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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Okay, so I got a Druid 4/Fangshield 5/Master of Many Forms 10/Warshaper 3 to throw at my PCs. I'd like to keep an insect theme but I could just do a palette swap.

    This is my thinking:
    Round 0 - Dire Tortoise
    Round 1 - ???
    Round 2 - ???
    Round 3 - ???
    Combat lasts for more than 4 rounds? Man, the PCs must be losing.

    I'd like him to change shapes and I'll have him equipped with something that makes Wild Shape a Swift Action from MIC or another silly source book. This is going to be the near the last fight in the campaign in a city. I've already got a BFC Druid and some minions.

    My main question is what are some of the best high level Wild Shapes? This MoMF is going to be the frontal assault on the PCs, I'd need some interesting shapes.

    So please, play ground, you're my only hope.

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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Ok, my Druid has 22 HD.

    Perhaps that's some missing information. Looking at the suggestions, I should just stick to Shadow Dragon or something?

    The Druid has a natural Strength in the high 20s. I'm looking for stuff that is even more impressive. Some options are great for NPC Enemies that someone wouldn't list for a PC for being too narrow.

    With that in mind, should I be trolling the Summoning Handbooks instead? They list HD that is higher 18 on a Roc.

    For example, could a 22 HD MoMF Wild Shape into a 22 HD version of whatever's on that list? Could I also Wild Shape into a Greenbound version of something?

    I've stayed away from Druids in my games before because they're really complicated and now I want to spring something on the PCs that they haven't seen before.
    Last edited by Tevesh; 2014-02-24 at 08:14 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    You can't wild shape into advanced versions of monsters. To put it the simplest way, you can wild shape into anything in a book that has a stat block without (a) templates or (b) class levels.

    Generally, don't wild shape more than ~once per combat unless you have the magical item that lets you shift as a swift action. I think this was in complete champion? Raiment of the Beast, maybe?

    I'm going to assume that when you say "Fangshield 5" you mean Fangshield Druid substitution levels, because otherwise you don't have wild shape and your build is illegal.

    All classes in your build except warshaper advance wild shape HD, so your HD cap is 19 (there's an item that can get it to 20, which I think is also in complete champion). You can turn from diminutive to gargantuan. Your wild shapes last 9 Hours (neither MoMF nor warshaper increase duration) and you can wild shape 13 times per day.

    All creatures you shift into have +4 Str, +4 Con, plus the benefit of any magical items you equip with wilding clasps (MIC, 4000 GP/Item). Items so clasped will change size to fit new forms. You retain mental stats, HP total, BAB, Base Saves... all the standard stuff.

    Vermin are cool, but generally bad forms for a MoMF. This is because they tend to have huge piles of HD for their CR, and you wild shape based on HD, whereas how good a form is can be (roughly) measured by their CR. Granted, their CR won't be artifically inflated by supernatural and spell-like abilities you don't have access to, but that's true for many things.

    I'll give you a few sample good forms for combat:

    The Nagahydra is a fun one. It gets 7 bite attaks, can use them all as an AoO or on a charge, and each one comes with con poison (1D12!). The DC of this poison is Con-based, so yours will be 10 + 11 (HD/2) + 7 (20+4 con) = 28, unless you have +Con items wilding clasped, in which case it's higher. Your stats would be 34/14/24, again, barring items. Assuming fractional BAB, you have 15 (BAB) + 1 (Epic Attack Bonus) + 12 (34 Str) - 2 (Size) = +26 to hit naked. This will wreck many melee builds since your reach (with warshaper) will give you 14 attacks on a medium charger before they hit you (although at this level, they'll probably have reach as well). Oh, and while we're bean counting, get an amulet of mighty fists (ideal) or cast greater magic fang (workable) for extra attack and damage. I like to combine an amulet of mighty fists with a necklace of natural attacks (Savage Species), as depending on the stats of both, it becomes cheaper. I used a spreadsheet, you may not care enough.

    For another example of a powerful creature, try the Octopus Tree from the fiend folio. 9 natural attacks, 15+5 foot reach, powerful grappler (15 BAB + 8 Size + 12 Str with improved grab). Or the Darktentacles, capable of wielding a huge 2-handed weapon and 11 huge light weapons with no penalty (or, for a mere -2 to attacks, a dozen huge greatswords). The Urphidon (LoM) fires strands 50 feet that drag enemies to him while dealing 2D8 Str Damage. Trolls are fun - A Cave troll (MM3) has a billion attacks on a charge, while a crystalline troll (MM3) takes lethal damage from sonic attacks only.

    Those are some of the best melee combat forms with your current build.

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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Wow, those are amazing suggestions! Thank you! My bad on Fangshields, I guess it should've been written as Fangshield +1 instead of Fangshield 5. This way the critter would be able to use its own Natural Attacks on top of its forms' progression.

    Round 0 Dire Tortoise
    Round 1 Nagahydra
    Round 2-3 Depends

    If I took Assume Supernatural from Savage Species, would the Druid be able to cast the Nagahydra's spells? As awesome as d12 Poison is, BFC Spells like Forcecage and Mass Hold Person are way better. Most Spellcasting from Monster entries are Su despite what should be Sp. The only strike I see against this is that you "don't have the spells prepared".

    Is there a particular errata or reason why you can't slap on Templates? If you're able to turn into a Plant, why couldn't you use Woodling or Greenbound XYZ? I did find a really old GitP thread about being able to turn into Advanced Creatures but only at Size gaps. i.e. once you hit 17 HD you could turn from a Large Dire Bear into a Huge Dire Bear. The main reason why I bring this up is that the MoMF guide mentions Red Caps and assuming higher HD forms.

    I planned on using a Yuan-Ti Anathema for an earlier fight but this Nagahydra looks way more intimidating!

    Also, if I go with Tall Deformity that gives you 5' Reach, would that be applicable to any Wild Shapes? If he's Tall, could he turn into a Tall Dire Tortoise or whatever?

    Some of the forms that looked interesting in the Handbook were:
    Cryohydra - Though Nagahydra looks way more badass
    Mindflayer - INSANE SR... 17 + 18 class levels...
    Battlebriar - Grapple to make helpless, minions to Coup De Gras. Though at the level the PCs are fighting, they probably already have Freedom of Movement up at all times.
    Arcane Ooze - Crap all over the Wizard but more importantly just say no to everything

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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    I don't know much about individual forms, but if you have access to 3.0 material you might want to consider replacing druid levels with a level in the shapeshifter PrC from Oriental Adventures. Dragon Magazine # 318 updated it so that at 1st level it gives you Wild Shape, but the maximum HD is based off of your HD and not class levels. It can really help. Personally I like Hengoyokai X4 (X has to have Full BAB)/Warshaper 3/Shapeshifter 1/Master of Many Forms 7/Warshaper +2/MoMF +3

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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tevesh View Post
    Wow, those are amazing suggestions! Thank you! My bad on Fangshields, I guess it should've been written as Fangshield +1 instead of Fangshield 5. This way the critter would be able to use its own Natural Attacks on top of its forms' progression.
    I would just leave it out of the progression, especially because it's pretty much just an ACF. So, a character could look something like druid 8/moonspeaker 4/druid 8, with the first and fourth shifter druid substitution levels, the skilled city-dweller sense motive trade, and city soul. Putting that all into a progression would get kinda annoying, not to mention difficult to read.
    Is there a particular errata or reason why you can't slap on Templates?
    Wild shape is based on alternate form, and alternate form says, "A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template."

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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Spells actually have a very annoying, very complicated history with how to gain them. The shortest version is that no DM should let you gain spellcasting of things you turn into by any means... but that by some readings of the rules (argued brilliantly in that thread by JaronK), they are technically granted by polymorph, or as (argued by some opponents) as little as alter self. tldr: Don't try, it gets messy.

    Read the link I gave you to Alternate Form. It bans templates. Advanced creatures (creatures that were advanced with extra HD) are banned somewhere much more obscure, I'm not sure where, but I'm trusting that they're out since the MoMF Bible mentions it explicitly.

    Re: Redcaps: I said earlier, "you can wild shape into any stat block without templates or class levels." Redcaps have a statblock for "Elder redcap" form, which lets you take either one of those (this is true for a few other monsters, like greater barghests or dusk giants). And the reason that the handbook mentions them saying they "use different advancement rules" is because when you wild shape, you retain your own HD and use it for all calculations. Therefore at level 22 you can turn into, say, a young redcap (4 HD) and treat yourself as a 22 HD Redcap (adding 18 STR, 18 Dex, and 18 Con, plus other benefits).

    There are some good forms for Assume Supernatural Ability. One of my favorites is the Overseer Beholder from Lords of Madness. If you take Assume Supernatural Abilities (Overseer Beholder Eye Rays), you gain 13 magical powers, including robust caster defenses, most of which take no actions to use, such as targeted greater dispel, chain lightning, crushing despair, dominate person, hold monster, etc etc. and the fun ones like "hit a creature with your reactive spell immunity eye, the spell it's casting doesn't affect you automatically - no roll, no save" or "hit the creature with your reactive spell turning eye, their next spell that would target you automatically hits them instead".

    The overseer's main flaw is its movement (5 feet, no fly) but if you charge your enemy as a cave troll, hit them with 5+ natural attacks on a pounce, then activate your rainment to swap to overseer beholder as a swift action when you're in the center of your enemies and blast with 14 eye rays as a free action... well, one enemy gets dominated, the next one is held, the third is stunned, and the last one gets suggestioned. Fun way to open a combat.

    Note that I think some semi-official source stated that eye rays were each a different ability, as an attempt to depower the feat, which can really only be accomplished by... banning that feat. I think it may have been an FAQ or a forum post; I might be making it up.

    Other assume supernatural ability forms include:
    • Madcrafter of Thoon (MM5). Ok, not actually that good. But you get to spit baby robots at your enemies to melt them and you can't say no to that.
    • Thoon Elder Brain (the reason I actually opened my MM5). It's basically a spherical mind flayer that floats around and hits people with 8 acid-covered tentacles. If you give it supernatural abilities it can gain a 10 foot-radius Confusion-at-will or a targeted save-or-2D6 wisdom damage. More importantly, the elder brain gets a free mental round every turn (as an (Ex) ability) that it can use to activate this.
    • The Runehound (MM3) is a medium dog-like aberration that has 10-foot reach (15 for you), a 50foot move speed, and can fire acid every 1D4 rounds as a ranged touch that hits up to 100 feet away and deals 1D6/HD. If you want to kite people it's a decent form, although not that good at epic levels. Same with the Zern from MM4, really.
    • Sunwyrm (FF). More fun than powerful, you can turn incorporeal as a move action or make all your natural attacks brilliant energy, ignoring armor. Also, you're a dragon made of the sun!


    I'm avoiding the really broken forms (worse than beholders), because those are generally not fun in play.

    Edit: Damn it, eggynack! I was hoping you'd stay out of this thread for another half hour so I could feel like a druid expert for once.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    Edit: Damn it, eggynack! I was hoping you'd stay out of this thread for another half hour so I could feel like a druid expert for once.
    Nah, I'ma mostly not do this one. I don't have all of the MoMF information yet. Or, rather, I suppose I do, for it is all available, but it's of a density that I'm probably not going to spend crazy amounts of time parsing it all. I'm probably doing the same for planar shepherd, at least for now.

    Edit: By the by, the swift action wild shape item is the mantle of the beast, on complete champion, page 140, and the +1 wild shape item is the entire trappings of the beast, which is described under armor of the beast on page 135. The wild shape amulet (MoF, 167) also gets you to said boost, though at 40,000 GP, it's somewhat expensive.
    Last edited by eggynack; 2014-02-24 at 11:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Ahhh... I see what happened.

    I actually posted about this previously and eggynack offered some great advice. People intimidated by attempting to contribute to the local Druid legend didn't want to chip in their 2 cents if eggynack was on the case. Yeah, he was super helpful with my other Druid build.

    @ Nihilarian: Sorry, the base creature type remains unchanged. He's part of a larger attack of Abeils.

    @ eggynack: Awesome, succinct advice as usual. Thank you for sourcing the items and providing sources to errata.

    @ bekeleven: Those are some awesome suggestions. Now I understand the Red Cap and I'm now going to have to wrestle with the Nagahydra - Being able to slap the PCs with 5 spells is pretty damned tempting...

    But even more awesome is you've given me the idea of piggybacking Wild Shapes with the Beholder Overseer.

    I can see:
    Round 0 Dire Tortoise, Standard Attack, Swift Wild Shape into Nagahydra (or a monster that gets a lot of attacks in a single Standard Action)
    Round 1 Standard Action to Multiattack (or cast spells as Nagahydra), Swift Action to Wild Shape Overseer, Free Action for Lasers, Move Action to Wild Shape into Gaze Monster
    Round 2 Swift Action to Wild Shape into Free Action Dude, Free Action Lasers, Move Action to Wild Shape into something, Standard Action Something Something
    Round 3 ???

    That's pretty complicated but that's sort of what I want. Combat doesn't seem to last more than 4 rounds.

    Unless someone can think of something better to do?

    So, I've got to stat out a Dire Tortoise for Surprise Round, decide on a Hydra type, stat out an Overseer, decide on a Gaze Monster, decide on another monster that uses Free Actions and another critter that gets a lot of attacks as free actions.

    Hmm... Let's just be lazy and cruel.

    Round 0 - Dire Tortoise, Surprise Round Shenanigans, Swift Action Wild Shape Nagahydra
    Round 1 - Standard Action Nagahydra Spells, Swift Action Wild Shape Beholder Overseer, Free Action Overseer Lasers, Move Action Wild Shape (Gazed-based Constitution-based monster [Basilisk?])
    Round 2 - Swift Action Wild Shape (Free Action Monster - Normal Beholder or Thoon Elder Brain?), Move Action Wild Shape (Standard Action Monster - Hydra-ish or something)
    Round 3 - Swift Action Wild Shape (Beatstick - Battlebriar to Trample and Grapple Everybody?, Sunwyrm to slap Touch Attacks?), Standard+Move Full Attack?

    If you guys can nominate some suggestions that'd be helpful. I might need to rebuild my MoMF to have higher Cha and Wis. His race takes penalties to those so its hard to get them up (though I did age him to Venerable as soon as I saw that MoMF's last level allows you to ignore ageing penalties).

    I really like to plan out my encounters. Its so when I beat the crap out of my PCs or if they roll over an encounter, they know that's what happened. I try to fudge as little as possible. Like here's an example of how much thought I put into my Level 17 boss:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311077

    Edit:
    @ bekeleven: Please, give me the real broken forms. My PCs have cake walked through the majority of the encounters I throw at them. If it is too crazy I'll censure it but my main concern is being able to deliver a memorable fight. A shapechanging guy whose new form is even more brutal than the last would be great.

    Edit2:
    Just had a thought for Round 2's Standard Action Monster: Summoning Ooze. The Summoning Ooze counts off of HD, meaning it could use Summon Monster 6 at 15 HD. I have 19 (or 22) so I think that works. Maybe ignore the stipulation and go all the way to Summon Monster 9... Hmm...

    Edit3:
    ****, Summoning Ooze's Summon Monster is Sp, not Su. Damn. That would've been cool.
    Last edited by Tevesh; 2014-02-25 at 12:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    @Tevash: shapeshifter doesn't require hengoyokai, that was just my personal favorite build. All you need to do to get it to work is one level of shapeshifter and however many levels of Master of Many Forms you want.

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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Quote Originally Posted by Tevesh View Post
    @ bekeleven: Please, give me the real broken forms. My PCs have cake walked through the majority of the encounters I throw at them. If it is too crazy I'll censure it but my main concern is being able to deliver a memorable fight. A shapechanging guy whose new form is even more brutal than the last would be great.
    Note that I cannot endorse showing any of the following forms table:
    • Shaedling has the ability to conjure up any object it wants as long as it's holding it and under 15 pounds. Hello, artifacts. Hello, custom magical items with full charges. Tippy saw this on his pizza and stopped ordering extra cheese.
    • Greater Dusk Giant: When it eats creatures (from PCs down to rats) it gains HD based on the HD it eats, and gets massive (think double redcap) boosts per HD, in addition to adding size categories. Buy some Bags of Tricks, shape into Dusk Giant, eat what comes out, you have 50 HD, 60 Str, and 60 AC. And 1200 HP, because while wild shaping doesn't change your HP total, adding extra HD afterwards DOES. Oh, and I think those would increase your epic save modifier too.
    • Myconid Sovereign has an ability to reanimate corpses with fungal spores. These creatures share the stats of zombies minus the weakness to positive energy. Oh, and there's no HD limit. Each is loyal to you and lasts for weeks.
    • Ushemoi Arkamoi and Lilitu: Cast spells as (Ex) - gets away from the problem I mentioned in earlier posts. Lilitu casts as a 10th level cleric but by RAW you can argue they don't have spells prepared. Ushemoi casts as a Sorc 4, which needs no preparation. Enjoy unlimited access to every 2nd level wizard spell (not amazing but still nice).
    • Elemental Weirds were once the **** with assume supernatural ability. I think they got reprinted since the MM2 Update + Errata, but if not, they give at-will free-action access to most powerhouses of the divination school.
    • Etheral Doppleganger requires Assume Su. Basically you disable a person and gain all of their abilities - with the exception of cleric casting and some paladin abilities because (only) god sees through your disguise. Wizard casting is still on the table. Greater Doppleganger does the same thing but it takes longer than 1 wild shape, unfortunately. Mindstealer can pull off something slightly worse with a slightly higher investment; skip it.
    • Sarrukh: Pun pun.
    • There are a number of similarly broken forms but they wouldn't work with your build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tevesh View Post
    Just had a thought for Round 2's Standard Action Monster: Summoning Ooze. The Summoning Ooze counts off of HD, meaning it could use Summon Monster 6 at 15 HD. I have 19 (or 22) so I think that works. Maybe ignore the stipulation and go all the way to Summon Monster 9... Hmm...

    Edit3:
    ****, Summoning Ooze's Summon Monster is Sp, not Su. Damn. That would've been cool.
    This just reminded me of one of my favorite Wild Shape loopholes. Let's read the SRD:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alternate Form
    A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template.
    Now let me open my MM3 to a random page:

    Quote Originally Posted by MM3 P.91
    "Living spell" is an unusual template, in that it is applied to an arcane or divine spell effect (or in some cases, a group of spell effects) and not a creature.
    Enjoy turning into 20HD Living Spell of Mage's Disjunction for just long enough to Engulf. This requires Su. However, the feat slot is worth it because out of combat you can use this form to turn into utility spells (Living Spell: Vigorous Circle! Living Spell: Control Weather!) and cast whatever you damn well please.

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    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Hmm...

    @ Nihilarian: This gets me into MoMF faster. The quickest is Wizard 3 or Bard 4 for Alter Self. So if he's Wizard 3, that gives 1 level for Shapeshifter...

    Wizard 3/Shapeshifter 1/MoMF 10/Warshaper 4? (Unless someone can think of another better level to dip with. Warshaper 4 doesn't seem that great. Nature's Warrior could get me DR... I was thinking of going with Wilding Armor to really jacket up AC; however, Fist of the Forest gives +Con to AC which is already high...

    Or use Precocious Apprentice to go Wizard 1/Shapeshifter 1/MoMF 10/Warshaper 3/Fist of the Forest 1/XYZ 2? Would Fist of the Forest's Con to AC stack with a Monk's Wis to AC? Or god forbid Kung Fu Genius Monk to stay SAD vs MAD. That would make Invisible Fist within reach, though Evasion is quite useful. Ugh, the fromage.

    You've given me some serious thoughts and a loaded gun. I don't know if I should shake your hand or slap you.

    @ bekeleven: Wow, you've given me some seriously disturbing choices. Let me go over my thoughts on them... My main problem is he's going to be Wild Shaping during Combat, I don't know how much prep time he would have. Its unrealistic for the imperialistic Abeils to allow territory go unchallenged like this.

    Shaedling: No. I doubt they could conjure up any magical item. Though I guess if you think about the OA 'sacrifice gold to make weapon awesome feat, you can arguably go that route. That is too mind boggling insane.

    Greater Dusk Giant: This is awesome if you can keep the HD after changing. Especially eat a bunch of stuff prior to the battle. Then I could do disgusting things. I'm ruling against because I don't think it would work that way unless someone comes with obvious errata.

    Mycanoid Sovereign: In my mind, I had imagined during the battle it laid out a burst that caused all the dead troops in the Wizard's Nova to rise again for Round 2. Unfortunately, the Sovereign takes longer. That would've been a sick ability to pump out.

    Ushemoi Arkamoi: My jaw is on the floor. Deflection and bonus to damage for each spell cast? The problem with this is the same as a Dusk Giant: Do you keep the buff after you Wild Shape to something else? But I could see so many awesome applications, like Ex: Mirror Image and Ex: Wings of Cover (he casts as a Sorcerer). The problem is locked in as a level 4 Sorcerer.

    Also, the Turlemoi are Attack on Titan.

    Lilitu: The PCs fought one of these just a level prior, so I don't want to use the same monster. Otherwise, great suggestion.

    Elemental Weirds: Not looking for Divinations in the middle of Combat. Though it might make me play more viciously; they've Scryed the PCs and know their weaknesses.

    Etheral Doppleganger: Can't be done in combat, can't be done prior to combat. Otherwise, what a brutal possibility.

    Sarruhk: Okay... So... It says permanently. Does this mean that I could cast a buff that gives myself +6 Profane Bonus to Intelligence (just a random Mental stat example) and the MoMF Sarruhk's himself into keeping that Score permanently? I guess at the very least, the Sarruhk would bump everyone's Str and Con to itself at a minimum of al his allies...

    Living Spell: Are you suggesting I make some custom abomination HD 19 or 20 Living Spell? I could choose to make a Living Wish and then when I slam into a PC, the MoMF unleashes some sort of 9th level crap on everyone? That's a good example of dirty pool antics and fits the bill for a 'Standard Action Monster'. Or Living Summon Monolith or some other such crap...

    This is giving me some food for thought. Do you know of any more Free Action Monsters or Constitution-based Gaze Monsters?

    Edit2:
    Apparently, there are no good Gaze Monsters and/or they're all Charisma-based and/or they're Undead. Hell, I'm not even that picky. If the PCs looked at it to trigger that'd be great too.

    Edit3:
    I think I have found the most borken broken bahrokun monster for my build. The Humble Sharn from Monsters of Faerun.

    4 HD Aberration. Casts Spells as 7th level Sorcerer or 5th level Cleric. Each HD allows you to increase the caster level by 1. So, with my 19-22 HD available, he's a pretty damned high level caster. But everyone knows Mystic Theurges suck do to Action Economy.

    Except Sharn is always under the affects of Haste. But this was 3.0 Haste. 3.5 Haste took a significant nerf... Hmm... I wonder if there is errata for this divine beast... Why yes... Let's see what the Wizard's say:

    Sharns get two Standard Actions and a Move. Or if they wish, they could perform a Full Round Action and a Standard Action. The spell casting must be from the different lists.

    Hmm... Maybe not after a second look. Its listed as Spellcasting, not Ex or Su. I figured it could've been the Na but that just might be silliness talking. Though the Hex Portals are still obnoxious ways to threaten everything in sight.

    Damn, I thought I had found my final form for the MoMF after he's done jumping through some serious bs Wild Shape hoops. Still, it pumps out 9 attacks and threatens anybody with the Hex Portals...

    Edit4: I should really go to bed.

    Looks like I've hit a connumdrum. If I accept Spellcasting as Na which JaronK quite rightfully argued, then I am permitting myself some righteously abusive Wild Shapes. Nagahydra calls a bunch of spells with a Standard Action, Chronotyryn and Sharn become possible, quite abusive choices. There would be nothing more annoying than a Sharn under a Battletide pumping out Cleric Spells and Arcane Spellsurging Arcane Fusioned Sorcerer stuff...

    I got the idea from this woefully incomplete guide on monsters that break the action economy:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252260

    Revising my strategy, I'm thinking:
    Round 0 - Dire Tortoise, Standard Action: Attack, Swift Action: Wild Shape Beholder Overseer, Free Action: Eye Lasers
    Round 1 - Free Action: Eye Lasers, Swift Action: Wild Shape (Pouncer or Hydra), Move+Standard: Full Attacks of some kind

    Now that's a lock, it all comes down to how I'm going to interpret Spellcasting shenanigans. I never understood how silly RAW could be until this very moment.

    Edit5:
    I've decided against Spellcasting with Su. I think it'd be more of an interesting fight. The only question now is what last two levels and I'm going to bed! Here's my current build:

    Large Venerable Abeil Soldier, Wizard 1/Shapeshifter 1/Master of Many Forms 10/Warshaper 3/Fist of the Forest 1/??? 2 HD 24 HP 20d8+d4+d10+2dX+X DR 5/-
    AC 16 T 10 F 15 Fly Good 90
    Init +X; Fort +XX Ref +XX Will +XX Drone Sleep/Will XX
    BAB +X

    Stormwring 6d6/Reflex XX

    15' Claw +XX/+XX (2d6+X), 15' Stinger +XX (2d6+X plus PSN: 2d4/Fort XX)

    Str +16
    Dex +2
    Con +10
    Int +1
    Wis +5
    Cha +5
    +5 Stat Bumps
    After Venerable and the +4 Str/Con from Warshaper. Now I've just got to arrange via elite scores (15,14,13,12,10,8). With dumps, perhaps I should give my 15 to Charisma so I might be able to abuse some Supernatural Gazes or something. I'm probably going to use the Con2Will Feat to shore up Will Saves.

    Garden of Nature's Rage +4 Str/+4 Con on Wild Shapes
    Abilities
    +4 Str
    +4 Con
    +5'
    ImpNatAtk
    Con2AC
    Heal 32 HP/Wild Shape

    Feats
    - Precocious Apprentice
    - Alertness
    - Endurance
    - Great Fort
    - Power Attack X
    - Assume Supernatural Beholder Overseer
    - Con2Will?
    -
    -

    I'm going to bed, good night!
    Last edited by Tevesh; 2014-02-25 at 05:49 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Nihilarian's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Unfortunately the Shapeshifter requires 10 ranks in Concentration, so it won't get it sooner. You get it more efficiently (1 level of shapeshifter as opposed to 5 levels of druid) and it's not based on your class levels, so you have 9 levels that can be anything you want without losing potency.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: Master of Many Forms Enemy Suggestions on Forms

    Abeil have 6 HD, Wizard makes 7, +3 for Skills and that means that I can immediately dip into Shapeshifter.

    Here's my MoMF build and I'm really happy with it:
    Large Venerable Abeil Soldier, Wizard 1/Shapeshifter 1/Master of Many Forms 10/Warshaper 3/Fist of the Forest 1/Monk 1/Soul Eater 1 HD 24 HP 311 DR 5/-
    AC 33 T 26 F 16 Fly Good 90
    Init +2; Fort +31 Ref +24 Will +24 Drone Sleep/Will 30
    Imm Stun Crits
    BAB +21

    Stormwring 6d6/Reflex 28

    15' Claw +31/+31 (2d6+9), 15' Stinger +26 (2d6+4 plus PSN: 2d4/Fort 30)

    Abilities
    Con2AC
    Energy Drain
    13/D Wild Shape and Heal 32 HP

    Feats
    - Power Attack 21
    - Burst of Speed 12/D

    Large Dire Tortoise Form AC 48 T 23 F 31 Fort +34 Ref +20 Will +24
    Surprise 15' Bite +34 (2d8+18)

    Large Beholder Overseer Form AC 52 T 26 F 35 SR 38 Fort +33 Ref +23 Will +24
    15' Tentacles x8 +32 (2d6+10), 15' Bite x3 +27 (2d8+5 plus ImpGrb +35), 12 Eye Rays +22

    CL 14
    Chain Lighting
    Crushing Despair/Will 28
    Dominate/Will 28
    Greater Dispel Magic
    Hold/Will 28
    Polar Ray 14d6
    Spell Immunity
    Spell Turning
    Stun d4/Fort 28
    Suggestion/Will 28
    Telekinesis/Will 28
    Temporal Statis/Fort 28

    Huge Nagahydra Form AC 41 T 25 F 24 Fast Heal 15 Fort +32 Ref +24 Will +24
    15' Bite x7 +36 (3d6+14 plus PSN: d12 Con/Fort 30), Supreme Combat Reflexes

    Large Sunwyrm Form AC 42 T 27 FF 25 SR 38 DR 10/- Fort +30 Ref +27 Will +24 Move Action Incorp, Blindsight 120, Av. Fly 120, Imm Blind
    10' Bite +30 (3d8+8), 10' Claws x4 +25 (3d6+4)

    Now the question is how much Wildling Clasps do I go crazy with. I'm tempted with a +6 Con item because that would raise AC and HP... The entire encounter is some really dirty pool shenanigans... But level 18 is supposed to be ridiculous. Thank you all for your help.
    Last edited by Tevesh; 2014-02-25 at 02:08 PM.

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