The Index of the Giant's Comments III - We've Left a Banana In Charge

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Kind of unnecessary at this point, but I also don't think it needs to be included.

[137beth]

New post, though I'm not sure if it covers much new ground aside from people appreciate #959.

IIRC there was another time where The Giant said to a poster that if that person didn't like the strip then that person should stop reading it. He specifically asked for that quote not to be in the index. I think this quote shouldn't be included for the same reason Rich gave back then.
Not that it makes much of a difference, since everyone already seems to be in agreement that this quote shouldn't be included.

[FujinAkari]

IIRC there was another time where The Giant said to a poster that if that person didn't like the strip then that person should stop reading it. He specifically asked for that quote not to be in the index. I think this quote shouldn't be included for the same reason Rich gave back then.

You do recall correctly, and I agree. This post is the result of Rich getting fed up in one specific issue and is not applicable to everyone who may have a complaint at all times, it should not be preserved for easy linking.

[Jasdoif]

LGBT Characters Why there aren't more in the comic. Also see this, and what the Giant is doing about it now.

#882

04/08/2013

Incidentally....Is it my banan-imagination, or have we had an unusually low amount of discussion on this latest batch of quotes?

Here's some discussion then I'd prefer it if we refrain from using the word "now" in this entry and change it to "as of # (comic number)" or "as of (date of linked post)".

I see what you mean about using "now"...but at the same time I don't think the tone that putting in a precise comic number or date might have. How about if we simply omit "now" without replacing it ("what the Giant is doing about it.")?

The two really address one and the same subject, so I'd rather not separate them. On the other hand, Hinjo's color-blindness is important as a signpost, because it's memorable. I'm proposing a compromise:

The Importance Of Messages in Stories "The author should not leave out his or her message so as not to disrupt the delicate story." See also here: "The story is a tool for getting my ideas across, nothing more." On a totally related note: Hinjo is color-blind.

#959

07/25/2014

Pretty good! If I may suggest a slight paraphrase....

The Importance Of Messages in Stories "The author should not leave out his or her message so as not to disrupt the delicate story." More here: "The story is a tool for getting my ideas across, nothing more." (Also, Hinjo is color-blind.)

#959

07/25/2014

IIRC there was another time where The Giant said to a poster that if that person didn't like the strip then that person should stop reading it. He specifically asked for that quote not to be in the index. I think this quote shouldn't be included for the same reason Rich gave back then.
Not that it makes much of a difference, since everyone already seems to be in agreement that this quote shouldn't be included.

You do recall correctly, and I agree. This post is the result of Rich getting fed up in one specific issue and is not applicable to everyone who may have a complaint at all times, it should not be preserved for easy linking.

Indeed.

[Gwynfrid]

I see what you mean about using "now"...but at the same time I don't think the tone that putting in a precise comic number or date might have. How about if we simply omit "now" without replacing it ("what the Giant is doing about it.")?

"Now" is fine, since the date "now" refers to appears right here in the table.

Pretty good! If I may suggest a slight paraphrase....

I see you removed my humble attempt at humor. Oh well. Not a big deal.

[Gift Jeraff]

I say we include it.

[Jasdoif]

"Now" is fine, since the date "now" refers to appears right here in the table.

The date column in the table is for the main quote in the entry...which will still be the April-2013 LGBT Characters in this particular case.

I see you removed my humble attempt at humor. Oh well. Not a big deal.

I'm trying to avoid comedy in the descriptions that go into the Index. Both to maintain the tone the Index had when I took it over, and because it seems the most reliable way to prevent banana jokes from being enshrined. I'm confident most of the forum population would get tired of reading through banana jokes long before I get tired of making them, and putting any in the Index would make a slippery slope. Because it has a peel.

I say we include it.

"It" being...banana jokes?

[Gwynfrid]

The date column in the table is for the main quote in the entry...which will still be the April-2013 LGBT Characters in this particular case.

Hm, I had missed that fine point.

I'm trying to avoid comedy in the descriptions that go into the Index. Both to maintain the tone the Index had when I took it over, and because it seems the most reliable way to prevent banana jokes from being enshrined. I'm confident most of the forum population would get tired of reading through banana jokes long before I get tired of making them, and putting any in the Index would make a slippery slope. Because it has a peel.

You win this thread, Sir. Which is a little unfair, since you own it. But it's a win nonetheless

[Gwynfrid]

Haley's decision to stop using gendered insults is a small step in her character growth. Since being with Elan, she's been trying to be a better person.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Haley's decision to stop using gendered results is a small step in her character growth. Since being with Elan, she's been trying to be a better person.

I believe you mean gendered insults.

GW

[Gwynfrid]

I believe you mean gendered insults.

GW

Where? Where?

[137beth]

For the "now" debate, I'd suggest leaving the time out of the quote summary. People who want to know when he said it can click on the link which goes to the actual quote, which has a date next to it.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

For the "now" debate, I'd suggest leaving the time out of the quote summary. People who want to know when he said it can click on the link which goes to the actual quote, which has a date next to it.

This makes sense to me. I'm also in favor of including the new quote.

[Jasdoif]

OK, so if we add a "Writing" section...I think I could move "Storytelling Mistakes?", "Plot Holes", "Writing Process and Story Development", the new "Real World Intent", "Character Names" (probably calling it Character Naming since that's slightly more accurate for the quotes there) and "The Story as a D&D Spoof" to it. Giving us a 7 and a 6...which is still higher than the 4, but should be more manageable to look through than the 13 there is now.

Alright, this is done now.

---

Hm, I had missed that fine point.

Well, to be fair I was the one who looked up all the dates and comic numbers back in the first Index thread; this point might not be common knowledge o_o

You win this thread, Sir. Which is a little unfair, since you own it. But it's a win nonetheless

I think "owning" it is a technicality, since the curator is only supposed to maintain the first post in accordance with community consensus. So yay, I won the thread I curate! Huh, wonder if that constitutes a conflict of interest....

Haley's decision to stop using gendered insults is a small step in her character growth. Since being with Elan, she's been trying to be a better person.

I'm not sure about this one...do we need an entry to state that what we see happening in the comic happened in the comic? Or am I missing the point here?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm not sure about this one...do we need an entry to state that what we see happening in the comic happened in the comic? Or am I missing the point here?

I know that some people didn't feel that Haley's statement there was natural or unforced, so the quote demonstrates how it was natural character development.

[Gwynfrid]

I think "owning" it is a technicality, since the curator is only supposed to maintain the first post in accordance with community consensus. So yay, I won the thread I curate! Huh, wonder if that constitutes a conflict of interest....

Hmm. Lucky for you, this isn't the lottery, or it would look bad on you.

I'm not sure about this one...do we need an entry to state that what we see happening in the comic happened in the comic? Or am I missing the point here?

I know that some people didn't feel that Haley's statement there was natural or unforced, so the quote demonstrates how it was natural character development.

Yes, that. Also, the quote comes in response to a poster's confusion, as in: "we are now being asked as readers to approach this strip with a mind-set of this is how Haley has always been." Maybe that confusion only arose from the comment thread itself, but given how #959 has been, let's say, diversely perceived, Rich's intended characterization is a good thing to be able to demonstrate.

[Porthos]

Taking the whole conversation in context, it's also a "If you don't want to think of those lines as only a mea-culpa from me, here's how to look at it from a pure in-story PoV" post, IMO.

[Jasdoif]

Hmm. Lucky for you, this isn't the lottery, or it would look bad on you.

No kidding....

Yes, that. Also, the quote comes in response to a poster's confusion, as in: "we are now being asked as readers to approach this strip with a mind-set of this is how Haley has always been." Maybe that confusion only arose from the comment thread itself, but given how #959 has been, let's say, diversely perceived, Rich's intended characterization is a good thing to be able to demonstrate.

Fair enough. I still don't see why it'd be confusing, but the amount of confusion isn't mitigated by my failure to understand it; so let's go for it.

---

So that puts us at....

LGBT Characters Why there aren't more in the comic. Also see this, and what the Giant is doing about it.	#882	04/08/2013
Authorship and Responsibility "Every aspect of the comic is under my direct control, so the only person who should be judged regarding the appropriateness of the language is me...." Also see this.	#959	07/27/2014
The Importance Of Messages in Stories "The author should not leave out his or her message so as not to disrupt the delicate story." More here: "The story is a tool for getting my ideas across, nothing more." (Also, Hinjo is color-blind.)	#959	07/25/2014
The Purpose of Fiction "Fantasy literature is ONLY worthwhile for what it can tell us about the real world; everything else is petty escapism." See also here.	#835	02/14/2012
The Giant Applauding 5E D&D's Acknowledgement of Diversity Specifically, how the core rules take into account gender, gender identity, and sexuality; as referred to the article here.	#958	07/24/2014
Haley's Decision to Stop Using Gendered Insults It's growth of her character. She's been trying to be a better person since being with Elan.	#959	07/31/2014

There are actually two double-new-quote entries in there, so we're at eight new quotes. That makes us me behind on the update cycle....So if anyone wants to chime in on inclusion/exclusion/wording, now's the time

[Jasdoif]

Well, some of those quotes were close in counting support, but two for and zero against meets "inclusion by two" (and exceeds 2/3 support) so I see no need to open them up to vote requests. So once more, we've got a completely clean update cycle.

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Proposed Items for Index 3.4
LGBT Characters Why there aren't more in the comic. Also see this, and what the Giant is doing about it.	#882	04/08/2013	No vote required, will be included. Updates an existing entry.
Authorship and Responsibility "Every aspect of the comic is under my direct control, so the only person who should be judged regarding the appropriateness of the language is me...." Also see this.	#959	07/27/2014	No vote required, will be included.
The Importance Of Messages in Stories "The author should not leave out his or her message so as not to disrupt the delicate story." More here: "The story is a tool for getting my ideas across, nothing more." (Also, Hinjo is color-blind.)	#959	07/25/2014	No vote required, will be included.
The Purpose of Fiction "Fantasy literature is ONLY worthwhile for what it can tell us about the real world; everything else is petty escapism." See also here.	#835	02/14/2012	No vote required, will be included.
The Giant Applauding 5E D&D's Acknowledgement of Diversity Specifically, how the core rules take into account gender, gender identity, and sexuality; as referred to the article here.	#958	07/24/2014	No vote required, will be included.
Haley's Decision to Stop Using Gendered Insults It's growth of her character. She's been trying to be a better person since being with Elan.	#959	07/31/2014	No vote required, will be included.

With no entries eligible to be voted on, there will be no vote; all six entries are now in the Index.

---

Now then. Since "Fantasy literature is ONLY worthwhile for what it can tell us about the real world; everything else is petty escapism." has its own entry (in Real World Intent), does anything think there's a problem with the same quote remained linked as a see also in the D&D, Alignment, and Morality entry that's...umm...immediately above the new entry in the same table?

[Emanick]

I don't think there's any need for that post to be linked twice. Especially in the D&D, Alignment and Morality section, where IMO it doesn't really belong anyway.

[Peelee]

I'm trying to avoid comedy in the descriptions that go into the Index. Both to maintain the tone the Index had when I took it over, and because it seems the most reliable way to prevent banana jokes from being enshrined. I'm confident most of the forum population would get tired of reading through banana jokes long before I get tired of making them, and putting any in the Index would make a slippery slope. Because it has a peel

I vote in favor of banana jokes. They're quite tropical.

[137beth]

I vote in favor of banana jokes. They're quite tropical.

But will they rot as quickly as real bananas?

[Gwynfrid]

But will they rot as quickly as real bananas?

They won't have time to rot, because even more so than real bananas, they get consumed real fast, on account of their deliciousness.

[Ceaon]

Guys, I love the banana puns, but the trick is only using them when you have something on-topic to post.
Otherwise they'll lose a peel.

On topic: IMHO, don't link it twice. People will be better able to find out in its new position more than ever, so the see also link has lost all its value.

[theangelJean]

Thanks for all your work, Jasdoif.

Seems rather verbose. How about...

Parental Problems Parents are in the story only to introduce conflict. That fathers are included and mothers are absent for the human characters is simply a coincidence.

#815

11/18/2011

?

No problem. I tend towards excess verbosity anyway.

[Jasdoif]

The Importance Of Messages in Stories "The author should not leave out his or her message so as not to disrupt the delicate story." More here: "The story is a tool for getting my ideas across, nothing more." (Also, Hinjo is color-blind.)

#17825455

07/25/2014

Huh. So apparently, if a banana tree falls in a temperate forest, a post number slips into the comic strip column on a bunch of peels....Fixed.

I don't think there's any need for that post to be linked twice. Especially in the D&D, Alignment and Morality section, where IMO it doesn't really belong anyway.

On topic: IMHO, don't link it twice. People will be better able to find out in its new position more than ever, so the see also link has lost all its value.

OK, the see also link has been removed.

Seems rather verbose. How about...

Parental Problems Parents are in the story only to introduce conflict. That fathers are included and mothers are absent for the human characters is simply a coincidence.

#815

11/18/2011

?

No problem. I tend towards excess verbosity anyway.

Alrighty. Since it seems no one has a problem with the wording, this is now in the Index.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I took a look at the new layout of the Index and I really like the changes we made.

[Bird]

Jasdoif, you helpfully linked to this post in Geekery, which deals with Elan's skill points & stats for several characters, among other things. I'd tried looking this up in the Index under "D&D Rules and Explanations." I didn't find it--am I just blind (possible; I've been having an off week) or has it been voted out or something?

[Jasdoif]

Jasdoif, you helpfully linked to this post in Geekery, which deals with Elan's skill points & stats for several characters, among other things. I'd tried looking this up in the Index under "D&D Rules and Explanations." I didn't find it--am I just blind (possible; I've been having an off week) or has it been voted out or something?

The post id doesn't appear anywhere in the Index, no; and to my knowledge we've never had a quote voted out. I happened to remember the post based on your description, remembered that it said something like "Elan is bad at math", and the forum search found only one post in the OOTS forums where The Giant used "Elan" and "math" in the same post. (My random recall is unusually thorough, I've been told.)

I don't recall it ever being proposed for inclusion in the Index, I think I came originally across it because a couple of the cites in the Class and Geekery summary used it for its other aspects (such as Roy's mental stats). So I think I need to ask if you're proposing it for inclusion now.

[Bird]

The post id doesn't appear anywhere in the Index, no; and to my knowledge we've never had a quote voted out. I happened to remember the post based on your description, remembered that it said something like "Elan is bad at math", and the forum search found only one post in the OOTS forums where The Giant used "Elan" and "math" in the same post. (My random recall is unusually thorough, I've been told.)

I don't recall it ever being proposed for inclusion in the Index, I think I came originally across it because a couple of the cites in the Class and Geekery summary used it for its other aspects (such as Roy's mental stats). So I think I need to ask if you're proposing it for inclusion now.

You know, for some reason it still hasn't sunk in with me that forum search has become a thing.

Yes, I'm proposing it for inclusion. It just came up and it could come up again. The post has information on multiple points of interest, of which Elan's skill points and Roy & Vaarsuvius's comparative mental ability scores are probably the most important.