EMPIRE! Community World-Building Game III: Prepare Your Inbox! (Messages Are Coming)

[Silverbit]

Oh dear Rain, I hope things get better for you. See you some other time, hopefully.

[Elemental]

For personal real life issues which have recently arisen, I will have to bow out. Unfortunately, I do not foresee a resolution in the near future.

See ya.

Oh dear. This is most unfortunate. I hope everything works out.

[Lord_Burch]

For personal real life issues which have recently arisen, I will have to bow out. Unfortunately, I do not foresee a resolution in the near future.

See ya.

I hope that it is nothing life-threatening to you or your family, then. It was good to have you play, and I am sure we are all sorry to see you go.

[lt_murgen]

For personal real life issues which have recently arisen, I will have to bow out. Unfortunately, I do not foresee a resolution in the near future.

See ya.

WHile I certainly do not wish to pry, I do wish you the best possible resolution to your problems. You will be missed.

[BladeofObliviom]

For personal real life issues which have recently arisen, I will have to bow out. Unfortunately, I do not foresee a resolution in the near future.

See ya.

I'm very sorry to hear that! Your stuff has been fun and interesting to read, and your mention of a lost trading partner was actually part of what inspired me to leave hints of some lost history in the Glazfell, though I was leaving it open as to whether that was them or someone completely different or the doom of the world sealed for ten thousand years or something.

Good luck with your personal problems, though; I've heard that those can be pretty nasty depending on the circumstances.

[Arutha]

For personal real life issues which have recently arisen, I will have to bow out. Unfortunately, I do not foresee a resolution in the near future.

See ya.

What! But your stuff is so cool! your fluff is the best fluff. Ah well, I hope every thing goes well for you and things get better.

[BladeofObliviom]

Spoiler: Elemental, Burch, Quintonbeck only

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(Technically I shouldn't be involved here anymore, but I also haven't technically reentered the game yet so I don't feel too bad looking over a more or less public treaty with a faction that I only stopped being part of due to RL woes.)

Um, treaty people in the Cantus Sai thread? I feel like I should point out that those treaty terms are literally impossible. Crima doesn't have two units of Warships to give away, because one of them sank during the battle.

Also that treaty is frankly insulting, but I'm not the one signing it.

[QuintonBeck]

Spoiler: Elemental, Burch, Quintonbeck only

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(Technically I shouldn't be involved here anymore, but I also haven't technically reentered the game yet so I don't feel too bad looking over a more or less public treaty with a faction that I only stopped being part of due to RL woes.)

Um, treaty people in the Cantus Sai thread? I feel like I should point out that those treaty terms are literally impossible. Crima doesn't have two units of Warships to give away, because one of them sank during the battle.

Also that treaty is frankly insulting, but I'm not the one signing it.

Spoiler: Response

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Well then, just give Celero the ships. If they're not actually warships as seems to be, they're just meh.

TBH I was expecting more resistance or discussion but I didn't think it was insulting

[Arkhosia]

I edited Felitora!

[BladeofObliviom]

Spoiler: Response

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Well then, just give Celero the ships. If they're not actually warships as seems to be, they're just meh.

TBH I was expecting more resistance or discussion but I didn't think it was insulting

Spoiler: Response for Quinton only

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...

It's insulting because there is literally no give on the GC's part, but significant incursions into the UN's military and political functionality. The terms can basically be summed up as thus:

1) The UN stops attacking Celero, or else.

2) The UN downsizes their army, but the GC doesn't have to because they're already so peaceful and demilitarized.

3) The UN gives some of their military to the GC (and one of their technologies in the original draft too), without any concessions on the GC side.

4) The UN gives up any claim on a certain outside territory, without any concession on the GC part. Not even something like "In return, Keldagrim won't push its claim on Sulvan's Fury."

[5]) So long as the UN does all these things, the GC doesn't come and wreck their faces within the next few turns.



This isn't a peace treaty; these are terms of surrender. In fact, the terms aren't even all that far away from the Treaty of Versailles. Except, the UN isn't anywhere near crushed like Germany was. In fact, while the UN technically lost the first battle of Celero in that they didn't gain a foothold, they actually took less overall casualties than the GC did.

Basically, one battle deals a relatively equal injury to both sides, and neither really wants to continue the war. Neither is likely to gain much from continuing to push, and one is fighting a war on the other side that they can't afford to ignore. The only thing that the Coalition is offering, as per this treaty, is a promise that they won't come and beat up the UN within the next three or four turns.

This might be worth something if the GC were actually in a position to do serious damage to the UN within the next three or four turns, which they're not because they're in a multi-front war, facing the possibility of internal rebellion, and if they're really unlucky might also get attacked by the Salterri in a turn or so. Basically, the GC is offering nothing.


If I were the one receiving this treaty, I'd assume that you were planning to simply weaken me by downsizing my army and make me able to be ignored for a few turns while you crush the other front, so then you could come and deal with me when you don't have a second front to worry about and I'm not in a position to defend myself because I'd made my army smaller, not prepared myself for war in the meantime, and handed over some of my stuff to you in the first place.

Seriously, it's an insult and there really isn't any way of getting around that. But like I said, I'm not the one signing it.

EDIT:

I edited Felitora!

It's a little bit better, I suppose, though it could still do with more detail and formatting. And, you know, finishing.

Why aren't you using Wombat's template? It really does make things a lot easier.

[QuintonBeck]

Spoiler: Response for Quinton only

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...

It's insulting because there is literally no give on the GC's part, but significant incursions into the UN's military and political functionality. The terms can basically be summed up as thus:

1) The UN stops attacking Celero, or else.

2) The UN downsizes their army, but the GC doesn't have to because they're already so peaceful and demilitarized.

3) The UN gives some of their military to the GC (and one of their technologies in the original draft too), without any concessions on the GC side.

4) The UN gives up any claim on a certain outside territory, without any concession on the GC part. Not even something like "In return, Keldagrim won't push its claim on Sulvan's Fury."

[5]) So long as the UN does all these things, the GC doesn't come and wreck their faces within the next few turns.



This isn't a peace treaty; these are terms of surrender. In fact, the terms aren't even all that far away from the Treaty of Versailles. Except, the UN isn't anywhere near crushed like Germany was. In fact, while the UN technically lost the first battle of Celero in that they didn't gain a foothold, they actually took less overall casualties than the GC did.

Basically, one battle deals a relatively equal injury to both sides, and neither really wants to continue the war. Neither is likely to gain much from continuing to push, and one is fighting a war on the other side that they can't afford to ignore. The only thing that the Coalition is offering, as per this treaty, is a promise that they won't come and beat up the UN within the next three or four turns.

This might be worth something if the GC were actually in a position to do serious damage to the UN within the next three or four turns, which they're not because they're in a multi-front war, facing the possibility of internal rebellion, and if they're really unlucky might also get attacked by the Salterri in a turn or so. Basically, the GC is offering nothing.


If I were the one receiving this treaty, I'd assume that you were planning to simply weaken me by downsizing my army and make me able to be ignored for a few turns while you crush the other front, so then you could come and deal with me when you don't have a second front to worry about and I'm not in a position to defend myself because I'd made my army smaller, not prepared myself for war in the meantime, and handed over some of my stuff to you in the first place.

Seriously, it's an insult and there really isn't any way of getting around that. But like I said, I'm not the one signing it.

Spoiler: Blade

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I guess you missed the part where y'all attacked us, which is why it's initially listed as it is, since y'all were the aggressors.

I agree there could have been more give and take, and I went in fully expecting negotiations to take place, but they didn't. Things were accepted as is. I'm not going to go in giving things up that I'd be willing to give up, that's reserved for the back and forth of it. It's not my fault your former allies didn't negotiate. It was a rough draft with demands from one side, I intended to see demands from the other and then we'd compromise but that didn't happen. Which is fine by me but don't act like I was trying to manipulate anyone or insult anyone. I just listed my side, expected to hear theirs but they just said OK to mine.

[BladeofObliviom]

Spoiler: Blade

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I guess you missed the part where y'all attacked us, which is why it's initially listed as it is, since y'all were the aggressors.

I agree there could have been more give and take, and I went in fully expecting negotiations to take place, but they didn't. Things were accepted as is. I'm not going to go in giving things up that I'd be willing to give up, that's reserved for the back and forth of it. It's not my fault your former allies didn't negotiate. It was a rough draft with demands from one side, I intended to see demands from the other and then we'd compromise but that didn't happen. Which is fine by me but don't act like I was trying to manipulate anyone or insult anyone. I just listed my side, expected to hear theirs but they just said OK to mine.

Spoiler: Quinton

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If you'll notice, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything. Just explaining why I would find such a treaty insulting if it were pointed at me.

Nevertheless, no, you really didn't just list demands. Presentation matters. It would have been a list of demands if you had simply listed demands and labeled it as such, but this was presented like the final terms of a treaty instead, from having an official title as such to enumerated terms to carefully-thought-out language and word selection. Indeed, the character you speak through even refers to it as "...what we believe to be an amicable treaty to end this war."

When somebody refers to something as amicable, the implication usually taken is mutually amicable, not "what I want, but feel free to suggest changes." Perhaps it wasn't your intention, but your presentation basically amounts to "Here's the deal. Take it or leave it."

You state that you were expecting more negotiation to take place, and I don't doubt that you were. However, nothing written down in your list of demands or in the post surrounding it gives any indication of that.

I'm in agreement that the remaining UN members just going "sure" and signing it as-is was REALLY dumb, though.

[aspi]

For personal real life issues which have recently arisen, I will have to bow out. Unfortunately, I do not foresee a resolution in the near future.

See ya.

I'm saddened to hear this, but glad to have joined the game in time to see a part of the story you built. Thank you for taking the time to bring the conversation to an ending, I appreciate that a lot and wish you all the best.

I hope that one day the Lost will resurface

[Zap Dynamic]

To whom do I direct questions about adjusting trade agreements with Crima? I'm a little in the dark as to everything going on with the UN, but it looks like Blade has given up the region. If it's becoming an NPC region I'd like to negotiate a little less generous trade terms.

[BladeofObliviom]

To whom do I direct questions about adjusting trade agreements with Crima? I'm a little in the dark as to everything going on with the UN, but it looks like Blade has given up the region. If it's becoming an NPC region I'd like to negotiate a little less generous trade terms.

Burch, in this case; With Umajin's death and the fact that I'm not having his heir actually ruling, he's first in line to inherit the region.

[Lord_Burch]

To whom do I direct questions about adjusting trade agreements with Crima? I'm a little in the dark as to everything going on with the UN, but it looks like Blade has given up the region. If it's becoming an NPC region I'd like to negotiate a little less generous trade terms.

It would go to me; if you'd like, we can roll any discussion into the Cantus Sai thread.

[QuintonBeck]

Spoiler: Quinton

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If you'll notice, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything. Just explaining why I would find such a treaty insulting if it were pointed at me.

Nevertheless, no, you really didn't just list demands. Presentation matters. It would have been a list of demands if you had simply listed demands and labeled it as such, but this was presented like the final terms of a treaty instead, from having an official title as such to enumerated terms to carefully-thought-out language and word selection. Indeed, the character you speak through even refers to it as "...what we believe to be an amicable treaty to end this war."

When somebody refers to something as amicable, the implication usually taken is mutually amicable, not "what I want, but feel free to suggest changes." Perhaps it wasn't your intention, but your presentation basically amounts to "Here's the deal. Take it or leave it."

You state that you were expecting more negotiation to take place, and I don't doubt that you were. However, nothing written down in your list of demands or in the post surrounding it gives any indication of that.

I'm in agreement that the remaining UN members just going "sure" and signing it as-is was REALLY dumb, though.

Spoiler: Blade

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Well, yeah, you're right really. But I mean, I'm gonna present it in a way to just get it signed cause that would work out best for me. When I said amicable, I did mean for us not necessarily for them. I'll admit I was subtly manipulating it with words, I guess I'm just shocked it worked at all much less without any protest at all.

See, this is why I already miss you in the Union. Someone to call **** when you see it. Ah well, perhaps there may yet be conflict over Yphinne wanting to bring about an icy apocalypse. One can only hope.

[HisHolyAngel]

NOOOOO RAIN MY LOVE!

Totally unrelated, but you guys should totes check out my hot new avatar!

[BladeofObliviom]

Spoiler: Blade

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Well, yeah, you're right really. But I mean, I'm gonna present it in a way to just get it signed cause that would work out best for me. When I said amicable, I did mean for us not necessarily for them. I'll admit I was subtly manipulating it with words, I guess I'm just shocked it worked at all much less without any protest at all.

See, this is why I already miss you in the Union. Someone to call **** when you see it. Ah well, perhaps there may yet be conflict over Yphinne wanting to bring about an icy apocalypse. One can only hope.

Spoiler: Quinton

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I never meant to say that you did anything wrong (except maybe non-gunboat diplomacy ). It was a good play that you managed to make work, there's no denying that.

Respecting one's adversaries when they show skill is something we have in common, I think. Just like the real Mongols. Kinda.


Also, shh! You know nothing!

Totally unrelated, but you guys should totes check out my hot new avatar!

To be honest, I assumed it was regular Angemon until I read your signature. Most of the details that differentiate the two are lost in stick figure format. I still approve of the choice, though.

[Logic]

Spoiler: The GC/UN treaty

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I gotta say, when bargaining, you should always start at the position that is best for you, and worst for your bargaining partner. You eventually hammer out a compromise, with neither side getting everything they want, but enough to make everyone as happy as they can be and not at odds with each other.

It looks to me like the UN delegates didn't care what the terms were, they just accepted the strong GC position immediately without providing a counter-proposal, which is a terrible bargaining position to take.

It's too bad I am awfully busy this week, because Celero is in a position to offer slightly better terms to the UN, provided they trust the word of the tiny little buffer nation.

[Lord_Burch]

NOOOOO RAIN MY LOVE!

Totally unrelated, but you guys should totes check out my hot new avatar!

Is that a Digimon of some sort? Is Digimon even the word I'm thinking of?

[Morph Bark]

Fabulasness aside, a short note to those who posted in the Blazing Temple thread: I will reply to those posts soon. I have not kept tabs on the thread for a week and kinda fell off on it, even this more upanddown week.

I think I have responded to all PM questions. Thread questions will follow soon.

[HisHolyAngel]

To be honest, I assumed it was regular Angemon until I read your signature. Most of the details that differentiate the two are lost in stick figure format. I still approve of the choice, though.

Okay, so angemon doesn't show any skin, all his fabric is blue, not pink and much less flowy, he has six wings instead of eight, he corries a rod, and he doesn't have little wingy things on his helmet. Sorry, I take digimon very seriously. Well... I take Angewomon very seriously.

Is that a Digimon of some sort? Is Digimon even the word I'm thinking of?

Yes. Yes it is.

Fabulasness aside

I see what you did there.

[QuintonBeck]

Spoiler: Quinton

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I never meant to say that you did anything wrong (except maybe non-gunboat diplomacy ). It was a good play that you managed to make work, there's no denying that.

Respecting one's adversaries when they show skill is something we have in common, I think. Just like the real Mongols. Kinda.


Also, shh! You know nothing!

Spoiler: Blade

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And I shouldn't have taken it that way, sorry about that. Thanks, I appreciate it.

Absolutely man, you seriously have been my favorite foe. Hopefully we can run into each other with your new region.

Spoiler: The GC/UN treaty

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I gotta say, when bargaining, you should always start at the position that is best for you, and worst for your bargaining partner. You eventually hammer out a compromise, with neither side getting everything they want, but enough to make everyone as happy as they can be and not at odds with each other.

It looks to me like the UN delegates didn't care what the terms were, they just accepted the strong GC position immediately without providing a counter-proposal, which is a terrible bargaining position to take.

It's too bad I am awfully busy this week, because Celero is in a position to offer slightly better terms to the UN, provided they trust the word of the tiny little buffer nation.

Spoiler

Show

Agreed and such was my plan and action. It worked very differently. :P

I'd agree to more but... Looks like we're negotiating a bit now though so that's good/bad ;D

[Lord_Burch]

I can post in the Temple thread beyond the current turn, right? I've been thinking, before his death, Lord David goes on a spiritual quest.

... Actually, Zap, can he bring Cassandra along as well? Or... Someway I could RP her again. Since she is the only other character I've RP'ed here.

EDIT: Also, QB, the ships part of the treaty is off, right? Since the ships are nothing special.

[Zap Dynamic]

Absolutely, Burch! It's a hop, skip, and a jump to the Temple from Raaneka, and she wouldn't deny a request from her father anyway.

[QuintonBeck]

I can post in the Temple thread beyond the current turn, right? I've been thinking, before his death, Lord David goes on a spiritual quest.

... Actually, Zap, can he bring Cassandra along as well? Or... Someway I could RP her again. Since she is the only other character I've RP'ed here.

EDIT: Also, QB, the ships part of the treaty is off, right? Since the ships are nothing special.

Well, no, cause Crima still has to demilitarize. So you can ship the leftover flotilla to Celero and demilitarize a unit to meet that.

[Lord_Burch]

Excepting the fact I don't actually want to give up my only unit of ships. Besides, pretty soon, I'll meet that requirement when a unit dies in the HG war.

[Morph Bark]

I can post in the Temple thread beyond the current turn, right? I've been thinking, before his death, Lord David goes on a spiritual quest.

Yes, but preferably no, considering how things can change things a lot, which would make that confusing for the state of that RP bit. Can do though.


Anyhoo, due to the influx of players, I've sent the newer ones an expanded map to pick a region from, rather than have them claim one that is already being colonized. Should they reserve one of those, that should be up here soonishly or such.

Well then, I'm off for now. To business and hibernatory!

[Lord_Burch]

Yes, but preferably no, considering how things can change things a lot, which would make that confusing for the state of that RP bit. Can do though.


Anyhoo, due to the influx of players, I've sent the newer ones an expanded map to pick a region from, rather than have them claim one that is already being colonized. Should they reserve one of those, that should be up here soonishly or such.

Well then, I'm off for now. To business and hibernatory!

I'll wait till next turn to post, then, since that is when he was planing to step down.