The Pub: Off-topic chat for forum gamers

[Cyber Punk]

I've been playing CoA and have been having fun! I've also been playing werewolves game and... well, I've not liked it so far (apart from banjo's shenanigans... that was hilarious!). It's also been reminding me how much I love to host games.

I'd like to try my hand at hosting CoA when the next one comes up, if Lex-Kat is okay with it?

[banjo1985]

Hurrah for more CoA! Maybe I can last more than one round in the next one.

Yes, I'm allowed to use hurrah, it's an Englishman's prerogative.

WW games are an acquired taste, and to be honest the lack of RP in the recent games on the forum inhibits my fun somewhat too. I guess it's a side-effect of the posters on this part of the forum generally having much less time than they used to, me included. They are more fun when there's loads of RP that fits in with the narrative of the game.

[Cyber Punk]

Yeah, maybe it's the lack of RP. I like RP, and I had expected to see RPs of "He's the witch!" or somesuch. Now, I really can't wait for it to end. Or, like you said, acquired taste. I prefer the night rounds to the day rounds, because of the 'hey, let's lynch this person because!' bits.

Also, hurrah for more CoA. The premise/concept itself is loads of fun. It must be absurd for the characters. "I cannot slay him unless I know his secret. Why is this? I do not need to know his secret!" But then it's the secret that leaves them open to attack...

Are there any werewolf games with night rounds only?

[Aventine]

Are there any werewolf games with night rounds only?

Not really. The alternating between lynch phase and wolf kill phase is pretty much the defining element. You could make a game without it, but it wouldn't really be a werewolf game anymore.

That said, you might want to take a look at Careless. It still has day phases and lynches, but they are less important since the game is (was?) basically a battle between three wolf factions and everybody has a power role. You could take that to the extreme and get rid of the day phases altogether and probably have a pretty fun game (I would play it at least), but it really would be something other than werewolf.

[Legato Endless]

Nitpick despite complete general agreement with Banjo's post:

WW games are an acquired taste, and to be honest the lack of RP in the recent games on the forum inhibits my fun somewhat too. I guess it's a side-effect of the posters on this part of the forum generally having much less time than they used to, me included. They are more fun when there's loads of RP that fits in with the narrative of the game.

Acquired taste carries an odd connotation I think, as Mafia is far and away one of the most, if not the most, popular games of it's type. I mean, everyone is entitled to their proclivities with gaming, but that's like saying Settlers of Catan is an acquired taste, or Dominion in the context of deck building games. I don't care for Settlers as Euro games go, but I admit I'm something of a minority in the demographic.

[Cyber Punk]

That said, you might want to take a look at Careless. It still has day phases and lynches, but they are less important since the game is (was?) basically a battle between three wolf factions and everybody has a power role. You could take that to the extreme and get rid of the day phases altogether and probably have a pretty fun game (I would play it at least), but it really would be something other than werewolf.

Well, to be fair, I expected the lynch phases to be PM votings just like the night phase is about PM votings. The werewolf game I'm in, when I was put under suspicion, I responded in an bored manner because at this point I'd like to be left out of the day phases. If only games like CoA were more popular in this forum...

Nitpick despite complete general agreement with Banjo's post:

Acquired taste carries an odd connotation I think, as Mafia is far and away one of the most, if not the most, popular games of it's type. I mean, everyone is entitled to their proclivities with gaming, but that's like saying Settlers of Catan is an acquired taste, or Dominion in the context of deck building games. I don't care for Settlers as Euro games go, but I admit I'm something of a minority in the demographic.

Tell me more about this Mafia game! Is it similar to Werewolf?

[Ramsus]

I would try out more games before writing off the entire genre of games altogether. For example I've found I mostly just don't like the classic type games and like the stranger ones with lots of power roles or different mechanics. The day phase tends to be more interesting if there's more things to have information about or there are more things mechanically happening in it.

[Logic]

Well, to be fair, I expected the lynch phases to be PM votings just like the night phase is about PM votings. The werewolf game I'm in, when I was put under suspicion, I responded in an bored manner because at this point I'd like to be left out of the day phases. If only games like CoA were more popular in this forum...



Tell me more about this Mafia game! Is it similar to Werewolf?

Unless I am mistaken, it is simply a re-skin of werewolf with the names of roles and antagonists altered to change the setting.

[Cyber Punk]

I would try out more games before writing off the entire genre of games altogether. For example I've found I mostly just don't like the classic type games and like the stranger ones with lots of power roles or different mechanics. The day phase tends to be more interesting if there's more things to have information about or there are more things mechanically happening in it.

Well, the "let's prove why this person should be lynched" seems to be killing a lot of the 'fun', for me.

Maybe if I was a werewolf in the Salem Trials, I'd find it more fun. Or, maybe it's cos I like hosting games. I love playing RAF or CoA games. I love hosting them even more!

Unless I am mistaken, it is simply a re-skin of werewolf with the names of roles and antagonists altered to change the setting.

Awww, nuts.

[Lex-Kat]

I've been playing CoA and have been having fun! I've also been playing werewolves game and... well, I've not liked it so far (apart from banjo's shenanigans... that was hilarious!). It's also been reminding me how much I love to host games.

I'd like to try my hand at hosting CoA when the next one comes up, if Lex-Kat is okay with it?

I don't recall if Penguinator already called claim to the next one or not. But if he's okay with it, then I'm okay with you hosting the next CoA.

Guess I could put a schedule-like thing in Werewolf Central for it.

[Cyber Punk]

Speaking of schedules, if RAF has a schedule, I'm hosting the next one as soon as I'm done with exams (at the start of June). As for the theme, it's a toss-up between Sin City and 'ghosts in a haunted house'.

I can host CoA after Penguinator, it's no problem. Look forward to joining Penguinator's game though!

[DivisibleByZero]

Well, the "let's prove why this person should be lynched" seems to be killing a lot of the 'fun', for me.

I'm the opposite. That's the part of the game that I like.
I'm familiar with the game from other forums. I haven't played here since I joined (I lurked for a long while) because the style of the games here doesn't feel right to me.
I've been reading some of the more recent games, and a few of the older ones. The older ones are the ones that I wish I had been around for. The newer ones don't look like fun to me. The play style seems to have changed.
For example, the players seem to very frequently ask specific people to give their feelings on things, and those people are expected to answer or be considered suspects.
It appears that a vocal minority seem to force everyone to play by their style, and anyone that doesn't play that way gets lynched. I don't want to play a game like that, so I haven't joined a game on this forum.
I still keep an eye on the games recruiting though, in case I get lucky and find one where I don't think that will happen.... but I'm not holding out much hope.

[Duck999]

The let's prove why someone should be lynched part is how you get someone lynched when you think they are evil. Otherwise it is mostly random guessing for anyone who doesn't have their own role to get them evidence, or follow the seer type gameplay.

[Cyber Punk]

Follow the seer. That sounds interesting!

For example, the players seem to very frequently ask specific people to give their feelings on things, and those people are expected to answer or be considered suspects.
It appears that a vocal minority seem to force everyone to play by their style, and anyone that doesn't play that way gets lynched.

This. "Oh, X, I'm gonna suspect you for no reason unless you tell me why I shouldn't." Knock yourself out, pumpkin. >_> I'd prefer the 'send your guess via PM' method. "Hey, why'd you lynch me?" "Your guess is as good as mine!" Element of mystery and all that.

I still keep an eye on the games recruiting though, in case I get lucky and find one where I don't think that will happen.... but I'm not holding out much hope.

Should you find one, do holler!

[Ramsus]

I would like to point out that you can't change things you don't participate in. Also sometimes you don't have a grasp for why things are they way they are if you're not part of them long enough. It strikes me a bit strange to not play any werewolf games because of a dislike for one of many tactics.

Edit: And I'm sure I could name a few games, even recently, that don't fit the bill at all for those reasons and still haven't seen sign ups. (*coughmycurrentgamecough*)

[Internet Flea]

For example, the players seem to very frequently ask specific people to give their feelings on things, and those people are expected to answer or be considered suspects.
It appears that a vocal minority seem to force everyone to play by their style, and anyone that doesn't play that way gets lynched. I don't want to play a game like that, so I haven't joined a game on this forum.

Are they actually doing that now? I blame the Civfanatics guys.

But the thing about Werewolf is that the minority can't get people lynched unless the majority goes along with it. The difference between the new games and the old ones are how many people are willing to let the mechanics-heavy people run things.

I'm trying to think of a game structure that would minimize or stop tactics talk (it's pretty hard, that's... kind of the meat of the game). What would people think about a Werewolf game where roles are only assigned after a few days have passed and are based on people's roleplay?

[Cyber Punk]

Also sometimes you don't have a grasp for why things are they way they are if you're not part of them long enough. It strikes me a bit strange to not play any werewolf games because of a dislike for one of many tactics.

Edit: And I'm sure I could name a few games, even recently, that don't fit the bill at all for those reasons and still haven't seen sign ups. (*coughmycurrentgamecough*)

Heh... buyer's remorse, Ramsus! I didn't expect any "I suspect X, because 'this and that'" talk. There's a reason I've been giving one-word votes during the daytime. At nighttime, it becomes interesting, because you don't know who's gonna be killed off!

The only thing that stopped me from declaring my wolf/townie status was because I didn't want to be a killjoy. I'm sorry if I'm being a killjoy anyway, I'm just stating my opinion.

I like the Choose Your Own Adventure games, but the one with Xefas that I was in stalled at some point so I unsubbed. Subbing back, I had no idea how things had gone, so I unsubbed again.

[Legato Endless]

I've been reading some of the more recent games, and a few of the older ones. The older ones are the ones that I wish I had been around for. The newer ones don't look like fun to me. The play style seems to have changed.

Can you give some examples of games you liked? I'm sure some narrator would be happy to oblige if you had a speficie request.

Nice Avvie.

The let's prove why someone should be lynched part is how you get someone lynched when you think they are evil. Otherwise it is mostly educated guessing, logical deduction, crazed theories, erstwhile shots in the dark, and bluffing for anyone who doesn't have their own role to get them evidence, or follow the seer type gameplay.

Fixed that for you.

I'm trying to think of a game structure that would minimize or stop tactics talk (it's pretty hard, that's... kind of the meat of the game). What would people think about a Werewolf game where roles are only assigned after a few days have passed and are based on people's roleplay?

I'd play.

[Ramsus]

That idea sounds awesome IF... which doesn't help me much, all things considered. I guess I could just hope the idea for such things would catch on and maybe get some more people to be active here.

[DivisibleByZero]

Can you give some examples of games you liked? I'm sure some narrator would be happy to oblige if you had a speficie request.

It's not about the narrator and the game itself. It's about the play style of the players. When I first found this site due to a recommendation from someone, I read through some of the older games listed in the stickied thread above. Some of them looked like a lot of fun. Then I read some of the more recent games, and they looked a lot less fun to me.

I'm all for reading into peoples' posts and trying to extrapolate a thought process. That's what I have always enjoyed about Mafia games (which you guys call Werewolf here). But when I see that people are being lynched because they don't/can't/won't divulge every thought in their heads after being specifically called out to do just that, I lose interest.
If you can catch someone lying or eluding, great, that's what the game is about.
If you lynch someone because they won't be forced into that situation, you're forcing people to play the game the way that -you- want the game to be played. It becomes, "Play the game this way or get lynched," and that's not cool with me.
Unfortunately I see this a little too frequently in the games on this board, so I've never signed up for one.

I prefer to play it pretty close to my chest until I have something important to say. I'm fairly confident that style wouldn't work on this board, and I wouldn't enjoy being forced to change it.

[Duck999]

I don't like that situation either. I'm fine when someone says that you might as well give reads if you are dying anyway, but using lack of reads as a way to see if someone is trustworthy isn't right. You may be forcing reads out of someone who can't or won't make reads.

[Cyber Punk]

I feel the same way. I'd heard that WW games was the best thing since sliced bread. I'd even read through at least one old thread. (almost typed bread there ) Then I come to play and apart from not seeing the playstyle I expected (shouldn't have skipped reading the red text sections, silly me), I see this exact same thing DBZ's talking about.

Duck, it's obvious that I've lost interest in the game. Still, I might as well see this through to the end, I was the one that jumped at the chance to take over firedaemon33's role

[Duck999]

If anyone wants to replace you (anyone want to join my game? Legato?), it would be better for that to happen since more enthusiastic players make a game more fun, and have more fun themselves.

[DivisibleByZero]

I had to go back and look in the sticky to remember correctly, but if you want a more detailed explanation, then here it is.
I was referred here, as I said. I was told to check out Classic to get an idea of how games here played out. I was told that this would be m cup of tea, so to speak.
So I checked those threads out, to get a feel for the players here.

The early games were exactly what I would have enjoyed, just as was recommended. Some people are analysts. Some people are role play. Some people just generally kept their mouths shut and rode the tide in. Some people fall somewhere in between two or more of those styles.
People played the game, and no one was ostracized for having a different play style.

Now read the more recent games, and you'll see a markedly different dynamic. The games seem more about winning and less about playing the game. There are even plenty of times where I'd see someone call out another player, seemingly at random.
"Hey, so-and-so (who, until this point, wasn't a part of the debate that had been raging on), who are your top suspects and why?"
If that player didn't answer and provide a reasonable thought process, then that player would die.

I'm all for incentivizing the more lurker-esque players to be more active, but the heavy handedness with which I'd see it happen didn't appeal to me. Nor did the times where I'd see people break the spirit of the rules on a technicality.
"If there's no rule against it, then it's allowed" is not a philosophy I agree with, but it seems quite a few of you guys do.

Basically, when I got here I thought I'd really enjoy playing here. The more I read, the less interested I became.
:(

[Cyber Punk]

If anyone wants to replace you (anyone want to join my game? Legato?), it would be better for that to happen since more enthusiastic players make a game more fun, and have more fun themselves.

Yeah, I know. I hate to be a spoilsport.

Eh, let them lynch me. I'll be out of the game and everyone's hair.

[Lex-Kat]

What DBZ said might be part of the reason the games have lost their appeal here and other places. In my last game no-one RP'd at all, or was it so few started to that I didn't notice? I dragged that stupid game along, the narrations the only story with no contributions other than trying to lynch people. It felt like no one cared about the setting, just trying to win the game.

Now, I'm all for playing to win. I have no problem at all that usually by end game, people usually have forgotten the RP and just are trying to find the wolves. But it left me wondering if anyone actually enjoyed the game, or if they just played it. And writing narrations, it was tough because I was making up most everyone's character myself. I had a general idea of who they were, if they provided the character details I asked for (though not necessary to play).

In all 5 of my Assassins games, which I love tremendously, the players became part of the setting. They interacted with each other and made my job easier because I took what they wrote and tried to blend it into my narrations. Without the RP, I relied way too much on the show (Battlestar Galactica, 2003 series) itself.

And saying you didn't know the setting is not an excuse. Anyone can look up things on Wikipedia and get enough information to RP any setting. I wrote the final narration for Futurama WW (mostly narrated by Diva De and her husband Gryf) having not seen a single episode of the show. I looked it up and did the best I could with limited knowledge. Everyone seemed to enjoy my narration just the same.

The thing that is lost now days is that people are not playing relaxed. Everyone is tense, on guard. I've said it before, even before this post, people are over-analyzing things. People shouldn't get lynched on Day 1 based on analysis of what they've said. We shouldn't have fights brewing because someone feels they are being picked on, then others jumping onto them to isolate them further. This game is not a life or death situation. No one's winning any prize from annihilating the other team. (Not even trophies anymore, since no one seems to make them anymore, though I've never asked either.)

Fun, people!! It should be fun!

- - - Updated - - -

Cut.....

Basically, when I got here I thought I'd really enjoy playing here. The more I read, the less interested I became.
:(

I wish I knew how to bring the fun back. As you've read, it used to be better. I miss those days.

[Ramsus]

DBZ, you seem to be faulting all of us for something a few of us are doing. (And I suspect those you're remarking on are people who are fairly new here as well.) If you want something to change but aren't willing to participate in making that change happen when it's clearly something within the realm of possibility.... Well I dunno. Seems like you shouldn't make the complaint if you're not going to try. Honestly seems weird all in all since if you've looked back into the past here you'd be aware that, like everything else, the trends change with time and according to the people participating. So that should tell you that the changes you want are possible and also that they're less likely to happen if you're not part of making it happen. Sitting on the sidelines pointing out that you're sitting on the sidelines, while we clearly need more players in general, and refusing to play with us because of something you don't like but know you could change as it's not a thing everyone does (or necessarily will do forever) just kind of seems like you expect the situations you'd find favorable to just be sitting there waiting for you without having to do anything yourself. Sure that can happen, but it's ridiculous to count on it happening.

And of course you seem to be intentionally ignoring the games that don't fit into the complaint. Which just makes it sound like you want everyone to be playing the way you would like for every game. When you aren't even playing in any.

Edit: @Lex: I can't imagine fun not being subjective. I would hope the few people who haven't autolynched had fun with my game. And I was greatly enjoying Duck's game. Similarly I'm pretty certain people have had fun in games I really didn't enjoy. So I would imagine that the fun itself has not gone anywhere. Though we'd be having more of it with more people.

[DivisibleByZero]

It wasn't a complaint, it was an observation.
As for not being "willing to participate in making that change happen," I would think forcing others to play the game a certain way is exactly what I am not interested in doing. Was that unclear at all? I'm pretty sure that I made that point clear.

Why would I join a bunch of games that I'm almost certainly not going to enjoy (due to the player base's play style) in an attempt to do something that I don't want to see done (forcing a certain play style upon others)?
Your critique makes no sense.
The way that I like to play is not the way that everyone else may like to play. The same holds true in reverse. The way that some others like to play may not be the way that I like to play.
While the dominant play style on this board is in opposition with a game style that I will enjoy, why would I join a game?

And yes, trends do change. That's precisely why I'll keep an eye on games here. If the trend seems to change so that more styles are welcomed rather than shunned, then I'll probably join a few games. Until then, it's not going to happen. It may happen tomorrow. It may happen a year from now. It may never happen. Who knows? But I'm not going to try to force it. That's a losing proposition, and it's exactly what I don't like about the style here as it is.
I should compound the problem and that will make it better? How does that make sense?
Maybe the day will come for me to join some games here. That day is not today.

[Luizeu]

Just wanted to add somthing here.
I'm always anxious when I'm playing and I enjoy it. I'm the kind of player who loves seeing a new post and count the minutes for the day or night to end. All the games I've participated were awesome. In some of them I lost, others I won. But the result doesn't really really matter. At least to me. It's great to see all the effort you put into a game pay back. But a lost game is an opportunity to learn something new.
I personally don't like the RP very much. I'm in for the schemes, deceit, making and breaking alliances, and plot twists with all the reveals.
I just think it's a bit rude to not reward the narrator with your participation. I can only imagine the hard work of organizing, keeping track of votes and QTs. I've played Lex's, Ramsus's and Duck's games and it's noticeable all the effort they put into it. That should always be appraised, if not with praises at least with consideration.

[Cyber Punk]

The way that I like to play is not the way that everyone else may like to play. The same holds true in reverse. The way that some others like to play may not be the way that I like to play.
While the dominant play style on this board is in opposition with a game style that I will enjoy, why would I join a game?

This, as well. I was just about to post that there should be different game modes or something. In one mode, people do it the way it's being done these days. In another mode, people do it the way it was always done. Maybe call that one 'Classic' or something.

It's also why I'm a bit sad that there aren't more games like RAF and CoA and maybe CYOA around. I like structured games like the ones on this thread, but the active ones seem to be 80% werewolf/Mafia.

Can anyone recommend other games similar to CoA or RAF?