LGBTAI+ #50: Warning: This topic has exceeded its maximum awesome level.

[Kesnit]

I'm sending this from my phone, so can't quote. (Well, I could, but it will be a pain, and take longer than just writing.)

"Check your privilege" makes a lot of assumptions about the person it is aimed at. To all appearances, I'm a straight, white male with a doctorate. Is anyone (who doesn't know my past) going to believe that I have any idea what it's like to be gay, female, or unemployed and broke? Yet I lived for more years as a lesbian than I have as a straight man. I've had a lot of trouble finding work in my field, and have scrambled to pay my bills.

Explaining things - even if it takes longer - works a lot better than just throwing out "check your privilege." Two examples...
1) A few months after my now-wife and I started dating, I found out she had outed me to her mother and a close friend/second mother. She saw nothing wrong with what she'd done. I sent her a link to the movie "Boys Don't Cry" and explained that transphobia is a real and major problem. Once she understood, she apologized and promised not to out me without my permission. Had I not explained, she would not have understood why I was making such a big deal out of it. (After all, a lot of her friends knew an out transman, so how big a deal could it be..?)

2) I'd heard of people pulled over for "Driving While Black," but always wondered if it was as clear-cut as the people always made it seem. Monday, I'm arguing a suppression hearing on someone who really was pulled over for DWB. Working as a defense attorney has given me a new outlook on police that I would never have had, had I not done this job.

[Themrys]

Caroline (I'm not sure if that is what Enrico Dandolo would prefer to be called or if it's a more personal term I shouldn't be using-- if it's the latter, don't hesitate to tell me so) covered the rest of the points pretty well, but... would the blog in question be Requires Hate?

Oh, I love(d) Requires Hate. Quite useful for privilege-checking if one is not oversensitive. (I somewhat like open anger. It can be very refreshing in a blog.) Not much activity there, lately, and the topics became boring to me, though.

@Enrico Dandolo: A bathroom, whether gender-neutral or not, is never useless, methinks. One would have to be very privileged indeed to never have encountered the situation where one urgently needs a bathroom and there is none.

[Ravens_cry]

Oh, I love(d) Requires Hate. Quite useful for privilege-checking if one is not oversensitive. (I somewhat like open anger. It can be very refreshing in a blog.) Not much activity there, lately, and the topics became boring to me, though.

@Enrico Dandolo: A bathroom, whether gender-neutral or not, is never useless, methinks. One would have to be very privileged indeed to never have encountered the situation where one urgently needs a bathroom and there is none.

Or so under privileged that the world is your toilet.

[noparlpf]

If you do say "check your privilege" it should be surrounded by explanations of what sort of privilege is affecting their perceptions and how.

[Astrella]

I never use the exact phrase "check your privilege", I'll just try and point out in what way they're missing things.

[Themrys]

Or so under privileged that the world is your toilet.

True, but since the world is a gender-neutral toilet, the underprivileged would appreciate the usefulness of such a thing.

[Lentrax]

Should we take the privilege discussion to a separate thread? It's not really part of the support function?

Yes. Simply because the last time this discussion occurred with the people who are involved in it now, we almost got locked, people got angry and left, and everyone was hurt.

Move it out of here people!

[Comrade]

Oh, I love(d) Requires Hate. Quite useful for privilege-checking if one is not oversensitive. (I somewhat like open anger. It can be very refreshing in a blog.) Not much activity there, lately, and the topics became boring to me, though.

Requires Hate is pretty awesome, as much for the confrontational tone as for the actual content. Found some great books through that blog. Unfortunately they haven't posted in a while and it appears a lot of their older content has been deleted. Alas.

[Irish Musician]

Hello lovelies. Hope everyone is doing well. If not hugs and love to all.

A guy on Imgur doing a little AMA about him transitioning from F to M. Thought you might be interested.

Matthew

[Miriel]

I'm in a rush, but... approval on making a different thread.

Caroline (I'm not sure if that is what Enrico Dandolo would prefer to be called or if it's a more personal term I shouldn't be using-- if it's the latter, don't hesitate to tell me so)

I prefer Caroline.

[Comrade]

I prefer Caroline.

Alrighty, I'll bear that in mind.

[Miriel]

Sent a job application as a slave research assistant in my field. Wish me luck!

[Jaycemonde]

Should we take the privilege discussion to a separate thread? It's not really part of the support function?

Yes. Simply because the last time this discussion occurred with the people who are involved in it now, we almost got locked, people got angry and left, and everyone was hurt.

Move it out of here people!

Maybe now that regulars are saying it, someone will pay attention and get this crap out of the thread. That'd be nice. We can actually use it for, y'know, support stuff again.

In other news, who else here wears hoodies in Southern (or Northern if you're in the Southern hemisphere, I suppose) summer weather, just because you're too disgusted by your body to do anything else? I wear heavy jackets every single day because they kinda sorta hide my form, and I feel naked and vulnerable now that they're all in the laundry.

[Ravens_cry]

Sent a job application as a [strike]slave[/strike] research assistant in my field. Wish me luck!

Are, am, and will! Mostly good even!
I am taking steps to get assessed to see if treatments would help me, so a little good luck my way would also be a Good Thing.

[Lauren]

In other news, who else here wears hoodies in Southern (or Northern if you're in the Southern hemisphere, I suppose) summer weather, just because you're too disgusted by your body to do anything else? I wear heavy jackets every single day because they kinda sorta hide my form, and I feel naked and vulnerable now that they're all in the laundry.

Sometimes, or sometimes I layer my clothes other ways if it's genuinely too hot for a hoodie (summer here often pushes 50C/122F). If it's 40C+ I give up and wear the coolest clothing I can find because the heat overrides the body issues. I'm sorry that you feel that way; it's a crappy way to feel.

I don't think I mentioned this here yet; I was in the Queer Lounge at uni the other day chatting to two trans guys and one of them asked my pronouns and I dithered for a good five minutes over 'she' versus 'they'. I said 'I'm glad that in this space that's something people think to ask', and he said, 'And it's okay for you to change your mind.'

I love being back at uni to study, but having that safe space to hang out just makes it perfect. Everywhere else in life I'm presumed cis and straight and monogamous. I'm questioning, bi, and polyamorous, so having that one place where my identity doesn't get constantly erased is fantastic.

[Karen Lynn]

Maybe now that regulars are saying it, someone will pay attention and get this crap out of the thread. That'd be nice. We can actually use it for, y'know, support stuff again.

In other news, who else here wears hoodies in Southern (or Northern if you're in the Southern hemisphere, I suppose) summer weather, just because you're too disgusted by your body to do anything else? I wear heavy jackets every single day because they kinda sorta hide my form, and I feel naked and vulnerable now that they're all in the laundry.

I love my 3xl hoodie for this reason alone...
Gods I loathe this body...
I wish I knew where my gray one was... It was covered in emblems, stitch-ons, and iron-ons.
It was awesome. Lent it to a girlfriend at the time, never saw it again. *sad eevee*
I'm thinking of buying a new oversized hoodie to really let go with my creativity(and spray paint). A few stitch-on logos, a couple iron-on patches, and it'd be good.
Can you tell I like double-spacing?
Thinking of getting the UV reactive industrial piercings as well.
Why yes, i have issues staying on topic. Especially if it's a moderately serious one.

[Grytorm]

I kind of winder why I read this thread. I feel a bit out of place. But the hope is nice. The hope is worth reading about. (And the brisk pace)

That's an unfortunate situation to be in. I hope you can work through some of that nervousness at the very least. Is there a particular reason you don't feel safe talking to them about such things or is it just that your relationship has never really touched upon such things before?

I don't know if I will get over my nervousness. In my previous crushes, strictly on girls before, I remained fairly nervous throughout. This time it is a bit different because he doesn't automaticly fit into my self identity so I have to think more to understand my actual feelings. I recognize that nothing might come of it. Which is a little sad because it might be a unique incident. If it is and nothing happens a potential avenue for understanding myself might be closed. Interestigly he doesn't resemble the type of girl I usually become interested in.

For my parents, it is a combination of my relationship with them not going in that direction usually combined with a greater than average uncertainty. Also I don't talk to them much about my emotional problems. I am pretty certain I have depression (a therapist I saw for a while thought I did and I recently found an online resource that convinced me) and I don't like talking to them about my often poor self image. So already we lack a deep line of communication.

Also I like the idea of changng my name to August.

[Miriel]

I kind of winder why I read this thread. I feel a bit out of place. But the hope is nice. The hope is worth reading about. (And the brisk pace)

Why would you be out of place?

[Grytorm]

Why would you be out of place?

Because until recently I had not thought heavily on the topics discussed in the thread and considered myself a straight cismale with little a certain amount of regretable discomfort with the topics and in real life encounters with people dealing with these isssues*. In support threads I have little to contribute because I am not experienced enough to give advice on most topics and I think I sense a certan amount of self centeredness and attention seeking in my posts. Next I have a hard time fully uderstanding the main focus of the thread, transgenderism**. I am glad options are available for people whose bodies feel wrong but I have a hard time emotionally understanding dysphoria and how uncomfortable it might be. Last I worry that I enjoy the frustratios of others. I do not think I truly do so but I might draw a slight amount of pleasure from mild distress, though not distress on the evel of full despair.

* To the best of my knowledge I only have interacted with two gay men. And while I do like them I felt slightly uncomfortable in their presence. I do not think I have met a transexual in real life and I do not know what my internal reaction will be. I hope my thoughts and emotions won't be shameful.

** I know that the thread deals with the other topics. But this does dominate a lot for understadable reasons.

Edit: One more thing. I might semiintentionally consider myself an outsider in most situations to make yself feel better about being lonely and having what seems to be few freinds. The idea of turning myself blue to drive others away has occured to me as a life goal.

[Ravens_cry]

Everyone needs support sometimes. Even if you are an upper class white heterosexual cis-male, there is times when life can get one down.

[Miriel]

Because until recently I had not thought heavily on the topics discussed in the thread and considered myself a straight cismale with little a certain amount of regretable discomfort with the topics and in real life encounters with people dealing with these isssues*. In support threads I have little to contribute because I am not experienced enough to give advice on most topics and I think I sense a certan amount of self centeredness and attention seeking in my posts. Next I have a hard time fully uderstanding the main focus of the thread, transgenderism**. I am glad options are available for people whose bodies feel wrong but I have a hard time emotionally understanding dysphoria and how uncomfortable it might be. Last I worry that I enjoy the frustratios of others. I do not think I truly do so but I might draw a slight amount of pleasure from mild distress, though not distress on the evel of full despair.

* To the best of my knowledge I only have interacted with two gay men. And while I do like them I felt slightly uncomfortable in their presence. I do not think I have met a transexual in real life and I do not know what my internal reaction will be. I hope my thoughts and emotions won't be shameful.

** I know that the thread deals with the other topics. But this does dominate a lot for understadable reasons.

Edit: One more thing. I might semiintentionally consider myself an outsider in most situations to make yself feel better about being lonely and having what seems to be few freinds. The idea of turning myself blue to drive others away has occured to me as a life goal.

That's okay. But you're here. Everyone's welcome here.

To understand dysphoria, my standard example is this: Say everyone adressed you as Barbara or what not, called you "Ma'am", "she", etc., and just generally assumed you are a woman all the time. How would you feel? Of course, it's hard to know this until you actually live it, but it's one way to understand part of it.

[Grytorm]

I probably would dislike it. However the only problem with that as an explanation is recently I have begun considering experimenting in crossdressing/alternative gender identities in order to get a better understanding of myself and see how strongly I identify as male as opposed to simply falling into a male archetype*. That is why I am considering calling myself August. More gender neutral and it sounds cooler.

* I got onto this idea because I realized I had some trouble wrapping my head around the idea, so what if it is because I don't strongly identify as male, only act male.

[Serpentine]

I would just like to say, as a random aside, how nice it is that it seems to be increasingly common to be able to ask someone what their sexuality is and they will have actually thought about it, considered the different possibilities and come to an informed conclusion without just starting at straight at the default - or are okay with no conclusion and just saying "I'm not sure", as a friend of mine did the other day. I feel like this is a lot healthier for everyone.

Also someone I know shared this talk her girlfriend gave on "Embracing Cisgender", if anyone's interested.

[Lentrax]

*sigh*

My weekend is almost over, which means I have to say goodbye to my pretty purple nails again...

Until next week my lovelies.

[Asta Kask]

Maybe now that regulars are saying it, someone will pay attention and get this crap out of the thread. That'd be nice. We can actually use it for, y'know, support stuff again.

I was actually really nervous that my comment would be seen as patronizing or White Knighting. Maybe I'm not clear on what those terms are.

[Zorg]

who else here wears hoodies in Southern (or Northern if you're in the Southern hemisphere, I suppose) summer weather, just because you're too disgusted by your body to do anything else? I wear heavy jackets every single day because they kinda sorta hide my form, and I feel naked and vulnerable now that they're all in the laundry.

Yep. Well not hoodies, but when I was in high school I wore long sleeve tees and long pants all year 'round for several years to hide myself. Was also partly to hide self harm marks but even when I didn't have them I still did.

[Jaycemonde]

I was actually really nervous that my comment would be seen as patronizing or White Knighting. Maybe I'm not clear on what those terms are.

Spoiler: Definitions

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White Knighting is freaking out on people for posting things seen as immoral or taboo on the Internet, for the Poor, Defenseless Chilluns might see them and be Forever Scarred, or worse, be Influenced; it's kinda the trans/homo/bi/fur/etc. -phobic counterpart to being a Social Justice Warrior (same methods and excuses, different moral reason). The very existence of an LGBTAI+ thread is probably enough for some types to take up White Knighting for.

Patronizing is the same thing as condescending; you're talking down on someone and acting like they're either dangerously ignorant to the point they'll hurt themselves or just full-on stupid. It usually involves passive-aggressive statements and various forms of baby talk.

So no, you're cool on both counts.

[Philemonite]

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How much do you like him? I mean, I decided that I didn't want a relationship with a guy who told me he dislikes feminism, even though I liked him a lot before that, since I really don't feel able to cope with it.
You might decide he is worth the trouble, but ... well ... it's up to you. If this was an unpleasant experience for you, you probably do not want to talk about the topic even more. If he seems really interested in you, you could send him some links so that he can go educate himself, I guess?

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Education is not an option, he doesn't want to change his mind. I can kinda understand his opinion. He said that some guys (not me) wanted him to dress up as a woman in order to have sex with him. He is male and has no intention of acting as if he was female, and that's OK. The problem is he has this, well, I wouldn't call it hate, but let's say strong feelings towards trans people. It's not a direct problem for me, since I'm not trans, but I still don't like it.
The good thing is that he apologized after I explained that I didn't want to talk about it, and he kept pushing.

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I would cut the link right there. But then, I'm very selective.

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The thing is, he seams like a nice guy, he just doesn't know what he is talking about, and he doesn't want to listen. I think I'll at least meet him in person first, and then decide what to do. Knowing my luck he will turn out to be a creep, so I won't have to think about it.

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So, wait, you're just concerned because he made a fuss about needing to be sure of your gender?

Ah well, doesn't matter. Unless you think he's educatable, I would say he's not workable. *shrug*

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No, there is no doubt about my gender, that wasn't an issue. I'm cis, he's cis, so that's not a persona issue. But it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. That whole "penis makes you a guy" attitude really sucks.

A year ago, I would have completely agreed with him and moved on. Of course, that was before I knew anything about the subject. I really have learned a lot since I came here.

In support threads I have little to contribute because I am not experienced enough to give advice on most topics and I think I sense a certan amount of self centeredness and attention seeking in my posts.

Sometimes, all you need is someone to listen to you and offer virtual hugs. Even if you don't have any advice you can still help a lot.

[Themrys]

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No, there is no doubt about my gender, that wasn't an issue. I'm cis, he's cis, so that's not a persona issue. But it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. That whole "penis makes you a guy" attitude really sucks.

A year ago, I would have completely agreed with him and moved on. Of course, that was before I knew anything about the subject. I really have learned a lot since I came here.

Spoiler: Gender and the definition

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Yeah, that's why I thought he could be educatable. I held a "womb makes you a woman" attitude for a long time - I really, really, really hate that whole gender role stuff, and it makes me very angry when someone talks about "unfeminine women" as if being a woman was some kind of job you can do better or worse, so "dress makes a woman" is an attitude I cannot support. I'm now okay with "identification as woman makes you a woman" - I really don't want to hurt transwomen, and it's okay for me if they want to wear make-up and stuff because it makes them feel more female, I just don't like it when people tell me to act or dress more "feminine". If someone uses existing stereotypes to get people to not misgender them, okay - but I hate people who insist that those stereotypes are a good thing and should never change.

Maybe he's just angry at people who don't consider him a "real man", and that is why he refuses to change his opinion/listen?

[Philemonite]

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Yeah, that's why I thought he could be educatable. I held a "womb makes you a woman" attitude for a long time - I really, really, really hate that whole gender role stuff, and it makes me very angry when someone talks about "unfeminine women" as if being a woman was some kind of job you can do better or worse, so "dress makes a woman" is an attitude I cannot support. I'm now okay with "identification as woman makes you a woman" - I really don't want to hurt transwomen, and it's okay for me if they want to wear make-up and stuff because it makes them feel more female, I just don't like it when people tell me to act or dress more "feminine". If someone uses existing stereotypes to get people to not misgender them, okay - but I hate people who insist that those stereotypes are a good thing and should never change.

Maybe he's just angry at people who don't consider him a "real man", and that is why he refuses to change his opinion/listen?

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Right now that is definitely not an option. Maybe one day he will be ready to listen, and I would be happy to share what little knowledge I have.
I think that is his way to block insecurity. It's misdirected, but he has no intention of changing his mind.