MitD VIII: Everything we know about MITD (but were afraid Tarrasque)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Copyright issues aside, I think it would be very unlikely for the umbrella to be thrown off and the MitD be some obscure creature from a random Dungeon magazine you've never heard of. I think he will either be at least a SOMEWHAT familiar D&D monster, or something well-known from other media or mythology.

And such expectation has been expressed a hundred times by as many participants. I have never really understood why, and attempts at explaining it to me eventually run into definitional or circular issues ("How well known?"; "Well known to whom - current readers, or #100 readers?"; etc.), and functional issues ("How "SOMEWHAT familiar" is Tarrasque/Protean/Zodar/Astral Dragon?"; "What is the cut-off point?"; etc.).

Throwing a personal anecdote into the ring, I only learnt of Tarrasque by playing Starcraft, but for half the life of this thread, it seems every other participant could think of no other monster but it as MitD. I had never heard of any of the current FBS before they were suggested, with the exception of the carbosilicate amorph (but not the Slaad, even though it had featured in OotS). In fact, going through the proposal list, a large majority of them were completely unknown to me before being brought up, and the ones I know best are the least likely to be MitD. As an exercise for the readers, can you guys run down the list and give me a number of the ones you guys did know before the thread and which ones you don't? Oh, and be hones - don't count the Astral Dragon just because you knew about chromatic dragons.

-------------------Refresh to Happen Here -------------------

Fixed a few typos.
Updated the Grendel entry
Added:

• Nightscape Battlemage
• gelatinous cube
• giant snowman
• Illithid Elder Brain
• The Adversary (into section 2d)
• Pooka
• Intellect Devourer

Yours,

Grey Wolf

[Bird]

You misunderstand. Let me give you an example.

Case 1: Illithid/ Mind-flayer.

Ad copy: Psionics: I think it uses points? Or something? maybe crystals?" Laurin and Psteve vs. a Squidyface monster in a battle to determine how psionics actually work.

This is not a comment about what the Giant would or could or should do, just an example of something he has done in the past. (Of course, there was a squidyface monster in the comic, too.)

[littlebum2002]

And such expectation has been expressed a hundred times by as many participants. I have never really understood why, and attempts at explaining it to me eventually run into definitional or circular issues ("How well known?"; "Well known to whom - current readers, or #100 readers?"; etc.), and functional issues ("How "SOMEWHAT familiar" is Tarrasque/Protean/Zodar/Astral Dragon?"; "What is the cut-off point?"; etc.).

Throwing a personal anecdote into the ring, I only learnt of Tarrasque by playing Starcraft, but for half the life of this thread, it seems every other participant could think of no other monster but it as MitD. I had never heard of any of the current FBS before they were suggested, with the exception of the carbosilicate amorph (but not the Slaad, even though it had featured in OotS). In fact, going through the proposal list, a large majority of them were completely unknown to me before being brought up, and the ones I know best are the least likely to be MitD. As an exercise for the readers, can you guys run down the list and give me a number of the ones you guys did know before the thread and which ones you don't? Oh, and be hones - don't count the Astral Dragon just because you knew about chromatic dragons.

-------------------Refresh to Happen Here -------------------

Yours,

Grey Wolf

I am well aware of your opinion on the subject, wrong though it may be () you are entitled to it. I just personally think Rich likes putting puzzles in the story, and that he expects people to be able to solve them, and expecting someone to have an obscure bit of knowledge just isn't a fair way to have them solve a puzzle. But there is a tiny, miniscule possibility I could be wrong.

I'm a casual D&D player, and the ones I have heard of:

Spoiler

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Slaad
Protean
Tarrasque
Grue

Boggart
Red Mage
Black Mage
I have no idea what a "godzilla" is
Gozer
Heffalump
Kirby
MLP
Snorlax (my absolute favorite of the Copyrighted ideas)
Weeping Angel
Yoshi
Zoidberd
(on inspecting this list, I'm amazed at how many were created WELL after the MitD was)

Bigfoot
Centaur
Cherub
Coeurl
Dragons
Elementals
Efreet
Genie
Gloom
Half-Giant
Illithid
Pit Fiend
Solar
Sphynx
Troll
Umbral Blot
Velociraptor
Warforged

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well, before I first looked at this thread (which was also before I began playing D&D), I knew the following suggestions from Section 3:

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Deity
Snarl Jr.
Boggart
Godzilla
Gozer
Kirby
Q
Rawhead Sidhe
Snorlax
Yoshi
Centaur
Deus ex Machina
Displacer Beast (thanks to OOTS)
Dragon
Genie/Djinn
Girard
Half-Giant
Incubus
Titan
Troll
Vaarsuvius
Yeti
Rock
Fanboy

[AgentPaper]

I am well aware of your opinion on the subject, wrong though it may be () you are entitled to it. I just personally think Rich likes putting puzzles in the story, and that he expects people to be able to solve them, and expecting someone to have an obscure bit of knowledge just isn't a fair way to have them solve a puzzle. But there is a tiny, miniscule possibility I could be wrong.

Wow, someone sure knows how to be humble. I suppose then you have an answer to the questions he brought up?

Ultimately, the proof against your theory comes from all the work done in this thread so far. If the MitD really was something that Rich meant to be easily recognizable, then why hasn't anyone recognized him yet? If it's supposed to be a puzzle that most readers can solve, then why has it yet to be solved? Even our best guesses still have significant problems, and certainly none of them fit your "somewhat familiar" requirement.

While I'm sure Rich would have loved for MitD to be something unrecognizable that everyone goes, "Oooh, of COURSE!" to when it's revealed, but that's not the only way to go with this, unless he's been purposefully dropping misleading clues, but that would make the reveal even more disappointing. "Oh, it was actually the Tarrasque all along! It has wish because of a Ring of Wish it had eaten eons ago, and it's smaller and lighter than normal because, uh, a wizard did it.

As for the list of known creatures, I'll have to guess at this a bit, but:

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3a: Only the Slaad.
3d:
Aboleth (but not mage)
Bigfoot
Centaur
Cherub (but not the version that this uses)
Cuatl
Deus Ex Machina
Dragon
Earth Elemental
Efreet
Genie/Djinn
Giant Space Hamster
Gozira
Half-Giant
Hephaestus
Illithid
Incubus
King Kong
Marut
Nessie
Pit Fiend
Planetar
Sarrukh
Solar
Sphinx
Titan
Troll
Two-Headed-Cyclops
Vaarsuvius
Warforged
Yeti

Overall, a pretty pathetic list. Even for the Slaad, I only knew it existed, not anything about it's powers or capabilities, so if it was revealed to be a Slaad, I wouldn't go "oh, of course!" any more than if it was a Uvuudaum or a Hagunemnon or any of the other, more obscure creatures listed here.

[Crusher]

I am well aware of your opinion on the subject, wrong though it may be () you are entitled to it. I just personally think Rich likes putting puzzles in the story, and that he expects people to be able to solve them, and expecting someone to have an obscure bit of knowledge just isn't a fair way to have them solve a puzzle. But there is a tiny, miniscule possibility I could be wrong.

That's great, but imo, since we don't have a really solid first-choice contender (and people still occasionally despair of us ever figuring it out), narrowing the list of potential candidates doesn't really get us anywhere.

Sure, it could theoretically narrow the list of the Proposed Candidates, but so what? I mean, how much better off would we be if we all eventually agreed to kick the Kyton Eremite off the list for being too obscure? We'd be zero percent better. And that's assuming we actually agreed on the concept (which we don't) and that we could smoothly come up with a list of really precise and clear guidelines to apply (which we wouldn't). Its a counter-productive, insolvable exercise even without getting into the tangled morass of trying to come up with a set of guidelines based on guessing Rich's intentions.

Even a more straight-forward "weeding out", something as basic as "lets kick out everything that just couldn't plausibly be the MitD, starting with the Centaur", still wouldn't add any value even if it could be done without a massive forum bloodbath (which it probably can't), because our problem isn't too many candidates on the Proposed List, our problem is not enough candidates on the Fits Big Scenes list.

At the end of the day, we all agree that we currently have a slightly unsatisfyingly complete list of candidates. Anything that makes that list smaller is not going to make that list more satisfying and might, to someone in some small way, make it less satisfying which is a step backwards. Even if we're just talking about the Centaur.

As a final point, think about it this way: If we restricted ourselves to candidates that seemed "decently well known" (by some commonly agreed upon standard), what new candidate(s) would be introduced as a result? Or, what already proposed candidate(s) have been under-appreciated by us not imposing that standard? If there answer is "none", then it doesn't actually do us any good, does it?

Edit - Adding on to the "what monsters did you already know about?" list, I'd ballpark that I knew a couple dozen or so. There are probably a dozen or more that almost everyone with any familiarity with RPGs will at least know of (centaur, efreeti, dragons, etc), and I knew probably another dozen or so based on residual memories of the last time I played an RPG a couple decades ago (Slaadi, Glabrezu, Displacer Beast, etc), and then a smattering more from D&D/fantasy themed computer games and whatnot over the last few years (Fhoimoren Giant, Warforged, etc). I certainly had no idea what a Zodar or Laogzed were. Of the FBS list, the only ones I knew of were the Slaad (and even then I only knew they existed and were color coordinated, I had no idea Whites or Blacks specifically existed, much less their powers) and the Hunting Horror (and that's only because I'm a big Lovecraft fan).

[littlebum2002]

Wow, someone sure knows how to be humble. I suppose then you have an answer to the questions he brought up?

Not in the slightest

I mean, if the character was written with the same readership the comic has now, then I would honestly think it would be something recognizable to "the average person (American, fine)". I mean it would be cruel to have a puzzle that so many people who don't even play D&D want to figure out be some obscure thing.

But that's not the crowd he had, what? 9 years ago? Back then the readership was a mostly hardcore D&D fanbase. So while I still don't think it will end up being "The half-illithid purple brood-keeper which was statted out in Dragon #203", I think it would be something recognizable at least to a regular d&d player. Even if it is an iconic monster from 1E (which would explain why everyone is surprised to see it, since it should have been in Durokon's Dungeon) at least when people see it they would go "oh, THAT'S what it is", not "what the heck is that"

Ultimately, the proof against your theory comes from all the work done in this thread so far. If the MitD really was something that Rich meant to be easily recognizable, then why hasn't anyone recognized him yet? If it's supposed to be a puzzle that most readers can solve, then why has it yet to be solved? Even our best guesses still have significant problems, and certainly none of them fit your "somewhat familiar" requirement.

While I'm sure Rich would have loved for MitD to be something unrecognizable that everyone goes, "Oooh, of COURSE!" to when it's revealed, but that's not the only way to go with this, unless he's been purposefully dropping misleading clues, but that would make the reveal even more disappointing. "Oh, it was actually the Tarrasque all along! It has wish because of a Ring of Wish it had eaten eons ago, and it's smaller and lighter than normal because, uh, a wizard did it.

But, as you pointed out, my theory has many flaws, which is why I was so snarky.

[AgentPaper]

But, as you pointed out, my theory has many flaws, which is why I was so snarky.

Usually, realizing that your theory has many flaws doesn't manifest as, "You're wrong, and I'm almost certainly right." That's not snarky, that's dismissive and rude.

[b_jonas]

As an exercise for the readers, can you guys run down the list and give me a number of the ones you guys did know before the thread and which ones you don't? Oh, and be hones - don't count the Astral Dragon just because you knew about chromatic dragons.

Spoiler: what I'd heared about

Show

Of the current FBS list (section 3a, 6 entries), I knew none before this thread. I've heared of how Schlock Mercenary was a famous webcomic strip, but haven't ever read any substantial amount of it, don't know anything about its story, and definitely didn't know about the Carbosilicate Amorph.

Of section 3b, I'd definitely heared of deities and grues (the dark-loving kind). I've heared of pun-pun like munchkin characters independently, but I'm not sure that was before this thread, unless you take it very loosely. I have heared of the snarl before, obviously, but not of "Snarl Jr". I definitely hadn't met the tarrasque before.

Of section 3c, I had heared about Godzilla, Heffalump (from Winnie-the-Pooh), Kirby (Nintendo games), My Little Pony, Ygramul (I proposed this, and it's the best among all I proposed I think), Yoshi (from the Super Mario games) before this thread (this doesn't mean I knew much about them). I had also heared of some other unlikely copyrighted stuff I mentioned just for the sake of exercise, like Marry Poppins.

Of section 3d, I had heared of Audrey II (I've seen the film), Bigfoot, Centaur, Cherub, Disenchanter, Displacer Beast (those purple monsters with displacement that appear in OotS), Dragon, Earth Elemental, Efreet, Genie/Djinn, Grendel, Half-Giant (from Harry Potter only), Hephaestus (the lame god from Greek mythology), Illithid (mind flayer), Incubus (demon), Jubilex (demon lord), Nessie the Loch Ness Monster, Pit Fiend (another demon or devil thingy), Shade (undead), Snark, Solar (angelic being), Sphinx, Titan, Troll, Vaarsuvius, Velociraptor (dinosaur), Warforged (humanoid-shaped construct), Wumpus. I'd heared of Gozilla if it's the same giant dinosaur-like monster as Godzilla from section 3c. I'd heared of Cuatl if it's the same as couatl, the serpent-like being originating from old south american mythology. I may have heared of a Baku, but more l likely only of a different monster with the same name, I can't load the link. I've heared of a deus ex machina, but not a personified one; of King-Kong, but not of a descendent of his; and of an umber hulk, but not a Truly Horrid one. I'd heared of Jabberwock from the Lewis Carol poem, and if "Jaberwock" is a misspelling for it, you should correct it. I'd heared of reality warpers, but I'm not sure this is the same kind. I'd heared of a yeti, but I think before this thread I thought it's another name for a bigfoot – now I believe they're actually two very similar creatures originating from different myths, both similar to trolls from norse mythology. I'd also heared of some of the unlikely non-copyrighted stuff I mentioned for the sake of exercise, such as the earthquaker from Andrew Lang's book.

Hmm, that's actually quite a lot, but I'm taking "heared of" broadly, I might not have been able to list the properties of some of these, and I'm not completely sure all of those were before this thread.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'd heared of Gozilla if it's the same giant dinosaur-like monster as Godzilla from section 3c. [...] I'd heared of Jabberwock from the Lewis Carol poem, and if "Jaberwock" is a misspelling for it, you should correct it.

Removed Godzilla as a dup of 3c, and fixed Jabberwock. Edit: fixed spelling of Couatl too.

Thanks!

GW

[littlebum2002]

Usually, realizing that your theory has many flaws doesn't manifest as, "You're wrong, and I'm almost certainly right." That's not snarky, that's dismissive and rude.

Well, that's why I put the smiley face, to convey sarcasm. I mean his opinion almost certainly has more merit than mine, since as was pointed out, if my idea was true the monster should have been discovered by now.

[Bird]

As an exercise for the readers, can you guys run down the list and give me a number of the ones you guys did know before the thread and which ones you don't? Oh, and be hones - don't count the Astral Dragon just because you knew about chromatic dragons.

Here's my number known:

3a: 2/6
3b: 4/5 (all but Snarl Jr)
3c: 15/25
3d: 57/148
3e: 3/5

And a list of the ones I knew:

Spoiler

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3a
Hunting Horror (CoC)
Slaad

3b
Deity
Grue
Pun-Pun
Tarrasque

3c
Boggart (Harry Potter)
Domo-kun
FF Black Mage
FF Red Mage
Godzilla & pals
Heffalump
Kirby
My Little Pony
Q (from Star Trek)
Snorlax
Tonberri
Vorlon (from Babylon 5)
Weeping Angel (from Dr. Who)
Yoshi
Zoidberg

3d
Aboleth mage
Astral Dreadnaught
Audrey II
Baku
Barghest
Bigfoot
Centaur
Couatl
Crypt Thing
Dao
DEM
Displacer Beast
Dragon
Dread Linnorm
Earth Elemental
Efreet
Enveloper
Formian Myrmarch
Genie/Djinn
Giant Space Hamster
Girard
Glabrezu
Gray Render
Grendel
Gray Slaad
Guardinal, Leonal
Half-Giant
Hellfire Wyrm
Hephaestus
Illithid
Incubus
Infernal
Jabberwock
Jubilex
Li Lung
Neo-otyugh
Nessie
Nightmare Beast
Oni
Phasm
Pit Fiend
Planetar
Reality Warper (ie 5d imp)
Shoggoth
Snark
Solar
Sphinx
Stench kow
Sun Wukong
Titan
Troll
Vaarsuvius
Velociraptor
Warforged
Wendigo
Wild Things
Yeti

3e
Rock
Gazebo
Fanboy

[goto124]

I'm not sure if this has been pointed out, but in #699, MitD couldn't use whatever it used to teleport again, and it itself didn't know why. It also (believes that it) can't use magic.

The next comic (#700), which showed the MitD knowing about the half-ritual thing, makes the above interesting though.

MitD probably also has some form of telekinesis, since it doesn't seem to use hands to play board games. Unless I'm reading too much into it.

[b_jonas]

MitD probably also has some form of telekinesis, since it doesn't seem to use hands to play board games. Unless I'm reading too much into it.

He doesn't need telekinesis for that. He can just announce his move, and O-Chul moves the physical stone on the board.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm not sure if this has been pointed out, but in #699, MitD couldn't use whatever it used to teleport again, and it itself didn't know why. It also (believes that it) can't use magic.

It has been pointed out. Many feel it is strongly indicative that there is a hard limit on the number of wishes he can cast (e.g. Zodar's "only thrice") or indicative of a extended period between casting (e.g. "one per month"). The second avenue of inquiry has turned out to be a lot more barren than I would have expected - turns out, very few 3.5 creatures have that kind of conditionals (it was more an AD&D style, maybe?). There is also the matter of emotional connection to O-Chul that is not present with random goblin - truenaming has been mentioned in connection to this, and it is the lynchpin of our search for spontanous ("sorcery") castings of teleport. If neither of those convince you, the old "well, he's MitD, he is rather ignorant" can do.

The next comic (#700), which showed the MitD knowing about the half-ritual thing, makes the above interesting though.

Can't say I understand why. Knowledge(Arcana) is not necessarily connected to casting ability -sure, they often go hand in hand, but it is hardly required. I am particularly fond of the explanation that MitD has telepathy, and heard RC thinking about the half-ritual, which is why he knows. It is a weak explanation, I'll grant you, but it fits nicely with why MitD is so confused: if he can't tell when people are talking and when they are merely thinking, he must live in a very confused environment of babble that often contradicts itself (E.g.: someone thinking: "man, you are fat" and then saying: "Hey, you look good. Did you loose some weight?")

MitD probably also has some form of telekinesis, since it doesn't seem to use hands to play board games. Unless I'm reading too much into it.

If he has telekinesis, why did he need to rock the box to hook the bucket with stew in SoD? More likely, any moves happen between panels, or MitD says where he wants the stone, O-Chul moves them for him.

Grey Wolf

[Kornaki]

Can't say I understand why. Knowledge(Arcana) is not necessarily connected to casting ability -sure, they often go hand in hand, but it is hardly required. I am particularly fond of the explanation that MitD has telepathy, and heard RC thinking about the half-ritual, which is why he knows. It is a weak explanation, I'll grant you, but it fits nicely with why MitD is so confused: if he can't tell when people are talking and when they are merely thinking, he must live in a very confused environment of babble that often contradicts itself (E.g.: someone thinking: "man, you are fat" and then saying: "Hey, you look good. Did you loose some weight?")

That could also explain how he knows about the Astral Plane.

If he has telekinesis, why did he need to rock the box to hook the bucket with stew in SoD? More likely, any moves happen between panels, or MitD says where he wants the stone, O-Chul moves them for him.

Grey Wolf

There's no way he told O-Chul where to move the piece, and then told O-Chul it was his move. I think MitD moved the piece himself in some capacity during that panel.

[rweird]

That could also explain how he knows about the Astral Plane.

That actually would fall under Knowledge (The Planes).

[Peelee]

That actually would fall under Knowledge (The Planes).

You misunderstand the comment; The "telepath" explanation does away with any Knowledge (Thing) skills being mandated; he would know about the half ritual from Redcloak's thoughts, and know about the Astral Plane from Xykon's thoughts.

[rweird]

You misunderstand the comment; The "telepath" explanation does away with any Knowledge (Thing) skills; he would know about the arcane half of the ritual from Redcloak's thoughts, and know about the Astral Plane from Xykon's thoughts.

Ah, still, telepathy doesn't work that way in D&D (it allows you to communicate, however reading thoughts is much harder. Detect Thoughts might work, but Xykon is an undead and would be immune.

[littlebum2002]

Ah, still, telepathy doesn't work that way in D&D (it allows you to communicate, however reading thoughts is much harder. Detect Thoughts might work, but Xykon is an undead and would be immune.

Much harder? It's a 2nd level power.

Read Thoughts

[rweird]

Much harder? It's a 2nd level power.

Read Thoughts

Read Thoughts is the Psioninc equivalent of Detect Thoughts.

I'm not all that familiar with Psionics, I know a number of creatures have Detect Thoughts as a Su/SLA at-will, I don't know if anything besides a Psion/Wilder would be able to use Read Thoughts. I wouldn't be surprised if various psionic creatures do, but so far we haven't found anything with that psionic ability that is a good fit (or at all, to my limited memory).

Read Thoughts wouldn't work on Xykon (or any undead) either as it is mind-effecting, to which all undead are flat-out immune. Reading RC's mind could explain how the Hagunemnon knew about it being half the ritual, despite not having ranks in Knowledge (Arcana).

Still, he might be able to read other people's thoughts. The Hagunemnon has Detect Thoughts as an at-will SLA (DC 24), the Hunting Horror might have some CoC equivalent (don't know the CoC system).

[littlebum2002]

In order to use Read Thoughts you need to be a Telepath, which is how this entire conversation got started. That would kinda fit everything. Well, except the fact that Psionic Teleport is a Nomad power. Which means you need some sort of monster that can cast both as SLA's, which has so far been elusive.

(Telepaths and Nomads are disciplines like Conjurers and Evokers, except that you only pick one)

[rweird]

We have no evidence of the MitD having class levels. I don't know of any psionic monsters that can manifest/has SLAs although that could explain the escape. We'd need it to be weird-lookinghave aura, and be really strong. There is some template that can give Greater Psionic Teleport (requires 16+ HD, but we don't really have evidence of the template). It as an interesting line of questioning though.

I thought you meant "Has telepathy" from "Telepath." Sorry.

[Crusher]

We have no evidence of the MitD having class levels. I don't know of any psionic monsters that can manifest/has SLAs although that could explain the escape. We'd need it to be weird-lookinghave aura, and be really strong. There is some template that can give Greater Psionic Teleport (requires 16+ HD, but we don't really have evidence of the template). It as an interesting line of questioning though.

I thought you meant "Has telepathy" from "Telepath." Sorry.

Well, this does bring us back to the Intellect Devourer and its Wild Talent feat which lets it... do something? Not that I'm particularly advocating this, but hypothetically speaking, would a half-dragon half-whatever Intellect Devourer (enough templates to get it to 16+ HD) be capable of Psionic Teleport?

[rweird]

Well, this does bring us back to the Intellect Devourer and its Wild Talent feat which lets it... do something? Not that I'm particularly advocating this, but hypothetically speaking, would a half-dragon half-whatever Intellect Devourer (enough templates to get it to 16+ HD) be capable of Psionic Teleport?

We have the templated potted plant. But, yes.

[littlebum2002]

We have no evidence of the MitD having class levels. I don't know of any psionic monsters that can manifest/has SLAs although that could explain the escape. We'd need it to be weird-lookinghave aura, and be really strong. There is some template that can give Greater Psionic Teleport (requires 16+ HD, but we don't really have evidence of the template). It as an interesting line of questioning though.

I thought you meant "Has telepathy" from "Telepath." Sorry.

Well, there's something odd about the Protean. It says it has "psionics" as SLA's, but then lists a bunch of spells. I don't get that at all.

What template gives Greater Psionic Teleport? Phrenic Creature gives regular Psionic Teleport.

Speaking of which, is there a reason this template doesn't appear in any of the lists?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Well, there's something odd about the Protean. It says it has "psionics" as SLA's, but then lists a bunch of spells. I don't get that at all.

The Protean ins't technically a psionic monster (because it come out before there were such thing as psionics monsters in 3.0). The "psionics" is just the name of his ability, which is a bunch of SLAs which emulate psionic powers. Someone mentioned that there is a way to convert this kind of pre-psionic-rules monsters to use the psionic rules, which by some method gave it teleport, but (as mentioned in OP), we don't know that such rules are in place, and thus Protean depends on the Alter Shape power instead to explain the escape.

Grey Wolf

[rweird]

Well, there's something odd about the Protean. It says it has "psionics" as SLA's, but then lists a bunch of spells. I don't get that at all.

What template gives Greater Psionic Teleport?

Couatls and other MMI creatures have psionics as SLAs, for people who don't use the Psionics handbook. I believe that one of the psionic books has rules for converting them if psionic.

Phrenic template gives Psionic teleport (misremembered, it isn't greater) at 16+ HD.

[littlebum2002]

Grey, I asked a question above after you already answered. IS there a reason the Phrenic template doesn't appear in any of the lists? I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of it, but it could be added to any number of "strong" monsters to give them access to Teleport/

[rweird]

Grey, I asked a question above after you already answered. IS there a reason the Phrenic template doesn't appear in any of the lists? I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of it, but it could be added to any number of "strong" monsters to give them access to Teleport/

2d Augmentation mentions stuff like that.