New DM, long time assistance on various matters

[MrUberGr]

I proposed it to him. The problem is that the ranger thought he'd give it a go. *facepalm* He'll try it in an encouter and then decide what he wants to play.

Being scared cause they saw a large force of goblins they decided not to rest for the night. The day started a bit after dawn, they were riding all day and had two fights. When should they roll an endurance check, and what penalty should be imposed? Even if it's not at the 24h mark then a bit later, cause they won't get any real sleep, and there are 2-3 encounters more to come.

Any ideas on this? Next session is in a few hours. I couldn't find something on penalties when you fail your endurance check.

[tcrudisi]

Typically "lose a surge".

Alternatively, anything you feel is appropriate. Perhaps they are so exhausted that they are automatically surprised in their next combat. Or whatever.

[MrUberGr]

So no "-1 to hit because you are very tired and swing properly" or -1 defenses for the same reason.

[Yakk]

-1 penalties are rarely worth tracking. You'll either spend a bunch of time on them and have them come up rarely anyhow, or forget to apply them.

[Epinephrine]

-1 penalties are rarely worth tracking. You'll either spend a bunch of time on them and have them come up rarely anyhow, or forget to apply them.

Agreed, hard to track too many modifiers. The idea of having them be surprised more easily is good, but pretty harsh.
Does seem like a good opportunity for an endurance check, though - make those people who trained it feel better. If they fail a check maybe they are less alert (-X to perception, -Y to initiative) and that it will get worse if they don't get some rest. Worse initiative is a pretty big penalty, and lower perception can make it much easier to get surprised.

[Yakk]

If you want to use official-looking mechanics, you could create a disease track for exhasted.

When you miss 50% or more of the targets of an attack power, are hit by an attack, travel at more than half pace for an hour, or exert yourself in a similar manner, you have to roll (against endurnace) to see if the "disease" gets worse. The DC grows until you fail and drop a step, then resets.

To make a recovery roll you need to spend a healing surge or sleep. The amount of sleep to make a recovery roll varies with how exhausted you are: an extended rest to get rid of the "lowest" stage (healing surge may not be used to recover that one), while more "extreme" stages can be rolled against with less time resting.

Naturally said extended rest does not let you regain healing surges (!).

Every day you go without taking an extended rest, the "baseline" exhaustion state (above which you cannot make a recovery roll without taking an extended rest) goes up by 1 step. Spitball how many days someone can go without sleep before being crippled in the real world, and have that many steps to the "disease".

This may be too complex, but the idea is that if you are going to track something, make it meaty, not a -1 penalty.

[MrUberGr]

Yep, I'll have too look into this. It's a good idea. I ended up giving them a -1 on attack rolls and NADs and we all forgot to apply them, so something more meaningfull next time.

[tcrudisi]

Yep, I'll have too look into this. It's a good idea. I ended up giving them a -1 on attack rolls and NADs and we all forgot to apply them, so something more meaningfull next time.

KISS.

Losing a surge is the easiest thing to do. It's also very common with Endurance checks.

I also liked the idea of "enemies automatically get a surprise round against the PCs who failed the Endurance check." It's a bit more punitive than simply losing a surge; it both exemplifies how tired they are that they can't respond quickly to the threat being posed before them and it makes the combat tougher. Both of those are great for penalties. If a PC passed the Endurance check, then they also get to act in the surprise round.

Simply handing out a -1 to hit and defenses isn't really going to do much. The problem with penalties is that they can quickly add up and go from "meh" to "we die". So if you start stacking it up and suddenly they are at -5, then they are probably going to be TPK'ed if it was anything resembling a decent encounter to begin with. If you give too small of a penalty, the PC's won't care. If you give too big of one, they will be grossly outmatched. Or, everyone will forget to include it. (Though its easier to do this on YOUR end by adding +1 to the monsters attack rolls and defenses. Simply cross out their actual attack bonus and defenses and write in the new one. Or, if you are using a computer, edit the image.)

I like the idea of the disease track, but it also feels "too complicated". Too many fiddly bits for my taste. Not only would you have to make one up, but then you have to make people roll more Endurance/Heal checks and it becomes more fiddly than giving out "penalties".

[MrUberGr]

Where can I find more diseases that the ones in DMG 1? The players will visit a small, isolated island where people beyond curing, or who cannot afford a "Cure Disease" are dumped. They will get there at around level 7. I know about the ones in the MM but those are more like encounter diseases, rather than actual ones.

[UndertakerSheep]

Where can I find more diseases that the ones in DMG 1? The players will visit a small, isolated island where people beyond curing, or who cannot afford a "Cure Disease" are dumped. They will get there at around level 7. I know about the ones in the MM but those are more like encounter diseases, rather than actual ones.

According to the Compendium, the sources that have the most diseases are:

• Demonomicon
• Book of Vile Darkness
• Monster Manuals
• Monster Vaults
• Dungeon Magazines

There's a bunch of Dungeon Magazines that have a few diseases. For a complete list, refer to the compendium.

[MrUberGr]

Are all the sources noted in the compendium for 4e? I believe I had found something refering to a dragon magazine 2xx.

[Tegu8788]

Everything is in the compendium, with very few exceptions. Now, there are a number of things that have multiple sources, and it lists them as "Multiple Sources," which is not helpful there is a bit of a learning curve to finding stuff, so keep looking.

[Kimera757]

Where can I find more diseases that the ones in DMG 1? The players will visit a small, isolated island where people beyond curing, or who cannot afford a "Cure Disease" are dumped. They will get there at around level 7. I know about the ones in the MM but those are more like encounter diseases, rather than actual ones.

Sadly, you won't find many of these. This isn't surprising. Facing diptheria was a real (and common) challenge "back in those days", but it's not really heroic. IMO, diseases don't need to enter the game unless it's some sort of massive plague or exotic disease.

[MrUberGr]

I don't want people dying from diseases. I just want to give them something to worry about for a bit, and also to make it worthwhile having endurance trained.

I might use blinding sickness with a bit lowered DCs

[Kimera757]

I don't want people dying from diseases. I just want to give them something to worry about for a bit, and also to make it worthwhile having endurance trained.

I might use blinding sickness with a bit lowered DCs

They're visiting an exotic place, so an exotic disease. You can frankly make something up. I'm fond of diseases that steal healing surges and inflict defense penalties.

[MrUberGr]

Solo-ifying a monster.

I got a pc that has a grudge against a specifc "hand of bane"(MM p 139). At some point I want to give him the option to 1v1 it. Any suggestions on how to do it? I've thought about turning his at-will powers into encounter powers,keep the passive, and keep the save roll as a utility immediate reaction. Give him an at will or two, and lower his stats. He's the rogue, who, after a few changes to the party is now a fey beast tamer.

[Inevitability]

Don't use the MM. It's bad.

Just pick up the Monster Vault, search for a monster that is an appropriate challenge, refluff as you like. Maybe swap one or two abilities with another monster of its level.

[Angel Bob]

Alternatively, to update monsters from the MM to current standards, use Blog of Holding's MM3 on a business card. I've used it many times to both update old monsters and to create new ones, and I find it works well.

[MrUberGr]

I made dis:

Spoiler: Noxxle

Show

Noxxle, Hand of Bane
Initiative: +7 Perception +5, lowlight vision
Level 6 Soldier
HP: 88 AC: 24 Fort: 22 Ref: 20 Will: 21
Speed: 5
Action point: 1

At-Will:
Flail: +10vs AC; 1d10+6 dmg
Handaxe: ranged:5/10 +10vs AC; 1d6+6 dmg

Encounter:
Flail of Dread: +12vs AC; 1d10+6. Secondary attack: +10vs Willl; -2 to all defenses until the end of Noxxle's next turn
Flail of Tyranny: +12vs AC; 2d10+6 Effect: (Immobilized save ends) OR (Slowed until the end of next turn + 5 ongoing save ends) [whaddaya think]

Passive
Bane's Blessing: when first bloodied; +2 to damage rolls
Hobgoblin Resilience: Roll a saving throw when bla bla.

Equipment: Full Plate, Flail, Heavy Shield, 3 Handaxes

Now, this is meant to be killed 1v1 by a lvl 6 rogue with a young owlbear. The rogue is nicely optimized.

Thinking of adding a secondary attack to his at-will: [+10vs Reflex, dazed until the end of next turn], but I'm afraid it would be too hardcore :P

I want it to be the equivalent of a L+3 cause I'm gonna give the rest of the group an encounter of L+3 as well. Gonna run two encounters at once. Not looking forward to it.

-----------------------

On a different matter:
<<Wizard casts "Featherfall" on adventurers. Adventurers climb into catapults, and are flung over a city's walls. Adventurers drop to the ground softly. >>
Does it work this way?

[Inevitability]

On a different matter:
<<Wizard casts "Featherfall" on adventurers. Adventurers climb into catapults, and are flung over a city's walls. Adventurers drop to the ground softly. >>
Does it work this way?

No. Feather Fall is an immediate interrupt power, so you can't cast it beforehand. Even if you are talking about 3.5, it doesn't work.

[MrUberGr]

Well, I guess said wizard was powerful and was able to research a new spell.

What about the monster?

[Kimera757]

[quote]

I made dis:

Spoiler: Noxxle

Show

Noxxle, Hand of Bane
Initiative: +7 Perception +5, lowlight vision
Level 6 Soldier
HP: 88 AC: 24 Fort: 22 Ref: 20 Will: 21
Speed: 5
Action point: 1

At-Will:
Flail: +10vs AC; 1d10+6 dmg
Handaxe: ranged:5/10 +10vs AC; 1d6+6 dmg

Encounter:
Flail of Dread: +12vs AC; 1d10+6. Secondary attack: +10vs Willl; -2 to all defenses until the end of Noxxle's next turn
Flail of Tyranny: +12vs AC; 2d10+6 Effect: (Immobilized save ends) OR (Slowed until the end of next turn + 5 ongoing save ends) [whaddaya think]

Passive
Bane's Blessing: when first bloodied; +2 to damage rolls
Hobgoblin Resilience: Roll a saving throw when bla bla.

Equipment: Full Plate, Flail, Heavy Shield, 3 Handaxes

A single PC is equivalent to an elite monster. (A team of one elite NPC per PC results in a level +4 encounter, or theoretical 50% win/loss encounter.)

This seems like an elite due to having an AP, but it's not really. It only attacks once per round. An elite needs two attacks per round.

Also it's using MM1 math. The AC is too high (should be 22). The attack bonus should be +11 vs AC or +9 vs NAD. At least two NADs should be reduced by 2 points as well. As it is, the rogue will have a very hard time hitting (at least, a hard time after the owlbear is killed).

Now, this is meant to be killed 1v1 by a lvl 6 rogue with a young owlbear. The rogue is nicely optimized.

Normally a rogue is pretty weak in a 1v1 scenario, but this guy has a flanking partner, so it should be alright.

Thinking of adding a secondary attack to his at-will: [+10vs Reflex, dazed until the end of next turn], but I'm afraid it would be too hardcore :P

Sounds like a decent encounter ability.

I want it to be the equivalent of a L+3 cause I'm gonna give the rest of the group an encounter of L+3 as well. Gonna run two encounters at once. Not looking forward to it.

-----------------------

I don't know what you mean. Equivalent of level +3? Isn't the rogue 6th-level? I'd use an elite of the rogue's level, not something much higher level.

On a different matter:
<<Wizard casts "Featherfall" on adventurers. Adventurers climb into catapults, and are flung over a city's walls. Adventurers drop to the ground softly. >>
Does it work this way?

No. Need a new spell. Or a ritual. Would be a pretty cool tactic.

[GPuzzle]

Can't he use Feather Fall while falling after being catapulted?

[Kimera757]

Can't he use Feather Fall while falling after being catapulted?

That works too.

[MrUberGr]

I think the rogue's +on attack rolls with CA is something like +14. Not sure though cause he changed his build an we haven't played combat since. I should lower the monster's to-hits. Forgot to do it when leveling him down. For the rest, I calculated it through the Monster business card, posted by angel bob.

I based the monster off the "hobgoblin hand of bane" mm1 p140 which is a lvl8 elite soldier. Gave it some stuff, like the AP, while didn't give him a +2 to ST. I turned his stun in an immobilize, and made it an encounter power. It would be too powerfull 1v1.

As for the daze, I'm thinking of adding it as a secondary to his at will. Not a differentt attack alltogether.

The wizard can't cast it then because he won't be going in with the group.

[MrUberGr]

So, the rogue hits with +16 on attack rolls when he has CA, which is almost always due to his owlbear. His damage is normally around 25-26 with encounter powers. This means he can kill the hobgoblin in three to four rounds. His AC 21 and his Will 17. So, he hits on an 8 and the hobgoblin on a 9.Depending on the rogue's HP I think it's pretty alright.

What do you think about adding the secondary on the at will, and which of the two should the effect be on the second encounter power?

[MrUberGr]

Treasure Rewards

So, I have this major problem. I don't know how or what to reward. On the previos level I gave stuff out as the dmg says. The problem is that the party was unbalanced, because someone had a level 9 item when someone else had 1000g. We ended up calculating the monetary value and splitting it up by four. I don't like this RP-wise, but I also don't want players to feel mistreated. When I was rolling to see who would get the last magic item reward, I could clearly see that the one who got nothing was totally bummed out.

The second question, is how much treasure I should reward. Should I just give out what the DMG says? The players pointed out yesterday, quite correctly I must say, that, if I do that, they'd never be able to buy wondrous items, like a floating lantern etc.

Finally, If I would reward them, a house in a city, for example, it wouldn't really be gamebreaking, would it? They just help reclaim a city where there had been an "inside job". I think, that besides money, they could get something else as well.

[Inevitability]

A party of 5 characters gains 20 items over the course of 5 levels. (The period in which a single 'enhancement bonus' is used)

Every member needs:

-An attack-boosting item
-An AC-boosting item
-A NAD-boosting item

5x3=15, and 20-15=5, so you could reasonably give a level-appropriate fluff item at every level without making the players worse in the long run.

It is indeed not fun to lose on magic items, but as shown above, in the long run everyone will get the same stuff. Or you exchange some of the monetary reward for items of the same value.

A house in a city is surely not gamebreaking. PC's are away most of the time anyways.

[masteraleph]

Another way of fixing the item distribution- the item distribution in the DMG, for a 5 person party, is one item each of level +1 to +4 (4 total). In gold value, that works out to 5 items of level +1 to +2 (depending on where you are in a tier). I think it's reasonable to give that out instead, so no one will be well ahead of the others. It also opens up the use of more items- for characters using 2 implements or weapons, literally all of their allotted items are taken up by increasing those at each tier, according to the DMG's system. Another alternative is Living Forgotten Realm's system- when you level up (or thereabouts), you can choose to gain an Uncommon item of your (new) level, or a common item up to your (new) level +2. Rare items are one per tier and at the DM's discretion, and players can have no more than one permanent uncommon item per their level on them (i.e. a level 10 adventurer could have up to 10 uncommon items).

[MrUberGr]

The party consists of four members. Now, when they finished the intro of the campaign, got to level 7, and I gave them 4k each, for a total of 600gp (16k instead of 15.4) more than what the DMG suggests. Gonna give them a house, and a small title, reckognizable only in the kingdom they're in. Fluff mostly. I could give them a small wondrous item as well, I guess.