Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

[unseenmage]

Q276

Am looking to Animate some piles of odd substances and had a few Qs.
Chief among them was, how much gp would a small sized creature's worth of gp cost and weigh?

How much if it's raw unmined gold or silver?

How much if it's just a pile of Adamantine or Mithril bought as a commodity?


Q277

Can Animated Objects be improved after their initial construction like other Magic Items?
Can additional CP be spent on them after they're animated?

[Psyren]

A274: Yes, using QBR you can move with a bull-rushed target even if you full attack. It doesn't care about your move action, just your move speed.
In other words, if you full-attack with QBR and hit with your highest iterative, you would use that attack to start the bull rush, and be able to move with the target. At the end of that move (however far you managed to push them - based on your check result or move rate, whichever is lower), you could then choose to take the remainder of your attacks on them provided you were still in range - typically, if you had moved with them the whole way or at least stopped within reach.

(Also, QBR is not a swift action - it simply replaces one of your attacks, specifically the highest iterative. So you would still have your swift action to use - before, after, or any time during that sequence above. A good use for this is a quickened True Strike spell to significantly boost your bull rush attempt prior to the sequence above - you can use a lesser rod of quicken if need be.)

A275: Yes, if they have less than total concealment they will no longer be protected from your sneak attacks. (Keep in mind you can do the same thing many levels earlier by using the Shadow Strike feat instead.)

A276 clarification: Could you elaborate on this one a bit? It sounds like you want to make a pile of very small items (like coins) into one Small Animated Object, which is not possible. You must target discrete objects (though they can be smaller than Small) per casting. Or am I misreading your question?

A277: The short answer here is that there are two ways to make animated objects - using the spell, and using Craft Construct. Both rules are given on the page you provided. The latter method allows you to improve them afterward (using the regular rules for improving magic items) but the former does not.

[Aergoth]

A276:

According to the SRD (from Ultimate Combat) "Items constructed purely of gold cost 10 times the normal cost for items of their type. Gold items weigh 50% more than typical weapons or armor of their type." So that's probably a good place to start. Remember that your weight in gold is not a lot of gold because gold is really quite heavy.
The table you linked places a small metal statue at 420 pounds for a hollow construction of bronze or wrought iron. A gold statue probably isn't solid gold because that stuff is really bendy/malleable, so it could be built around some kind of harder core, likely iron. A small statue of solid marble is listed at 300 pounds.

Adamantine by the pound is listed at 300 gp per pound (under trade goods> glasses and metals), presumably unworked. but mithral costs 500 gp/lb

Unmined gold or silver is basically rock laced with the minerals in very small quantities. There was actually an article recently that quoted someone as saying that particularly gold rich rock gives you a gram or two of gold per tonne of rock.

[unseenmage]

Q276 clarification

Yeah, the goal was to have a pile of stuff, animated that would then be able to lay about and look like a pile of stuff that wouldn't look out of place in a dungeon. Or would, depending o whether I wanted some unwary goblin walking towards or away from said pile of stuff.

Changed the wording from 'pile of' to 'sculpture of' so that it's not many smaller objects anymore. Especially as I decided to make them roughly hand-shaped.

Thanks for the heads up.
Honestly, I kind of miss 3.0's Animate Objects which explicitly let you animate puddles of water or volumes of sand.

[Psyren]

Honestly, I kind of miss 3.0's Animate Objects which explicitly let you animate puddles of water or volumes of sand.

That doesn't seem to be the case in 3.5, so it's no surprise that PF doesn't have that option either. At least, I don't see anything about puddles or piles anywhere in the PHB or MM1.

As for a sculpture - the costs you pay are as above dependent not just on the materials you use, but the method of animation you choose, as well as even the degree of craftsmanship in the sculpture.

[unseenmage]

That doesn't seem to be the case in 3.5, so it's no surprise that PF doesn't have that option either. At least, I don't see anything about puddles or piles anywhere in the PHB or MM1.

As for a sculpture - the costs you pay are as above dependent not just on the materials you use, but the method of animation you choose, as well as even the degree of craftsmanship in the sculpture.

Q278
How does the quality of a Craft Sculpture check reflect on the price of the resultant sculpture?
If a section of rubble is sculpted to look innocuous and inert when it is in fact an animated object how does the quality of the Craft Sculpture check reflect on this if at all?

Am trying to wrap my head around what sort of skill penalties/bonuses these Animated Objects will or won't have if I try to use them as I'm imagining. Does their construction or material affect their ability to be disguised or hide at all?

[Psyren]

Q278
How does the quality of a Craft Sculpture check reflect on the price of the resultant sculpture?
If a section of rubble is sculpted to look innocuous and inert when it is in fact an animated object how does the quality of the Craft Sculpture check reflect on this if at all?

Am trying to wrap my head around what sort of skill penalties/bonuses these Animated Objects will or won't have if I try to use them as I'm imagining. Does their construction or material affect their ability to be disguised or hide at all?

A278: I would argue "not much" since if you're sculpting it to be unobtrusive you probably want it to look as shoddy and indistinct as you can get away with high craftsmanship would just attract notice, whereas a nondescript lump that is vaguely hand-shaped wouldn't. So the result of the check would be negligible at best. For its base stats, here is the small AO entry - it would get a base of +2 to its stealth check (1 from size and 1 from dex.)

As far as hiding it - keeping in mind that mindless creatures use ability checks rather than skills, having it blend in with its environment would count as a circumstance bonus, which falls under the GM's purview. It sounds like you're leaving this somewhere for players to find, which would make you the GM, right?

[unseenmage]

A278: I would argue "not much" since if you're sculpting it to be unobtrusive you probably want it to look as shoddy and indistinct as you can get away with high craftsmanship would just attract notice, whereas a nondescript lump that is vaguely hand-shaped wouldn't. So the result of the check would be negligible at best. For its base stats, here is the small AO entry - it would get a base of +2 to its stealth check (1 from size and 1 from dex.)

As far as hiding it - keeping in mind that mindless creatures use ability checks rather than skills, having it blend in with its environment would count as a circumstance bonus, which falls under the GM's purview. It sounds like you're leaving this somewhere for players to find, which would make you the GM, right?

Q278 clarification

Oh no, this is for me as a player. Though the idea is good enough that I'll certainly be using it as GM at some point too. A tag team of several of these critters could give a party quite the scare. Especially with extra CP attached for additional reach and grab and pull...

[Psyren]

Gotcha. Even so, how well the environment helps something hide falls under GM purview as stated above - this is one of the subjective areas of the game for which there is no defined bonus. All the rules will tell you is how well it can hide based on its stats rather than its surroundings.

In addition, increasing a creature's CR falls under GM purview too, which is unfortunately what happens if you try to add more CP to an animated object than it gets per the table.

[Tanuki Tales]

Q279

Let's say that Race X has a racial trait that says, "Skill Y is always a class skill."

Race X then takes a level in Class Z and it gives an ability that says, "Select one of Class Z's class skills. The character gains a competence bonus when using it."

Skill Y is not on the class skill list for Class Z.

Can that class ability be applied to Skill Y because of Race X's racial trait?

[Spore]

A279 No because your definition refers to the class skills of said class not to the class skills of said character.

[Yanisa]

Playing Devil's Advocate here

Q279 Addition
So if a Race gives a Class Skill, to what Class does that Skill belong?

By definition Class Skills belong to a class.

In addition, each class has a number of favored skills, called class skills. It is easier for your character to become more proficient in these skills, as they represent part of his professional training and constant practice. You gain a +3 bonus on all class skills that you put ranks into. If you have more than one class and both grant you a class skill bonus, these bonuses do not stack.

The number of skill ranks you gain when taking a level in one of the base classes is shown on Table: Skill Ranks. Humans gain 1 additional skill rank per class level. Characters who take a level in a favored class have the option of gaining 1 additional skill rank or an additional hit point . If you select a level in a new class, all of its class skills are automatically added to your list of class skills, and you gain a +3 bonus on these skills if you have ranks in them.

[Yanisa]

And now I end up answering my own questions, what a night of sleep does to the brain.
A279 Addendum
In 3.5 we had a very strict system of Class Skills ans Cross-Class Skills (which Pathfinder dumped). In this system, when multiclassing, Class Skills stopped being Class Skills, meaning you couldn't invest in them any more. In this scenario when a race or feat or whatnot allowed a skill to become a Class Skill, it mean that skill was on every class list that character would take, or atleast I suspect that is the intend, not every feat or source of class skills state it, but a couple of.

For example: The Apprentice Feat in DMG II tells us that

Upon becoming an apprentice, a character immediately gains two new class skills and two bonus skill points to spend on these class skills.

These new class skills are added to the class skill list for any character class or prestige class she gains.

This is also stated by Martial Study (Tome of Battle), and implied by City Slicker.

There are also feats, such as Draconic heritage (Races of the Dragon) and Greensinger initiate (Ebborron Campaign setting), that call out a class to which the Class Skills belong.

So the conclusion in simple in 3.5, unless states otherwise, a Class Skill gets added to all Classes the character, future and present, possesses.

Following that same logic in Pathfinder leads to the answer of the question to: Yes, when a Race adds a Class Skill, it's added to the Class List of all Classes. If a Class Feature calls out to select a skill from that Class, the Racial Class Skill is in that list of Class Skills.
But even then you can debate the answer, Sporregg still hits a good point and what doesn't help this answer that is is RAI based on how 3.5 worked. So I end on two answers, and in the end it seems a DM call, because the term "Class Skill" is a poorly defined term in Pathfinder, especially when it comes from non-class sources.

[Togath]

Q280:
Is a Snapleaf expended when used?

[Spore]

A279 reasoning My ruling comes from simple grammatic of the ruling sentence. I guess you could rule it either way. And if balancing is a reason then more power to you for supporting multiclassing since PF disincentivises this anyway.

A280 The price suggests that it is destroyed after the usage. An item with unlimited charges (per day) and two spells triggered by an immediate action would be vastly more expensive.

[Yanisa]

A280 Sources
Here's SKR confirming it's supposed to be a consumable.
Also see the original writing here, where it more clearly stated it was a consumable.

[Sir Pippin Boyd]

Q281:

The new pathfinder hybrid class Warpriest lists various bonuses that can be "granted to an ally". Can the warpriest be considered his own ally for granting these blessings to himself?

[Yanisa]

A281
General rule says yes, and there is nothing in the class or wording that overwrites the general rule.

Also see the FAQ entry here

Ally: Do you count as your own ally?

You count as your own ally unless otherwise stated or if doing so would make no sense or be impossible. Thus, "your allies" almost always means the same as "you and your allies."

[Fenryr]

Q282.

A creature has Amulet of Mighty Fists with Flaming and no +1. Then this creature attacks an incorporeal enemy. What happens to the d6 of fire? Does it hits?

[Psyren]

Q282.

A creature has Amulet of Mighty Fists with Flaming and no +1. Then this creature attacks an incorporeal enemy. What happens to the d6 of fire? Does it hits?

A282: Your fist (or claw, etc.) strikes as a magic weapon even without the +1, and therefore has a 50% chance of damaging the creature, just like any other (non ghost touch) magic weapon does. Assuming you connect, you will do your regular fist damage (modified by ability score as normal) +1d6 fire.

[Yanisa]

A282 Correction
In pathfinder you deal half damage against an incorporeal with a magic weapon, but a successful attack (aka an attack that beats the AC) always hits (unlike 3.5).

So its (regular damage + 1d6 fire) divided by two per successful hit.

[Spore]

Q283 Would you half any damage on its own or add it together and then half it? For a flurrying monk with a flaming corrosive amulet of mighty fists there is a potential up to 2 damage to be lost per attack.

[Yanisa]

Pffft, 2 damage...!

A283
I would add all the damage from a single successful attack together and then half it. It's simpler and there aren't any hard rules for it either way.

Also, from the Flaming Property

Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire that deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given.

This implies the damage is part of the normal damage, rather then a separate source. Best I got.

[Dragon-Rider]

A275: Yes, if they have less than total concealment they will no longer be protected from your sneak attacks. (Keep in mind you can do the same thing many levels earlier by using the Shadow Strike feat instead.)

Q274B or possibly Q284: Does Shadow Strike really do the same thing? The feat description does not state anything about removing the miss chance. It just says that it allows your character to deal precision damage to creatures with concealment (but not total concealment). To me, that sounds like your character would still have to roll the miss chance, but if he/she scores a hit, it counts as a sneak attack (or another attack that deals precision damage). Am I interpreting that incorrectly?

[T.G. Oskar]

Q285

The Empyreal Knight archetype for the Paladin states that you replace Lay on Hands and Channel Positive Energy for the Celestial Ally class feature, which allows using Summon Monster I as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier, increasing in potency every two levels of Paladin after its fourth (SMII at 6th level, SMIII at 8th level, up to SMIX at 20th level; in essence, the progression goes 2x + 2, where X is the spell level of Summon Monster), but limited only to Celestial creatures, Angels and Archons. If the Paladin also took the Summon Good Monsters feat (which expands the list of creatures that can be summoned with each Summon Monster), does this override the limitation on the Celestial Ally class feature? Note that the Summon Monster spell has descriptors of its own, which causes conflict with Chaotic Good creatures (it makes the Summon Monster have the [chaotic] descriptor), so focus for the most part on the LG or NG creatures.

[Psyren]

A284: Interesting, it seems you do still have to roll the miss chance even though you get precision damage on a hit. Still, it does come online much earlier than Improved Blind Fight regardless. I'm curious about this and I'll see if there's a chance of getting a FAQ on it.

A285: I would say they don't interact; you're not actually casting summon monster, you are casting "Celestial Ally" - a SLA that functions like summon monster, except for several limitations.

[Dude_Here]

Q 286

If multiple mobs are subjected to hypnotic pattern or hypnotism will it be broken if
one of there compatriots are attacked?

[Yanisa]

A286
Yes, both spells give the Fascinated Condition which is broken by "any obvious threat". Your friends being attacked is a very obvious threat and most likely also falls into the examples given (drawing a weapon, casting a spell or aiming a ranged weapon).

[AttilaTheGeek]

Q 289

When a void-touched sorcerer casts an evocation spell, is the target allowed a save to not be silenced? The bloodline says "Silenced (as silence) for one round" and doesn't mention a save, but the spell Silence does have a save.

[Larsen]

A 289
The target is only affected by the silence if it has already failed a save against the evocation spell. There is no additional save to make.

It also means that a spell with "save: no" can't silence the target.