose above it.

I wouldn't take it as an assumption on your character - some people are out to get into a relationship with whoever they want, and to hell with anything standing in the way. Maybe she saw your monogamy as a challenge?

Take it from someone who, far in the past, had few compunctions about destroying relationships to take what I wanted; we're only thinking about ourselves. Your morals and feelings don't factor into the equation.

...It hurt to admit that. Still, I felt it relevant to the situation.

[Coidzor]

She, having been presented with details about me that my own family doesn't know during group, skewered one of my pressure points that I had talked about in what was supposed to be a safe space.

So you're saying that by saying she interpreted your hangout offer as a request for a date or something sexual was, in and of itself, attacking you? Or, in response to rejecting her interpretation of your offer as a sexual one, she said something to attack and hurt you over something you'd revealed in your therapy group?

The reason I feel I was used/played is because in an attempt to reach out for friendship and she reacted by assuming sexual interest, and I dismissed earlier concerns about whether she was flirting with me as me being paranoid. She came right out, and started talking about dating, and said she assumed basically it was a date. Now I'm reexamining all of the things she said to me, and I feel... unclean. I feel like the compliments she paid me may have had ulterior motives. I feel like her expressing sympathies over the difficulties of being long distance may have been... It throws the characterization of previous exchanges into question and I don't like what the answers look like. I feel like I quashed my doubts in favor of trust, and got repaid by treachery and an assumption of treachery on my part, and it makes me extremely... upset. It makes me feel like I was complicit, because I rejected the voice in my head that warned me this wasn't okay.

Well, now you know that sometimes you need to be clear about your intentions and can't just rely upon saying you're in a relationship, especially an LDR, to take care of communicating for you in all circumstances.

A compliment is a compliment, regardless of whether a person wants to have sex with you. Although, yes, in some cases the kinds of compliments someone gives to someone else can be a fair indicator of whether they want to have sex with that other someone. Not 100% reliable, but fair at the task.

As has been said, though, you really have to consider where she's coming from, not just your own idiosyncrasies.

And also that, ultimately, she didn't really try anything untoward and you clarified the situation before it actually took a turn for the worse, so this ended about as well as it could have other than your unreasoning and consuming hate and anger.

You need to back away from words like treachery in this situation and in your self-talk, though, it's entirely too strong for what you've revealed and really, really makes me worry about what you might psyche yourself up into doing.

Whether or not she was considering charging me is secondary, but is a real secondary concern. I have enough trust issues with sexuality, and with having been used/told what I wanted to hear for material benefits before, throwing in a question about "is someone considering themselves a potential partner interested in solely a professional capacity" makes me squirm. If she was considering the possibility that she had enticed me into cheating for her own gain, if she wasn't interested in me as me, that's somehow a little more insulting, and plays into both of the above reasons that I feel insulted.

If, and it's a pretty big if which you would have to get some confirmation of rather than running around deciding it's true, she interpreted your actions as interacting with her profession, then there would be no partnership there in the first place.

The way you ascribe motives to her actions that you can't possibly know she had without confirmation on her part and which you don't have any real support for is just causing you more pain as you make a mountain out of a molehill.

People hit on people in relationships or think that people in relationships are hitting on them all the time. The mature thing to do is to just clarify the situation and your position, distance one's self from the other party if one has to, and move on with one's life. Not get worked up into a lather to the point where one believes one's self to be so injured by the other party's interest or interpretation of a situation as interest that one is a few steps removed from wanting to get revenge on someone or even assault them over what is, ultimately, nothing of substance.

When I was younger, despite how strongly I care about being faithful and respecting my commitments, I honestly thought that relationships where nobody cheated simply did not exist. I assumed at least one of my parents was cheating, possibly both. I assumed every loving couple had at least one incident. Now, I realise it might not always be the case. But it's still the case very, very often, because cheating is just so different from one relationship to the next. Yes, some people cheat knowingly, but then you also have people who cheat because they think what they are doing follows the rules of their particular relationship, but their partner happens to disagree.

Well, that's a bleak picture of life.

I'm sorry.

[Driderman]

Geesh, that's horrible - i'm sorry to hear that Driderman. Hopefully you guys can work this one out.

I have, in fact, already been replaced. The marriage is 11 days dead and she's more or less hooking up with someone else. She may not have been cheating on me physically for the last couple of months but quite obviously she was cheating on me mentally. I feel thorougly betrayed at this point.

[Crow]

I have, in fact, already been replaced. The marriage is 11 days dead and she's more or less hooking up with someone else. She may not have been cheating on me physically for the last couple of months but quite obviously she was cheating on me mentally. I feel thorougly betrayed at this point.

Well at least you can be thankful that there is no ambiguity in the matter. Also, that things will not be dragged out any further. You can now continue with your life, assured that you are better off without somebody who was careless with your feelings.

[Grytorm]

Well hello again. Not really any specific request again. Just more rambly thoughts and whining. Well confirmed my friend isn't interested. Fair enough. Still feel a little bad but will get over it, probably when I acquire a new crush. And the Psychology TA is already in a relationship. A fact cunningly acquired when talking about pets. Will still talk to her but not quite as much in an inquisitive way.

Also everyone always seems to already be in a relationship. Sigh. At least I seem to be becoming a bit more proactive.

[Kalmageddon]

Alright, time for a bit of venting of my own.

I was a wild guy until I met my wife and we kinda settled down together. She was pretty young when we met and in the beginning she was pretty controlling, which in part was fair and in part was annoying. Gradually, we adapted to one another and became a happy and well functioning couple. Then at some point, we bought an apartment together (based on her suggestion) and later got married (partly her suggestion as well although I was in the consideration stage and she kinda jumped the gun on me). We also got a dog, or well she got a dog because that was the agreement.

So there we are, we own all these things that tie us down, anchor us to a normal life with a normal schedule and now she wants an open relationship, which we discussed the possibility of negotiating a long time ago if it seemed "necessary", and she wants this not necessarily because she wants to have sex with other, but because she wants to be free to go have all those misadventures and do the very same stupid things that she stopped me from doing. Barring that, we're probably splitting up. So basically, our relationship is more or less going down the drain because my wife is unhappy with me becoming the person she wanted me to be

Welcome to the reason as to why I don't date girls that haven't had at least the chance of having a slutty phase, and I use this term without any negative connotation as I consider it the holy grail of healthy relationships.
If anyone, be they man or woman, hasn't had the chance of experimenting they can't be really sure of what they say they want in a relationship. This is especially true for women, as society tends to tell them that being promiscuous is a bad thing, therefore making them even less likely than men to explore their sexuality in a healthy and guilt-free fashon.
Which in terms of a monogamous relationship, makes them time bombs. Yes, I'm harsh, but in the context of a stable relationship, I don't trust anyone that hasn't had the chance of being their real self or at the very least make sure they know who their real self is.

Quite often people want what society tells them is good, not what they really want. A stable relationship, marriage, family and similar things are exactly this. There are people that honestly want them, and right now I count myself among them, but that's just because I did have the chance of having fun and being promiscuous and now I can safely say that I'm ready to move on.