Bleach IX: This isn't even my final thread!

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I love the Anita Blake books

It's like we're fated to have opposing stances.

I'll bet the Star Wars prequels didn't rustle your jimmies either.

Speaking of rustled jimmies, am I the only one still trying to figure out the justification behind a few of those fullbringers keeping their memories and (likely) their hollow-tainted powers?

[Calemyr]

It's like we're fated to have opposing stances.

I'll bet the Star Wars prequels didn't rustle your jimmies either.

Speaking of rustled jimmies, am I the only one still trying to figure out the justification behind a few of those fullbringers keeping their memories and (likely) their hollow-tainted powers?

Did I miss something? Why wouldn't the fullbringers still have their memories and powers? Their post-heel personas are their real ones, so Tsukishima's death wouldn't be an issue, and Ichigo never took his Fullbring back. He just proved that what was left of it combined with his rekindled Quincy Reaper powers was more than Ginjo had a prayer of overcoming. The rest of the group simply lost their fights without serious consequence (except for the time guy and Tsukishima).

[Infernally Clay]

Their souls were fundamentally changed by the Hollows, so it makes sense they'd keep their Fullbrings after death.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Yoooou! I finally remember where I've heard your name before. Just noting.

Hello *waves* I recognize the name, but had no clue if it was the same person cause The Internet.

[chainer1216]

so i rewatched the ginjo v. ichigo fight, and something struck me.

ichigo straight up murdered ginjo in cold blood, for no real reason. ichigo got his powers back from the shinigami, all his friends memories were fixed, and ginjo was just going to walk off into the sunset, and ichigo was just like "nope, i kill you". Did the fullbringer even have some sort of dastardly plan that they all needed to be killed?

[LaZodiac]

so i rewatched the ginjo v. ichigo fight, and something struck me.

ichigo straight up murdered ginjo in cold blood, for no real reason. ichigo got his powers back from the shinigami, all his friends memories were fixed, and ginjo was just going to walk off into the sunset, and ichigo was just like "nope, i kill you". Did the fullbringer even have some sort of dastardly plan that they all needed to be killed?

Yeah they just kind of are murdered in cold blood. Hell from Byakuya's perspective, due to Tsukishime's power, killed his best friend in cold blood because "it's just business."

His power probably runs off when he dies but still.

[Rater202]

so i rewatched the ginjo v. ichigo fight, and something struck me.

ichigo straight up murdered ginjo in cold blood, for no real reason. ichigo got his powers back from the shinigami, all his friends memories were fixed, and ginjo was just going to walk off into the sunset, and ichigo was just like "nope, i kill you". Did the fullbringer even have some sort of dastardly plan that they all needed to be killed?

Well, for one the Fullbringers kind of Betrayed and Manipulated Ichigo, mind rapped most of his friends and Family, almost killed Ishida, and Ichigo was having a Psychological Break Down at the time.

In shonen, that's grounds for immediate Execution.

Also, other than the mind rapist and the mastermind, the only one who was killed was the guy who murdered his wife in cold blood just to test his powers. He at least kinda had it coming.

And since he ended up in SS, I have to wonder how bad you have to be to be sent to Hell in this series

Back to Ginjo, well, his Goal involved stealing Power from Ichigo, and personally, one person having that kind of Power is scary enough

And Nitpick, None of Ichigo's friends memoriys were fixed until after the Ichigo/Ginjo fight.

[Starwulf]

It's like we're fated to have opposing stances.

I'll bet the Star Wars prequels didn't rustle your jimmies either.

Speaking of rustled jimmies, am I the only one still trying to figure out the justification behind a few of those fullbringers keeping their memories and (likely) their hollow-tainted powers?

lol....I enjoyed the Star War Prequels, and Jar Jar Binks is the most hilarious character of all time, and no, I am NOT being sarcastic.

Soooo...yeah, definitely polar opposites I guess, hehe.

Of course, I think it's fair to mention that I've only ever watched the original Star Wars trilogy like..once, when I was like, 8 years old(I'm 32), and wasn't particularly impressed, so it's a lot easier for me to take the prequel trilogy at face value and not get mad about stuff. Personally, I've never understood the fanaticism over the original movies, but, that's just me.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Well, for one the Fullbringers kind of Betrayed and Manipulated Ichigo, mind rapped most of his friends and Family, almost killed Ishida, and Ichigo was having a Psychological Break Down at the time.

In shonen, that's grounds for immediate Execution..

You left out "Stole Ichigo's powers and was going to kill him"

Trying to stab someone usually justifies them kicking your rump to Heunco Mundo and back.

[Anteros]

lol....I enjoyed the Star War Prequels, and Jar Jar Binks is the most hilarious character of all time, and no, I am NOT being sarcastic.

Soooo...yeah, definitely polar opposites I guess, hehe.

Of course, I think it's fair to mention that I've only ever watched the original Star Wars trilogy like..once, when I was like, 8 years old(I'm 32), and wasn't particularly impressed, so it's a lot easier for me to take the prequel trilogy at face value and not get mad about stuff. Personally, I've never understood the fanaticism over the original movies, but, that's just me.

Well, I disagree about Jar Jar, but honestly the new trilogy isn't that bad in my opinion either. You have to understand though, people loved the original trilogy, and they waited 30 years for a sequel. 30 years of nostalgia is a hard force to overcome.

so i rewatched the ginjo v. ichigo fight, and something struck me.

ichigo straight up murdered ginjo in cold blood, for no real reason. ichigo got his powers back from the shinigami, all his friends memories were fixed, and ginjo was just going to walk off into the sunset, and ichigo was just like "nope, i kill you". Did the fullbringer even have some sort of dastardly plan that they all needed to be killed?

Why shouldn't he? It's been a while, so maybe I'm not remembering clearly, but these guys basically just got done mind-raping and torturing him and all of his friends, plus trying to kill him. There's also a strong implication that they've been up to other nefarious acts for a while. Why should he let them go simply because they stopped their current aggression?

[Starwulf]

Well, I disagree about Jar Jar, but honestly the new trilogy isn't that bad in my opinion either. You have to understand though, people loved the original trilogy, and they waited 30 years for a sequel. 30 years of nostalgia is a hard force to overcome.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned that I had only ever watched the original once, and it was when I was young, hence I had no real expectations. What does baffle me though, are people my age being so offended by the prequel trilogy. We weren't even alive when the original was released, and it's likely they watched it around the same age I did, so why do they get so irritated with it?

As far as Jar-Jar goes, I was a major stoner(well, actually, not at the exact time I watched it, I was in the military then, but before and after I was) back then, so Jar-Jar just resonated with me because of that, lol. I have never watched the prequels since, so no idea how I'd take him now.

Edit: I digress, I'm pulling the thread entirely off-topic. Please use spoilers with the fullbring stuff if you guys don't mind. I know the general info, but none of the specifics, and don't want to know them, I didn't pick up the manga until after it, and Fullbring arc just started on Adult Swim ^^

[The Troubadour]

Well, I disagree about Jar Jar, but honestly the new trilogy isn't that bad in my opinion either. You have to understand though, people loved the original trilogy, and they waited 30 years for a sequel. 30 years of nostalgia is a hard force to overcome.

Leaving aside all matters of fanboyism and nostalgia and similar, I found the prequels very badly written, and the acting was even worse (except for Ian McDiarmid and a few others). The original trilogy had its fair share of flaws, but most of those could be forgiven due to the general (intended) cheesiness; the new trilogy, by contrast, takes itself far too seriously and only manages to be even more ridiculous.

Well, your mileage may vary and all that. :-)

[Durkoala]

OK, big post time!

You had to post so many things while I wasn't watching. Most of these are my guesswork; I could go looking for evidence for them, but that's just asking for a page of squabbling. I'm still a Pixie, I'm not ready for that kind of argument!

Theories on the fullbringers: Will contain spoilers, naturally.
Soul Society had already decided that Ginjo should die, and Ichigo didn't have any reason to stop them (Ginjo did just manipulate him, use him and put just about every one of his friends through hell) so he decided to end it himself because he's really possessive about his fights.
This is also the first betrayal he's experienced and for Mr "I'll protect everyone", having a friend backstab him was probably the worst thing anyone could do to him.

The whole 'souls don't remember their lives' idea is from, and has only applied to, the first movie where it was used to highlight how strange the new character was by having memories. In the main Bleach, nothing has been said to support this and the incident with Chad and the bird refutes it.
Or I've read the question wrong and it was about Tsukishima's brainwashing, in which case it's been answered.

Theories on Zaraki: My big guess is that it's because he's had no training in controlling his spirit pressure. Most of the other Shinigami can keep their power level stable even when things are getting bad, but the untrained Ichigo dropped drasticaly when his mind wasn't in the game. Right now Zaraki's been through what's probably the weirdest fight he's ever had, and the one person he cares about the most has vanished in a way that makes no sense. His spirit pressure is a lot lower than it normally would be in a fight, the enemy is ganging up on him while crushing his followers and he's also really worried about what happened to Yachiru.

Another possibility (which in no way discounts the other) is that Gremmy hit Zaraki harder than it looked: Kenny has shown that while he can ignore even very bad wounds, they do add up and he has to be careful he doesn't dropdead in the middle of a fight. Gremmy threw a lot of things at him; the lava and meteor would realisticly hurt even if they didn't hit someone and a high (spirit) pressure object would be more damaged by a vacuum than a lower pressured one. (Physics in Bleach: I wouldn't be saying this if it wasn't for Kubo putting in some sciencey explanations in the recent fights. ).

Theories on Gremmy: I think I need a strong drink.

Theories on why I watch Bleach: Because it still has its good points. Most people here are pointing to Mask, but my favourite bit of the Quincy War is Rukia vs As Nodt. Emotional, scary, nice use of abilites, not power, to gain the advantage and Rukia gets a clear win for once.
I'm also anticipating Ichigo meeting Uryu as one of the few ways Ichigo has left to be strained is in having someone truly reject or betray him:

Spoiler: fullbring arc

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He only knew Ginjo for a few weeks at the most and even then it was a Ginjo brainwashed to be acceptable to Ichigo

, but the consequences were certainly memorable.
Even if Ichigo finds out that Uryu doesn't really support the Wandernreich, Uryu is proud enough that he may still reject Ichigo's help. I don't know where this will go, but the end of the fullbring arc has raised my expectations.

I think part of the problem with Bleach is that it's taking on events that are too big for it. The bouncy, quirky back-and-forth interplay of comedy and drama worked well for the Protector of Town narrative and the Storming of Soul Society, where we see normal, routine life being shaken up, but doesn't fit the times of war the later arcs became, IMO. Perhaps if we'd remained in town as the war blew around the characters, with the bigger picture being alluded to by some visiting shinigami and the characters having to fight some of the minions of the enemy now and then. We could even have a final boss with Ichigo holding out against Aizen while Soul Society lures Yhwach in to fight him for real. But that's just a theory.

On the femRitters: The Thunderbolt's pretty cool to me. It's logically strong, fast and practical, so we don't have to spend a chapter being told how it works.
The Power I don't like as much. It's got the same good points as the Thunderbolt, but it doesn't really seem like a "Quincy" power to me. A simple power also really shines when attached to a complex and strong character, which McAllon isn't.
The Glutton is just creepy, although it does have room to have some interesting related powers.
The Zombie: I knew it! fits her perfectly and explains Bambietta's fear perfectly.

Here's hoping they don't all get blown away by Ichigo to show off his power.

[danzibr]

Theories on Zaraki: My big guess is that it's because he's had no training in controlling his spirit pressure. Most of the other Shinigami can keep their power level stable even when things are getting bad, but the untrained Ichigo dropped drasticaly when his mind wasn't in the game. Right now Zaraki's been through what's probably the weirdest fight he's ever had, and the one person he cares about the most has vanished in a way that makes no sense. His spirit pressure is a lot lower than it normally would be in a fight, the enemy is ganging up on him while crushing his followers and he's also really worried about what happened to Yachiru.

Another possibility (which in no way discounts the other) is that Gremmy hit Zaraki harder than it looked: Kenny has shown that while he can ignore even very bad wounds, they do add up and he has to be careful he doesn't dropdead in the middle of a fight. Gremmy threw a lot of things at him; the lava and meteor would realisticly hurt even if they didn't hit someone and a high (spirit) pressure object would be more damaged by a vacuum than a lower pressured one. (Physics in Bleach: I wouldn't be saying this if it wasn't for Kubo putting in some sciencey explanations in the recent fights. ).

Didn't he put him in outer space for a while? Yeah, that'd mess someone up. He even said something about his internal organs being messed up.

Still, if only he could move his hand up to his eyepatch...

[Rater202]

You left out "Stole Ichigo's powers and was going to kill him"

Trying to stab someone usually justifies them kicking your rump to Heunco Mundo and back.

Yes, I did. And any plan that involved taking power from Ichigo is not a plan I want to see completed.

So yeah, the murderer, the mind rapist, and the mastermind were killed, but were not evil enough to go to hell(Those three are with the shiba's in soul Society, IIRC)

Ichigo even made sure that Ginjo got a proper burial, which is not something you do for someone you kill in cold blood.

Meanwhile the other three, the one who actually wanted to be rid of her powers lost hers, and the kid and the chick who was vaguely sympathetic got off scot free.

I'm half expecting them to show up at some point in this arc.

[Mato]

Ginjo was going to let Ichigo live (ch459) and he was never intended to be evil. Just the opposite of Ichigo.

Now we can go back on forth all day discussing what each of us considers evil but Tite has already said Ginjo wasn't but putting him in soul society instead of hell. Technically, there was a bit of background throw in foreshadowing this. The choice to use uninhabited building to minimize causalities and zero deaths. Ginjo was the kind of man to befriend, adopt, train, and continue to fully trust in little orphan Tsukishima and his underlings talk about being saved by him. And he was a recognized substitute shinigami rather than prisoner living in the maggot's nest.

Ginjo turning away was explained not as power hungry tyranny or such, but because he felt betrayed by SS after learning his badge was an NSA homing beacon. And as sadistic as he seems in battle (blame tite) and his plan to steal Ichigo's Fullbring is, it appears this is the first time they have ever done such and a key element here is this plan was created after Aizen won. Proving the corrupted SS that has been the motivation for Tozen, Aizen, and Ywach couldn't even protect the one group of people they promised they would. Someone had to step up and in the end, his internal narration is regretful, wondering he if was the second substitute if he would have made better choices.

I'm convinced the character wasn't wrote by Tite and who ever wrote the character information for Ginjo did a great job really, it's just Tite's usage of him is pathetic. The entire arc was too short and felt added on rather than part of the series. Ginjo's resurrection even feels like a waiting power up for Ichigo. Oh no he's losing again, quick have your Fullbring back. :(

[ryuplaneswalker]

Yes, I did. And any plan that involved taking power from Ichigo is not a plan I want to see completed.

Best Crossover ever.

Bleach and Girl Genius

Ichigo : "I am going to kill Aizen and lose my powers"

Random Jager : "uny Plan where hyu loze your Powerz is a BAD PLAN"

[maximus25]

Oh good, Ichigo has become the fastest guy again.

For a few chapters, at least.


Remember when that was his thing? He went bankai and he was the fastest shinigami? Then Byakuya was like haha not really.

[Durkoala]

Ginjo was going to let Ichigo live (ch459) and he was never intended to be evil.

The man orders the death of one of his followers because he didn't like the guy's power level. Just because he's considered redeemable doesn't mean he's not evil: Look at how many people in the "heroic" ranks are said to need locking up.

[LaZodiac]

New Chapter:

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Oh good, Catniss is Yang.

Also oh my jesus, the Quincy's are ACTUALLY USING BOWS. Who expected this?

[HandofShadows]

New Chapter:

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Oh good, Catniss is Yang.

Also oh my jesus, the Quincy's are ACTUALLY USING BOWS. Who expected this?

Spoiler

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Get to see Ichigo's new design. And he tanks one attack like it was nothing. I wonder if this fight is just practice for him to get use to all his abilities?

[ryuplaneswalker]

Spoiler

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All I could think of through that entire chapter was...

"Now you feel like number 1, shining bright for everyone Living out your fantasies"

[LaZodiac]

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All I could think of through that entire chapter was...

"Now you feel like number 1, shining bright for everyone Living out your fantasies"

Spoiler

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Hahaha. The anime got cancelled and replaced with a Naruto spin off staring chibi Rock Lee.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Spoiler

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Hahaha. The anime got cancelled and replaced with a Naruto spin off staring chibi Rock Lee.

I know, but my mind went straight to that like not even the intro, just right to the chorus

[ben-zayb]

New Chapter:

Spoiler

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Oh good, Catniss is Yang.

Also oh my jesus, the Quincy's are ACTUALLY USING BOWS. Who expected this?

Spoiler

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Cherubim bows, to boot.

Ichigo's design is awesome as always; one thing that Kubo never fails in delivering.

[Mad Hattington]

Now this might be a little bit off-topic, but is anybody else bothered by the fact, that the incredibly evil and terrible quincy actually speak (horrible) german? I know i might be overreacting, but it has already bothered me for quite some time, as it seems to me, that Kubos thoughts on that matter were: evil, nazi-like empire? let them use german for their attacks, just to stress it a little bit.

P.S. On another note, I don't think, that Kubo will actually use Umlaute for the Sternritter. It wouldn't make sense, simply for the fact, that the words he had to use for this would need to be german, while all the other Sternritter-names aren't. Also, the german words, that do start with Umlauten, are pretty unfitting most of the time. (Then again we're talking about Kubo...)

[Sliver]

Spoiler

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I like the fact that to draw their bows they have to slap their butts.

[ben-zayb]

Now this might be a little bit off-topic, but is anybody else bothered by the fact, that the incredibly evil and terrible quincy actually speak (horrible) german? I know i might be overreacting, but it has already bothered me for quite some time, as it seems to me, that Kubos thoughts on that matter were: evil, nazi-like empire? let them use german for their attacks, just to stress it a little bit.

P.S. On another note, I don't think, that Kubo will actually use Umlaute for the Sternritter. It wouldn't make sense, simply for the fact, that the words he had to use for this would need to be german, while all the other Sternritter-names aren't. Also, the german words, that do start with Umlauten, are pretty unfitting most of the time. (Then again we're talking about Kubo...)

All German are Nazis, apparently, and Quincies are a fantasy counterpart german culture.

Kubo always do some fantasy counterpart culture to make the factions distinctly foreign. Shinigami are the counterpart of medieval japan (not really medieval, but that's pedantry), Hollows are hispanic/latin inspired in a few nomenclature at least, while Quincies have the same with german (not to mention THAT uniform). Personally, I think Fullbringers are also somehow european inspired, what with the clothing, the butler, and the claymore.

[HandofShadows]

All German are Nazis, apparently, and Quincies are a fantasy counterpart german culture.

So Ichigo's mom was a nazi?

Joke.

Now maybe the Sternritter are that way. But there are clearly Quincies that arn't like the Sternritter.

[ben-zayb]

So Ichigo's mom was a nazi?

Joke.

Now maybe the Sternritter are that way. But there are clearly Quincies that arn't like the Sternritter.

Well, technically, SR are not the only ones because the whole Van den Reich is the fictional... youknowwhat. It would be an awesome twist to see old fullblood non-VDR quincies (Ryuuken?) though, potentially as SS allies.