El Goonish Shive II - I stand by my ridiculous comic

[Lizard Lord]

Exactamundo! Though I'm guessing that mr no-mark was mr no-ah.

I'm not so sure, because he otherwise wouldn't actually know if Noah is marked or not.


Edit: Ninja'd

[Calemyr]

It could be that he knows two people who have a mark and then saw Noah, who triggers his senses in a very different way by virtue of being of Uryom origin rather than actually having magic.

Of course, Ellen and Nanase would be full-on mages as well, so either one would provide the proper contrast.

Still, quite a good theory on his logic. It is pretty much the minimal data set you'd need to be able to derive any patterns from.

[Lissou]

Justin doesn't know that Luke has seen Noah, so his deduction makes sense. My guess is that Luke has seen at least one unmarked magic user who was NOT Noah, and was confirmed not to have a mark. But Luke might have just assumed that the aura being so different meant it wasn't due to a mark, who knows.

[Lizard Lord]

Ya'know, if Luke meets Susan it may help the group come to the realization that Justin used to have a mark but was then awakened.

[Qwertystop]

Personally, I'm hoping that the Pizza Guys (Luke's group) includes Catalina and Rhoda and Dex, just for the humor of everyone knowing each other and hiding their magic.

[Rater202]

Why call them "Pizza guys"? Did I miss something?

[Douglas]

Why call them "Pizza guys"? Did I miss something?

Last panel.

[The Mormegil]

Well, whoever is Luke's other marked friend, it's either a heterosexual male or a gay female (based on the reaction to learning Justin's coworker was a she). That means Catalina is possible, but the color code isn't quite right. So I guess either Shive wants to trick us, or it's someone else (another one of the marks in the first page of squirrel prophet).

[Qwertystop]

Well, whoever is Luke's other marked friend, it's either a heterosexual male or a gay female (based on the reaction to learning Justin's coworker was a she). That means Catalina is possible, but the color code isn't quite right. So I guess either Shive wants to trick us, or it's someone else (another one of the marks in the first page of squirrel prophet).

What color code?

[Radar]

What color code?

Speach baloons here and the subsequent page.

[golentan]

Aww, blushy Luke is so cute!

[Rater202]

Aww, blushy Luke is so cute!

Yes. He is.

Blushy attractive persons tend to be cute in general, and I'm assuming that Luke is intended to be attractive.

[The Mormegil]

I was about to go on a rampage about how Tedd is being so damn stupid right now, but the last panel is a surprise. It makes perfect sense in retrospect, and I like it. So... good job keeping us from getting information I guess?

[Rater202]

This was sort of implied in the NP story. Tedd really didn't want to talk about her abilities when he accidentally whent Mana reader on Susan, and her reaction about how totally unsurprising Tedd's spell was tells me that he only told her "It lets me turn into a girl and back at will" and not "it's permanent if I identify as female at the time".

I'm kind of wondering if "Not wanting to admit to relatives that you're not what society considers normal when it comes to gender and/or sexuality, even if it's the best possible option" runs in the family?

[Adaon Nightwind]

I'm kind of wondering if "Not wanting to admit to relatives that you're not what society considers normal when it comes to gender and/or sexuality, even if it's the best possible option" runs in the family?

Mmh. Insofar as both, Ted in his early school life and Nanase at her home, have been quite heavily indoctrinated into what, in their experience, society considers "normal and accepted behavior" with any deviations from it in danger of being punished, i would think it is to be expected. We can be hurt most by those closest to us, and since we see our parents as "the" benchmark when it cames to fitting into society, i do think it is for both a case of not stepping outside of boundaries in the eyes of their parents. Wether those boundaries exist or will be enforced - see the reaction of Nanase's Mom so far - is secondary as long as they exist in the mind of Ted and Nanase.

[Radar]

It might not be as strickt with Tedd and his dad as it was with Nanase and her mother (and even that went not as destructively as Nanase feared). The thing is, this is still the same day Tedd realised that he isn't some freak of nature (maybe a bit exagerated, but this strip does point to some serious issues Tedd had), since there are many people with similar take on gender identity. And it's the same day he got a magic mark and started to understand his other magical abilities. Tedd has a lot to take in and needs time. I think he will talk with his dad, but not before sorting it all out. I think he still has some problems with accepting his gender identity and even if not, he still is very vunlerable.

[The Mormegil]

I was thinking of this comic in particular.

[Radar]

I was thinking of this comic in particular.

Which shows that Tedd is somewhat insecure and that his (or hers) dad is fairly mellow about all the sex changing shenanigans even if not fully ok with it. It almost seems as if Mr. Verres was a bit resigned, when it comes to all the hijinks caused by Tedd. At any rate better choice of relevant strip then mine.

Come to think of it, it isn't uncommon to experience more anxiety when saying delicate truth to someone you have stronger bonds with.

[golentan]

I was thinking of this comic in particular.

And Dan makes the same reference along with some others, which I think officially makes Elliot and Ellen's parents the coolest in the comic so far (except maybe Mr. Raven to Noah). Mr. Tolkiberry is pressuring Justin to sleep with girls, Susan's parents (I'm not sure about names given the split) did such a number on her head vis a vis gender issues, Mr. Verres has been pressuring Tedd on cutting back or not doing "girl time," Mrs. Kitsune is way too tiger mom, Grace's parents treated her as a science experiment (though I'm not sure that they had other options given the other folks at the lab), and we don't know enough about the Brown Family to make any judgment calls there unless I'm misremembering. The Dunkels are if anything too laid back, but given how the twins turned out it's hard to say that their relentless bland faced support and refusal to take away dessert as a punishment has been a bad thing.

[theNater]

And Dan makes the same reference along with some others, which I think officially makes Elliot and Ellen's parents the coolest in the comic so far (except maybe Mr. Raven to Noah). Mr. Tolkiberry is pressuring Justin to sleep with girls, Susan's parents (I'm not sure about names given the split) did such a number on her head vis a vis gender issues, Mr. Verres has been pressuring Tedd on cutting back or not doing "girl time," Mrs. Kitsune is way too tiger mom, Grace's parents treated her as a science experiment (though I'm not sure that they had other options given the other folks at the lab), and we don't know enough about the Brown Family to make any judgment calls there unless I'm misremembering. The Dunkels are if anything too laid back, but given how the twins turned out it's hard to say that their relentless bland faced support and refusal to take away dessert as a punishment has been a bad thing.

Elliot, at least, is actively afraid of his own emotions. That comes with challenges of its own. I'm not gonna say it's worse than, say, the pressure Nanase's under from her mother, but seeing as how that pressure has resulted in Nanase having a vast array of skills, I'm hesitant to call it better, either. It's just different, and that's okay.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Elliot, at least, is actively afraid of his own emotions. That comes with challenges of its own. I'm not gonna say it's worse than, say, the pressure Nanase's under from her mother, but seeing as how that pressure has resulted in Nanase having a vast array of skills, I'm hesitant to call it better, either. It's just different, and that's okay.

I'd say that Elliot is afraid of his emotions not because of his parents rearing but because of the circumstances of his parentage. Dominant or passive, the fact is that they had him too early, and Elliot know this. IMnpHO his parents have gone out of their way to be great parents, but I'm sure that his mom's regrets (exemplified in her reaction to suddenly getting a daughter) must have shined through here and there.

(Also, I'd add: as someone whose career path depends on the vast array of skills acquired from an expensive education, I can say that Nanase's mother takes it well too far, even before factoring in the ultimate objective that Nanase must become a housewife. Skills are nice, but they are not the be-all and end-all)

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Re Tedd: leaving closets is scary. Today's extra panels drive home that dad is worried about the transformations. I think that Mr. Verres would happily embrace his genderfluid scion if the concept was explained to him with graphs and enough words, but I can also see why Tedd would be terrified to try. Mr. Verres is essentially a jaded cop. He has seen the worst of the worst in his work, while not too many of the very best (Elliot being one of the few exceptions), so he is naturally reluctant to accept that things outside the norm can be good: in his experience, they are not (because he has mostly dealt with power hungry people with power of the magical variety, and not the happy people that don't abuse magic and thus don't cross paths with him). But Tedd is comprehensively afraid that his dad's fear of the rare might mean rejection of what Tedd is (I mean, I don't think he's right to be afraid, but I think it is realistic to be afraid, if that makes sense)

Grey Wolf

[golentan]

Elliot, at least, is actively afraid of his own emotions. That comes with challenges of its own. I'm not gonna say it's worse than, say, the pressure Nanase's under from her mother, but seeing as how that pressure has resulted in Nanase having a vast array of skills, I'm hesitant to call it better, either. It's just different, and that's okay.

Elliot doesn't seem to be maladjusted about it though, he recognizes he's aggressive and channels it into sports and helping people who can't help themselves, rather than repressing it completely at most times(like Noah).

Whereas Nanase can't trust her own mom with most of the important things in her life and is actively if quietly rebelling because she feels stifled, and has spent her whole life being told that not only does she have to build those skills (on pain of punishment) but that she was expected to then basically do nothing meaningful with them and become a housewife. And no backtalk (again on pain of punishment).

It's the difference between a greenhouse and a pressure cooker in my mind. Both involve lots of warmth and are intended to result in an end product that's worthwhile. But Ellen and Elliot are promoted to grow in the ways they find meaningful and supported in whatever that might be, and the end product is supposed to be alive and flourishing, while Nanase is put under pressure to the point that if she starts to crack up there's a decent chance she'll explode, and the end product is intended to be perfect and sterile with no unwanted ingredients.

[theNater]

But Ellen and Elliot are promoted to grow in the ways they find meaningful and supported in whatever that might be, and the end product is supposed to be alive and flourishing, while Nanase is put under pressure to the point that if she starts to crack up there's a decent chance she'll explode...

There's a lot to unpack in your post, and I'm way too tired to do it all now, but I am compelled to say right now that one of those three has already exploded, and it was Ellen, not Nanase.

[Yuki Akuma]

Ellen's explosion was more due to her screwed up self-identity and the disconnect between how people keep treating her and how she feels she should be treated. Her parents may have unwittingly hurt her in that regard, but it was mostly out of their control.

The Dunkels are still awesome parents regardless.

[golentan]

There's a lot to unpack in your post, and I'm way too tired to do it all now, but I am compelled to say right now that one of those three has already exploded, and it was Ellen, not Nanase.

What, you mean with the Sister arc? C'mon, the fear of impending death and the shock of coming into existence would be enough to make anyone freak out a little. She thought that Elliot had (albeit accidentally) condemned her to a freakishly short life in exchange for his own ease in dealing with his transformation and tried to get him in trouble.

And sucked at it. She managed kinda creepy and rebellious, but she couldn't bring herself to hurt anyone even through failure to act against the giant fire-breathing monster attack...

[Rater202]

Ellen exploded minutes after she was born-coming into existence with memories that aren't yours and that you know aren't yours is a traumatic experiance, and she did think she was going to die in less than a month.

Extreme outside circumstances and all that.

And it seems my prediction was accurate-Tedd's happy about his discovery-that he's not a lone freak and that there is a name for it, but at the same time is terrified to leave the safety of a closet he didn't even he was in.

[Qwertystop]

Okay, panel 4 Tedd looks very much like Nanase.

[golentan]

Okay, panel 4 Tedd looks very much like Nanase.

What, you're saying he's ugly? Yeah, he really does, especially with the swattable hairstyle. They're both so adorable!

[Rater202]

Nanase looks an awful lot like Noriko, at least according to Not-Tengu.

Tedd also supposedly resembles his mother.

Two people who resemble a third looking like each other, especially when they are related, is not unlikely.

Tedd also likes to be "hot" when female, which by Tedd's(and Dan's) standards means "fit body with large but not overly large bust" which is Nanase is.

Same body type and hairstyle on top of an already similar face? I'd be surprised if Female Tedd didn't look like Nanase.

[The Mormegil]

Dan used the panel I remembered. Got it in one! :D

Also, the Dunkels are the best parents of any fiction I've ever read, even though I hate Elliot. They're just awesome.