Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. II: It's A Magical Thread

[Sith_Happens]

So was the Hub in the US? An American officer arrived to shut it down... but when we first saw it it was the base of an operation in GEORGIA... (the country, not the state), which is on the other side of the world. If SHIELD is worldwide, don't they have any closer bases?

My guess is that SHIELD facilities are extraterritorial, which means that Talbot can claim to technically not be invading whichever country the Hub is in fact surrounded by.

[LaZodiac]

So, just seen episode 17 (Turn, turn, turn) and unholy fracking crap! a) Glad me and Mum made the effort go go and see Cap 2 last week and b) I don't even know what is going on anymore!

Fracking heck, I knew Cap 2 was going have some major implications for the show, but DAMN. Even I wasn't expecting that - twist on twist on twist!

I REALLLY hope this gets a second season!

(I suspect we're a few episode behind the US, so I'm only pocking my lack-of-nose in, but I just had to vent somewhere...!)

YEah, you're two episodes behind us.

Also, no, not "twist on twist on twist", it's "turn on turn on turn". It's even the title

[Aotrs Commander]

YEah, you're two episodes behind us.

It's so annoying! I preferred it when we were only two days behind!

Still, the fact you guys also had a big break in the middle makes me feel a bit better, since at the time, it looked like you would be just finishing the season as we were getting started again.

[Sapphire Guard]

My guess is that SHIELD facilities are extraterritorial, which means that Talbot can claim to technically not be invading whichever country the Hub is in fact surrounded by.

But SHIELD aren't a US institution(they're answerable to that council), so he has no better claim than anybody else.

[Sith_Happens]

But SHIELD aren't a US institution(they're answerable to that council), so he has no better claim than anybody else.

He doesn't have any worse a claim either though. At this point, SHIELD's stuff belongs to whoever can get there first, and the US is very good at getting places first.

[Joran]

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So was the Hub in the US? An American officer arrived to shut it down... but when we first saw it it was the base of an operation in GEORGIA... (the country, not the state), which is on the other side of the world. If SHIELD is worldwide, don't they have any closer bases?

Spoiler: Hub

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Well, Georgia is next door to Turkey (a NATO ally), so it's plausible a NATO operation would be headed by the US. That said, the distance from the Hub to Canada didn't seem that long...

It's hilarious that they spend so much effort to make some details right (Ward under interrogation with the fingernail trick, the penny in the door, the cellists' hands and music) and we have no idea where the Hub is.

He doesn't have any worse a claim either though. At this point, SHIELD's stuff belongs to whoever can get there first, and the US is very good at getting places first.

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Especially as part of a NATO coalition. Most countries in Europe are at least friendly with NATO if not a part of it. If I had a heavily armed, secret organization on my territory that just went rogue, I'd want the world's most powerful military to help me clear it out.

[grolim]

onr thing that bothered me about the preview for next week they showed at end of the episode...

Spoiler: undefined

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she tells Ward he is #1 on everyones most wanted list
and they showed a wanted poster
.
.
.
.
.
but didn't Skye JUST go through and "erase" everyone?
even reminding Coulson that "once done it can't be undone"............

that.....is a rather bad lapse on the writers part

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Not really. She erased who he WAS. But if she finds out and it gets out he killed Hand, attacked and looted the Fridge, etc they may no longer know who he is but he would still jump to the top of the list. Even then, the records are gone but the people who knew him and would recognize him would still remember they just would not have files.

[Thrawn183]

Winter Soldier actually left me with a different idea of what is going on in the MCU than Agents of SHIELD.

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I really thought most of the Hydra threat was finished. The scene at the end with them going around arresting Hydra agents really made me feel like Hydra had lost and in the future SHIELD would be dealing with the ramifications of its past actions. This whole deal with Hydra having the clear upper hand feels a bit strange.

[LaZodiac]

Winter Soldier actually left me with a different idea of what is going on in the MCU than Agents of SHIELD.

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I really thought most of the Hydra threat was finished. The scene at the end with them going around arresting Hydra agents really made me feel like Hydra had lost and in the future SHIELD would be dealing with the ramifications of its past actions. This whole deal with Hydra having the clear upper hand feels a bit strange.

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Just because they lost a head doesn't mean they're dead. This is explicitly Hydra's MO.

[dehro]

What I don't get is this:if SHIELD is an international organisation, on what authority is a US senate comittee conducting hearings and inquiries and giving pretty shield agents the stink-eye?

[LaZodiac]

What I don't get is this:if SHIELD is an international organisation, on what authority is a US senate comittee conducting hearings and inquiries and giving pretty shield agents the stink-eye?

Their own authority. Spoilers, people be corrupt!

Hell, as we saw in Winter Soldier:

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Hydra has infiltrated more then Shield.

[dehro]

Their own authority. Spoilers, people be corrupt!

Hell, as we saw in Winter Soldier:

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Hydra has infiltrated more then Shield.

still not buying it. I don't think that if someone in Interpol is messing up, the US authorities or indeed any single government get to point towards the naughty corner. it should be handled by an international authority.
say that the US authority is invested with the power to investigate things on behalf of that international authority, then still, I don't think it would involve a senate comittee.. but rather a pool of detectives, military or federal, as may be agreed upon... certainly not a political figure though

[thorgrim29]

Maybe since SHIELD officially disbanded jurisdiction over what they did ends up in whatever country they were acting in's hands. So we see the US hearings because:
-That's where the film took place (meta reason)
-The Trikellion is in Washington, so even in-universe that's where the biggest investigation is.

And Talbot going into Canada to chase the agents isn't so surprising... Canada and the US are probably the most integrated countries outside of the EU and we pretty much depend on the USAF for air defence, so an air force guy going in to arest american fugitives is not super surprising

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Winter Soldier actually left me with a different idea of what is going on in the MCU than Agents of SHIELD.

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I really thought most of the Hydra threat was finished. The scene at the end with them going around arresting Hydra agents really made me feel like Hydra had lost and in the future SHIELD would be dealing with the ramifications of its past actions. This whole deal with Hydra having the clear upper hand feels a bit strange.

I think it is a time line issue...

Spoiler: cap WS spoilers

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Even though 90% of the movie is over a long weekend or so, I get the feeling the last ten minutes or so was over a month or so.

I think we are in-between Cap falling into the water and the committee hearing right now. I also think hill hasn't gone to stark industries yet.

talbit and colson and the hub are happening but the movie isn't over yet

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

still not buying it. I don't think that if someone in Interpol is messing up, the US authorities or indeed any single government get to point towards the naughty corner. it should be handled by an international authority.
say that the US authority is invested with the power to investigate things on behalf of that international authority, then still, I don't think it would involve a senate comittee.. but rather a pool of detectives, military or federal, as may be agreed upon... certainly not a political figure though

I think the US oversteps it's bounds all the time in the real world, but in the marvel comics it's worse... I think the US military sent people after Baner in other countries as well...

[LaZodiac]

talbit and colson and the hub are happening but the movie isn't over yet[/sblock]

We're at least two days after the movie. In the episode where we see scenes from the movie, we see the Helicarriers smashing into the Triskellion.

[Sapphire Guard]

The Hub can't be in Canada, or it couldn't have run the mission in Georgia. Or else SHIELD has no facilities closer, which would be pretty dumb on their part.

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Most countries care quite a lot about things like jurisdiction. The US would overstep its bounds if it could get away with it, but in this situation, it can't since everyone knows where SHIELD operates now.

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

We're at least two days after the movie. In the episode where we see scenes from the movie, we see the Helicarriers smashing into the Triskellion.

um... that isn't the end of the movie...

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there is still the scene with the congress hearing and the cemetery and hill going to starks office... I don't think that was all the same week let alone the same day. Infact I bet that at the end of the season we will hear about BW testifying infront of the congress hearings...

we are past the fight but not the aftermath

[Sith_Happens]

What I don't get is this:if SHIELD is an international organisation, on what authority is a US senate comittee conducting hearings and inquiries and giving pretty shield agents the stink-eye?

The authority any country has to investigate and (if need be) prosecute possible acts of espionage against it.

[The New Bruceski]

Spoiler boxes are (spoiler) not (sblock)

[HardcoreD&Dgirl]

Spoiler boxes are (spoiler) not (sblock)

opps thanks

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by LaZodiac
We're at least two days after the movie. In the episode where we see scenes from the movie, we see the Helicarriers smashing into the Triskellion.

We're after that point, but I agree that we're still in the last minutes of the movie, since congressional hearings and military tribunals take time to organize. "After the fight but not the aftermath" sums it up nicely.

[LaZodiac]

We're after that point, but I agree that we're still in the last minutes of the movie, since congressional hearings and military tribunals take time to organize. "After the fight but not the aftermath" sums it up nicely.

Yes I actually had forgotten that! Good points all you guys who brought that up!

Also, I guess the timing on deleting Coulson and crew's identity came at a right time. A little bit before Widow dumped it all on Wikileaks, thus further preventing the Avengers from being made aware of Coulson's existence.

[The New Bruceski]

Yes I actually had forgotten that! Good points all you guys who brought that up!

Also, I guess the timing on deleting Coulson and crew's identity came at a right time. A little bit before Widow dumped it all on Wikileaks, thus further preventing the Avengers from being made aware of Coulson's existence.

While I'm sure some of the Avengers might be looking through the SHIELD files for anything interesting, even Jarvis is going to have to dig for a while before telling Stark "there's something here that might interest you." They did a total filedump onto the internet, and things did not come flagged into "bureaucracy" "embarassing" "war crime" and "playing God" categories. The easiest way to keep a secret is for nobody to know there is one, and Coulson's death was convincing enough that nobody's gonna say "let's check Phil's file, see if he's really dead."

[SeeDarkly_X]

That info dump may not have been the big deal it's being made to seem. I don't recall exactly what was said in those scenes but my sense was that it was more of the "bureaucratic paper-trail" being released, not every "Classified/Eyes Only" secret.

I could be wrong, but there is a degree to which we just have not seen enough of the repercussions of that info-release to make any clear assessment of what was in it or what the reactions ought to be.

[Sith_Happens]

That info dump may not have been the big deal it's being made to seem. I don't recall exactly what was said in those scenes but my sense was that it was more of the "bureaucratic paper-trail" being released, not every "Classified/Eyes Only" secret.

I could be wrong, but there is a degree to which we just have not seen enough of the repercussions of that info-release to make any clear assessment of what was in it or what the reactions ought to be.

I definitely remember something to the effect of "every secret SHIELD's ever had."

[huttj509]

I definitely remember something to the effect of "every secret SHIELD's ever had."

Yes, but half the secrets are secrets that they're secrets. :-)

[grolim]

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Don't worry, I can take ward.

Ok, Coulson has been eating his wheaties.

Also, Lola!!!

Coulson Smash!

[Palanan]

So, another generally good episode, if not quite as intense as the last two.

First, the best lines:

Spoiler: As If There's Any Doubt

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Which, as always, go to Coulson:

"If I come out, will you shoot me? Because then I won't come out."

"...I should've knocked on wood there."

"Trust me, when this is all over I'm gonna have a major freak-out."

Name-dropping of the week:

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Again with Romanoff. She's been mentioned in virtually every single episode.

Plus Pepper, Stark, and probably one or two others I missed.

Least impressive guest star:

Spoiler: Should've Been Momma May

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Alas, two minutes of Mother May packed more awesome than twenty minutes of Maria Hill. She was tremendously disappointing as a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent tonight, and came across as essentially a sellout who packed it in once the pretty helicarriers came down. Rather than being the feisty diehard we've seen on the big screen, her character was flattened into a rather tinny voice-of-reason caricature.

It's sad to see this done to one of my favorite secondary characters from The Avengers. In the movie she was tough, professional and utterly committed. But now, rather than chasing down every last HYDRA goon to throttle barehanded, she's suddenly working on Capitol Hill for Tony Stark?!

I enjoyed her first scene on the phone in D.C., because I always like those moments when the characters show the human side of being heroic, and her talking shop with Pepper was great fun. Sadly, the character went downhill from there.

The best I can manage--and this is giving her the benefit of the doubt--is that Fury's alleged death shook her to the core, and rather than try picking up the pieces of S.H.I.E.L.D. she took refuge with Tony Stark and his army of lawyers. But even as I write it, that just sounds lame. Maria Hill should have been at least as hardcore as Victoria Hand ever was, and just as committed to rebuilding S.H.I.E.L.D. from the ashes. For her to be reduced to a conversational foil to Coulson, and then walk out on him, is ridiculous and sad.

What goes on in his twisted brain?

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Ward was somewhere between scary and confused. We've established beyond all possible doubt that he's not a triple agent--he really whacked Hand, he really works for Garrett, he really played everyone and anyone on his "mission."

And yet, he still seemed to be trying to convince Skye that he was actually NOT an evil scuzzbag lying sociopath. He actually, almost seemed to believe it, which said "psychosis" rather than "master spy."

Best human moment:

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Fitz, in complete denial about Ward, having a meltdown in the Providence medlab. His denial and anger were thoroughly human and surprisingly touching. The poor guy really believed in Ward.

Hokey contrived ridiculosity:

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May, digging into Coulson's coffin to retrive a flash drive. Which has Stunning Great Secrets inside.

Seriously? Come on. It's not like anyone would EVER think to look in the coffin.

The Stinger Reveal:

Spoiler: The Mastermind of T.A.H.I.T.I.

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Now that's just stupid.

Seriously, the show took a sudden giant nosedive in the last two minutes. That's bad writing and a lack of imagination.

The past three episodes had almost, ALMOST convinced me to splurge on the DVDs when the first season comes out. But no. Not anymore.

.

[leafman]

So, another generally good episode, if not quite as intense as the last two.


Name-dropping of the week:

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Again with Romanoff. She's been mentioned in virtually every single episode.

Plus Pepper, Stark, and probably one or two others I missed.

Spoiler: The one you missed

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When Hill is talking to Pepper on the phone and she calls Congress kindergarteners, she mentions them asking "who or what a Man-Thing is". So, Man-Thing was possibly locked up in the fridge? I doubt we'll ever see him, but a nice Easter egg anyway.