Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

**Mith** · 2014-09-30, 12:34 AM (ISO 8601)

Sightings of Sasu'que cha are rare, so I think an emphasis on stealth and ease of movement through terrain would be a priority. I am back and forth between either the resistance to poison or the increase strength. I would say the thick fur would be likely though because of the local climate.

**Admiral Squish** · 2014-09-30, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Admiral Squish

Pirates

Timeline
Hmm... Well, I must say I definitely like all the research you've done, very helpful, and I'm glad you shared.
On one hand, this proposal is very solid, it seems straightforward and historically plausible.
But on the other, I can't help but think that it would be a bit cooler if the island were to just be entirely independent. No veneer of civility, no undermined officials that lend legitimacy, nothin'. Just a straight-up pirate cove, held free of imperial control.

The only problem is how would that happen in a plausible way?

Leadership
No matter which version we settle on, I don't know about this council thing. I can't help but think we have a lot of places where leadership consists of a council of relatively equal leaders. I think we should have a pirate king, namely Blackbeard. If only because he's got the best name recognition, and had a very large crew at the time.

Nassau
Looked into this a bit. Apparently the island itself is and was called New Providence, Nassau is the name of the city. Which might be changed in this timeline.

In the lawless idea, I'm thinking that rather than accept a pardon, Blackbeard returns to New Providence with his his flotilla. It's a little hard to keep track of numbers, but I think at this point we're looking at Revenge, Queen Anne's Revenge, Adventure, a 'small turtler', and I believe it was six sloops in total. The last crew count I can find is for Revenge and a sloop, with 350 men between them. If the numbers follow that pattern, the full crew of a flotilla of this size is ~1400.
Anyways, he convinces his crew that accepting the pardon isn't an option, perhaps by lying to them and saying that the offer of immunity doesn't extend far enough back to save them from the gallows. It starts with just saying they're gonna lay low for a bit, take a few months to relax on the island. Even if my crew estimate is waaaaaay too high, it's still a massive influx of pirates into the local, very small, permanent population, which creates serious strain on the existing infrastructure. So Blackbeard has his crew build it up as they go (No point in laying low if we're all gonna starve before it's over). Perhaps one or more of the ships are crippled, and the captain lets them run it aground and disassemble it to provide materials (Not doing much good anyways). Then once the momentum gets going, he starts building it up further and further, perhaps setting up some guard towers (in case the fleet comes lookin' for them). Other pirates are now coming in to take advantage of the hideaway. Soon the hideaway is a bustling little outlaw port, with it's own miniature navy (Blackbeard's remaining flotilla), defensive structures, taverns, shops, traders... It's a no-questions-asked kinda place, so they could get shady traders from all across the Caribbean. Blackbeard eventually transitions from a pirate that rarely sails to a governor that leaves occasionally.

New Pirates
I don't want new pirates to just be the last generation's kids. It's possible that one or two of those might exist, but for the most part, I would like the big names to be all new. Which will be all kinds of fun, building new NPCs.

Knights

Right Hand of the Forerunner
Hmm... Perhaps you can propose a specific plan of action and the positions of the various fingers will give very accurate, but limited, information about the result.
Extended is a positive, curled is a negative, and halfway is mixed.
The thumb relates to thought and willpower. A positive response indicates the knights are smart enough and have the willpower to complete the plan.
The index relates to guidance and leadership. A positive response indicates the leadership of the knights is capable enough to handle it.
The middle finger relates to obedience. A positive result indicates the knights themselves can follow through and remain unified.
The ring finger relates to love. A positive result indicates the knight's plan will gain new allies or fortify old relationships.
The pinky relates to promises and communication. A positive result indicates the knights can obey and

Other artifacts
I will definitely have to research these, but I can't see a reason the icon would be involved in the weaving of cotton with my initial research.

Tuniitaq
Gah, this such a decision! They're both awesome! Either one would be able to make tuniitaq into a really, really interesting and distinct area, totally unique from other regions.

Sasquatches
So. Been workin' on these guys lately, I have the base culture and a hand-written version of the mountain culture done, and I'm planning to edit the sasu qua'che a bit into the new culture format. However, looking at the race... I realized a bit of a problem in the last ability. For one, the specialization toward one terrain shouldn't be a racial thing, no one kind of sasquatch is physically or mentally different, if they did have a specialization toward one terrain or another, it would have to be cultural.
So I've been thinking about possible changes to the race, and I'm sort of wish-washing between the various combinations of options, so I thought I would get some input from the thread.

Spoiler: Sasquatch trait ideas

Show

BASE TRAITS (12 RP)

+4 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence Sasquatches are extremely strong and tough, but they simply aren’t as clever as the average human.
Monstrous Humanoid Sasquatches are Monstrous Humanoids.
Medium Size Sasquatches are medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties based on size.
Darkvision Sasquatches can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Natural Armor Sasquatches have a +1 natural armor bonus to armor class, due to their tough skin and dense fur.
Bite Sasquatches have a natural bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage. This bite is a secondary attack.

POSSIBLE TRAITS
Dense Fur (Net 2 RP, replacing natural armor) Sasquaches have dense fur that protects them against both attacks and the environment. They gain a +2 natural armor bonus to armor class, and a +4 racial bonus to fortitude saves and constitution checks to resist the effects of harsh weather.

Musk (2 RP?) Sasquatches have a powerful musk they can release in dangerous situations. As a swift action a number of times per day equal to their constitution modifier, they can release musk into their fur. All creatures within 15 feet must make a fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ the sasquatch’s hit die + their constitution modifier) or be sickened for 5 rounds. Any creature that hits the sasquatch with a bite attack is nauseated for one round with no saving throw. Creatures that successfully save against this effect cannot be sickened by the sasquatch’s musk for 24 hours. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell or similar effect removes the effect from the sickened creature. This is a poison effect. The musk lingers for up to one hour after use, but this duration can be ended early by spending one minute washing.

Climb (2 RP) Sasquatches are adept climbers. They gain a climb speed of 20 feet, which grants a +8 racial bonus to climb checks.

Healthy (2 RP) Sasquatches are naturally resistant to diseases and poisons. They gain a +4 racial bonus to fortitude saves against disease and poison effects.

Wild-Walker (2? RP) Sasquatches can stride though wild places with ease. Sasquatches can move at their normal speed over natural difficult terrain. Magically altered terrain affects them normally.

Stealthy (2 RP) Sasquatches are naturally talented at avoiding notice. They gain a +2 racial bonus to stealth checks.

Mighty (4 RP) Strength bonus bumped up to +6

GOAL:
<20 RP

Just quoting myself so it doesn't get lost on the last page.

Yes, sasquatch sightings are rare, however, I think that could be explained by their nocturnal lifestyle and their general avoidance of humans. Plus, I hate to admit it, but it occurs to me that the wild walker thing could seem a little too... supernatural.
I think dense fur mostly has a point in explaining why they never wear any clothes, but it would definitely make them pretty dang resilient survivalists.
Musk seems to show up in a lot of myths. Many of them mention that they have a foul odor or just plan stink. While there is a racial feat option at the moment, it seems like few characters would ever take it, so incorporating it into the race would make it more universal.
I don't actually see a lot of mentions of climbing, however, they do live in forests, jungles, and mountains, for the most part, and a climb speed would allow them the vertical mobility to get up into the tress and retrieve fruits, or more easily ascend and descend mountainsides. Plus, they are somewhat based on orangutans, and those dudes are great climbers.
Healthy is mostly an attempt to give a mechanical explanation to them being immune/resistant to the diseases that wiped out human populations.
Stealthy is a valid option, certainly.
Mighty would be so cool to have, I must admit, but as superdave pointed out, it's possible that +6 may simply too high for what would roughly be a +1 race.

**zabbarot** · 2014-09-30, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Admiral Squish

Just quoting myself so it doesn't get lost on the last page.

Yes, sasquatch sightings are rare, however, I think that could be explained by their nocturnal lifestyle and their general avoidance of humans. Plus, I hate to admit it, but it occurs to me that the wild walker thing could seem a little too... supernatural.
I think dense fur mostly has a point in explaining why they never wear any clothes, but it would definitely make them pretty dang resilient survivalists.
Musk seems to show up in a lot of myths. Many of them mention that they have a foul odor or just plan stink. While there is a racial feat option at the moment, it seems like few characters would ever take it, so incorporating it into the race would make it more universal.
I don't actually see a lot of mentions of climbing, however, they do live in forests, jungles, and mountains, for the most part, and a climb speed would allow them the vertical mobility to get up into the tress and retrieve fruits, or more easily ascend and descend mountainsides. Plus, they are somewhat based on orangutans, and those dudes are great climbers.
Healthy is mostly an attempt to give a mechanical explanation to them being immune/resistant to the diseases that wiped out human populations.
Stealthy is a valid option, certainly.
Mighty would be so cool to have, I must admit, but as superdave pointed out, it's possible that +6 may simply too high for what would roughly be a +1 race.

Musk fits most of what I hear about them. Skunkape is an alternate name after all : P

Climbing might push them closer to seeming like wookies instead of just sasquatches.

Healthy isn't really necessary. I know DnD doesn't usually consider this, but they could be immune/resistant to human diseases just by virtue of not being human. Our setting has few enough non-humans that this could just be a general trait for non-human races.

Stealth is fair enough.

Wind-walk is pretty neat, personally I like this one best. Maybe add that they are difficult to track.

Mighty probably just pushes the strength bonus a bit too high. +3 to-hit is a huge bonus at level 1(lvl2 since they're +1 I guess).

**Steckie** · 2014-09-30, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)

Caribbean

Pirates
A free pirate state in the Bahamas is impossible in our 1750. The English, who own the islands, would not allow for this anymore. And the Knights would just bring a fleet and root out the problem, Blackbeard can make an impenetrable fortress, if the Knights come in full force they will whipe the floor with him. I do agree that a completely free state would be a lot cooler.

I did find something interesting that could work: an Aspidochelone.
It's a legendary creature, a huge whale or sea turtle with plants growing on it's back and things that appear to be rocks and valleys. The creature rises to the surface and stays there until people land on it's back. Once they're on it's back it sinks underwater, pulling those people with it and devouring them.
It's a legend that exists in a few forms over the world, there's even a version from the Inuit in Greenland.

So, what if Blackbeard found a way to capture an Aspidochelone? Or tame it or dominate it or whatever, the story of how he did it is the stuff of legends. He forces the creature to remain at the surface of the sea and uses it as a mobile base for his pirate raids. Over the years he attracts more and more followers and is able to build structures on top of the Aspidochelone. Maybe the creature is able to desalinate seawater so that they have a steady source of fresh water? Maybe it's even a sentient creature?
Blackbeard starts setting himself up as the Pirate King. The pirates that don't take the pardon issued by Woodes Rogers flock to his kingdom in search of a safe haven. The Aspidochelone itself isn't suited for piracy, but it's faster than a normal ship and any pirate hunter is almost unable to catch up. There's a group of ships constantly in the vicinity of the creature.
Oh, and the pirates trusted enough by Blackbeard have a magical compass that always points to the creature so they can find their way back home at any time. These pirates will give their lives to destroy that compass if it will fall into the wrong hands.
Blackbeard feeds his Aspidochelone the corpses of those he kills (historically Blackbeard didn't kill the crews of the ship he captured), but that's not enough so he's forced to make regular trips to B'alam to make sure it is fed enough.
Blackbeard is now a 70 year old king still ruling over his pirate nation. The city on top of the Aspidochelone just keeps growing and is quickly becoming a large trade port.

This gives the pirates a safe base to operate from, wich would be a good way to extend the Golden Age of Piracy. It gives us our independant pirate kingdom without having to shoehorn it into an existing colony and without it running much risk of being destroyed by the Knights.

New pirates
I would add a few children of famous pirates, just so people have some names to recognise. I would love to add the children of Anne Bonny and Mary Read, who would be around 30 in 1750. The child of Anne Bonny was fathered by famous pirate Calico Jack Rackham.
These children (boy and girl) have married and are both renowned pirate captains, both having their own ship and they are working as a team at all times. They're in the service of Blackbeard. Maybe they're very loyal to him but they are also fierce rivals of his son and heir who they consider to be a weakling?

Knight relics
Right Hand of the Forerunner looks good like that.

Icon of Our Lady of Philermos doesn't have anything to do with weaving at all but i think the Knights need some sort of unique item they use for creating the light spell on the sails and tunics. If they don't it will just get copied by other nations, just like many militaries have started using a flashbang grenade because it's very usefull.
We could use the Splinter of the True Cross for this if you want, the Knights can build it into the weaving machine. Just make sure to let me know, i may need to do some rewriting on one of the islands of the Knights.

Tuniitaq

I know it's a dificult decision, maybe we should hear from some other people first. Or we could discuss it this saturday on the Skype call.

**Mith** · 2014-09-30, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)

So Blackbeard inspires the legend of Flying Dutchman? (The actual story of forever at sea, not the fact that the crew look like Starspawn as in PotC.) It would a bit early since the first documentation about the ghost ship is 1795, and the setting is 1795, but we could steal from the story of a "ship that can never make port". As for the feeding of people to the beast, perhaps all of those who die on the island are "buried to the beast", with the idea that the service you pledge to Blackbeard means that you will serve the Pirate Kingdom in life, and in death you will keep the foundation of the Pirate Kingdom alive.

I would expect that a giant beast that would be on the scale of an island would be able to feed on the sea animals that would gather around it, since it is an island.

Idea: The city is built into the shell of the beast, which is like stone and can be carved and shaped. The end result is a city that can seal shut, allowing it to be completely submerged with it's inhabitants inside fully sealed city for let's say three days. Blackbeard hires master architects to design a city that will be a Wonder of the World. This would:

a) Be REALLY FREAKING AWESOME!!!
b) Allow the beast to be able to hunt in the Deeps for whales and Kraken.

The ships at harbor would disperse prior to the Island submerging, with either a Compass or instructions on where the Island will rise.

**Admiral Squish** · 2014-10-01, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)

I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone something. At this very moment, we are seriously discussing the possibility of creating a PIRATE KINGDOM, located ON THE BACK OF A GIANT ISLAND TURTLE, all of which is controlled by BLACKBEARD, THE MYSTIC PIRATE KING.

I love this project. Just... so much love.

Sasquatches

Musk
Looked into this one, it's actually theorized by actual sasquatch believers. Only a relatively small portion of sasquatch reports mention a scent, but those that do usually involve the sasquatch being aware of the viewers. It's theorized this is a threat-repellant technique, much like with skunks. Apparently male gorillas do something similar, so there's even a precedent.
Not quite confident in my mechanic, though. Think one hour is too long?
Technically speaking, skunk ape is its own cryptid, it's just widely believed to be related.

Climbing
You raise a good point. Don't want to make them all that similar.
Perhaps they eat more like giant sloths, hooking down branches to pluck the good stuff off 'em.

Healthy
Another good point here. I didn't want to say they were unilaterally immune to human diseases, but a blanket rule that non-humanoid creatures are immune to non-magical diseases would work pretty well.

Wild-Walk
I dunno, I like the idea, and it would be really useful, but I can't explain how they do it in my head when I start to think about it. It just seems like it would have to be supernatural. If it's a learned thing, then it would have to be a cultural trait, and why wouldn't all the humans that live in those same environments be able to do it? And I can't think of a non-magical explanation for their ability to move in ways humans can't.
I do actually have a feat that makes them harder to track, and depending on the fate of this ability, I may post it with the overculture.

Pirates
My first thought on the topic wasn't actually words, so much as a high-pitched mental squeal of glee.
My second thought was to take a step back and at least pretend at objectivity.
My third though was something like 'screw that, giant turtle-island!'

TURTLE ISLAND
Okay, did a bit of research, the idea of an enormous fish/turtle/island thing is really common. It shows up in Egyptian, Greek, Middle Eastern, Roman, Irish, Greenlandic, and Chilean mythology. The broader concept of a giant island/turtle thing shows up in a lot of other mythologies. A couple Native American myths suggest the land itself was created on the back of a giant turtle (specifically Ganonsyoni, but many northeastern woodlands tribes). The legs of a turtle support the sky in Chinese mythology.

Anyways. I gotta admit, I love the idea of having a giant turtle-island (henceforth referred to as terra-pin because turtle-island is long and has odd letter combos.) full of pirates and commanded by an old, magical Blackbeard. There are problems to address, however.
1) How does he find the terra-pin in the first place, and how does he avoid getting drowned/eaten/sunk by the terra-pin's typical method of attack?
2) How would one take control of such a titanic, ancient being, it's probably too big to even have stats! It would take preparation, you couldn't just bump into the terra-pin and make it up as you go.
3) We should also adress some traits of the terra-pin, such as, is it unique, or one of a species of moving islands out in the middle of the Atlantic somewhere? Does it need to eat humans or large animals, or can it survive off fish?

In regards to problem #1, there's actually a moment in the wikipedia record that would fit with the terra-pin, when the Revenge runs aground on a sandbar. If we replace the sandbar with the terra-pin's edges, that would make a plausible initial contact between Blackbeard and the Terra-pin, in about 1717-1718. It would also put the wreckage of a very large ship on the terra-pin, which could be converted into the first building (How awesome would that be?).

However, it doesn't answer number two. Blackbeard was a soldier, then a pirate, it's unlikely he was educated enough to hear the tales of the aspidochelone or know what to expect. I don't think we could just have him improvise some sort of ritual to take control, or it would have been done at some point before now.

The myth of the aspidochelone suggests it would lure fish to be eaten with a 'sweet smell', possibly some sort of fish-luring pheremone. I think it would probably have to get most of it's food that way, ships are nowhere near common enough for it to subsist off people. I don't think it would be able to move quickly, considering it's size and weight, so it would probably have to be a filter-feeder or an ambush predator. Maybe it's got like whiskers of stinging or trapping tendrils? Or perhaps it's symbiotic with the plants on it's back, supplementing the food it takes in with sugars produced by the photosynthesis.
Oh, and on speed: I do not think it would be able to outrun ships. It's just too big, and turtles aren't that speedy in the first place. I think it's main defense against organized attack by naval forces would be its constant movement. You might stumble across it while sailing, but you can't report its location, and the pirates would be able to move it erratically to avoid being caught, once sighted. You can't just sail your fleet around trying to find it, that would need way too much in supplies, you'd practically need to have a compass to find it, and since it's only been around for 30 years, I think it's entirely possible theymight have been able to avoid discovery and destruction.

As interesting as the idea of a hollowed-out shell is, I just don't think it's plausible. There are a couple problems. For one, the idea of pirates pledging themselves for life, and even after death, is a little implausible. Part of the deal with pirates is you could get on and off at any given port. They would need light sources in the shell, and at the time all that would be usable is fire in some form, which would suck up all the air extremely fast. And sealing would have to be both extremely strong and extremely uniform. A leak almost anywhere would spell doom for the entire shell, and in a pre-industrial revolution age, it would be all but impossible to pull off.

New Pirates
Hmm...
I could imaging this old blackbeard having a few handfuls of kids, mostly to various tag-alongs and prostitutes. I can't imagine he would be a good father, being, you know, a pirate. All in all, I imagine he would reluctantly name one of his children as an heir, the oldest son in question entirely failing to live up to his standards. It would be a pretty bitter relationship, to say the least.
I like the idea of the kid of Anne Bonny and Calico Jack Rackham being an exceptionally successful pirate. I would like the kid to be a lady because lady NPCs are always a good thing to have around. I like to think she's the one with the skills to actually take over after Blackbeard, but he's a bitter old man that sticks to traditional gender roles. He acknowledges that she's fine as a captain, but no way in hell would he let his life's work get turned over to a queen.

Knights

Hand
I'm not exactly sure on the roles of the fingers, and they could probably use a bit more explanation than that. I basically took the roles of the fingers from a palmistry intro thing.

Other Relics
I'll really have to get into the research of the stories for each one and what they were believed to be able to do. Nothing immediately springs to mind as to what sort of properties they would have.

Tuniitaq
I do agree this is definitely a topic that's gonna show up in the Skype call, but that's no reason to stop discussing it here before then.
Let's get into the pros and cons of each.

Materocracy
Pros:

This would free up a very large section of the population for service in the military.
It is a system unlike any we've seen.
The Tuniit culture is more or less a blank slate, so we can pretty much do whatever we want to with it.
The reversal of sexism is pretty interesting in my mind.

Cons:

Females lack a defined role in the everyday existence of the household, which leaves them lacking leverage on the males.
Typically, hunting and combat involve similar skills, and often the same tools, which is why most societies' hunters pull double-duty as warriors.
Having >50% of the population be uninvolved in the food-production process (all females and married human males) would require huge aquaculture/agriculture programs, enough to produce a massive food surplus.

Double Harem
Pros:

Based off an existing family unit, meaning we have some precedent.
Creates some very interesting family dynamics
Large breeding pool would lead to a faster spread of the tuniit blood.
Balanced production and consumption requires less centralization

Cons

Does not have the same interesting gender dynamics.
Does not inherently create the massive fighting forces that would be needed for a conquering civilization.
Does not address the specialization necessary to turn the various cultural acquisitions (most notably ironworking), into serious advantages.

Centralization
This kept coming up while I was pondering the options, and we really are gonna have to discuss it if we hope to get a real handle on things in the north.
How much centralization are we going to have? Are we keeping the distributed model of most arctic areas, or should they move to a more centralized model, with villages and possibly even cities? We're going to need some measure of agriculture or aquaculture to support any model that takes advantage of iron-working and has a significant specialized fighting force. Mammut-powered agriculture could work in more central/southern areas, and the fertilizer they provide would also help with the yield. But that would only be helpful after they began expansion and makes contact with mammutcha, we would need some sort of surplus to kick-start the system in the first place.

**TheWombatOfDoom** · 2014-10-01, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)

What I think might be a good way to do it is that there are monsters that prey on the terra-pin (having more than one sounds great, but maybe put them all over the world instead of just in the atlantic, since you know, they inspire myths all over the world). I'd say this monster might latch onto the back of a terra-pin (like a giant leach) or perhaps begin boring into the shell of the beast, or maybe just some sort of dire parasite. Either way, I think it should be something that can sting the terra-pin and cause it to not move, or be paralysed, while the it begins slowly killing the terra-pin. Blackbeard wrecks on the terra-pin, attempts to survive on the island, and discovers the creature attempting to kill the terra-pin. He doesn't really know that it's a giant turtle at the time. Instead, he's just thinking he's on an island and that to survive he has to kill this thing. And he and his crew manage to slay it, and the terra-pin sees Blackbeard as its rescuer. That would solve a bunch.

Also, if there's a bunch of terra-pin, the bermuda triangle could be what it is because of them...heck, the terra-pin could already have a few shipwrecks on it by the time Blackbeard arrives!

**Mith** · 2014-10-01, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)

As interesting as the idea of a hollowed-out shell is, I just don't think it's plausible. There are a couple problems. For one, the idea of pirates pledging themselves for life, and even after death, is a little implausible. Part of the deal with pirates is you could get on and off at any given port. They would need light sources in the shell, and at the time all that would be usable is fire in some form, which would suck up all the air extremely fast. And sealing would have to be both extremely strong and extremely uniform. A leak almost anywhere would spell doom for the entire shell, and in a pre-industrial revolution age, it would be all but impossible to pull off.

Fair enough. I was thinking in terms of Daedalus style of miraculous architecture. As for a light source, since we are making this creature up, they could use bio-luminous materials, since a miraculous creature such as a terra-pin will attract miraculous creatures.

As for how Blackbeard tamed the terra-pin, just have him have disappeared for a bit and then reappeared with a terra-pin. No explanation makes it a bit more awesome.

**Steckie** · 2014-10-01, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)

Blackbear's city

Turtle/Whale
Does it have to be the turtle? According to the legends it's either a turtle or a whale, and a turtle has been done before quite often. Plus a whale would really fit the area, the Caribbean lies on the migration route of a lot of whale species. There's a lot of whaling going on in the area.
Plus, a whale has a blowhole. Just think of the mayhem we can do with a high powered blowhole! Maybe machines are powered by the blowhole? Maybe a skydiver is shot upward by the waterjet and then he parachutes back down, bringing back valuable information about what's on the horizon.

Habitat
Turtle or whale, we can place the habitat of the creature in the Sargasso Sea, a large system of rotating ocean currents in the middle of the Atlantic. The area is known for it's huge amount of seaweed. The creature could live there, feeding on the giant seaweed-eating creatures that live there. The turtle/whale occasionally migrates to the coast of Europe, Africa, Vespuccia or Cabralia where they pretend to be an Island to lure humans to their death.
Blackbeard could have captured one of them on it's migration.

How did he do it?
I'm not a fan of Blackbeard helping the creature and gaining it's trust that way. It's been done a LOT in fiction and mythology. Legends like Androcles' Lion and even in movies like 10000 BC.
I'd suggest that Blackbeard found it's 'only weakness', but that's been done a lot as well.
Maybe a form of mind control or body control through some sort of Mcguffin? But that's quite dangerous, as soon as somebody breaks that mind control thousands of pirates are basically screwed.

Or maybe they destroyed the mind of the creature but were able to keep it's body alive. Now there are a few trusted underlings of Blackbeard who must take turns putting their minds in the creature so they can 'run' it. Without a mind, the body starts deteriorating. But those underlings must spend time in their own bodies as well or those bodies start deteriorating. It's a delicate balance and there are only a few people that Blackbeard trusts enough to 'run' the city. He would never do it himself because that would leave a power vacuum.
Maybe one of his underlings is plotting to permanently transfer his mind into the whale/turtle and becoming some sort of god-king? (plothook)
The only thing we need now is a way for him to destroy (or capture?) a mind. Might be more interesting if he captures the mind of the creature but is unable to destroy it. That way he will need to bind it into an item he can keep at a safe place since freeing the mind of the creature will be bad news. (plothook)

**Pokonic** · 2014-10-01, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)

Pirate Island, or how I'm one step away from making a One Piece joke:

I'd vote for the island to be on the back of a giant whale; we already have a kind of giant tortoise representing the power of earth on the mainland, and a whale would be a more 'dynamic' option, in my opinion. Presumably, it's a magical being with some amount of intelligence beyond that of the typical whale, like a sort of watery Tarrisque with a effective SR up there in the mid sixties, so Blackbeard, while probably not able to control it, might have been able to placate it through relatively mundane means and mutual cooperation. It's far from his pet, or any of the pirate's friends for that matter, but the guy might have been able to communicate with it through arcane means and have it allow humans come onto it's back in exchange from protection from whaling from the new forces in the region, which would be starting up in the Americas around this period.

It would likely be a open secret among the pirates that Blackbeard controls the creature as much as any man can control something that could be the actual leviathan with a capital L, or at least something like it, but for those not in the know it would likely be 'known' that Blackbeard, as the sorcerer he is, conjured up the beast from the depths of hell and can controls it with his black magics. The beast, being as old as it is, presumably doesn't especially care that humans are on it's back, but it would likely be at least mildly concerned about what Blackbeard said about whaling ships crewed by peoples that can go farther out to sea then those that it is used to. Hence, a alliance of sort between the pirates and the whale.

**Admiral Squish** · 2014-10-01, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)

The Terra-Pin

The Beast
Well, I think it would more or less have to have a solid shell of some degree or another, since personally, I think the idea of spearing your foundations into the hide of an enormous whale is just a little too gruesome for me. In addition, the vast majority of moving island myths focus on turtles, rather than whales, so that would be the precedent to work off of.

It struck me as odd that the original writers of the myths would be able to confuse whale, fish, and turtle somehow, being the animals are so different. Perhaps it's because there was nothing that quite fit. I propose that the being in question be a 'none of the above', something that's not just 'a giant turtle' or 'a giant whale', such an interesting concept deserves special treatment. Perhaps it's just a magical creature that combines traits from a variety of creatures into one enormous being, be it just one or two, or dozens. Perhaps it's something else entirely, like a massive crustacean of some sort. Or maybe it's not even of this world, some sort of titanic [earth] and [water] outsider bound to the mortal plane.
The possibilities are practically endless.

There are a number of traits given to the beast by different peoples of different areas. In Greenland and chile it is said to be very broad and flat, but the European myths seem to indicate a ridge or spine and valleys and crevasses. Most myths mention the creature being covered in vegetation, and some say it's got sand dunes, features that would only be able to come to exist if it were to spend great lengths of time on the surface. But a common theme seems to be the beast either surfacing or submerging, and tipping over boats or dragging them under with it. So, honestly, it seems like whatever we do is gonna mess with one version of the myth or another, which means we have a certain latitude of freedom that you just don't have when all the sources agree.

Possible ideas:

Spoiler: Terra-pin (giant turtle)

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Terra-pins (working name) are a species of enormous, ancient turtles that casually cruise across the oceans' surface. They move slowly, usually just sleeping and drifting along with ocean currents (a low-energy lifestyle), stirring from a torpor whenever they detect the presence of food, or when they sense they've been landed upon. (plants, birds, and such, they all grow slowly over time, so it doesn't wake the terra-pin.) They usually dive when the find themselves occupied, and they may or may not eat the sailors that fall in afterward, to compensate for the energy spent by suddenly awakening. They feed very irregularly, sometimes eating whales and sometimes opening their jaws to inhale massive schools of fish, krill, or plankton. Essentially animals, they are not bright creatures. Their shells have three ridges of tall points, like a snapping turtle's shell, making most of the landscape very rugged, with lots of steep slopes and valleys between them.

Spoiler: Jasconius (unique, narrow mixture)

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Jasconius is a unique being, made of a mixture of traits, all grown to immense size. The center of the creature is protected by a wide, flat turtle shell of titanic scale. A massive whale's tail combines with four broad, winglike turtle flippers to propel the creature forward. A massive fish's head emerges forward from the shell. The beast breathes with gills. This titan is an active predator, cruising along through the depths for ages at a time, gobbling up deep-sea creatures like giant squid, sharks, whales, and the like. He only surfaces briefly when there's a surface-dwelling meal to be found, like a pod of dolphins, whales, or seals, or, perhaps, ships, which the beast is believed to scuttle in order to snap up the morsels that go overboard. The massive creature is thought to be intelligent, but does not communicate.

Spoiler: Aspidochelone (broad mixture)

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Aspidochelones are an almost bizarre mixture of traits. All most who encounter one see is it's shell, a wide, gently-sloping oval island, divided down the middle by a rocky ridge of peaks. The sides are dominated by a forest of palms and flowering trees, the shores rocky. Below the surface is where one can see the island is not an island. The beast that bears it is made of dozens of different parts. It's head vaguely resembles a grouper or other wide-mouthed fish, able to open wide and suck in enormous schools of fish. This mouth is surrounded by dozens of long, narrow whiskers that float through the water, tasting it for signs of prey as they also spread a sweet-smelling fish luring secretion into the water. The beast usually just drifts with the currents, but it can propel itself with surprising speed with a set of twelve long, winglike flippers that often hang unused, but can propel the beast smoothly along the surface of the water. It's armored underbelly is covered in barnacles. They can dive, and will, especially if something large and heavy hits their shell.

Spoiler: Magna Concha (Crustacean)

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Magna Concha are hard-shelled crustaceans of immense size. They resemble horseshoe crabs, with a wide, low dome of bony shell, taking on a somewhat teardrop-shaped profile. Pockets of air within the shell keep the great beast aloft, and it's surface is covered in a layer of earth and stone, accumulated over years. Beneath the surface, the creature is normally propelled by dozens of rhythmically kicking feathered legs, which serve as both propulsion and gills, driving it slowly and smoothing across the surface. It has eight long, folded legs, the rear four ending in bony oarlike paddles, the forward four fanning into feathered nets that constantly sweep through the water and across the mighty creature's mandibles to deposit their catch. The oarlike legs can kick to propel the creature with speed, but it's a jerky, jumpy movement, which puts great stress on the structures upon its back. (maybe it's been kept on the surface by jamming its venting valves shut?) Essentially mindless.

I actually can't seem to think of any earth-water elemental or otherworldly spirit that's weird or unique enough. I keep mentally fixating on the tojanida.

The Taming
Actually... the idea of a monster or parasite has potential. But not quite in that way.

What if Blackbeard encounters one that's horribly ill. Under attack by parasites, infested with them. It's nearly dead, and Blackbeard manages to destroy the infection. But not to save the being, rather, he takes advantage of the extremely weakened state to take control of it. Possibly magically, possibly it's just brain-damaged and overly suggestible, possibly he actually installs some sort of mechanical device that cause intense pain until the creature obeys.

I do like the idea of soul-jar-ing the monster, putting different pirates into the beast's brain to make it move along his instructions. Maybe they pirates can only be in the beast's mind for a certain length of time, not because the body deteriorates, but because it's mind is on such a different scale and in such a different... arrangement... than their own. If they remain in it too long, the brain will actually reshape their mind to fit it, rendering them mad and losing their identity to the great beast.

A mundane alliance has certain potential as well, depending on the being we want to use. I'm not sure if blackbeard would be willing to settle for the creature's word that it won't simply dive at some point and ruin thirty years of work by instantly destroying his entire kingdom. I mean, that kind of leverage would ruin almost any normal alliance given a long enough time, there's simply no way to balance it.

**Pokonic** · 2014-10-02, 12:40 AM (ISO 8601)

Regardless of the creature's actual mental capabilities (I'd argue for a Jasconius, really) , I would argue against full-out mental domination of the creature in question; presumably, even if Blackbeard is capable of keeping a entity like that mentally controlled, he's likely the only spell caster among the pirates powerful enough to keep it under whatever mental compulsion it is under. Unique creatures in this setting, from a pure numbers game, tend to be in the twenties or so when it comes to CR, and something so big and old shouldn't be easily controlled by any human, regardless of personal power. When Blackbeard kicks the bucket, when, not if, really, given that he would be pretty old around this time even when he's as powerful as he would be, it would only take a matter of time before the enchantment wears off and the beast decides to take a dive.

Blackbeard's probably looking for a legacy, though, given that he's actually survived his glory days with his riches and reputation, and a permanent living island base is a pretty unique one, all things considered. In a different time, wiping the thing's mind and helming it vi mind control could have been on the table, but unless there's a pirate sorcerer academy somewhere there would probably be only a few who could recreate that trick when the good governor passes.

I would also argue for having the thing be convinced to be a host for people on it's body due to the descriptions of whaling ships because it taps into a theater of the setting that hasn't been tapped all that much: the ocean. Magical things in Europe, in general, got a really rough deal handed to them by humanity during the literal witch-hunts, and there's been some amount of talk regarding backlash against magic in the eastern nations as well, including Japan to a extent. The topic of the oceans was brought up when it came to magical travel, but after some talk about possible underwater civilizations the subject got dropped, reasonably, due to the lack of context that a bunch of mermaids would have in the greater scheme of things when the main subject of the setting is the mainland. There's probably sea serpents and krakens wandering around the coasts, but besides the big popular threats to shipping there's only so much to say about the oceans in the setting, besides it being a resource.

However, now that we're talking pirates and are actually just a few steps away from suggesting a possible plot hook in the form of the origin of the Flying Dutchman (which would fit the time scale completely), I would think it would be appropriate to deal with the general idea of a sentient legendary sea creature concerned for it's safety in a age where man can actually challenge it's ability to survive, which would fit one of the themes of the setting, where the 'new' world is a relative bastion of magical creatures that were forced to adapt to mankind's advancement on their turf.

**Steckie** · 2014-10-02, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Pokonic

I would also argue for having the thing be convinced to be a host for people on it's body due to the descriptions of whaling ships in general because it taps into a theater of the setting that hasn't been tapped all that much: the ocean in general. Magical things in Europe, in general, got a really rough deal handed to them by humanity during the literal witch-hunts, and there's been some amount of talk regarding backlash against magic in the eastern nations as well, including Japan to a extent. The topic of the oceans was brought up when it came to magical travel, but after some talk about possible underwater civilizations the subject got dropped, reasonably, due to the lack of context that a bunch of mermaids would have in the greater scheme of things when the main subject of the setting is the mainland. There's probably sea serpents and krakens wandering around the coasts, but besides the big popular threats to shipping there's only so much to say about the oceans in the setting, besides it being a resource.

Hmm, that brings something to mind.
I've read that Blackbeard had notes in his ship logs warning about mermaids and he and his crew apparently sighted them on several occasions.
And i agree with you that we should put some focus into the seas.

So let's put all that together and go crazy with it:
Blackbeard and the Queen Anne's Revenge run aground on a strange island, an island that shouldn't be there. The Revenge is badly damaged, Blackbeard and his crew set out to find supplies and a source of fresh water. That's when the island starts moving, it travels for a few miles and then stops again. It continuously tries to move, but every time it seems to stop after a short distance.
Blackbeard leads a party to investigate, they follow the ridge that runs across the island until he comes across something that resembles a head.
That's where they find the mermaids. Blackbeard immediatly orders an attack, but his party is easily dominated. Only he is able to resist (Sorcerer? Voudou? Priest of a Sea Religion?)The mermaids are interested in why he's able to resist and order his own men to capture him so they can question him. He doesn't say anything and resists any other attempt at mind control or seduction. Eventually their leader resort to just talking to him, they explain they're a group of mermaids that survived the killing of magical creatures and that has been in constant hiding of the Inquisition. A few months ago they were forced out of their hiding place.
With no other place left to go they decided to go to the New World. In order to get there they attempt to Dominate a Jasconius. It went well for a few weeks but now the creature is constantly fighting off their control. And because he is able to fight their control as well they would like to study him so they can keep on dominating the creature. Either he agrees to this or he dies and they will make it work without him.

Blackbeard makes a counteroffer: he uses his magic to escape the hold of his dominated men, takes the mermaid's leader hostage and starts some aggressive negotiations for his freedom. But the situation is still a stalemate, he can't leave the island because his ship is damaged and they can't let him go because they need him. In the end he makes a deal: an alliance between them where Blackbeard allows them access to his mind for one time to help them get control over the creature and in return they help him repair his ship and let him use it for one pirate raid of his choosing.
The mermaids enter his mind and pull from it the key to either permanently control the mind of the Jasconius or to permanently destroy the mind and put somebody of their choosing temporarily at the helm (i prefer the second option).

Now Blackbeard is a cunning pirate and when he asks the mermaids for the favor they promised him he already knows the target of the raid he's going to take the Jasconius on: the headquarters of the Inquisition on Cuba. The headquarters might have some treasure, but more importantly it most likely holds a few inquisitors that killed mermaids. The raid is not a way of getting rich, but a way to suck up to the mermaids and gain their trust.
They sweep in with the Jasconius blocking the harbor, Blackbeard's crew doing a surprise attack from land and the mermaids swimming up the river or coast or whatever.
They take the place by surprise, loot it and burn it down. The inquisitors are burned at the stake, mermaids like irony.
This solidifies the alliance between Blackbeard and the mermaids and in a night of Blood, Fire and Rum a new nation is born.

A pirate kingdom, ruled over by Blackbeard and populated by human pirates and mermaids. There is a city on top of the Jasconius and a mirror city on the underside. The mermaids don't do pirate raids and Blackbeard doesn't allow the Jasconius to be used in raids anymore because it is now the home of thousands of people. The mermaids will protect the Jasconius in the event of an attack obviously and if the price is high enough they will hire themselves out to go on a raid.

How does that sound?

Tuniitaq

Quoted you and put my comments in orange.

Originally Posted by Admiral Squish

Materocracy

Cons:

Females lack a defined role in the everyday existence of the household, which leaves them lacking leverage on the males. In the Household maybe, but outside of the Household they arrange everything. They're the politicianc, priestesess, judges and arcanists. They're the rune-readers, the administrators, the diplomats and many other things. They're basically the thing that keeps the whole Tuniit civilisation going. The men just provide food and warriors, but that doesn't mean the women can't fight.
Typically, hunting and combat involve similar skills, and often the same tools, which is why most societies' hunters pull double-duty as warriors. Tuniit males are used as auxilliary forces, human females do most of the fighting but most of their armies have a few Tuniit men because they're pretty good at what they do.
Having >50% of the population be uninvolved in the food-production process (all females and married human males) would require huge aquaculture/agriculture programs, enough to produce a massive food surplus. This is basically what happens in EVERY civilisation once knowledge starts growing. Farmers grow food, food gets sent to the cities, cities are centers of production, knowledge and politics. Cities become more and more important and the perentage of the population that is needed to do farming gets lower.

Other than that i think that the materocracy would just be really interesting to play in. I don't think there's anything similar appearing in another campaign setting. Maybe in some obscure minor nation, but not in something the size of Canada.

**Admiral Squish** · 2014-10-04, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)

Announcement
Well, I feel I should probably tell you guys this, I'm planning to take part in NaNoWriMo this year, which means I'm going to be spending the vast majority of my time writing during November. Things will slow down, but I'll try to poke my head into the thread from time to time and weigh in.

Skype
So we had a long, and very interesting, chat on a number of topics!

Living Island
This discussion ate up something like 45 minutes of the chat, most of which was going back and forth about the identity of the being in question.

Mermaids
We decided we could have mermaids involved in the taming process, but a mermaid city was a bit too much. We don't want to have mermaid cities or civilizations, but we certainly could have a solitary coven or tribe that performed the ritual to control the beast.
The mechanism of control, be it making people possess it, telling the mermaids to direct the beast in one direction or another, or something else, is still under debate.
Oh, and I'm considering manatee-folk.

The Beast
Well, we discussed the options listed. It seems the turtle is relatively unpopular, as we already have an earth turtle mentioned, and it would be a little bit similar. We talked about whales, fish, crustaceans, crocodiles, sharks, rays, and other creatures. The idea of a shell or hard structure of some sort is important, so there would be something to brace buildings on, and sinking support poles into soft skin is a little gruesome. However, we came up with the idea of a coral layer on the back, which allows us to remedy a lack of solid structures on some options. We also decided that the very smallest we could go with the beast is pretty much kaiju-sized, up to small to mid-sized island. However, no matter how we came at the question, we came to no final consensus, which leads up to our next topic:

THE POLL
Since there's so many options, and all of them are so interesting and usable, I'm going to leave the decision of what we want to make the island out of to the people!
Here's how this works: Over the next week, people can propose options in one of three categories. Next Saturday, I'll gather up all the options proposed between now and then, and then the following week we vote, going with the most popular option in each category.

Beast: The physical description of the creature. You can just say 'giant [animal]', or you can create a unique being with unusual traits. It can be any sort of being you can imagine, be it animal, aberration, magical beast, outsider, or any sort of being.
Mind: How intelligent the creature should be. Should it be mindless, animalistic, dumb, sentient, or super-intelligent? Or something else?
Control: The control mechanism. Do people put themselves in the monster's body? Is there a steering wheel, or something mechanical attached to reins? Is it magically steered, or maybe they have to talk to the mermaids to direct it?

Blackbeard
We discussed Blackbeard himself briefly. There was some debate if we we wanted to have him be actually as evil as he was rumored to be. I personally like to think of him as a warlock with a particular talent for intimidation and rumor-mongering, who cultivates an image as a bloodthirsty monster that sold his soul for power. The alternative is an actual hell-bound entity, one who truly soul his soul for power. It's been suggested he might actually be immortal, or perhaps he's an evil-touched.

Tuniitaq
Also debated this one for a while. It's a tricky region, but I certainly think we have some real potential for awesome here.

Social Structure
The social structure of the north is a strict caste system of two levels and a bunch of steps in between. Basic humans in the Tuniit empire are essentially communally owned slaves, expected to obey any Tuniit they encounter, but each is usually managed by a single female. The Tuniit are above the humans as social superiors, usually united in arranged marriages. They use humans as laborers for farming, mining, and various other tasks. Male tuniit do heavy labor, hunting, and skilled labor (such as crafting). Females manage the humans and operate the household, and are the only ones allowed to serve in leadership positions. Tuniit couples can choose humans to marry into their household, as a sort of 'double harem', to help spread the tuniit bloodline. These humans are a step up from regular humans, they can only be ordered around by their tuniit partners, and are basically citizens.

Humans don't really have a lot of options on how to move up in the world. Other than being chosen to marry into a tuniit family, there is one way to get a better life for your child, and possibly even your family, and that is to give your child to military service, somewhere between the ages of 5 and 10 (it's possible only females are eligible for military service). The child will be provided for, educated, and trained to serve in battle. As long as they serve, their family gets extra food. If they serve well and get promoted, their family gets more. More food, more privelages, more respect. They still serve, but they have greater and greater freedom. Some of the highest-ranking humans in the military outrank the average tuniit in everyday life. Tuniit can also join the military as 'officers' of sorts.

Oh, and the same way one family member's rewards are shared by the family, so are their punishments. If one causes a cave-in at a mine, then their family's rations will be reduced until they've 'paid it off'.

Timeline
The timeline of tuniit is mostly the same, but with a very different tone. The inuit move in, and they get swatted down by the tuniit and enslaved. They take the bow and arrow and start hunting inland a bit more, giving them more food. The greenland tuniit absorb the norse humans when the colonies collapse and get better ship-making and ironworking, and maybe some basics of agriculture. This gives them the edge to expand further and take over more human groups, rolling them into the empire. Once they get to mammutaq (like 100-200 years ago) they get mammut, which are helpful in combat, but their main advantage is in agriculture. They can plow and fertilize, and replace a sizable chunk of the human labor needed, increasing agricultural surplus and freeing up more people for military service, which really accelerates their expansion.

**Mith** · 2014-10-04, 09:39 PM (ISO 8601)

I will admit, the brutal slavery seem weird to me, partially because to the best of my knowledge it didn't exist as a concept until the Europeans came.

SO are the Tunit very focused on roles in society, and how people should treat those around them based on their rank? If so, I would think that it may be interesting to have a code of conduct that works both ways, so that although all humans have to give deference to a Tunit, there are limits to what the Tunit can demand of the human involved. This way, although humans are still Commoners to the Tunit nobility, humans are not so oppressed.

Or we can go the other way, and just have an underground movement of humans wanting to be free of the yoke through any means necessary. Either way works. I just am not a big fan of harsh caste system, but that is really my own beliefs rather than what is in the setting.

**Steckie** · 2014-10-05, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)

I think it isn't so much brutal slavery as it is a bonded or debt slavery system. All humans are born as property of the Tuniit state. They work for the state and the state provides their basic needs like food, housing, clothing,... This isn't european styled slavery, these humans have basic rights and are more like the lower class citizens of other nations. For example we could say that legally they can only be forced to work for half the day, the other half they can use as they see fit. Humans that have a debt to the state (in Squish's example the ones that caused a cave-in) will work for an extra hour each day. The humans have a right for 3 meals per day, the ones with a debt to the state only have the right to 2 meals per day.
We could go even further and say that the humans have the right to complain against their Tuniit supervisors in court if they feel their rights are bing violated. Corporal punishment can only be given out by courts, not by individual Tuniit. A Tuniit that kills a human without a just cause, with proof for this, is considered a murderer. Humans have the right to own items and trade among themselves, taking an item owned by a human is theft, even for a Tuniit. There might even be some sort of Healthcare system where humans are allowed to remain at home if they're ill or injured.

If a Tuniit couple decides to add a human to their marriage, that human gets transferred from state property to private property. As private property they would have more rights and privileges. Maybe they get a day off on religious holidays. Or they're allowed to own their own money. If the Tuniit they're married to die before they do, they keep these rights until their death as a reward (unless they misbehave badly obviously).
A human has the right to decline the marriage proposal of a Tuniit family, although this doesn't happen very often. If they're already married to another human, they have the right to ask if their partner is married into the Tuniit family as well and most of the time the Tuniit allow this. In fact, breaking up a human family without one of them agreeing to it is forbidden.

A child given to the Tuniit for military service will get these rights as soon as their training completes. After that they can keep rising in military ranks, and after obtaining a certain rank they are considered equal to normal Tuniit citizens. If they rise even further they will outrank lower class Tuniit. Technically they're still owned by the state and if they screw up badly they will lose their privileges, but this doesn't happen very often because most of them are highly trained and very skilled people.

All in all i think that in this system the humans are not really oppressed. They have a lot of basic rights, i think they might even have more rights than some European commoners. There may be an underground movement striving for freedom, although i don't know how successfull they would be.

There was one other thing about the Tuniit: Are there Tuniit living in the Vinlandr or Mammutcha society? And how are these societies organised into the greater whole of Tuniitaq?
Personally i'd like them to be either protectorates or vassal states of the Tuniit with a very limited Tuniit population in the nations. The Tuniit probably don't have the population yet to breed themselves into those areas.
Oh, and looking at the map i can't help but wonder what the whole subarctic region is all about? And i'm wondering about the Inuit as well, are they part of the Tuniit state?

**Admiral Squish** · 2014-10-09, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)

FINALLY, after many weeks of labor and writing, I hereby present:

THE TOUCHED
Seriously, they took FOREVER. Go check 'em out! Read! Comment! Review! Enjoy!

I'm just glad to finally have them off my computer and out there in the world. I'll be back to post a big detailed post later, I got food getting cold.

**Admiral Squish** · 2014-10-10, 10:51 PM (ISO 8601)

Sorry it's taken me so long to get into this, I've been trying to get a lot of projects done all at once, to get as much as possible done before November.

Tuniit
Slavery
Pretty much exactly, Steckie.
The humans aren't quite property, they're citizens, just of a lower class, and expected to serve the empire to compensate for the care they receive. They are guaranteed certain rights as part of the empire, and all their basic needs are provided for. They work much like slaves, but they do have legal protections and some rights. It's hard to describe because we simply don't have words that describe the cultural arrangement envisioned here.
Overall, I think the system does arise from a positive, if misguided, drive. Basically, the original intent was to provide for and protect these little weak 'humans' and spread the ancient bloodline as fast as possible. In their minds, the system was established to gradually convert the humans, to integrate the power of the ancient blood and make them better able to survive on their own. They simply wouldn't consider the humans properly equipped to deal with the environment without the cold resistance. Over time it's become this whole deeply-ingrained system of government with castes and such.

Family
I don't think property's the right way to put it here. The relationship I'm picturing is a bit more pleasant for everyone involved. Basically, it's like polyamory, but with a 'primary' tuniit couple at the center of the arrangement. Two tuniit are arranged to marry at a young age. Once married, they can agree to marry humans into the relationship. These humans gain rights similar to a tuniit, though they would have to be able to prove their relationship to use them. The humans would be chosen on a somewhat more romantic basis than the tuniit spouse, though they would have to be useful to the household to be approved. The human spouses are all equal, and they would all have the rights of a spouse, though the tuniit spouse would be the 'official' spouse.

Vinland/Mammutaq
I don't know... I think we would definitely have to have Vinland be relatively firmly under tuniit control, in order to justify them having written language and iron-working, or at least strongly tied to the tuniit empire somehow. Overall, I don't think that a vassal state arrangement would fit with the general goals of the tuniit empire. They would need to keep spreading the ancient blood as much as possible, which would also need them to keep adding more humans to the system. The system would require a sizable human labor force to operate properly, and the policies and culture would encourage the tuniit to out-breed the humans, slowly decreasing the ratio of humans to tuniit.

Looking at some maps about the Dorset culture, it seems as though they would be the ones occupying Greenland when the Norse showed up in our timeline. The question now becomes whether they would have been giantkin as well or just part of the same cultural tradition.
It's possible the two groups shared a common cultural direction and diverged at around 1200, with the vinlandrs taking cultural influence from the norse and the tuniit taking cultural influence from the inuit. Perhaps these two cultures were rivals for a time? Then we could have either the tuniit overtake the vinlandrs and bring them into their empire, or the two could fuse together, recognizing their shared ancestry and blending their strengths to become this northern superpower we know today. It could be a scottish/english sort of relationship, with the vinlandrs officially under their control but largely self-governing, and generally displeased with being under the tuniit authority.

Magic
Here's some random thoughts I was having while pondering the priest, chosen one, and warlock classes.

Spells
Well, it's no secret I'm not fond of vancian spellcasting. It just always seems really strange to me. Like, how can you run out of 4th level spells but still have 5th level spells? It seems like you should lose the ability to work your powerful, draining spells before you lose your lower-level ones. However, I am extremely reluctant to change it, mostly because it's a very complicated problem, and partially because it seems like we've more or less changed everything else at this point, changing magic would mean we might as well just make a whole new system. Still, I am going to have to mess with some stuff if I want to make spell versions work... And it's not unreasonable to expect magic would have changed since the medieval time-frame of most D&D.

Saying that, if I were to mess around with spellcasting, here's some of the things I'd do.
I would probably start by swapping out the spells/day at each level for a magic points pool, much like psionic power points. Maybe smooth out the transition a bit by just saying you use the old spells, and it requires MP=spell level to cast a spell.
Instead of memorizing a single use of a spell and then forgetting it at the end of the day, you would have access to all spells from a spell book or prayer book, but you would only be able to memorize, or ready, or whatever term you want to use, a number of spells each day equal to your caster level. You could just cast those spells, much like a psion manifests powers known, but you could also cast spells from the spell/prayer book directly, though maybe the casting action would be longer?

Were I to make such changes I would have to mess with wizard too, but I must admit, the base wizard could probably use some class abilities of some sort. Maybe some class features based on your school specialization, similar to the plans regarding dogmas.

Spell-like abilities/invocations
I have also had some thoughts on spell like abilities and invocations. Again, it's no secret that I'm not fond of the traditional spell like ability setup. I mean, nobody like spell like abilities that can only be used once a day or three times a day or whatever. I feel that inherent magic should be an inherent part of the creature, that such abilities should be at will, though some more powerful ones may have cool-down periods or inflict some sort of penalty/condition upon the caster. And also, why would a creature's natural, untrained, and unlearned magical abilities look and act exactly like spells, which are supposed to be memetic? Again, implementing such changes would require a massive amount of work and would likely dramatically alter the way the system itself functions, it's unlikely that I will implement such modifications, I'm simply musing on the topic.

Anyways, the thought was that perhaps spell-like abilities should be written up as powers, similar to warlock invocations, with a handful of grades rather than nine levels. These abilities would be used to replace spell-like abilities on monsters, and would mostly be either passive effects or at-will abilities, possibly with cool-downs or action investments for more powerful abilities.
Perhaps, since both warlock and chosen one focus heavily on the idea of supernatural powers that are manifested by natural talent rather than training or outside sources, they would use these powers in place of invocations or whatever we're gonna call 'em. They would each have power lists of their own, drawn from this larger list of mystic powers.

**Mith** · 2014-10-11, 01:16 AM (ISO 8601)

Saying that, if I were to mess around with spellcasting, here's some of the things I'd do.
I would probably start by swapping out the spells/day at each level for a magic points pool, much like psionic power points. Maybe smooth out the transition a bit by just saying you use the old spells, and it requires MP=spell level to cast a spell.
Instead of memorizing a single use of a spell and then forgetting it at the end of the day, you would have access to all spells from a spell book or prayer book, but you would only be able to memorize, or ready, or whatever term you want to use, a number of spells each day equal to your caster level. You could just cast those spells, much like a psion manifests powers known, but you could also cast spells from the spell/prayer book directly, though maybe the casting action would be longer?

For clarification, you still prepare your spell/day, but you also have a resource management in terms of your mana pool (Magic Points)?

**Pokonic** · 2014-10-11, 01:29 AM (ISO 8601)

I would actually like it if the Vinlander's remained independent from the Tuniit; they both occupy geographic, cultural and thematic niches that make them stand out. Given the Tuniit's MO, they would presumably prefer to target smaller, less militaristic peoples first, given that, in five or ten years time, those same people's would be hosts to new bouncing baby giant-kin. While none of the northern tribes are especially unfamiliar with war, the Vinlanders are not only rather good at it but they are also markedly different than most of the other tribes. To the Tuniit, the Vinlander's would likely be the most profitable and dangerous conquest that they could attempt, and as such are focusing on assimilating smaller tribes of humans and bumping their numbers up. The Vinlanders likely see the Tuniit, accordingly, as some of the more dangerous foes they could face, and some of the more spiritual among them might even make correlations between them and the arctic giants of ancestral myth, the one's supposed to battle with the good spirits of the world and such.

Basically, to reiterate something I said before, Vikings vs. Giants never gets old.

**Steckie** · 2014-10-13, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)

Tuniitaq

Society
Come to think of it, the way we're describing Tuniitaq it is starting to resemble the current political situation in Cuba.
The humans are kinda oppressed, but the state takes care of them and educates them. They probably have some sort of free Healthcare system. Travel is limited, but there is religious freedom as long as the humans still pay their respects to the Tuniit Ancestor.

Ancestor
We need a name for this ancestor of the Tuniit. And are we talking about a Tuniit here or something different that mated with a human and produced the first Tuniit?

Vinland/ Mammutaq
They can both be firmly under Tuniit control without any Tuniit actually within the nations.
If they're vassal states that got subjugated somewhere in the earlier centuries, there's enough time for the Tuniit to adopt writing, metallurgy and use of the Mastodons. Probably through some form of yearly tribute. Actually breeding into that area might stretch out Tuniit resources too far. They're not all powerfull, they need time to assimilate the people they've conquered.
This also destabilises the north a bit, making sure the Tuniit don't just march south. They need to make sure that Vinland and Mammutaq are quiet and not on the edge of revolt before they attempt anything. If they wage a war in the south and one of those vassal states starts making trouble, that could lead to a disastrous war.

Basically, they're not strong enough to fully conquer them but they're strong enough to dominate them.

**Steckie** · 2014-10-14, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)

Sorry for the doublepost, but i just had a thought for Vinland and Mammutcha.

Tuniit

Vinland/Mammutaq

In the Skype call we briefly discussed the possibility of having fire Giants roam Iceland while the Danish are expanding their colony with the valuable Link that connects them to both Greenland and Europe.
So, what if the Vinlandrs have some fire giant blood in somewhere in their lineage? Not enough to have traits of those fire Giants, but enough to make for some very weird effects when it combines with the blood of the Tuniit. Children descendant of both Tuniit and Fire Giants grow up relatively normal until they reach adolescence. That's when they start growing. Then they start showing traits of both species of Giants, but because of the conflicting nature of those traits their bodies start doing weird things. Perhaps even mutating. Eventually they either go crazy and start a murderous rampage or they flee into the wilds where they become more dangerous than the ones that went crazy.
This is why the Tuniit don't spread their blood into Vinland, they're too afraid of what might happen to their offspring. They subjugated the Vinlandrs and took their knowledge of metal and writing, but they will never integrate the nation into their state. The Vinlandrs on their part are proud of their ancestry and use it as a symbol for their independance. They are still under the Tuniit's boot, but they're quick to revolt when they see a reason. The Tuniit need to use a combination of threats and bribery to keep them subjugated.

The Mammutcha have a roughly similar story, but they're obviously not descendants of fire Giants.
Instead there's a very strong lycanthrope bloodline that runs through them. There are very few afflicted lycanthropes, but a lot of natural ones. For some reason this also conflicts with the Tuniit blood and creates even weirder offspring than that of the Tuniit - Fire Giant combination.
More importantly, this means we can create a weremammoth for the setting. How awesome would that be?

With Vinland blocking eastward expansion and Mammutaq blocking most of the path of westward expansion the Tuniit must either go south or stop conquering. At the moment they are consolidating what they already own, but there are a lot of Tuniit that want to conquer the Haudenosaunee or capture the French or English holdings or even start pushing back Cahokia.

Subarctic

Looking at the map i noticed there's a huge area that just says 'Subarctic'.
Do we have something for this area because i can't really find anything.

Caribbean

Still working on the area. There are some things for wich i'd like a bit of input.

First of all, i've got a map to give you guys an idea of what the area will look like.
Red is Britain. Yellow is Spain. Blue is France. Green is Knights.

My questions about the map:
- Is it a good size?
- Is there enough landmass pictured or would you guys like more of Mainland Vespuccia?
- There are several islands not pictured on the map that are part of the list of interesting places i'm making. Most of these are too small to appear on most maps. Is this a problem? (Most of these islands are in Knights territory)
- The islands off the coast of Mesoamerica, should i consider them part of the Caribbean and list them there or as a part of the Mainland colonies? I suspect those islands are going to more important in the setting than they were historically.

Other questions:
- We previously decided on a free state of converted natives on the Island of Tobago. Is this free state still needed now that we have the Pirate state of Blackbeard? To me they seem a bit redundant now. They basically fill the same purpose as Blackbeard's Island.
We could just give Tobago to their historical owners and leave it at that. The converted natives then go live with the Knights and the non-converted natives will probably flock to Blackbeard.
- Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao. Historically they were part of the Netherlands, but we've removed the Netherlands from the Caribbean so they can keep their colony in Nieuw Amsterdam. Who should own these islands?

Edit: Oh, and the map is not finished yet, so please don't copy it to a place where other people can see it. Still need to color some islands and add names and stuff like that.

**Mith** · 2014-10-14, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)

I think the idea of the Vinlandrs and Mamutaq would work. If there is seen as conflict between the Fire Giant descendants of Vinland, perhaps they can call themselves the "loyal children" since Loki was a half-blooded giant that broke faith with the gods, the Vinlandrs keep faith. They can see the madness of the breeding with the tinuiit as a reason not to associate with them, but even the old stories had some giants work along side the gods at times. So Tuniitaq see the Vinlandrs as an unruly subject, and the Vinlandrs see the Tuniitaq as sort of a sometimes ally sometimes enemy.

So we can still have Vikingrs versus Giants.

As for the Tuniit ancestor, how about Ymir? They think of Ymir as being female, while the Vinlandrs see Ymir as agendered or male.

EDIT: This might bring some interesting points to use with the Vinlandrs (and Tunittaq, if we use my idea)

**Mith** · 2014-10-14, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)

Sorry for the double post, but I came across this for the runes used by the Germanic people. Do we want to change the names of the runes for the rune caster?

**Admiral Squish** · 2014-10-16, 11:27 PM (ISO 8601)

The North
This is becoming a complicated topic. Which is AWESOME.

Vinland

Cultural Split
Hmm. The main concern is that the regions were inhabited by the same culture group when the changes happened, so why would they split? But perhaps we could put a diversion point earlier in history.
Like, in year 750 or so, the ancestor giants begin making contact and interbreeding with the mainland Dorset culture. In year ~1000, the vikings land in Greenland, and co-habit for a couple dozen years. By the time the colony collapses and the Inuit make contact with the Tuniit, the two groups have already diverged, making for a cleaner break.

War!
Perhaps the contact needed to transmit the concepts of metalworking and writing doesn't have to be peaceful or even friendly. Perhaps the two groups fought for many years, the Tuniit trying to absorb them into their caste system, the Vinlandr taking over more and more of the ocean-front property as they expanded. The Tuniit could have gained the knowledge via captives, or just figured it out by examining Vinlandr camps or settlements they raided. Perhaps this conflict could even explain why the two groups haven't completely dominated the north (yet), the war being a huge drain on resources on both sides, and it would also help explain the military focus of both groups. It could be that in the past few hundred years, they made some sort of treaty that set their borders, allowing the two to avoid conflict and focus on expansion, rolling over the groups of the area.

Fire Giants
Hmm... there's some potential here. I don't think we should just say they have some vague, invisible giant blood involved. If memory serves, the Vinland settlers were gathered from the colony on Iceland, so there is a distinct possibility that a few fire giant-kin might have been among the first settlers. I don't think we want to have giant-kin be as prevalent in Vinland as they are in Tuniitaq, but I do think they should appear in the region.

Not overly fond of the idea of arctic and fire giant-kin blood creating unstable monsters, though... Perhaps a clan of fire giant-kin man the forges of Jarnholt.

Norse Myth
Again, I have to say, as cool and interesting as Norse mythology is, by the time the Greenland colonies were established, the Vikings had been solidly converted over to christianity.

Tuniitaq

Caste System
Basically, we've got two castes, with a lot of middle ground and a reasonable amount of upward mobility.
Humans are the lower class, but they're a cared-for lower class. The state provides food, clothing, shelter, and a reasonable amount of freedom, and in exchange they form the main work force, operating and building much of the infrastructure of the state, from agriculture, mining, and construction, to military service. Particularly skillful or talented humans, particularly those in military service, rise in status and responsibility, and earn rewards for themselves and the rest of their family. Those given to military service are rigorously trained and given some measure of education.
The upper class is the tuniit, who manage the humans, and perform skilled or heavy labor. They would have education available for their children, probably learning as an apprentice to some other tuniit, be it a trade skill, magic, or apprenticing to a scholar of some sort. Tuniit children could also be given to the state for military service, but they would be in an officer program rather than as grunts. Some might come to fight on the front lines, but they would be deployed more like specialist units, rather than in squadrons and battalions.

I think, since things are so much more centralized in this version, the tuniit caste would also be supplied with food and clothing by the state, but it's possible that they just trade like most cultures.

Ancestor
I had thought that it wouldn't be 'ancestor' it would be more 'ancestors' since there wasn't any one inupasugjuk that started everything, but then I thought about it from a mythological perspective, and it does seem more likely that the tuniit would blend the distant memory of the giant ancestors into a single entity. Though I did have a vague idea of super-clans, distantly-related families that are all descended (or claim to be) from a single specific giant ancestor...

I do think a single Ancestor would be the best bet overall. The name's tricky, though, since the tuniit language would likely be very different from the inuit ones, considering it's actually commented upon in some versions of the myth. It's said they spoke a 'very simple language' and that it was 'like baby talk'. However, considering how staggeringly complex many inuit words are, it's possible it was just a language that wasn't agglutinative.
Anyways, we can just use Ancestor capitalized for the moment. I think we'd want the Ancestor to be a full giant, perhaps even with myths that the Ancestor will someday return.

Mammutaq

Weremammut
...I have to admit, that sounds seriously awesome. But I don't know if it will work, and I'm not sure we really want to make it so all the different nations of the north are touched byinhuman blood.
For one, other than Kushtaka, which are otters, I can't find very much about a spreading, curse-based lycanthrope-esque effect in the new world. There are a few stories of spellcasters that can do it with magic and training, but I don't think it's the same sort of deal. Secondly, werewolves and loup-garou were supposed to be an invasive disease effect of sorts, to sort of give a more flavorful look at the whole disease naivete deal. Also, to be technical, lycanthropy is typically spread via bite, and I don't think mammut teeth can break skin without crushing bone.

Dali Mammut
However, you have given me an interesting idea. In the mammutcha culture writeup, I mention a pseudo-historical mammut beast touched woman, the first one who developed the plan to domesticate the mammoths rather than live in conflict with them. I propose a sort of Dali Lama arrangement. Every generation, a single mammut-touched and their mammut companion are chosen as religious leaders. The touched communicates the will of Mammut, the almost deity-powered Named Beast of the mammut, and their mammut companion becomes a living vessel for Mammut's power in times of great need.

Subarctic
Subarctic over-culture will include the Cree, the Dene, and the Mammutchadinne. I don't think we've done anything specific with them, but they are definitely gonna interact with the other cultures of the region strongly. They'll get tangled up in the Russian region, many of them are gonna be clashing with the Mammutcha and the Tuniit as they expand. Some will interact with Fusang as they come over the mountains.

In the first version, they were just gonna be part of the Tuniit confederacy deal, but this new version definitely requires us to reexamine their place in the world.

________________________
The World
I think, as we get into the details of the world more and more, and explore the widely varied cultures of the new world, we begin to get a more... fragmented vision. I think we may soon have to move away from the initial vision of five 'empires', with a few scattered independent groups between them, to a much more complex map of many different nations and cultures spread widely across the new world. It's not as neat as it was going to be, certainly, and it's a big change, but I think the setting would be better for it in the long run.

Magic
Sorta. You would be able to use your whole spell-book, but you'd select a number of them that you could cast faster and without needing a physical reference.

Like, say you have a sudden need for hold portal. You know the spell, but you didn't ready it that day. You would have to get out your spell-book or spell-tokens or dream-catchers and find the spell, then cast it using that as a reference, a much slower process than if you'd readied it.

Runecaster
I was thinking about this recently. I think we might have to hold the runecaster class back from printing in the book at first, at least until we do an expansion book on the north. My main concern is that the class' mechanics are unique, and its influence is relatively limited to the north. I'm just not sure we can afford to use all the pages necessary to detail the spells for something that's relatively limited in scope.

Caribbean
Map
Very cool map! I think the size is fine. I do think the scope could be expanded a bit, enough to show the coastline of the gulf. It would make it easier to see how these islands relate to the nations on the shorelines, and make plans about sea travel routes. I think the near-mesoamerican islands would probably have some larger influence, definitely, and would probably count as part of the caribbean.

Questions
Tobago: You know, I'm not honestly certain how blackbeard's island would interact with natives. It's possible they would be accepting as long as the person in question can pull their weight, but the island would likely also have some of the more negative aspects of the colonial regions. They are PIRATES, after all. I think tobago could remain in place just fine.
Netherlands: Well, we could divy them up, we could hand 'em over to the knights... Maybe france, I think they could use some more territory overall.

**SuperDave** · 2014-10-17, 05:46 PM (ISO 8601)

I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm not dead, I've just allowed myself to get VERY behind on the thread, what with DMing the Crossroads campaign and trying to make sure I actually know the rules well enough to explain them to players who are new to Pathfinder. I'm working my way through the backlog, and I have a lot to say about what's been said, it's just going to take me a while before I say it.

**Admiral Squish** · 2014-10-17, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by SuperDave

I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm not dead, I've just allowed myself to get VERY behind on the thread, what with DMing the Crossroads campaign and trying to make sure I actually know the rules well enough to explain them to players who are new to Pathfinder. I'm working my way through the backlog, and I have a lot to say about what's been said, it's just going to take me a while before I say it.

Well, I most certainly appreciate the update. I'm glad to hear your campaign's going well and you're being a responsible DM, as well as that you're reading up on the backlog. I am definitely looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the topics on the table, though!

**Steckie** · 2014-10-18, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)

Vinland

War between Vinland and Tuniitaq sounds good, but with population and population growth being the way it is, Vinland would be defeated pretty quickly. Even with iron and writing. It would be an interesting concept though....

Alright, how about this:
The Vikings landed in Greenland around 1000 when there weren't any Tuniit living there yet. In later years the Tuniit started to spread over the Mainland, but they were never able to make landfall. The Vinlandr's and their iron weapons were able to beat back the small landing parties that attacked the shore from time to time.
Vinland starts expanding in the centuries that follow and they take control of the whole of Baffin Island and most other small islands around. Eventually they land on Newfoundland and take that as well, using maps from the earliest Viking epeditions. Maybe they repopulate L'Anse aux Meadows?
The Tuniit on their end keep on expanding on Mainland Vespuccia, but the Vinlandr's dominate the seas. By now their borders are right up against each other and while the Tuniit still have room to expand in the other direction the Vinlandr's don't have much options. They can either take the (rather poor) land of the Inuit in the north, take land of the Europeans (practically impossible) or try to take land of the Tuniit.

So they start using the tactics of their ancestors, using Viking longships to raid the coastal towns of the Tuniit. They're not taking any land, just looting and pillaging the area. The Tuniit are struggling to keep control over their coastal towns and the human population living there. Every village on the Hudson bay or in Labrador is basically in danger. The Vinlandr's take Labrador. Then they start taking the northern parts of the Hudson bay coast.
But the tide starts turning, the Tuniit are starting to import something from their latest conquest: an enormous beast that can carry them into battle and that is able to quickly take them from town to town for swift defense. They beat back the raiding Vinlandr's from the Hudson bay and are quickly marching into Labrador.
Aaaand that's when things go bad for them again, in their quick need for a strong cavalry they have started to tax the Mammutcha for their Mammoths too harshly. The Mammutcha revolt, cutting the Tuniit off from a supply of fresh mammoths and opening another front for the Tuniit to defend.
The Tuniit are on the defensive again, but the Vinlandr's aren't doing great either. When they lost the Hudson bay coasts they lost a large part of their army and ships. They are still able to defend Labrador, if just barely.
The Mammutcha on their part are taking back the towns that the Tuniit took from them and throwing them out of their lands. But they are still recovering from being conquered only a few years earlier so there's not much more they can do.

All three nations are now exhausted, the war is slowing down because none of them are able to muster enough men and women to continue fighting.
A peace treaty is signed where they just keep the borders the way they are at the moment.
In later years the Vinlandr's sign a defensive Alliance with the Mammutcha. Tuniitaq gets the knowledge of writing and iron working from the Hudson bay settlements they took back from the Vinlandr's.

The arrival of more and more Europeans in the 17th century stirs things up again. Tuniitaq loses some territory to them and Vinland loses some islands but is able to keep naval dominance over the Labrador Sea. Vinland and Tuniitaq, despite still hating each other over the past, are suddenly forced to work together to keep the Europeans out of their territory. There's still a LOT of bad blood between them, but they don't have any other choice.
Tuniitaq needs Vinland for it's navy and Vinland needs Tuniitaq for it's army and manpower.
Mammutcha supports the Alliance as well, joining because of their long standing defensive pact with Vinland.

Subarctic

This region does pose kind of a problem.
In the new version of Tuniitaq these aren't part of the confederacy and Tuniitaq, Cahokia, the Russians, Fusang and the Plateau people are all going to want a part of it.
What are we to do with the area?

Caribbean

If you want more coastline on the map i'm going to need to find another blank map.
And i have so far been unable to find a decent blank map with both enough islands and a map that doesn't pixellate once i zoom in a little bit.

**Pokonic** · 2014-10-20, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)

Possible solution to the possibility of Vinlander Giant-Kin; ultimately, the Tunit are, in pure mechanic terms, basically Giant-Kin with the Extra Large and Artic Home inheritances. Vinlander giant-kin, all being the decendents of more elementally inclined giants, are easily differed from the far more numerous Tunit by having more elemental features, and, ultimately, having more acceptance among the Vinlanders.

**Admiral Squish** · 2014-10-30, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)

Hey guys, I'm sorry it took me so long to post again. I've been really struggling to get this chapter out before nanowrimo, and it's sorta consumed my life.

However, let it never be said I have been slacking, I almost entirely rewrote the hunter class, which looks pretty sweet right now, and I also posted a penetration weapon trait which involved quite a bit of research and a lot of over-thinking before a simpler solution was pointed out to me.

Anyways, back to work, eh, chaps?

Vinland

Clarification
Okay, I think we could use some clarification on some words and dates involved here.
Firstly, we'll use 'Dorset' to refer to the ancient native culture that inhabited the Hudson Bay area and Greenland, and were wiped out in the real world in around 1200 AD.
'Tuniit' refers to the culture group of humans on the mainland that interbred with giants and became almost entirely giantkin over time.
I think we could probably use a special word specifically for tuniit giantkin.

Year 1000 would probably be the point at which the mainland Dorset began to diverge from the Greenland Dorset.

Warfare
I think, if there were to be warfare between these two groups, it would probably begin quite early, long before Europeans would have been involved. If the Vinland culture was fully established by 1200, then I could see war starting within a hundred years or so. For the conflict to still be going on when mammut were fully domesticated and integrated into the culture of the mammutcha, or when Europeans began to have a serious presence in the 16th century, that would mean we'd be looking at a war that lasted at least two o three hundred years. I can't imagine one wouldn't have wiped the other out by then. I propose that rather than a continuous, serious, resource-draining war, we make the conflict an on-and-off thing. Say, they start fighting, there's a truce after 50 years. Then some Jarl does something stupid years down the road and the war picks back up. Then another peace treaty, and then more idiocy, and more war, and so on, until modern times.

The Vinlandrs have naval superiority, which is a really difficult advantage to defeat, and the Tuniit can't match it with tech because it takes much bigger boats to move Tuniit around, and resources are scarce. So, I think they would have relatively stable borders, with Vinland communities on all the eastern islands, like Greenland, Newfoundland, and other, similar islands. I think they might keep resettling the mainland's coastline, but these settlements would be the first targets of Tuniit aggression whenever war broke out. Meanwhile, the Tuniit would possess a more seriously-trained fighting force and would be a dangerous land enemy to face. The terrain of the engagement would ultimately decide the fate of a conflict. The vinlandrs would be able to raid and move freely over the water and along the coast, but the tuniit would be able to bring the hammer down and keep them from settling and holding and serious territory on the mainland.

Current Affairs
I imagine that at the moment, we're looking at a distrusting alliance. None of the big three in the north would be very tired of fighting one-another, and they certainly wouldn't trust each other, but they would know that further internal warfare would be against their best interest... unless something were to come along and change the balance of power. Gunpowder threatened to do just that, but thanks to Cahokia, they all got access to the weapons at roughly the same time so it became a stalemate once again. Now, all three of them are eyeing each other constantly, trying to figure out if the others have something to upset the balance, and trying to get their hands on any something that would give them an advantage. Think cold war. They would be willing to cooperate on landgrabs by extrenal parties, which they may well view as chances to flex their military muscle and let the other groups know who they're dealing with.

Subarctic
Hmm... Okay, if we want to really fluff this area, we should probably divide it. Really, the two big groups involved are the Cree in the southern and eastern areas, and the Dene in the north and western.

I really haven't had any time to get into the details, though, and I really won't have time until December, it seems...

Caribbean
Well, could you use the waterways map that forms the basis of the basic crossroads map. It's pretty dang enormous, and I'm sure you could crop it down to the appropriate size.

Sloths
This has just occurred to me: Do we want ground/aquatic sloths in this region?
I wiki-wandered into the ground sloth articles, and found that some species of ground sloths survived up to about 3000 BC in the Caribbean. Some articles also put forth that there was fossil evidence that they were adapting to a more aquatic lifestyle, kinda like polar bears.
I think we could have ground or aquatic sloths survive in the region easily enough. They probably wouldn't be as huge as ancient ground sloths, we're looking as something more like the 6-8 foot range from nose to tail.
Aquatic sloths would be spend much of their time in the water, bobbing down to graze on seaweed, then rising back up to take a breath and repeating the process, but they would also likely spend their nights ashore, and it's suspected they would sunbathe periodically. They would be slow and ungainly on land, but all sloths are, really.

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Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

Re: Crossroads II: I'm on a Mammoth.

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