New Class: Traceur Please Critique

[homerjay]

Traceur
Tekrik was abandoned at an early age when his mother died of the plague and his father was drafted by the barons army. He quickly developed an aptitude for escaping thugs in the cities grungy alleys. He was often confronted by gangs looking for trouble and strating learning to use everything in reach be it a ladder or a horseshoe to his advantage. Then one day as he was routinely stealing a loaf of bread he caught a glimpse of a young woman dressed in simple clothing perched on a nearby rooftop watching him. She was unarmed, disheveled and yet captivatingly beautiful. She fled when he made eye-contact and so he decided to follow her. he climbed fences, scaled walls and leapt from rooftops to balconies and when he finally caught her he was greeted. He was surrounded by a group of young athletic people, humans and non-humans alike, all lean and strong looking with dirty looking clothes. He at first was nervous thinking he was being brought into a trap, until an Elvish male with a braided ponytail stook out his hand and said "I am Erutaron, Master Traceur. Care to see if you're ready for us?"
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills:
The Traceur class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex) and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) ×4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Class FeaturesAll of the following are class features of the Traceur.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Traceur are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the Handaxe, Kukri, Sap, Shuriken, Short bow, Short Sword, and Scimitar. Traceur are not proficient with any armor or shields
When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a Traceur loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement ability.
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the Traceur adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. This ability does not stack with the Monks or Ninjas AC ability. In addition, a Traceur gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five Tracouer levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the Traceur is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.
Fast Movement (Ex): At 1st level, a Traceur gains an enhancement bonus to her speed, as shown on the Table. A Traceur in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.
Parkour (Ex): Starting at 1st level the Traceur shows extreme athletic aptitude. Due to her extensive training a Traceur gains a bonus to her Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble Skill Checks equal to her Traceur level.
Bonus Feats: At 1st level, a Traceur gets a bonus feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The Traceur gain an additional bonus feat at 3rd level and every four Traceur levels thereafter (7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted below. A Traceur must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums. The Traceur bonus feats are: Acrobatic, Acrobatic Strike (PHB2), Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Combat Acrobat (PHB2), Combat expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dash, Dodge, Evasive Reflexes (ToB), Mobility, Spring Attack, Endurance, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, and Run.
These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A Traceur is not limited to the list of Traceur bonus feats when choosing these feats.
Bonus Skill Trick: At 2nd level the Traceur gain a bonus Movement skill trick that she meets the prerequisite for. This skill trick must be taken form the traceur’s list of skill tricks. The traceur gains an additional skill trick at 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th level. The traceur does not need to spend skill points to obtain these tricks, and they do not count against the traceurs normal allowed skill tricks. The Traceur’s bonus skill tricks are: Back on Your Feet, Corner Perch, Extreme Leap, Leaping Climber, Nimble Charge, Nimble Stand, Slipping Past, Speedy Ascent, Twisted Charge, Up the Hill, Walk the Walls, and Wall Jumper.
Improvised Weapon (Ex): living life on the street the Traceur has learned to use thing around her as weapons. At 2nd level the Traceur no longer has -4 penalty when using an improvised weapon.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 3rd level, a Traceur retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a Traceur already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.
Lightning Strike (Ex): Traceurs have learned that time spent honing there skills have left their offence a little weakened, however with their training they have learned that they are quick with their attacks as long as they keep moving. At 3rd level when the Traceur makes a full attack and she moves at least 5ft she may make another attack made at her highest base attack bonus. at 9th level the Tracuer gains another attack at her Highest Base attack bonus with a -5 penalty, and at 15th level she gain an additional attack made at her highest Base Attack Bonus with a -10 penalty.
Trap Sense (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a Traceur gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise by +1 every four Traceur levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level). Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
Evasion (Ex): At 5th level or higher if a Traceur makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a Traceur is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Traceur does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Perfect Landing (Ex): At 5th level or higher, a Traceur knows how to land a fall to reduce injury. When first using this ability, she takes damage as if the fall were 10 feet shorter than it actually is. The Traceur’s ability to land the fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall) improves with her Traceur level. If the Traceur is within arm’s reach of a wall she can use it to slow her descent; doubling the fall reduction (i.e. a 5th level Traceur will reduce her fall by 10ft but if the Traceur is adjacent to a wall she will reduce her fall 20ft) until at 20th level she can use a nearby wall to slow her descent and fall any distance without harm.
Great Leap: 6th Level Complete Adventure Page 8
Flawless Stride: 7th Level Complete Adventure Page 13
Untiring (Ex): A Traceur can seem to run for hours on end. When hustling a Traceur receives the normal non-lethal damage that anyone receives for hustling; however she no longer becomes fatigued from the damage gained from hustling.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 10th level and higher, a Traceur can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the Traceur by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Traceur levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.
Improved Evasion (Ex): At 14th level, a Traceur’s evasion ability improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless Traceur does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Defensive Roll (Ex): At 16th level once per round, when the traceur would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), you can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, you must attempt a Reflex save (DC is equal to damage dealt). If the save succeeds, you take only half damage from the blow; if it fails, you take full damage. You must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute your defensive roll, if you are denied your Dexterity bonus to AC, you can’t use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, evasion does not apply to the defensive roll.
Elusive(Ex): At 18th level the Traceur no longer suffers extra damage granted by Devastating Hit, Power Attack, Powerful Charge, and Overkill.

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	AC 	Speed 	
                                       Bonus    Bonus   Special
1st	+0 	+2	+2	+0	+0	+10ft	Bonus Feat, Parkour
2nd	+1	+3	+3	+0	+0	+10ft	Bonus Skill Trick, Improvised Weapon  
3rd	+2	+3	+3	+1	+0	+20ft	Uncanny dodge, Bonus feat, Lightning Strike
4th	+3	+4	+4	+1	+0	+20ft	Bonus Skill Trick, Trap sense +1
5th	+3	+4	+4	+1	+1	+20ft	Evasion, Perfect Landing 10ft
6th	+4/	+5	+5	+2	+1	+30ft	Bonus Skill Trick, Great Leap
7th	+5/	+5	+5	+2	+1	+30ft	Bonus feat, Perfect Landing 15ft, Flawless Stride
8th	+6/	+6	+6	+2	+1	+30ft	Bonus Skill Trick, Trap sense +2
9th	+6/	+6	+6	+3	+1	+40ft	Perfect Landing 20ft, Untiring, Lightning Strike
10th	+7/	+7	+7	+3	+2	+40ft	Bonus Skill Trick, Improved Uncanny dodge
11th	+8//	+7	+7	+3	+2	+40ft	Bonus feat, Perfect Landing 25ft
12th	+9//	+8	+8	+4	+2	+50ft	Trap sense +3
13th	+9//	+8	+8	+4	+2	+50ft	Perfect Landing 30ft
14th	+10//	+9	+9	+4	+2	+50ft	Improved Evasion
15th	+11// 	+9	+9	+5	+3	+60ft	Bonus feat, Perfect Landing 35ft, Lightning Strike
16th	+12///	+10	+10	+5	+3	+60ft	Trap sense +4, Defensive Roll
17th	+12///	+10	+10	+5	+3	+60ft	Perfect Landing 40ft
18th	+13///	+11	+11	+6	+3	+70ft	Elusive
19th	+14///	+11	+11	+6	+3	+70ft	Bonus feat, Perfect Landing 45ft
20th 	+15///	+12	+12	+6	+4	+70ft	Trap sense +5,

Thats it Let me know what you think.

[cferejohn]

What is a "Traceur"? I'm just not seeing the concept here. So he's got lots of dodgy stuff, but that seems to be about it. No way of dealing damage, no spellcasting, no party buffing. I'm not sure what you were going for, but this seems way underpowered. It needs some way of dealing damage. It isn't even a good skill monkey. He's got good mobility, but nothing to do with it. I mean, he gets up to a monster in combat and what, hits him with a short sword? With a mediocre BAB progression?

Some fluff would help with more useful suggestions. It doesn't have to be long, just like "A Traceur is a skirmishing fighter, who specializes in..." umm, not sure how to finish..."not getting hit?" Except of course he's worse at it than a fighter with decent equipment.

Right now, he's pretty close to a Rogue with no sneak attack. Is he supposed to be some kind of super-messenger? That would make some sense, but I'd make it an NPC class (or maybe like a 5 level PrC where he gets a lot of this stuff more quickly).

[Inyssius Tor]

They're insanely awesome french urban acrobats.
-like a crazy ninja-

[cferejohn]

Ohhh. Those goofballs. Yeah, I've seen that kind of thing. Well OK, the class makes sense as far as it goes, but it's still dramtically underpowered. Looking at the real life equivalent, it's not like these guys are trained in combat....

Player 1: I am trained in the mystical arts and can shoot fire from my hands.
Player 2: I spent my youth training with weapons and armor.
Player 3: I grew up on the streets, fighting for my meals. I stole to survive, and I know how to take advantage of my opponent's weaknesses.
Player 4: Uhh, I spent my youth learning how to jump between balconies...and, umm, getting high...

If you want this kind of thing, I think a 5 level PrC is probably the way to go (or maybe a custom feat chain off of Acrobatic). For the PrC, make the entry requirements some decent number of ranks of Tumble, Climb, and Jump, maybe Evasion as well. Problem with a PrC is that you're replicating many of the abilities the classes who might want to take this PrC (Rogue, Monk, maybe Barbarian) already have. Give them some unique abilities that other classes can't easily replicate. The ability to make super long jumps (like +20 to one jump check/day/level), a boost to their climbing speed (instead of the regular speed boost), the ability to take 10 on jump and climb checks even under pressure. Maybe some way of using nearby structures to his advantage in combat? Like a wall-kick ability or something like that? That bonus skill trick stuff sounds good, but it's evidently from some book I don't have.

If someone were to take this, they'd be getting mobility (the concept, not the feat), at the expense of 5 levels almost total combat ineffectiveness, so you'd better make the mobility they gain really awesome. I mean, a rogue 15/Traceur 5 better be able to get his sneak attack off a lot to make up for the lost dice of damage.

[Inyssius Tor]

It's from Complete Scoundrel, but Wizards has a preview online. One of the tricks preview'd: Wall Jumper.

[Chavik]

If they're supposed to be like the real traceurs give them street-kid like abilities. proficient with improvised weapons maybe...In my mind i picture real-life traceurs fighting like jackie chan... using anything and everything around him to escape harm... watch his movies... he uses mundane equipment all the time

PS: they may be better as a prestige class...

[homerjay]

If they're supposed to be like the real traceurs give them street-kid like abilities. proficient with improvised weapons maybe...In my mind i picture real-life traceurs fighting like jackie chan... using anything and everything around him to escape harm... watch his movies... he uses mundane equipment all the time

I like that idea, thanks!

PS: they may be better as a prestige class...

It would seem that is general consensus, however I feel that 5 or 10 levels will not include every thing that I want for them and if it did it would be overpowered. This is a concept class. I am looking for ideas to improve it. I see that it is lacking on offensive abilities, should I increase its BAB? what other offensive abilities could I give it?

This should have been included into my OP, Traceur & Parkour some neat Video and Pictures

[Wizard_Tom]

You may want to add some things that let them redirect attacks at nearby foes if you're going with the jackie chan fighting style, and possibly something akin to Agile Riposte (Opponent provoke AoO when they miss).

[Chavik]

You may want to add some things that let them redirect attacks at nearby foes if you're going with the jackie chan fighting style, and possibly something akin to Agile Riposte (Opponent provoke AoO when they miss).

The Giant himself has mentioned some feats that would make nice abilities.... like:

Interference [General, Fighter]
The more opponents you fight, the more likely they are to get in each other's way.
Prerequisites: Dex 13+, Dodge, Mobility.
Benefit: When you are not flat-footed, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class for every two opponents within 5 feet that are threatening you (maximum bonus of +4 if you are completely surrounded).

Go to the gaming page and click on fighter chain feats

FLUFF:

Tekrik was abandoned at an early age when his mother died of the plague and his father was drafted by the barons army. He quickly developed an aptitude for escaping thugs in the cities grungy alleys. He was often confronted by gangs looking for trouble and strating learning to use everything in reach be it a ladder or a horseshoe to his advantage. Then one day as he was routinely stealing a loaf of bread he caught a glimpse of a young woman dressed in simple clothing perched on a nearby rooftop watching him. She was unarmed, disheveled and yet captivatingly beautiful. She fled when he made eye-contact and so he decided to follow her. he climbed fences, scaled walls and leapt from rooftops to balconies and when he finally caught her he was greeted. He was surrounded by a group of young athletic people, humans and non-humans alike, all lean and strong looking with dirty looking clothes. He at first was nervous thinking he was being brought into a trap, until an Elvish male with a braided ponytail stook out his hand and said "I am Erutaron, Master Traceur. Care to see if you're ready for us?"

This is just an idea and as the creator you can deny me completely... it wont hurt... but now that I look at it Traceurs could make sense as a loosely organized group. Self-trained but accepted into groups. Its something you dont encounter often. Wizards and Rangers are self-taught and anti-social, whereas Fighters can be individual but they usually have formal training.

[cferejohn]

This class is absurdly far from being overpowered. You could add almost all of these abilities to a 5 level PrC and I'm still not sure it would be overpowered (fewer feats, obviously). What's a Rogue getting that he would prefer to the extra sneak attack dice?

[homerjay]

This class is absurdly far from being overpowered. You could add almost all of these abilities to a 5 level PrC and I'm still not sure it would be overpowered (fewer feats, obviously). What's a Rogue getting that he would prefer to the extra sneak attack dice?

It's not a rogue:

Fast Movement +70ft, a +20 bonus to most Phisical skills, +4 AC Bonus (+ wis mod), 5 Bonus Skill Trick, Uncanny Dodge, Perfect Landing 45ft (slowfall unlimited-ft) Great Leap, Flawless Stride, Untiring, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Defensive Roll, and Elusive. They can all be put into a 5 level Prc?!

[homerjay]

FLUFF:

Tekrik was abandoned at an early age when his mother died of the plague and his father was drafted by the barons army. He quickly developed an aptitude for escaping thugs in the cities grungy alleys. He was often confronted by gangs looking for trouble and strating learning to use everything in reach be it a ladder or a horseshoe to his advantage. Then one day as he was routinely stealing a loaf of bread he caught a glimpse of a young woman dressed in simple clothing perched on a nearby rooftop watching him. She was unarmed, disheveled and yet captivatingly beautiful. She fled when he made eye-contact and so he decided to follow her. he climbed fences, scaled walls and leapt from rooftops to balconies and when he finally caught her he was greeted. He was surrounded by a group of young athletic people, humans and non-humans alike, all lean and strong looking with dirty looking clothes. He at first was nervous thinking he was being brought into a trap, until an Elvish male with a braided ponytail stook out his hand and said "I am Erutaron, Master Traceur. Care to see if you're ready for us?"

I like it can i use it?

[Chavik]

All rights to it are yours... if you want i can work up some artwork for it too. Maybe a portrait of erutaron with a cocky grin and that girl by his side...

[cferejohn]

OK, not *all* of it, but some of all of it. Some movement addition (maybe 20' total to regular speed and also 20' to climb, plus the ability to take 10 in pressure situations), some skill bonuses, some AC bonus, and a couple other things, at the expense of total combat inadequacy? As the class stands now, he's pretty much useless in a fight by oh level 6 or so. Yeah he's fairly hard to kill. Barbarians are hard to kill too. They hit much much harder.

I mean yes, this guy is going to be awesome at urban gymnastics, but having the most awesome urban gymnast ever isn't really *good* for anything when it comes to fighting monsters. However, someone who has other skills spending some of their development time specializing in urban gymnastics, well that makes sense. If you want to use this as a base class, you've got to find some way for him to contribute in combat.

[homerjay]

All rights to it are yours... if you want i can work up some artwork for it too. Maybe a portrait of erutaron with a cocky grin and that girl by his side...

That would be wonderful thanks!

If you want to use this as a base class, you've got to find some way for him to contribute in combat.

Do you have any ideas? with spring attack they can move in and out of combat without getting hit thats pretty good. what other ideas do you have?

[Doctari]

As it's written I would take 1 level of this to double my monks Wisdom bonus to AC as well 10 free feet of movement and a bonus to a lot of monk skills right out the gate.

[Chavik]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Traceur are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the Handaxe, Kukri, Short Sword, and Scimitar.

EDIT: Maybe instead you could do proficiencies that fit more to a streetfighter type ex: all simple weapons, plus all concealable weapons (of tiny size), all gauntlet type wepons and improvised weapons.

just a thought

[homerjay]

EDIT: Maybe instead you could do proficiencies that fit more to a streetfighter type ex: all simple weapons, plus all concealable weapons (of tiny size), all gauntlet type wepons and improvised weapons.

OK, I added the Sap, Shuriken, and Short bow. the Gauntlet is a simple weapon and were do I find the feat for Improvised Weapons?

As it's written I would take 1 level of this to double my monks Wisdom bonus to AC as well 10 free feet of movement and a bonus to a lot of monk skills right out the gate.

The wisdom bonuses wouldn't stack would they? They are the same bonus type so you would use the beter of the 2 correct? sure you could get a +10ft to movement and your skill bonus from parkour would be 1 for 1 level in Traceur.

[Chavik]

heres on that i found

Improvised Weapon Fighting [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1
Benefit: you are proficient at fighting with any improvised weapons.
Normal: when using an improvised weapon you take a –4 penalty
Special: other general feats cannot affect an improvised weapon, feats like power attack, point blank shot and weapon focus cannot be used with a improvised weapon.

Medium-Size Rock = Mace, Light
Tree Branch/ Stool Leg = Club
Long pipe/ pool stick = Quarterstaff
Pool Darts = Dart
Kitchen knives/ cleavers = Dagger or short sword (depending on length)/ handaxe

the drunken master from complete warrior has a similar ability but its not a feat per se.

[homerjay]

Ok I added it Improvised Weapon at 2nd level.
let me know how it looks!

[cferejohn]

Do you have any ideas? with spring attack they can move in and out of combat without getting hit thats pretty good. what other ideas do you have?

Yeah, they can spring in and hit with a scimitar, probably with not much of a strength bonus, and at a mediocre BAB progression. Let's look at, oh 11th level or so. Every other class has ways to deal large chunks of damage and/or force others into save or die/suck situations. This guy is getting 2 attacks that will rarely hit against heavily armored opponents and won't do much damage when they do.

The most obvious thing to do is to give them sneak attack damage, though it does make them pretty similar to the rogue (more dodgy stuff, less skills). It doesn't *really* make sense though. Why would an urban acrobat be particularly good at finding people's weaknesses? Then again, why would an urban acrobat be particularly useful in combat in general. They probably wouldn't. And characters who at their core are not useful get very boring to play (unless you are in a very combat light campaign).

I don't see any way to make this viable player class while keeping the "urban acrobat" flavor. Forget mechanics: describe how you see this character contributing in a mid-to-high level fight where powerful magic users and expertly trained fighters are slugging it out. At best, he's going to be able to slightly inconvience a magic user who is not for some reason flying and invisible.

It still seems like this would work fantastically well as a PrC. These are useful skills to have, but by themselves they don't allow a character to contribute as much other than a messenger/courier (at least until someone gets teleport).

[homerjay]

Ok what about a ranger or paladin other then there BAB is a step up, they would be in the same boat (as long as it isn't a favord enemy or Evil).

What about an extra attack a round? It would be made at there highest attack bonus. they are a fast agile class and it would make more sense then Sneak attack.

[homerjay]

how about this?
Lightning Strike (Ex): Traceurs have learned that time spent honing there skills have left their offence a little weakened, however with their training they have learned that they are quick with their attacks as long as they keep moving. At 3rd level when the Traceur makes a full attack and she moves at least 5ft she may make another attack made at her highest base attack bonus.

[Chavik]

Lightning Strike (Ex): Traceurs have learned that time spent honing there skills have left their offence a little weakened, however with their training they have learned that they are quick with their attacks as long as they keep moving. At 3rd level when the Traceur makes a full attack and she moves at least 5ft she may make another attack made at her highest base attack bonus.

Sounds good, but maybe it should improve as they gain levels. The first installment allows them to make an extra attack at their full BAB... the second one should maybe give them a second extra attack at their second BAB...

[Doctari]

The wisdom bonuses wouldn't stack would they? They are the same bonus type so you would use the beter of the 2 correct? sure you could get a +10ft to movement and your skill bonus from parkour would be 1 for 1 level in Traceur.

The wisdom bonus to ac doesn't have a "type" pers e so it would stack. That's the reason classes such as ninja state specificily that it doen't stack with the monk bonus.

[Jarelk]

Hmm. I wouldn't add too many weapons, but a lot of, well, "Kung-Fu" skills, like:

Critical Stab(Ex): Every time someone attacks a Traceur, and carries no shield, the Traceur can choose to make a Dexterity roll versus the attacker's Attack Roll. If it higher (And not equal or less), the Traceur can make on attack on his turn that ignores any armor bonus to AC at that same opponent.

or

Battle Mobility (Ex): If an attack roll made by an opponent misses, the Traceur can choose to take advantage of the miss and use the opponents body to jump over him. This can only be done if there is no one behind that opponent. This technique also prevents the opponent from using any other attacks he may make in one round. On the Traceur's turn, the Traceur can then backstab the opponent ignoring armor bonus to AC.

Or such.

[cferejohn]

How about this: +10 speed at 3rd, 7th, 11th, and 15th, and at some point (9th maybe) you get to climb at 1/2 your speed (might want to limit it to an urban environment) and you can always take 10 on checks. That way they are the ultimate climbers, but they don't have a running speed of like 50 MPH for no good reason (I mean, I accept that speed boosts make sense, but there's no reason for this to be the fastest class on foot).

The combat abilities are headed in the right direction, but you need some big thing that scales with level a la sneak attack.

Imagine an 11th level combat against and adult Black Dragon (CR 11). The Barbarian, Fighter, and Ranger (and Wild Shaped Druid) are going to be able to deal alot of damage when they get off a full attack (which is difficult against a dragon I'll grant, but at least the potential is there). The rogue likewise is able to deal a lot of damage if he can get a sneak attack in. The Cleric and Wizard have a ton of save-or-die/save-or-suck spells. What can the traceur do to contribute in any meaningful way? I guess he could use poison, but that doesn't seem to be really appropriate.

I guess that's the point, you could add enough combat ability to make him viable, but at some point he's not really a "Traceur" anymore, he's some kind of super-fast fighter/rogue hybrid.

But (and I promise I'll drop it after this), imagine a Monk 15/Traceur 5 with a prestige class that gives you some really good climbing, jumping, etc. skills. It's Jackie Chan.

Maybe when I get Complete Scoundrel I'll work up a 5 level PrC of my own for it. I really like the idea.

[Fako]

Why not give him a Skirmish ability similar to the Scout? As long as he moves 10' or more in any given round, he gets a bonus to AC and extra dice of damage.

It would allow him to keep moving, but still contribute to battle at least a bit.

You could also give him the Spring Attack feat tree from PHBII. That would allow him to keep dancing around on the field while still contributing...

Just a few thoughts. Feel free to use/ignore them as you wish...

[homerjay]

How about this: +10 speed at 3rd, 7th, 11th, and 15th, and at some point (9th maybe) you get to climb at 1/2 your speed (might want to limit it to an urban environment) and you can always take 10 on checks. That way they are the ultimate climbers, but they don't have a running speed of like 50 MPH for no good reason (I mean, I accept that speed boosts make sense, but there's no reason for this to be the fastest class on foot).

They are also called Free Runners because thats what they mostly do; a lot of running. I figured that a lot of running would allow you to run faster. At 20th level a base speed of 30ft with the RUN feat a Tracuer can run 56.8mph wow thats fast, but a monk at 20th level base speed 30ft and the RUN feat can move at 51.1mph still amazingly fast. Wow I didn't ever do the math

The combat abilities are headed in the right direction, but you need some big thing that scales with level a la sneak attack.

what about an additional attack at 9th level at -5, another at 15th at -10. so at 20th level her base attack would be +15/+10/+5/+15/+10/+5 with a single weapon as long as she move 5ft. and it would be possable to wield 2 weapons with all the two weapon fighting feats and and a light weapon in her off hand to have +13/+8/+3/+13/+8/+3/+13/+8/+3. does that make sense?

But (and I promise I'll drop it after this), imagine a Monk 15/Traceur 5 with a prestige class that gives you some really good climbing, jumping, etc. skills. It's Jackie Chan.

Maybe when I get Complete Scoundrel I'll work up a 5 level PrC of my own for it. I really like the idea.

I dont mind you bring it up but I just didnt want to run it that way. and I would like to see what you come up with.

[homerjay]

The wisdom bonus to ac doesn't have a "type" pers e so it would stack. That's the reason classes such as ninja state specificily that it doen't stack with the monk bonus.

Then I shall clarify when I get home, that these will not stack.

Why not give him a Skirmish ability similar to the Scout? As long as he moves 10' or more in any given round, he gets a bonus to AC and extra dice of damage.

It would allow him to keep moving, but still contribute to battle at least a bit.

You could also give him the Spring Attack feat tree from PHBII. That would allow him to keep dancing around on the field while still contributing...

Just a few thoughts. Feel free to use/ignore them as you wish...

Thats a good point, and the Spring Attack feat tree look like it may have merit.