Smash Brothers 4 General

[Dienekes]

Pretty sure Uprising was because of Pit's presence in Brawl, not the other way around.

Anyway, I've seen lots of requests for DHD, for the very reason you put forward:
They hate him. And they'd love a chance to beat the snot out of him.
(they won't though, Duck Hunt too strong)

You may be right. For some reason I thought Uprising was released a year after Brawl, which would imply to me that it had been in production earlier. I was wrong, it was 4 years after Brawl. My mistake.

Oh, I will slaughter that dog. Just wait. Then we'll see who is laughing.

It will be me.

[Zevox]

That said, if all of his taunts are not laughing at the camera they will have missed an opportunity to get everyone not playing the character to rage.

Disappointingly, none of his taunts are his classic laugh. The old-school sprite for it does show up briefly at the start of his Final Smash, but it's a "blink and you'll miss it" sort of thing.

He does have a different laugh for one of his taunts, but it's more like a snicker, and he's not facing the camera when he does it.

Edit: Oh, I actually wasn't aware that he does it for his win pose. Saw a different video than that one showing off his taunts and FS originally, which didn't include that. That's good at least.

[Tectonic Robot]

I hear Duck Hunt shows promise as a high tier character. Kinda funny, isn't it?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Also, that would have been better. I really can't think of anyone who was demanding that damn dog from the Duck Hunt games to make it into SSB.

I wasn't, but once I heard about it, I realized that my Smash experience was incomplete without that gorram dog.

[Drascin]

Nintendo doesn't own Banjo Kazooie though

Anyway, I don't think many people were clamoring for Ice Climbers or Pit either. Duck Hunt is this games retro rep.

We weren't clamoring for him because we didn't think he had a snowball's chance in hell.

I for one, however, actually cheered out loud when the first trailer came out and Pit was there. Kid Icarus was quite literally the first videogame I ever played. The only thing that came close to the OMG factor of Pit suddenly being there was Megaman's reveal trailer.

and this relaunched the series and got us Kid Icarus Uprising, which is just nine shades of amazing, so, double success.

[Nilehus]

Is it just me, or does Little Mac's Final Smash look a lot like a certain character from Attack on Titan?

Wife had a demo code and is downloading it now :D

[Tolvan]

Is it just me, or does Little Mac's Final Smash look a lot like a certain character from Attack on Titan?

Wife had a demo code and is downloading it now :D

Misaka, right?

[Zevox]

Good-ish news: it seems that the netcode for Smash 3DS is decent. As long as everyone involved in a match has a good connection, it will play pretty good. That is the key though, every player having a good connection. So it's going to be harder to find smooth games the more people you have playing at once, and it'll be far harder to find smooth games in With Anyone, where your opponents are randomly chosen, than in With Friends. Which is pretty disappointing to me personally, honestly, since what I most like to do with fighting games is just hop online and fight random people for an hour or so. I can only hope that For Glory mode allows you to select to only get 1v1 matches, which might make that more playable. Pity that in that case I'm still stuck with only "Omega" (Final Destination) versions of stages, but that's a flaw with For Glory itself, nothing to do with the netcode.

[BeerMug Paladin]

You know, skimming this I noticed the mention of the Duck Hunt Dog. I actually did suggest this as a possible option to somebody when I was thinking of bizarre/ridiculous suggestions for characters to add. As I noted at the time, it was an old property that was first-party. Like Ice Climbers, Rob and Pit when they were introduced.

I didn't expect any of my crazy suggestions to actually be in there (I got Bowser Jr. too, but I also made dozens of much weirder suggestions too). But I did note that if they included that dog, a big crowd of people would appreciate the opportunity to beat him up. I think the person I told this to admitted it would be a decent idea for that reason alone.

A lot of people are going to get their childhood dreams of pummeling that dog now. It's a weird kind of fanservice.

[Tectonic Robot]

You know, skimming this I noticed the mention of the Duck Hunt Dog. I actually did suggest this as a possible option to somebody when I was thinking of bizarre/ridiculous suggestions for characters to add. As I noted at the time, it was an old property that was first-party. Like Ice Climbers, Rob and Pit when they were introduced.

I didn't expect any of my crazy suggestions to actually be in there (I got Bowser Jr. too, but I also made dozens of much weirder suggestions too). But I did note that if they included that dog, a big crowd of people would appreciate the opportunity to beat him up. I think the person I told this to admitted it would be a decent idea for that reason alone.

A lot of people are going to get their childhood dreams of pummeling that dog now. It's a weird kind of fanservice.

Yes, but a lot of people are going to get pummeled by that dog, which I assume will be the opposite of cathartic!

[Pie Guy]

I don't know, from what I've seen DHD doesn't have many good kill moves. It's the Young Link problem, "I naired him at 200% and he died" isn't really a kill move.

[Zevox]

Well, we have confirmation that the Ice Climbers' absence is due to trouble making them work on the 3DS version. Which, honestly, makes me wish they weren't sticking quite so hard to their promise of both versions having the same roster. I'm pretty sure people would understand them being exclusive to the Wii U version due to technical issues.

Guess we can just hope they decide to put them back in via DLC on the Wii U version (and perhaps New 3DS, if the hardware upgrades that got address the issues they were having). Though I probably wouldn't pick them up personally, having never really played them much, they're a series staple and very unique character that really should stay if it at all possible.

[OracleofWuffing]

Guess we can just hope they decide to put them back in via DLC on the Wii U version (and perhaps New 3DS, if the hardware upgrades that got address the issues they were having). Though I probably wouldn't pick them up personally, having never really played them much, they're a series staple and very unique character that really should stay if it at all possible.

Having the Ice Climbers be DLC for New 3DS users only probably wouldn't work too well, it would probably mean that you'd have to further filter multiplayer battles to prevent New 3DS users from playing with 3DS users. Though, I personally don't buy the statement at face value, this was the kind of thing game developers would say 25 years ago as to why a feature wasn't included in a game, but I guess that line of thinking is a fallacy in and of itself.

Though the "There wasn’t as high a priority given to series that are unlikely to have another installment at this time," really leaves me wanting to say something snarky about Samus and Captain Falcon... Oh, and Mega Man.

[Zevox]

Having the Ice Climbers be DLC for New 3DS users only probably wouldn't work too well, it would probably mean that you'd have to further filter multiplayer battles to prevent New 3DS users from playing with 3DS users.

Hm, true. In that case I guess I just hope they're willing to make an exception to their "both versions get the same roster" rule where DLC is concerned, at least in this one case.

Though, I personally don't buy the statement at face value, this was the kind of thing game developers would say 25 years ago as to why a feature wasn't included in a game, but I guess that line of thinking is a fallacy in and of itself.

Um, why? It's a perfectly reasonable explanation, and makes more sense than any other I can think of. Every other character who has been around as long as them without being cut returned, and there's no other reason that comes to mind why they'd be cut.

Though the "There wasn’t as high a priority given to series that are unlikely to have another installment at this time," really leaves me wanting to say something snarky about Samus and Captain Falcon... Oh, and Mega Man.

I'd expect we'll still see something from Metroid in the future. Star Fox has had a longer period since its last game, but we're getting a new one of those, after all, and Metroid is probably a bigger series for Nintendo than Star Fox.

[OracleofWuffing]

Um, why? It's a perfectly reasonable explanation, and makes more sense than any other I can think of. Every other character who has been around as long as them without being cut returned, and there's no other reason that comes to mind why they'd be cut.

I just, personally, can't accept it as reasonable. I have no objective grounds to say why it's unreasonable outside of an irrational gut kneejerk reaction. I know that the engine "maxes out" supporting battles with 1 player with 3 AI opponents, and Ice Climbers basically turn the battle into 1 player with 1 AI companion and 6 AI opponents which is much over that spec, but when half of those AIs consist of "stay close to moving object and act similarly," it just doesn't sound any hardware is being taxed. Heck, there's at least one modder who got a 24 AI battle on the Melee engine, I know the GameCube is a console system and the 3DS is a portable system, but the GameCube's also 2 generations behind us now.

And I know that's also not a fair observation for me to make, because that's greatly oversimplifying the AI behind Nana, all the things that can go wrong when things are networked, and the fast-paced nature of fighting games, but dang it, that's how I feel. I guess I just would rather swallow the pill that they'd rather spend the time implementing the two or three other characters than have Ice Climbers, than a statement of, "We didn't have the gigahertz," and I'm probably just splitting hairs with how it's worded.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Though the "There wasn’t as high a priority given to series that are unlikely to have another installment at this time," really leaves me wanting to say something snarky about Samus and Captain Falcon... Oh, and Mega Man.

Does this mean we're going to get more Game And Watch, Duck Hunt, and ROB games in the near future?

[Nilehus]

The Ice Climbers were a little goofy, yeah, but they were unique. I know it's easier to slap in another half dozen clones, but I'd take one Ice Climbers over a dozen Dr. Mario's any day.

[Rodin]

Does this mean we're going to get more Game And Watch, Duck Hunt, and ROB games in the near future?

I was surprised when Game and Watch made it into Brawl, and surprised again when ROB made the cut for 3DS/Wii U. Pleasantly surprised since I enjoy playing both characters, but still.

Looking at non-clone characters that didn't make it, there's fewer than I thought:

Mewtwo
Ice Climbers
Ivysaur/Bulbasaur
Snake

And of those, only Ice Climbers were in more than one game. Mewtwo was replaced by Lucario (to the series' detriment, I feel), and Ivysaur/Bulbasaur were cut when the Pokemon Trainer got consolidated down to just Charizard. That's not a bad record, really.

It does point out another interesting decision: no more split characters. Zelda and Sheik got split up, Samus/Zero Suit Samus got split up, Charizard split off by himself. Probably wise, since nobody was dropping back and forth between characters during a match anyway (except for recovery shenanigans).

[OracleofWuffing]

Ivysaur and Squirtle, not Ivysaur and Bulbasaur. Pokemon trainer would've been 200 times better if he had Bulbasaur, though.

I thought there was a statement somewhere that it was an intentional design choice to avoid characters that change into different characters, in order to make things simpler and flesh out each character better. I guess Robin and Shulk kind of go against that grain, but then again they appear to be far more subdued in comparison to the previous changing-fighting-styles-while-fighting characters.

[Tolvan]

I was surprised when Game and Watch made it into Brawl, and surprised again when ROB made the cut for 3DS/Wii U. Pleasantly surprised since I enjoy playing both characters, but still.

Looking at non-clone characters that didn't make it, there's fewer than I thought:

Mewtwo
Ice Climbers
Ivysaur/Bulbasaur
Snake

And of those, only Ice Climbers were in more than one game. Mewtwo was replaced by Lucario (to the series' detriment, I feel), and Ivysaur/Bulbasaur were cut when the Pokemon Trainer got consolidated down to just Charizard. That's not a bad record, really.

It does point out another interesting decision: no more split characters. Zelda and Sheik got split up, Samus/Zero Suit Samus got split up, Charizard split off by himself. Probably wise, since nobody was dropping back and forth between characters during a match anyway (except for recovery shenanigans).

Actually, I switched quite often.

[Zevox]

The Ice Climbers were a little goofy, yeah, but they were unique. I know it's easier to slap in another half dozen clones, but I'd take one Ice Climbers over a dozen Dr. Mario's any day.

Completely agreed. A smaller roster where each character is unique is definitely preferable to a larger one padded out by clones.

Looking at non-clone characters that didn't make it, there's fewer than I thought:

Mewtwo
Ice Climbers
Ivysaur/Bulbasaur
Snake

You forgot Lucas and Wolf. No, they're not really clones - only their special moves bear any resemblance to Ness and Fox, and even there PK Fire and the Blaster functioned so differently that their connection is mainly cosmetic. Sad to say they're actually the least clone-like of any characters who shared moves with each other (aside from Marth and Ike sharing Counter but nothing else, anyway), yet somehow they got the axe over the likes of Toon Link.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Actually, I switched quite often.

I did too. But I am nowhere near a top player, and I understand that behavior was quite uncommon even among the filthy casuals.

I'm surprised Ivysaur did not make it in. I was expecting that new pokemon to have a moveset very similar to Squirtle, like how Lucario was very similar to Mewtwo. And then Ivysaur (or a similar pokemon) to wind up with that other moveset from the Pokemon Trainer character. So I basically expected them to split that one character into 3 characters.

[cobaltstarfire]

It would have been nice if they'd kept all three (squirtle, ivysaur, charizard) and split them, I really liked playing with squirtle.

I suppose that would have made the roster even more overloaded with pokemon than it already is though, and they probably don't really want that...

I can understand the issues with iceclimbers too, it might not even be a problem of system power, being a hardware problem doesn't necessarily mean it's a load problem as far as computing/rendering goes.

[Tectonic Robot]

It looks like pretty much all the veterans bar Metaknight and Marth were buffed significantly. That's cool!

[Xondoure]

It looks like pretty much all the veterans bar Metaknight and Marth were buffed significantly. That's cool!

Has Zelda been changed then? Because she was just terrible when I demo'd the game.

[Zevox]

I was expecting that new pokemon to have a moveset very similar to Squirtle, like how Lucario was very similar to Mewtwo.

Um, Lucario isn't similar to Mewtwo at all. The only similarity they have is Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere being fairly similar, and that's just one move.

I suppose that would have made the roster even more overloaded with pokemon than it already is though, and they probably don't really want that...

Apparently they were fine overloading the roster with Mario characters, though. Two newcomers who aren't even major characters from the franchise, Rosalina and Bowser Junior, plus the return of Doctor Mario, which brings us to seven from that series. And that's without counting characters who are started in/are strongly related to Mario but technically represent their own spin-off series, like Yoshi and Wario.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Overloading with Mario characters? The Mario universe is probably their single biggest property what with all the games and spinoffs it gets, (Platformers, rpgs, racing, sports, etc..). Compare it to say, Metroid or FZero, which (usually) gets about one game per console generation, and there's absolutely no comparison. Mario is simply probably their biggest single-universe franchise, so it makes sense to have a lot of characters appear from it.

Plus it would be kind of strange to add characters like Tingle, Space Pirate and Mr EAD. Not that they don't already add weird stuff, but usually the weird additions are from a unique franchise. Like Villager. Or ROB.

[Zevox]

Overloading with Mario characters? The Mario universe is probably their single biggest property what with all the games and spinoffs it gets, (Platformers, rpgs, racing, sports, etc..). Compare it to say, Metroid or FZero, which (usually) gets about one game per console generation, and there's absolutely no comparison. Mario is simply probably their biggest single-universe franchise, so it makes sense to have a lot of characters appear from it.

Plus it would be kind of strange to add characters like Tingle, Space Pirate and Mr EAD. Not that they don't already add weird stuff, but usually the weird additions are from a unique franchise. Like Villager. Or ROB.

Just because it's their biggest franchise doesn't mean they aren't going overboard with it. Personally, I'm of the opinion that once a franchise's major characters are in the roster, further additions from it should be much lower priority than major characters from other franchises. And Mario has had all of its major characters since Melee - Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach. The next-biggest characters from the series are also in the game, Yoshi and Wario, and are just considered to represent their own spin-offs. Hence why they had to dip into more minor characters with only a couple of games to their name like Rosalina to add more. Hence why the next-best ideas the few fans asking for more have are the likes of Daisy, Waluigi, or even a generic Toad.

Rather than that, why shouldn't we see a second character from F-Zero? Or finally get Ridley, whom a large fanbase has been demanding loudly for several games now, and who would finally give us a non-Samus Metroid character? Or just keep characters like Wolf and Lucas around rather than cutting them. Or even add further retro characters, like Takamaru, instead of just one per game. Better to have more variety no matter how you go about it, I'd say.

[Nerocite]

Just because it's their biggest franchise doesn't mean they aren't going overboard with it. Personally, I'm of the opinion that once a franchise's major characters are in the roster, further additions from it should be much lower priority than major characters from other franchises. And Mario has had all of its major characters since Melee - Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach. The next-biggest characters from the series are also in the game, Yoshi and Wario, and are just considered to represent their own spin-offs. Hence why they had to dip into more minor characters with only a couple of games to their name like Rosalina to add more. Hence why the next-best ideas the few fans asking for more have are the likes of Daisy, Waluigi, or even a generic Toad.

Rather than that, why shouldn't we see a second character from F-Zero? Or finally get Ridley, whom a large fanbase has been demanding loudly for several games now, and who would finally give us a non-Samus Metroid character? Or just keep characters like Wolf and Lucas around rather than cutting them. Or even add further retro characters, like Takamaru, instead of just one per game. Better to have more variety no matter how you go about it, I'd say.

It sucks how some series get no reps at all, while others get more and more. Sakurai pls.

[Rodin]

I think the reason we haven't seen more F-Zero characters is that it's a hard series to add characters from. The games have basically no plot, and all of the characters are entirely characterized by their racing machine. Most of the other characters have a platformer to their name, and almost all the rest are from RPGs where you can pull attacks from. Was the famous Falcon Punch even a thing before Smash Bros 64? Who else would you add from F-Zero? I believe Samurai Goroh is the only other guy with any characterization at all from that series, and maybe Black Bull as the villain of GX. Other than his name and that he pilots a really heavy machine, I couldn't tell you a darn thing about him though.

Ridley's problem is likely just one of size. He's always big enough to pick Samus up and fly around the screen with her. It would be very weird to have a mini-Ridley, I'd think. Then again, I have no idea of the canonical size of the various Pokemon.