Parson In Battle - Good or Bad?

[The Glyphstone]

There's been numerous arguments both for and against the idea of Parson going in to personally mix it up against the RCC and Ansom. He does have that sword, after all - but he's also a fat game geek who hates stairs and exists in Erf at all because of his tactical genius, not his physical power.

So, would it be bad writing/storytelling/Deus Ex Machina/intriguing plot twist/Nine Hundred and Fifty Kinds Of Awesome!!11 to see Parson take the field himself? Give an opinion, and if you're feeling up to it, explain why.

Me, I'm torn - it would be almost a betrayal of the character, but it might just be sheer cool enough to counteract it. Might.

[DevilDan]

Personally, I'd be fairly disappointed if Parson wins by engaging in hand-to-hand combat.

[Godskook]

Personally, I'd be fairly disappointed if Parson wins by engaging in hand-to-hand combat.

I'd be disappointed if he won by pulling an Ansom-style combat(hit things until they all die), but I can think of ways in which Parson taking the field would serve him well, character-wise. One way would be similar Hal Moore(Mel Gibson) in "We were soldiers". Hal is, for the most part, played as a strategist and leader, yet he doesn't hesitate to lead by example, "where the metal meets the meat".

[bdares]

Well, the sword does grant him leadership, which is apparently a game attribute, not a mental one. I don't see why it can't grant leet combat skillz as a physical attribute. Then again, there's the mostly mental attribute of "ruthlessness." In short, there's not enough information.

This could be a deliberate non-Chekhov's gun. I can see it happening. Then again, the recent strips have been somewhat... predictable. I really was hoping for a big twist, but I suppose it's coming soon.

[Altima]

Also remember that Parson has a good, oh, four feet on everyone else?

Also, he may have TWO artifact bonuses--his mathemancy gauntlet and the sword.

However, I don't think he needs to actually engage. He's, frankly, too low a level (he's, apparently, level 2, while even Webinar was level 5). Also, all the units in GK already get a city-wide leadership bonus from him.

[ishnar]

Also remember that Parson has a good, oh, four feet on everyone else?

Also, he may have TWO artifact bonuses--his mathemancy gauntlet and the sword.

However, I don't think he needs to actually engage. He's, frankly, too low a level (he's, apparently, level 2, while even Webinar was level 5). Also, all the units in GK already get a city-wide leadership bonus from him.

Probably neither the sword or gauntlet is an artifact since neither is 3d rendered. However, there is the possibility that there is a distinction between artifact and arkentool.

[raphfrk]

However, there is the possibility that there is a distinction between artifact and arkentool.

From here, it seems that an 'artefact' is something that wasn't created by mortals.

Presumably, the sword and gauntlet count as being created by Wanda.

[Kreistor]

With Ansom going down and almost dying, Parson won't be looking at the option of engaging in melee to win. Far too risky.

[DevilDan]

Presumably, the sword and gauntlet count as being created by Wanda.

Or by the 'mancers who created the spell.

With Ansom going down and almost dying, Parson won't be looking at the option of engaging in melee to win. Far too risky.

If that's what it comes down to, he will do it. But I'll be disappointed if that's what it does come down to.

[Haven]

Also remember that Parson has a good, oh, four feet on everyone else?

Also, he may have TWO artifact bonuses--his mathemancy gauntlet and the sword.

However, I don't think he needs to actually engage. He's, frankly, too low a level (he's, apparently, level 2, while even Webinar was level 5). Also, all the units in GK already get a city-wide leadership bonus from him.

What Altima said. I don't know about the items counting as artifacts, but the sword probably gives him a decent bonus and I can imagine he'll be able to use mathamancy to help him somehow (a little "awesomeness by analysis", probably).

Anyway, I've always pictured the scenario of Parson fighting as a completely desperate one, where Gobwin Knob is infiltrated and overrun. Some soldiers find him, and he manages to surprise everyone by fighting his way out using that sword, his immense stature, and his urge to survive.

[drachefly]

I expect that everything Stanley asked for will come true. If so, Parson will end up on the walls and frighten the coalition into disintegrating.
He doesn't need to fight while doing that, but he does need to get that close, and look scary.

If he hits someone hard, I won't complain. He is huge, after all. But if he displays *skill*, I'll find that annoying.

[MadMaw]

However, I don't think he needs to actually engage. He's, frankly, too low a level (he's, apparently, level 2, while even Webinar was level 5). Also, all the units in GK already get a city-wide leadership bonus from him.

Nobody knows what level Parson is (his stats aren't visible) but the sword fixes up the issues with the leadership bonus (I don't think it's been divulged by how much the original bonus of 2 has increased) and also somehow gives him some ability in combat.

"Sword - 3 in 1
Leadership!
Combat!
Ruthlessness!"

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0118.html

The box also indicates that his abilities will be on par with "The Perfect Warlord(TM)" when he has all the magic items (glasses, glove, sword) in his posession. Not sure if that means he'll be a match for Ansom in hand to hand combat or not though.

[Dragonath]

The spell they got Parson with was created to summon the perfect WARLORD, not the perfect STRATEGIST or whatever.

The items now coming together making Parson the perfect warlord could very well enhance his fighting skills, along with leadership and a mental boost in the spirit of: "What the ****, let's **** em up real bad !!! RAAAAAWR!!!"

Ceasar fights in battle and is a strong unit, Stanley is a tough unit. Both chief WARLORDS, not strategists like Don King and Charlie for instance, who are overlords of their side.

Just my 2 cents...

[SteveD]

Side question; how would Parson level without getting into combat directly?

[Whispri]

Side question; how would Parson level without getting into combat directly?

By commanding a battle in which all friendly units involved gain his leadership bonus perhaps? Or just by keeping his stack between himself and his enemies as long as he defeats said foes.

[Dacia Brabant]

We've seen the leadership and we've seen the ruthlessness, but we still need to see the combat enhancement Parson received from the sword. There's a long tradition in this particular genre where the ordinary person from our world becomes a hero in another world partly by being magically enhanced, so I won't have a problem with it if that's the case here. Still, if I were Parson I would avoid engaging in combat until the very end.

I would withdraw the uncroaked from the walls once the coalition opens a breach (I'm sure they will on this turn now that Ansom has the 'pliers again) and use them as fodder to delay the siege as much as possible, then I would lead* garrison's defense of the courtyard walls, preferably with all the high-level units and heavies. I would however give up on the tower, there's too many archons in the airspace to make it defensible and not enough casters or air defenses left to even try, though it would be nice to leave some booby traps in there for when the archons take it over.

I would throw everything I had at Ansom's personal stack since he's the key for his side even if his lieutenants doubt him, but I would not make a last stand there so if we don't drop him before they overrun the courtyard I would withdraw to the dungeon, where I would have all remaining tunnel fighters ready to make the last stand and hope the cavalry comes riding in just in time.


*Not lead from the front however, this is where ruthlessness comes back in: Bogroll needs to put on his Parson outfit and lead the defense, while Parson directs him through Maggie. Foolamancy isn't the only way to deceive an opponent.

[DevilDan]

We've seen the leadership and we've seen the ruthlessness, but we still need to see the combat enhancement Parson received from the sword. There's a long tradition in this particular genre where the ordinary person from our world becomes a hero in another world partly by being magically enhanced, so I won't have a problem with it if that's the case here.

I don't particularly like it, but it has been more than foreshadowed.

[teratorn]

Nobody knows what level Parson is.

Oh yes we do:

1 Chief Warlord, Level 2, Special.

[DevilDan]

Oh yes we do:

1 Chief Warlord, Level 2, Special.

Which may or may not mean much given that he's a special (read: probably unique) unit and has received a few magic items enhancing his abilities.

[SteveD]

Well we know from Klog #4 that his leadership bonus was a 2, and that was well before he got any parts of the sword.

Don't think we've enough evidence to guess at what effect the sword has on his abilities (or even what his original stats were).

One thing I don't get however, is why a level 2?

[BillyJimBoBob]

There's been numerous arguments both for and against the idea of Parson going in to personally mix it up against the RCC and Ansom. He does have that sword, after all - but he's also a fat game geek who hates stairs and exists in Erf at all because of his tactical genius, not his physical power.

So, would it be bad writing/storytelling/Deus Ex Machina/intriguing plot twist/Nine Hundred and Fifty Kinds Of Awesome!!11 to see Parson take the field himself? Give an opinion, and if you're feeling up to it, explain why.

Me, I'm torn - it would be almost a betrayal of the character, but it might just be sheer cool enough to counteract it. Might.

I'm pretty much with you point for point. Parson is the typical portrayal of a veteran gamer: Overweight (let's just say it, he is very fat. Potato man and lipid golem, lol.), out of shape ("whew, stairs"), sloppy (images of his home and his clothing) and not at all inclined to physical over mental hobbies and pursuits. He works at Kinkos and plays tabletop games. We've seen zero glimpses of anything physical from him.

But now he has a sword providing Leadership, Combat, and Ruthlessness. If it were just Leadership and Ruthlessness a rod or a scepter would have been more appropriate a form. Combat though, that takes a weapon. And once the hero has a weapon it's pretty much a given that he's going to use it.

Now couple this with the fact that he is the same size as Bogroll. Bogroll is a combat 5, and Parson's Leadership bonus is 2. Jillian is "a 9", which could refer to her level, her combat stat, to her leadership bonus, or to something else entirely.

If Parson is personally a combat 5, that seems to be unfair to Bogroll, as a Troll in a warlike setting can be assumed to be more experienced in combat than Parson. But Parson should get his own Leadership bonus (I think), and whatever bonus his sword provides. I don't think the mathamancy item/artifact would provide a combat bonus, it's magic is in allowing the user to enter into more favorable battles if the user has the initiative to be able to make the choices. That in itself can make the user better in combat, but not via a direct bonus.

So speculating that Parson is a Combat 1-4, with a 2 Leadership bonus, and an unknown sword bonus but presumably 1 or greater, and Parson should be at 3-7 or higher. Probably still not a match for either Jillian or Ansom (for whom we have no numbers, but I'd assume that Jillian would not be interested in a low level Warlord), but potentially able to influence a battle in a significant way. Parson should be calculating his odds against other units constantly, that would allow him to use some fairly simple math to narrow down his own stats.

From here, it seems that an 'artefact' is something that wasn't created by mortals.

Presumably, the sword and gauntlet count as being created by Wanda.

I'd say it was made by the summoning spell. "Help the summon spell fix its goof". Which begs the question: If you can pay 500k shmuckers for a spell, summon the perfect Warlord, and he will be retrofitted with a 500k shmuckers or maybe more and a magic sword, then you can afford to buy the spell over and over until you've got a legion of Warlords with a magic sword, selling the mathamancy artifact each time to pay for the next spell. In fact, by having Wanda cast the spell rather than purchasing the support contract you'd make 150k shmuckers per casting, or more depending on how much more than 500k the purchasers of the mathamancy item/artifact were willing to pay. On the second casting you could then afford to pay full price and get a perfect Warlord who doesn't need items to be awesome. This is a logical inconsistency within the storyline.

[teratorn]

On the second casting you could then afford to pay full price and get a perfect Warlord who doesn't need items to be awesome. This is a logical inconsistency within the storyline.

Well, but if you sell the gauntlet then the guy who buys it can use it against you and take his money back. And if he had enough money to buy it, and you needed the money from the sell, then he's bound to be much more powerful than you.

If you don't sell it, you can attract people like Charlie, powerful enough to take it from you.

[SteveMB]

Well, but if you sell the gauntlet then the guy who buys it can use it against you and take his money back. And if he had enough money to buy it, and you needed the money from the sell, then he's bound to be much more powerful than you.

If you don't sell it, you can attract people like Charlie, powerful enough to take it from you.

The proposed hack assumes that the artifact will work for anybody else. (Sizemore implicitly assumes as much in his evaluation of what some kings and overlords would pay for it, but we have no way of knowing that it's the case.)

[Radar]

(...)
I'd say it was made by the summoning spell. "Help the summon spell fix its goof". Which begs the question: If you can pay 500k shmuckers for a spell, summon the perfect Warlord, and he will be retrofitted with a 500k shmuckers or maybe more and a magic sword, then you can afford to buy the spell over and over until you've got a legion of Warlords with a magic sword, selling the mathamancy artifact each time to pay for the next spell. In fact, by having Wanda cast the spell rather than purchasing the support contract you'd make 150k shmuckers per casting, or more depending on how much more than 500k the purchasers of the mathamancy item/artifact were willing to pay. On the second casting you could then afford to pay full price and get a perfect Warlord who doesn't need items to be awesome. This is a logical inconsistency within the storyline.

It's not inconsistency, if you consider, that most probably the mathamancy artifact cannot work for anyone but Parson (a hole fitting his calculator watch would be a hint). The glasses aren't worth much, since seing someones stats is common among warlords at least. As for the sword, we don't know much about it yet.

[DevilDan]

One thing I don't get however, is why a level 2?

Again, he may be a completely unique units whose very presence bends or breaks some rules. Comparing his level 2 to Jillian's apparent level 9 might be like comparing a level 2 dwagon to a level 9 marbit, not that I would necessarily bet on Parson if he had to go up against Jill.

[BillyJimBoBob]

Well, but if you sell the gauntlet then the guy who buys it can use it against you and take his money back. And if he had enough money to buy it, and you needed the money from the sell, then he's bound to be much more powerful than you.

If you don't sell it, you can attract people like Charlie, powerful enough to take it from you.

Meh, your logic is not completely off but your assertions that it'd be a bad thing no matter what is skewed. Look at it this way:

Assume a start of 500k shmuckers. Stanley could have afforded that, even though it would have been enough to "literally empty the treasury." Buy the spell for 350k, leaving you with 150k and pocket change. Summon Parson. Wait for the items/artifacts to appear. Let Parson keep the glasses (notice I never mentioned them, as they are indeed useless to any resident of Erf) and the sword, since the sword improves his stats. Sell the mathamancy artifact for a minimum of 500k. Assume the worst, and you've now got a treasury of 650k. Now buy the spell again, with the support contract. You're at 150k in the treasury, the same place you'd have been had you stopped with Parson and let him keep all the items. No loss there. But this time the spell is cast by experts, and you get a true "perfect Warlord", who doesn't need 3 items to bring him up to par. So you're up a perfect Warlord and you've still got Parson with glasses and sword.

On the down side, you do have a mathemancy artifact in the hands of a potential foe. Charlie sure wants it badly enough. Perhaps badly enough to pay and commit to a magically binding non-aggression pact, or something similar. And your point about the artifact making you a big target? True enough, but now it's in the hands of a potential enemy, and any such avarice will see two potential foes fighting it out and getting weaker while you remain static and wait for a survivor. If you don't sell it you have the status quo in our story: Charlie wants the item and Stanley has only Parson.

The proposed hack assumes that the artifact will work for anybody else. (Sizemore implicitly assumes as much in his evaluation of what some kings and overlords would pay for it, but we have no way of knowing that it's the case.)

Sizemore is a very studious caster. If he says that someone would pay for the item/artifact, it's a safe bet that they can also use the item/artifact. It's no guarantee, but it would violate a few writing conventions to set someone up as a studious jack-of-all-trades on the subject of magic and then have them be wrong in such a casual discussion. These types of characters can be wrong about big things, but to be wrong in a situation with no dramatic impact invalidates their character concept.

Further supporting this is the fact that Charlie wants the item and Parson, but says he's willing to take the item off of Parson's corpse if that's how it has to go down. Charlie is shown to be a Thinkamancy master, either due to the Arcendish or natively and enhanced by his attunement to the Arcendish. For both he and Sizemore to mistake the utility of the mathamancy item/artifact in the hands of others is not only unlikely but story breaking.

[DevilDan]

Sizemore is a very studious caster. If he says that someone would pay for the item/artifact, it's a safe bet that they can also use the item/artifact. It's no guarantee, but it would violate a few writing conventions to set someone up as a studious jack-of-all-trades on the subject of magic and then have them be wrong in such a casual discussion. These types of characters can be wrong about big things, but to be wrong in a situation with no dramatic impact invalidates their character concept.

Let's remember that Charlie also desires the mathamancy item, even if Parson is killed.

But let's also remember that the watch is a non-Erf item, an item the learned Sizemore considers almost as an artifact; it can have rules all its own, breaking the established order of Erf. What Sizemore or Charlie suspect or believe to be true about it could still be monumentally wrong.

[teratorn]

Sell the mathamancy artifact for a minimum of 500k. Assume the worst, and you've now got a treasury of 650k. Now buy the spell again, with the support contract.

You're assuming the spell can be forged again soon. It may require something special, not just schmuckers. Maybe a gem that no longer exists, maybe a certain instant in time.

[Another_Poet]

I would love to see it if it is written well, and I trust the creators to write it very, very well.

When people say it would suxxor or be out of character for him, they seem to be thinking of him charging into batle Braveheart style and overcoming Ansom in a duel. Yeah, boo.

But what about this: as the Garrison is invaded, Parson's in the thick of battle and Wanda tells him to get his butt in gear and do what a warlord does. He stares ather, stunned, and she gives him a pointed look, then glances at his sword. Oh, riiiight....

So he goes in swinging. No idea what he's doing, but his bonuses from being a warlord and being a Heavy unit replace his real-world athletic ability. Even though he's never trained, he finds he can do pretty well. He and Bogroll clear the room and then he collapses, sweating and exhausted. And more than a little horrified that he just killed people. For realz. Up close and personal.

Cue a full page of him questioning his morality and whether or not these people are real, then him acting sort of shellshocked as he tries to make it to [plot point X]. He is still only Level 2, so even though he's surprisingly competent in battle he's no uber knight like Ansom. The gasp of pain the first time he loses hit points might be particularly interesting. He might also gain a new respect for Stanley, who does this for a living.

Of course, at some point I suspect Bogroll will lay down his life defending Parson, which will probably weight heavily on Parson's mind.

All in all, a little hand-to-hand could be a great way to develop Parson's character, give us a better understanding of his stats as a unit, and change the pace of the story for a few pages. It would also show the weak side of our Lord Hamster without making him look like a bad tactician. All in all I like it.

[BillyJimBoBob]

Let's remember that Charlie also desires the mathamancy item, even if Parson is killed.

Let's remember? I mentioned it in the post you're replying to...

But let's also remember that the watch is a non-Erf item, an item the learned Sizemore considers almost as an artifact; it can have rules all its own, breaking the established order of Erf. What Sizemore or Charlie suspect or believe to be true about it could still be monumentally wrong.

As I pointed out, it would be contrary to literary convention for knowledgeable scholars and potent casters to be so wrong about an item when there is zero dramatic tension about the facts in question.

Let's see... Charlie sends in his Archons, conquers GK, Parson is slain in the process and Charlie mourns his loss of the Warlord, but collects the mathamancy item/artifact. Next frame: Charlie: "Aw, darn, it doesn't work for me, shucker-doo. Sure wish I hadn't killed Parson and lost all of those Archons." That's not terribly likely.

You're assuming the spell can be forged again soon. It may require something special, not just schmuckers. Maybe a gem that no longer exists, maybe a certain instant in time.

I'm assuming nothing that isn't shown in the comic. Rather, you are assuming that the spell isn't available to anyone with the shmuckers to buy it, or that it requires some unnamed resource or time period to forge. It would be a fantastic coincidence, would it not, for Wanda to have just happened to pay a visit to the Magic Kingdom at the same moment as the spell to summon the perfect Warlord was completed and put on the market. If this kind of stroke of luck had occurred, there would have been some mention of it, again by literary convention. But there was no such mention, Wanda simply mentions that this spell exists and can be purchased, even if the cost is enormous. So the rational assumption is that anyone willing to spend 500k (or 350k w/o the service contract) shmuckers can buy this spell.