Simple Q&A for Pathfinder 3: Find With a Vengeance

[Kurald Galain]

Q375

The spell Stone Shield is an immediate action that effectively adds +4 to your AC against one attack. Are there rules on when you have to declare this? In particular, can you use it retroactively to turn a hit into a miss? (e.g. I normally have AC 20; the DM says "the troll hits AC 22"; I then decide to cast Stone Shield turning my AC into 24, making the troll miss). There are several similar "immediate" spells, such as Saving Finale, or abilities like the Saving Shield feat.

I haven't been able to find RAW on the matter, but there seems to be little point to the spell otherwise. Is there a firm rule about this or is it up to the DM?

[Callum]

A366 [contention]

Yes. ("Feats and abilities that affect short swords...")

I hope I'm not being dense, but I can't see how that answers the question. The OP was asking whether the word "abilities" in that very bit of text was intended to include effects from spells, and quoting the same bit of text doesn't seem to me to explain one way or the other...

[Callum]

A375

The only rules explicitly addressing the timing of the spell are those associated with immediate actions. However, the spell does not confer any ability to turn back time, nor does it state that any action is to be redone (unlike with saving finale, where it specifies that the saving throw is rerolled). Therefore, it cannot "turn a hit into a miss".

As a non-RAW aside, the way the spell is most useful is if you cast it after being targeted by an attack, but before the outcome of that attack has been resolved. Having GM'd a PC with saving shield, and another with similar 3.5E spells, I just made sure I gave the players enough of a window to respond.

[Kurald Galain]

A375

The only rules explicitly addressing the timing of the spell are those associated with immediate actions. However, the spell does not confer any ability to turn back time, nor does it state that any action is to be redone (unlike with saving finale, where it specifies that the saving throw is rerolled). Therefore, it cannot "turn a hit into a miss".

Do you have a source on that? Or is that simply the way you, personally, would rule it?

As a non-RAW aside, the way the spell is most useful is if you cast it after being targeted by an attack, but before the outcome of that attack has been resolved. Having GM'd a PC with saving shield, and another with similar 3.5E spells, I just made sure I gave the players enough of a window to respond.

An important difference is that Saving Shield can be used at will, whereas Stone Shield costs a spell slot. The way you rule it would give the spell an 80% chance to do absolutely nothing, which means that it's simply not worth memorizing.

[Psyren]

A366 [contention]



I hope I'm not being dense, but I can't see how that answers the question. The OP was asking whether the word "abilities" in that very bit of text was intended to include effects from spells, and quoting the same bit of text doesn't seem to me to explain one way or the other...

Spells are abilities. I'm really not sure how you could parse that any differently, save to be as pedantic as it is possible to be with language.

Q375

The spell Stone Shield is an immediate action that effectively adds +4 to your AC against one attack. Are there rules on when you have to declare this? In particular, can you use it retroactively to turn a hit into a miss? (e.g. I normally have AC 20; the DM says "the troll hits AC 22"; I then decide to cast Stone Shield turning my AC into 24, making the troll miss). There are several similar "immediate" spells, such as Saving Finale, or abilities like the Saving Shield feat.

I haven't been able to find RAW on the matter, but there seems to be little point to the spell otherwise. Is there a firm rule about this or is it up to the DM?

Your example with the troll is exactly how it works. The DM declares his total to-hit number and you can change your AC in response.

[Callum]

Do you have a source on that? Or is that simply the way you, personally, would rule it?

The source is the spell's text itself - there's nothing in it that suggests you can retroactively change something that's happened. When you finish casting the spell, the stone shield appears, granting you cover against a single opponent from that point in time until the beginning of your next turn. If you've already been hit (or burned, or whatever) at the time you cast the spell, the stone shield is obviously not going to do you any good. (Note that a GM is under no obligation to announce the total of an opponent's attack roll.)

I'd be happy to discuss the value of the spell in a separate thread, if you'd like to start one.

[Psyren]

(Note that a GM is under no obligation to announce the total of an opponent's attack roll.)

How exactly would this even work? Would the GM just roll behind the screen, look up and say, "I hit you?" Even if you keep every player's AC in your head at all times, the sheer number of buffs and situational modifiers, like flanking and cover and higher ground that can apply during a given combat make this extremely impractical.

By all means make this separate thread, I have no trouble hashing this out.

[Kurald Galain]

By all means make this separate thread, I have no trouble hashing this out.

Very well.

[HMS Invincible]

Q376. Srd describes a dive attack which looks similar to a charge attack except it deals double damage. Can you charge in the air? Is dive a charge? Aka triggers feats and stuff that refer to a charge?

[Spore]

Q377 If you prepare a standard Mutagen and an Infused Mutagen (with different stats) can you access both via the Mutate ability choosing which one you'd use?

[Psyren]

A376 clarification: This looks like a 3.5 rule, and I can't seem to find it in PF anywhere. Do you (or anyone else) have a link?

A377: Are you referring to the Master Chymist's "mutate" ability? That one specifically states that drinking and then mutating won't stack, or drinking twice or any other number of combinations. The last one you do will always overwrite the others.

[Spore]

A377 addendum Yes, I talk about the Master Chymist. I am not talking about stacking but if I choose an Intelligence Cognatogen and a Strength Mutagen I could choose which one to use?

[HMS Invincible]

A376 clarification: This looks like a 3.5 rule, and I can't seem to find it in PF anywhere. Do you (or anyone else) have a link?

A377: Are you referring to the Master Chymist's "mutate" ability? That one specifically states that drinking and then mutating won't stack, or drinking twice or any other number of combinations. The last one you do will always overwrite the others.

My apologies, I posted in the wrong thread.

[Psyren]

A377 addendum: Yes, you can "choose" in the sense that whichever one you use last will take precedence, and that you can keep a mutagen and your mutate ability both ready to use. (Though do note that you can mutate involuntarily if you fail a fort save or get critically hit.)

[Occasional Sage]

Q379
How does Invisibility Sphere work with tactical movement? It seems to need significant houseruling to work as intended.

[Psyren]

A379: Ready actions to move together. It's meant to be a "get past this checkpoint" type spell, or at most a "reposition for surprise attack" spell - offensive tactics are not well-suited for it.

[aza9999]

Q380 Core book says if you succeed at a saving throw on something with no obvious effect you get a sense of some hostile force or a tingle but don't know where it comes from. What about when you fail a saving throw? Specifically i'm interested in the witch hexes misfortune and evil eye, whether you just feel clumsy or you know someone made you clumsy.

[Togath]

Q381
Does a kitsune need to meet the prerequisites for fox shape, or can she ignore them?

Q382
Does a skinwalker count as it's parent race for purposes of meeting prerequisites on feats, archetypes, and traits, as well as for abilities like favoured enemy or a bane weapon?(a human skinwalker being counted as human, an elf skinwalker as an elf, etc)

[Psyren]

A380: Generally, unless something dramatic happens as a result or the effect specifies otherwise, you're not aware of it if you failed a save. There are only rules for detecting a successful one. Unfortunately, there's a lot of metagaming and DM adjudication required here (such as effects like a Bard's Saving Finale).

A381: I assume you're referring to the odd "Special:" line? That line does not exist in the actual sourcebook (Dragon Empires Primer) and thus you must meet the prereqs. I'm not sure why the PFSRD wrote it that way.

A382: No, they only resemble the parent race. They do not get any racial traits that are not listed, save for size (e.g. in the case of Small skinwalkers.) The sidebar even notes the example of a half-orc skinwalker who does not gain the Weapon Familiarity of his parent race.

[Drackstin]

Q383

If i use the spell "Forceful Strike" do i gain the benefit from feats that add to bull rush such as improved bull rush, Merciless rush, Spiked Destroyer, Squash Flat, Greater bull rush?


Q384

How dose the spell "Moment of Greatness" work with rage? would it add double my STR bonus for one roll?

[Psyren]

A383: Yes - "a combat maneuver check to resolve a bull rush" will incorporate all the normal bonuses (e.g. strength and feats) that go into resolving a bull rush. The caster level bonus is not typed, so it then gets added onto all the rest.

A384: Yes - you would double any single morale bonus affecting you, which for rage can include the morale bonus to your Str.

[Kurald Galain]

Q385 (repost since it got overlooked) I've recently heard the argument that creatures with a fly speed, if they're prone, can get up without provoking an opportunity attack, since they're "flying away" rather than "standing up". Can anyone please point to RAW that confirms or denies this?

[Spore]

A385 They still leave your adjacent square (or cube) and provoke as normal for the movement. I am also pretty unsure if you can do what you described with wings instead of magical flight.

[Rickshaw]

Q386 Can you make a trip attempt as an attack of opportunity?

Q387 When you full attack can you switch between ranged and melee?

Q388 Through the various methods of wielding oversized weapons (powerful build, magic items, etc,) would wielding an oversized reach weapon grant additional reach? I.e. A 15" reach with a glaive

Also is this an appropriate place to ask questions regarding path of war?

[Psyren]

A386: Yes - trips can replace any melee attack including an AoO.

A387: Generally yes, however the logistics of doing so can be tricky (e.g. you might need Quick Draw, and if your melee involves natural weapons on the same limbs holding your ranged weapon then this can cause problems.) What specific combination did you have in mind?

A388: No. Your reach is what it is, regardless of weapon size; generally, only changing your own size will affect your reach (and of course, whether the weapon has the reach property, which spells out how it interacts with you own reach.)

Also is this an appropriate place to ask questions regarding path of war?

I personally have no problems with it, we've answered psionics questions up here before Though the folks in the actual PoW thread might be more knowledgeable, plus the designers post there. Your call really.

[Rickshaw]

I was thinking in regards to thrown ammunition, pilums in particular (pili?) and a fauchard, since you can let go of a two handed weapon with one hand as a free action.

And yay PoW!


Q389 Can you join more than one martial tradition?

Q390 the Snapping turtle maneuver looks like a godsend for shield champion brawlers - it states you get a free attack whenever you make a shield bash. flurry of blows with shield bashes, then get a ton of bonus attacks. Surely that's not how it's meant to work?

Q391 if you trip someone with an attack of opportunity and have the greater trip feat, do they provoke a further attack?

[Psyren]

A389: Nothing is physically preventing you but based on the fluff of exclusivity, as well as the complexity this might entail for the crunch, I can't imagine many DMs would be thrilled about you wanting to do this. I could potentially see it for a double-agent character of some kind.

A390 clarification: Which Snapping Turtle maneuver do you mean? I see the stance and Rush, neither of which give a free attack.

A391: Yes, provided you have the additional AoOs to take advantage of this occurrence (i.e. Combat Reflexes or similar.)

[Drackstin]

Q392

for blessings such as destruction that stat you can give a +1 moral bonus = to half your level, but it dose not say warpriest level, so do all multiclasses count for this total also?

[Psyren]

A392: No. In general, if a class feature or class ability refers to "level," it refers to the level in the class that gave you access to that class feature or ability. Blessings are a Warpriest class feature, thus they refer only to Warpriest level when they say "level" unless specifically stated otherwise.

Basically, a class feature or ability has to specifically say "character level" in order to let you count everything.

[Drackstin]

Q393

Can a 1 handed weapon that can gain finesse count as a light weapon when using it in your off hand for two weapon fighting, i can't find the ruling but i think it can.