LGBTAI+ #50: Warning: This topic has exceeded its maximum awesome level.

[Asta Kask]

*musing*

SMEE had an article on vat-grown vaginas which would be better than the neovaginas we construct today. I'm probably a little slow here, but wouldn't that mean that the penises of trans women are available for transplantation to trans men?

[SMEE]

No.
Because those vat grown vaginas were grown from healthy cells from the patient's sexual organ.
Trans women don't have vagina cells to have a full grown one to be grown from.
Some steam cell engineering will be needed before this is actually possible.

And even then, why not use more steam cell engineering to build male sexual organs for the transmen, thus avoiding the need to use anti-rejection meds?

[Asta Kask]

No.
Because those vat grown vaginas were grown from healthy cells from the patient's sexual organ.
Trans women don't have vagina cells to have a full grown one to be grown from.
Some steam cell engineering will be needed before this is actually possible.

And even then, why not use more steam cell engineering to build male sexual organs for the transmen, thus avoiding the need to use anti-rejection meds?

If you can invert a penis to build a vagina, you can probably use the cells from the penis to build a vagina. My guess is it would be more complex, but not all that. Rejection is a factor, yes, but after all we implant uteruses now. The trans man would have to think about how clearly a penis would be (I don't know if it would be erectile, though).

Apparently they've grown a rabbit penis in the lab though, so it might be better to go the lab-grown penis anyway.

[SMEE]

No, you cannot.
If you grow cells from an organ in a vat, they will grow back to be that very organ.
You need to engineer it so it would grow into what you desire, and we are very far away from that kind of capability. We are still struggling to make steam cells to grow into what we want.

[Astrella]

Bleh, have someone insisting to me that society and the medical institution encourage cis gay folks to transition in order to make them straight... which makes no sense at all considering how society looks down on trans people and how much gatekeeping there is in our mental care.

[Lentrax]

Bleh, have someone insisting to me that society and the medical institution encourage cis gay folks to transition in order to make them straight... which makes no sense at all considering how society looks down on trans people and how much gatekeeping there is in our mental care.

That us one of the worst logical fallacies I have heard today.

"Here, change from one thing people dislike into something those same people dislike even more! It's okay! It could even be fun!"

[razovor]

Bleh, have someone insisting to me that society and the medical institution encourage cis gay folks to transition in order to make them straight... which makes no sense at all considering how society looks down on trans people and how much gate-keeping there is in our mental care.

That is I believe still how it is done in Iran. I'm told things were pretty bad in the UK a few decades ago, but they are largely understanding of the difference between gender and sexuality now.

[The Succubus]

Bleh, have someone insisting to me that society and the medical institution encourage cis gay folks to transition in order to make them straight... which makes no sense at all considering how society looks down on trans people and how much gatekeeping there is in our mental care.

So why are these cis gay people seeing *gender* therapists, etc in the first place if they were being coerced into transitioning?

[Axinian]

*hugs Caroline* I hope that you are soon able to feel safe again

Bleh, have someone insisting to me that society and the medical institution encourage cis gay folks to transition in order to make them straight... which makes no sense at all considering how society looks down on trans people and how much gatekeeping there is in our mental care.

Even if this weren't fallacious it's still so blatantly untrue (in the US) that I'm not sure how they come up with this idea.

---------------------------------

So... I came out to my dad. Things went pretty well... all things considered...

Spoiler: details

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So... he's totally OK with me crossdressing around the house. He has no moral objection to it really. He was more apprehensive about me dressing as a woman in public. Quoth he "it's ok to have a public life and a private life... you don't need to present yourself the same way all the time." My counter to that is... well this isn't something I should have to hide, what if I WANT to present this way in public? We talked about transitioning too, and he's in the "accept yourself the way you are" camp. He doesn't deny the existence of trans people, though. He completely recognizes that some people are women in men's bodies (and the reverse) but he says its "healthier" to learn to live as a woman in a man's body rather than undergo radical bodily changes. For the record, he's against any sort of bodily modification that isn't absolutely necessary (many trans people would contest that transitioning "isn't necessary" for them but whatever). He doesn't like tattoos, piercings, plastic surgery, any of that, so at least he's consistent.

My counter to this, which he didn't entirely reject, is that transitioning IS learning to love yourself as you are. It's acknowledging your inner self and working to be at peace with it. I don't see anything "spiritually heathy" about preserving one's body the way it is. If there's a problem, change it. In my mind, if I feel that a woman's body would fit me better, not doing something about it isn't "accepting myself," it's giving up. I'm not saying trans people who don't transition are necessarily giving up, but for me it would be. I see no reason why I should have to live in a body that causes me distress when it is in my power to fix the problem.

I'm still not certain that transition is a thing I want to do. I'm kind of identifying as gender fluid right now and I told him as such. He said "if transitioning is something you really, truly feel you want to do, I won't stop you, but I would strongly advise you against it."

So... yeah. That's not the whole conversation, but I guess I'm in the clear? He seems accepting right now, but I wonder if he'll feel the same should start presenting as a woman on a regular basis.

[SiuiS]

*musing*

SMEE had an article on vat-grown vaginas which would be better than the neovaginas we construct today. I'm probably a little slow here, but wouldn't that mean that the penises of trans women are available for transplantation to trans men?

No, beca—

No.
Because those vat grown vaginas were grown from healthy cells from the patient's sexual organ.
Trans women don't have vagina cells to have a full grown one to be grown from.
Some steam cell engineering will be needed before this is actually possible.

And even then, why not use more steam cell engineering to build male sexual organs for the transmen, thus avoiding the need to use anti-rejection meds?

Yeah, that.

The procedure specifically used cells swabbed from the vulva. I am not entirely sure what the cellular difference is, there, but the specific tissues do matter. To grow a vagina you need to have cells which perform the required function. I don't think the human body has valid vaginal cells outside of a vagina, either.

Bleh, have someone insisting to me that society and the medical institution encourage cis gay folks to transition in order to make them straight... which makes no sense at all considering how society looks down on trans people and how much gatekeeping there is in our mental care.

That's... Bizarre.
So wait, what?

A gay male becomes a straight female and that's a bad thing because... Reasons? But they are legitimately female (else they wouldn't be straight of a sudden) and...

I can't brain this.

So why are these cis gay people seeing *gender* therapists, etc in the first place if they were being coerced into transitioning?

"Internalized sexism". Duh.

[Astrella]

@Axinian; glad it went okayish. The "keep private and public life seperate" is something my parents told me too the second time I came out to them last summer. Hopefully he'll ease up on it.

[SiuiS]

Axinian, some stuffs.

It's not really cross-dressing to dress appropriate to your gender. Giving in to that sort of 'this is what normal is and you gotta respect that institution' is usually more damaging than not.

Also, see my signature; there's caution, and there's socially mandated stagnation. Be careful. If you give in and do the whole "public life/private life" thing, you're going to get a lot of 'well you already made this sacrifice, why not make one more? Why not make things easier for me? What about me?' And it gets harder and harder to stand up for yourself.

[Jaycemonde]

Then again, I'm pretty certain "I'll beat you with a rubber hose" is a very America-centric threat,

Wait, are you saying that other countries don't have rubber hoses? You can find those in practically any gasoline- or diesel-based engine. If you mean water hoses, most hoses in America are actually plastic.

...so it's probably not filtered into the group consciousness as background noise, kind of like how most cities in the world aren't designed with automobiles in mind like they are in America.

Fun fact: Highways were actually designed with aircraft in mind, not ground vehicles. They're supposed to be wide, level, and long enough to be used as runways and airfields in the event of an invasion.

[Axinian]

Axinian, some stuffs.

It's not really cross-dressing to dress appropriate to your gender. Giving in to that sort of 'this is what normal is and you gotta respect that institution' is usually more damaging than not.

Also, see my signature; there's caution, and there's socially mandated stagnation. Be careful. If you give in and do the whole "public life/private life" thing, you're going to get a lot of 'well you already made this sacrifice, why not make one more? Why not make things easier for me? What about me?' And it gets harder and harder to stand up for yourself.

Oh, I'm not giving in to what he was saying, no no. I was just relating how the conversation went. In fact, today, he did a little bit of the "can you go a little easy on it at first? this is sort of a big change" and I was like "No. I won't make unreasonable demands of you but I'm not gonna hold back on account of your discomfort."

Like, I'm kind of going with gender fluid right now because... I don't know, I like presenting female but I'm still working through whether I actually am female or male or if I even fit into those two.

[Eldest]

Wait, are you saying that other countries don't have rubber hoses? You can find those in practically any gasoline- or diesel-based engine. If you mean water hoses, most hoses in America are actually plastic.



Fun fact: Highways were actually designed with aircraft in mind, not ground vehicles. They're supposed to be wide, level, and long enough to be used as runways and airfields in the event of an invasion.

I believe she is actually reffering to the cities themselves and not the highways between them, with our focus on rural-suburb-urban, as opposed to (what I saw at least) the village-village-village-village-city setup they have over in the old world, which iirc was far better at public transportation but worse on cars. Or perhaps she means something else and I just brought something up that was also a valid point but previously unrelated.

[Astrella]

Hi everyone, had the courage to wear my skirt today for the first time in ages with some leggings underneath. Took a picture too, you can see my new glasses as well. My phone's camera isn't great though so sorry for the picture being all grainy:

Spoiler: Picture

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[Lentrax]

Hi everyone, had the courage to wear my skirt today for the first time in ages with some leggings underneath. Took a picture too, you can see my new glasses as well. My phone's camera isn't great though so sorry for the picture being all grainy:

Spoiler: Picture

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Well, hello, cutie.

[SiuiS]

Wait, are you saying that other countries don't have rubber hoses? You can find those in practically any gasoline- or diesel-based engine. If you mean water hoses, most hoses in America are actually plastic.

But beating people with them is not something that is just sort of offhandedly referred to elsewhere, I believe.

Like, in a different thread, there was a conversation on Easter eggs. The American insisted they were colored hardboiled eggs hidden for children. The Brit said they were chocolate, you got one, you are it, the end. And it was the size of an ostrich egg.

E: gotta say though, I'm not totallyc. Inferable elaborating on my proficiency with violence in a support thread? I only cleared up what I did because trying to be coy led to lemon enemas and I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole either. If we could all roundly accept I'm a terrible human being and move on, it would be good.

Fun fact: Highways were actually designed with aircraft in mind, not ground vehicles. They're supposed to be wide, level, and long enough to be used as runways and airfields in the event of an invasion.

That's really cool! I heard that somewhere but forgot and or never looked into it. I still forget I have google in my pocket.

But no, I mean the layout and spacing of cities, streets, etc., is very car friendly in ways that out landers I speak to just don't see anywhere else in the world. We expect a city is designed for cars.

Eldest had it right, mostly.

Oh, I'm not giving in to what he was saying, no no. I was just relating how the conversation went. In fact, today, he did a little bit of the "can you go a little easy on it at first? this is sort of a big change" and I was like "No. I won't make unreasonable demands of you but I'm not gonna hold back on account of your discomfort."

Like, I'm kind of going with gender fluid right now because... I don't know, I like presenting female but I'm still working through whether I actually am female or male or if I even fit into those two.

Rock on! Good luck!


Lena: love the hair!

[SMEE]

Looking good there, Lena.

[Kesnit]

Bleh, have someone insisting to me that society and the medical institution encourage cis gay folks to transition in order to make them straight... which makes no sense at all considering how society looks down on trans people and how much gatekeeping there is in our mental care.

Guess they've never heard of lesbians who transition and end up as gay men...

[Coidzor]

Bleh, have someone insisting to me that society and the medical institution encourage cis gay folks to transition in order to make them straight... which makes no sense at all considering how society looks down on trans people and how much gatekeeping there is in our mental care.

I would remind them that they're confusing (dubious) anecdotes about Iran for the reality of the rest of the world, because I can't think of any other place they'd get such a wrongheaded notion without being a conspiracy nut and thus beyond help.

Hi everyone, had the courage to wear my skirt today for the first time in ages with some leggings underneath. Took a picture too, you can see my new glasses as well. My phone's camera isn't great though so sorry for the picture being all grainy:

Spoiler: Picture

Show

Well, the lighting and leggings conspire to make it awfully hard to appreciate the skirt on its own merits, at least on my monitor, but you're looking good at least.

[Jormengand]

Hi everyone, had the courage to wear my skirt today for the first time in ages with some leggings underneath. Took a picture too, you can see my new glasses as well. My phone's camera isn't great though so sorry for the picture being all grainy:

Spoiler: Picture

Show

Ermahgerd cute girl alert.

[golentan]

Hi everyone, had the courage to wear my skirt today for the first time in ages with some leggings underneath. Took a picture too, you can see my new glasses as well. My phone's camera isn't great though so sorry for the picture being all grainy:

Spoiler: Picture

Show

So CUUUUUUTE!

[Mono Vertigo]

Bleh, have someone insisting to me that society and the medical institution encourage cis gay folks to transition in order to make them straight... which makes no sense at all considering how society looks down on trans people and how much gatekeeping there is in our mental care.

... I'd be curious to hear what they think happens with bi folks. (With this train of logic, cis or trans, doesn't matter.)

Also, congrats about your going out!

[Lentrax]

Blergh...

I hate shaving. So. Much.

I can still feel beard stubble after shaving for ten minutes with two different razors.

Stupid face, not wanting to dehairify itself at my whim.

[Axinian]

Hi everyone, had the courage to wear my skirt today for the first time in ages with some leggings underneath. Took a picture too, you can see my new glasses as well. My phone's camera isn't great though so sorry for the picture being all grainy:

Spoiler: Picture

Show

CUTE! That shirt is adorable too!

Blergh...

I hate shaving. So. Much.

I can still feel beard stubble after shaving for ten minutes with two different razors.

Stupid face, not wanting to dehairify itself at my whim.

SO MANY TIMES THIS! Facial hair is way too persistent. I end up shaving several times some days because it comes back that fast..

[Lex-Kat]

I was alluding to just a vicious beating, myself, but it seems no one here has ever made a flog out of shredded rubber hose and never had lemon juice get into an open wound. *shrug*

Then again, I'm pretty certain "I'll beat you with a rubber hose" is a very America-centric threat, so it's probably not filtered into the group consciousness as background noise, kind of like how most cities in the world aren't designed with automobiles in mind like they are in America.

Never heard that (from Michigan). I remember hearing 'Up your nose, with a rubber hose.' Which doesn't sound too pleasant either.

Bleh, have someone insisting to me that society and the medical institution encourage cis gay folks to transition in order to make them straight... which makes no sense at all considering how society looks down on trans people and how much gatekeeping there is in our mental care.

Great, so according to them, I'd be going the wrong direction.

Hi everyone, had the courage to wear my skirt today for the first time in ages with some leggings underneath. Took a picture too, you can see my new glasses as well. My phone's camera isn't great though so sorry for the picture being all grainy:

Spoiler: Picture

Show

Looking good. Like the skirt, and the tee.

Blergh...

I hate shaving. So. Much.

I can still feel beard stubble after shaving for ten minutes with two different razors.

Stupid face, not wanting to dehairify itself at my whim.

Same problem here. Especially on my neck. The only way to make it smooth, is to shave from the right to the left. But that makes my neck break out in a rash.

[The Succubus]

Well, hello, cutie.

What she said. ^^

[lord pringle]

Ermahgerd cute girl alert.

So CUUUUUUTE!

I'm going to agree with these people.

[Dire Moose]

Hi everyone, had the courage to wear my skirt today for the first time in ages with some leggings underneath. Took a picture too, you can see my new glasses as well. My phone's camera isn't great though so sorry for the picture being all grainy:

Spoiler: Picture

Show

*GLOMP*

You're so cute!