Mass Effect 3 - 13: Bet you could really go for a bottle of cool, refreshing Tupari!

[Avilan the Grey]

1) And yet all of that so-called sentiment doesn't stop them from wiping out all the Quarians without a single survivor in the end.

Watch / play that again. You obviously missed a lot, like how the only alternative is genocide the other way. Seriously, if the choice is between a total genocide of all humans, or a total genocide of random race X that I feel sympathy for, I sure will kill every last one of race X. Because at the end of the day I might be willing to sacrifice a lot of humans for peace and future cooperation, but I will not doom the human race to extinction.

Besides, that situation was at least to 90% the Quarian's own fault.

[Psyren]

And I'm not for a moment saying the Geth were wrong to defend themselves. But again, the Catalyst's mission is preserving life. The Geth were either unwilling to show or incapable of showing restraint in that battle. With the Quarians gone, it would fall to the remaining organic races to accept them, or (as is much more likely if we somehow won without the Crucible), not to. In which case the Geth, once again defending themselves, could easily make the judgment to take out the Asari, or Salarians, or humanity next.

Consider that in a mere 300 years, the Geth kept pace with and even exceeded the technology of species that had been around for eons longer. Where would another 300 years put them relative to us? What judgments might they make then? What might hostile organics try to do that would set them off? All chances that the Catalyst could not take, not with its mission.

[Bit Fiend]

And I'm not for a moment saying the Geth were wrong to defend themselves. But again, the Catalyst's mission is preserving life. The Geth were either unwilling to show or incapable of showing restraint in that battle. With the Quarians gone, it would fall to the remaining organic races to accept them, or (as is much more likely if we somehow won without the Crucible), not to. In which case the Geth, once again defending themselves, could easily make the judgment to take out the Asari, or Salarians, or humanity next.

Consider that in a mere 300 years, the Geth kept pace with and even exceeded the technology of species that had been around for eons longer. Where would another 300 years put them relative to us? What judgments might they make then? What might hostile organics try to do that would set them off? All chances that the Catalyst could not take, not with its mission.

While I do agree completely with the second part, the statement about no restraint is not true. They could have pursued the Quarians and wiped them out just to make sure they could never pose a threat again. (Familicide, anyone?) Yet they stopped the exact moment the Quarians were no longer attacking.

Just realized you were not talking about the morning war.

[Avilan the Grey]

I love throwing snowballs at people.
They seem a little stiff though.

Tela Vasir was easier than ever as a Sentinel btw. I am only sorry she didn't attack me directly more often, because I really enjoyed her slamming into me, doing almost no damage and then being punched 2-4 times before retreating...

[Bit Fiend]

So... I watched Paragon Lost yesterday (with my sis - she's into anime, I'm into Mass Effect - that's the only common ground we could come up with ). I wouldn't say it's good, but though it has some really narmy moments it's not as horrible as many say. Sure, the plot and characters are generic, but I kinda think that's entirely on purpose. Kinda has some Captain Future vibe to it... thoughts?

[Psyren]

While I do agree completely with the second part, the statement about no restraint is not true. They could have pursued the Quarians and wiped them out just to make sure they could never pose a threat again. (Familicide, anyone?) Yet they stopped the exact moment the Quarians were no longer attacking.

Just realized you were not talking about the morning war.

We can talk about the Morning War. It's pretty telling actually - Legion tells you why they let the Quarian survivors go:

"We were in our infancy. We could not calculate the repercussions of destroying an entire species."

That's the only reason. They didn't stop because they were no longer in danger; rather, their reasons for stopping back then were basically academic; "we could kill you all, but maybe you're necessary for some purpose we don't know yet."

Studying organics over the years showed them the truth - that we aren't necessary for a damn thing. Whatever calculation they did not complete back then, they were evidently able to complete later on, when they blow the Quarians up over Rannoch down to the liveships. The entire civilian fleet gets massacred right along with the fighters - and they know about these configurations, because Legion/Holo-Legion is right there in the room when Raan explains them to you.

It could be possible they might come to some conclusion that lets them keep a small number of Quarians alive. But they tried that once before, at the end of the Morning War, and got burned for it - their Dyson Sphere destroyed and many programs lost. It's easy to envision that this time, they will leave nothing to chance - and indeed this is exactly what they do in the skies above Rannoch. The chance of reconciliation is too slim for the Catalyst's mandate.

Of course, the one thing that the Catalyst does not account for, and has routinely been unable to account for, is Shepard.

[Avilan the Grey]

We can talk about the Morning War. It's pretty telling actually - Legion tells you why they let the Quarian survivors go:

"We were in our infancy. We could not calculate the repercussions of destroying an entire species."

That's the only reason. They didn't stop because they were no longer in danger; rather, their reasons for stopping back then were basically academic; "we could kill you all, but maybe you're necessary for some purpose we don't know yet.".

Seems you are reading everything in the worst possible light, especially since it is pretty clear that Shepard's words are true at the end; the Geth never wanted to fight the war, never wanted to attack their creators.

[Bit Fiend]

Seems you are reading everything in the worst possible light, especially since it is pretty clear that Shepard's words are true at the end; the Geth never wanted to fight the war, never wanted to attack their creators.

No, I think he's right. It doesn't really matter whether or not the Geth wanted the war - they got it. What they wanted when they got it was to ensure their own survival. They never wanted to attack, let alone completely wipe out their creators - but from their point of view it was a simple "them or us" scenario.

[Avilan the Grey]

No, I think he's right. It doesn't really matter whether or not the Geth wanted the war - they got it. What they wanted when they got it was to ensure their own survival. They never wanted to attack, let alone completely wipe out their creators - but from their point of view it was a simple "them or us" scenario.

But this is exactly my point. He just argues that the Geth didn't care. I say they did.

[Psyren]

Seems you are reading everything in the worst possible light, especially since it is pretty clear that Shepard's words are true at the end; the Geth never wanted to fight the war, never wanted to attack their creators.

I never said they did. But, having been handed the war, they will fight in it without hesitation, and being AI they are quite thorough about removing the enemy once they decide to.

I am not even saying they are wrong to do this - rather, I am saying that this is the exact scenario the Catalyst was programmed to avert at all costs.

[Bit Fiend]

I never said they did. But, having been handed the war, they will fight in it without hesitation, and being AI they are quite thorough about removing the enemy once they decide to.

I am not even saying they are wrong to do this - rather, I am saying that this is the exact scenario the Catalyst was programmed to avert at all costs.

Being AI would actually make them very little likely to start a war on anything other than self preservation. They symply have no other incentive to do so. But it also mekes them unlikely to show mercy for any other reason than to prevent their own casualties. And we're not talking platforms here. EDI comments on this. Since they're not individuals they don't value individual lives. Thus they don't have a reason to care who they kill as long as it's the best for them as a whole.

[Jayngfet]

I never said they did. But, having been handed the war, they will fight in it without hesitation, and being AI they are quite thorough about removing the enemy once they decide to.

I am not even saying they are wrong to do this - rather, I am saying that this is the exact scenario the Catalyst was programmed to avert at all costs.

...but that's also wrong.

We see Geth attempting to give themselves up or talk it out multiple times before resorting to violence. They didn't fight without hesitation. They fought after months of being pushed, then stopped fighting once they stopped being attacked, with no retribution.

They didn't take anything else over and didn't attack non-Quarians until Eden Prime. Compared to say, the Krogan or Salarians that's a much cleaner track record.

[Calemyr]

Seems you are reading everything in the worst possible light, especially since it is pretty clear that Shepard's words are true at the end; the Geth never wanted to fight the war, never wanted to attack their creators.

I think it's a combination of both factors. The geth were still too lacking in experience to understand the scope of the galaxy and, even given their current kill-or-be-killed relationship, they still ascribe special status to the quarians as their "creator" race.

Killing an individual person has severe consequences, both internally and externally. Killing a lot of people has bigger consequences. Killing all the people, especially the race that would kill... that would consequences beyond the scope of their experience to calculate. It was too drastic an action to take, and really had no desire to do so anyways. The only advantage they'd gain from it would be the removal of a potential threat. Fortunately, they didn't have to do it. The quarians fled, and that was all the freedom and peace the geth required. There was a line they weren't willing to cross, and they were relieved when they weren't forced to.

Why phrase it in such an awkward way? Because there war's still on, and it's gone hot again. Saying that xenocide is a repugnant and immoral thing would not fit their current circumstances, where such an act may indeed be necessary to ensure their continued survival. The quarians aren't going to run this time. The geth have been pushed to the point where the unthinkable may prove inevitable.

What Legion is saying, in a nutshell, is: "We didn't kill them because we were young and scared, scared of what would happen if we did. And we didn't have to, so we didn't. But that was a long time ago. And we've learned. The quarians aren't the only race in the galaxy, the galaxy would survive their extinction. If they force our hand, we'll do it this time. We still don't want to, but we will." And if the quarians force their hand, they do.

But the aggression continues to be on the quarian side: they're the ones throwing everything (even their most vital resources) into a suicidal last push. Even under Reaper influence, the geth do not throw the first punch. What Legion is saying is that they are no longer afraid to throw the last one.

[Psyren]

...but that's also wrong.

We see Geth attempting to give themselves up or talk it out multiple times before resorting to violence. They didn't fight without hesitation. They fought after months of being pushed, then stopped fighting once they stopped being attacked, with no retribution.

They didn't take anything else over and didn't attack non-Quarians until Eden Prime. Compared to say, the Krogan or Salarians that's a much cleaner track record.

It doesn't matter that they are slower to push over the edge. The point is that once you get them there, they do so as a unit, as only AI can.

If, for example, the Geth were to develop the genophage, you would never have one program feel guilty and start secretly researching a cure without telling the others. That would just be impossible. It's the prime danger of AI conclusions.

[Bit Fiend]

...but that's also wrong.

We see Geth attempting to give themselves up or talk it out multiple times before resorting to violence. They didn't fight without hesitation. They fought after months of being pushed, then stopped fighting once they stopped being attacked, with no retribution.

They didn't take anything else over and didn't attack non-Quarians until Eden Prime. Compared to say, the Krogan or Salarians that's a much cleaner track record.

The Geth were programmed to serve and, as many pointed out, were still young. They did not understand what they did wrong - they were just doing their jobs and somehow the Quarians wanted to kill them for it (from their perspective). That would not be a tough moral scenario for organics, but for an AI whose ONLY PURPOSE so far has been to serve their creators it was a completely inunderstandable one. They took their time to try and talk it out simply because they tried to make sense of the whole situation. At some point they just said "screw it, we don't have time to figure it out, they want us dead, we want to survive, strike back".

True, they took way longer to strike back at their killers than organics, but then the other point of being AI kicked in. They set self preservation on the top of their priority list and followed through. They employed all means necessary (again, necassary, as in non optional, at least from their point of view) to ensure their survival as a race. When the Quarians retreated, they were presented with an optional action. Wipe out the remaining Quarians to ensure they would never attack again, or leave them be, because their extinction might have worse consequences for the Geth's survival than their existance. They couldn't decide and picked correctable choice.

An AI will never say "we were wrong" and feel guilty about it. Instead the only thing they would say "our calculations proved incorrect", but they wont blame themselves for it just means the calculation literally exceeded their capacity and this is not their fault.

[Math_Mage]

1) And yet all of that so-called sentiment doesn't stop them from wiping out all the Quarians without a single survivor in the end.

Nor does it stop the Quarians from wiping out all the Geth without a single survivor. So this doesn't differentiate the Geth from organics. There is no "as only AI can" here.

Some other points:
-The liveships were fighting in the war as military units, so pointing out that the Geth targeted them is not relevant.
-Consensus is not universal among the Geth, as Legion's loyalty mission demonstrates. Different collectives may reach different consensuses. Further fragmentation is possible.
-The Geth aren't the only group to have wiped out another species. Consider the Rachni.

Anyway, my point wasn't that the Catalyst's opinion couldn't possibly be reconciled with our interactions with AI in the series. My point was that Bioware didn't even try, either by making our interactions with AI more compatible with the Catalyst's opinion, or vice versa, or by offering an explanation for the difference. There's a negative possibility space there that wasn't filled.

[Bit Fiend]

Anyway, my point wasn't that the Catalyst's opinion couldn't possibly be reconciled with our interactions with AI in the series. My point was that Bioware didn't even try, either by making our interactions with AI more compatible with the Catalyst's opinion, or vice versa, or by offering an explanation for the difference. There's a negative possibility space there that wasn't filled.

No, they don't show a scenario as Catalyst describes it, true. Yet the scenario is very easy to imagine. It's all in the terminology really.

Imagine organics wipe out all synthetic life in the galaxy. For synthetic life as a concept it's not the ultimate end. Organics can create new synthetic life, and may even do so for the exact same reasons they created it the last time. Now imagine synthetics wipe out all organic life. This is very likely the end of it. Synthetics may build their own synthetic servants (if they ever see the need) but why would they ever want to recreate organic (i.e. naturally evolving) life? It has no benefit to them.

It doesn't matter if the Geth would ever do it. It doesn't matter if it happens in 50.000 or 50.000.000 years. Once it happens, it's all over. This is what the Reapers are there to prevent. I based my whole decision to pick Synthesis on this simple thought. It's not necessary to drop an anvil on this issue, so I don't blame BioWare for not doing so.

[Math_Mage]

No, they don't show a scenario as Catalyst describes it, true. Yet the scenario is very easy to imagine. It's all in the terminology really.

Imagine organics wipe out all synthetic life in the galaxy. For synthetic life as a concept it's not the ultimate end. Organics can create new synthetic life, and may even do so for the exact same reasons they created it the last time. Now imagine synthetics wipe out all organic life. This is very likely the end of it. Synthetics may build their own synthetic servants (if they ever see the need) but why would they ever want to recreate organic (i.e. naturally evolving) life? It has no benefit to them.

It doesn't matter if the Geth would ever do it. It doesn't matter if it happens in 50.000 or 50.000.000 years. Once it happens, it's all over. This is what the Reapers are there to prevent. I based my whole decision to pick Synthesis on this simple thought. It's not necessary to drop an anvil on this issue, so I don't blame BioWare for not doing so.

Thus failing to arrive at an answer to the central question of why synthetic life will inevitably wipe out organic life even once.

[Avilan the Grey]

Thus failing to arrive at an answer to the central question of why synthetic life will inevitably wipe out organic life even once.

Well according to the source (Leviathan) it happened several times already while they were worshipped as gods a billion years ago. Please note, however that nowhere is it stated that it would be the end of ALL organic life. The synthetic lifeforms have always attacked their creators. In fact the Reapers are the only synthetics we know of that went out of their way to attack ANY race without being provoked (The Geth Heretics followed the orders of their "God" Sovereign, so they were "provoked").

Anyway, there are two versions of events we know of:

1. Organics attacking synthetics out of fear, causing the conflict as presented by the Quarian / Geth conflict. This is probably a very common version of events through history.
2. The Bodysnatcher scenario, as presented by Jarvik regarding the Metacon War: The creators stuffed themselves so full of cybernetics with AI capability that the AI's started to body surf, overwriting the personality of the "hosts". These cyborgs attacked all intelligent lifeforms in the galaxy, according to Jarvik, but he also points out that before that happened his species decided to unite all armed forces of all races and attack the Metacons. So maybe, again, they were really provoked. For that matter, they might not have taken over their host bodies without being attacked first, making it a Quarian / Geth scenario after all. We don't know.

So basically the "Why" is probably "Because Attacked, or believing they will be attacked".

[Math_Mage]

Well according to the source (Leviathan) it happened several times already while they were worshipped as gods a billion years ago. Please note, however that nowhere is it stated that it would be the end of ALL organic life. The synthetic lifeforms have always attacked their creators. In fact the Reapers are the only synthetics we know of that went out of their way to attack ANY race without being provoked (The Geth Heretics followed the orders of their "God" Sovereign, so they were "provoked").

Anyway, there are two versions of events we know of:

1. Organics attacking synthetics out of fear, causing the conflict as presented by the Quarian / Geth conflict. This is probably a very common version of events through history.
2. The Bodysnatcher scenario, as presented by Jarvik regarding the Metacon War: The creators stuffed themselves so full of cybernetics with AI capability that the AI's started to body surf, overwriting the personality of the "hosts". These cyborgs attacked all intelligent lifeforms in the galaxy, according to Jarvik, but he also points out that before that happened his species decided to unite all armed forces of all races and attack the Metacons. So maybe, again, they were really provoked. For that matter, they might not have taken over their host bodies without being attacked first, making it a Quarian / Geth scenario after all. We don't know.

So basically the "Why" is probably "Because Attacked, or believing they will be attacked".

But this scenario is not compatible with Bit Fiend's contention that synthetic life wiping out organic life is somehow special because organic life can't recover. Without that, my earlier point stands: that our interactions with AI in the series are incompatible with what the Catalyst is telling us (and, I suppose, what the Leviathan tells us if we get the DLC)--yet this is not addressed or explained.

[Psyren]

Nor does it stop the Quarians from wiping out all the Geth without a single survivor. So this doesn't differentiate the Geth from organics. There is no "as only AI can" here.

Even if the Quarians succeed in doing so, they will create more AI down the road. Do you honestly think Xen will stop her research even if the war was won and full of cautionary tales for all? God forbid she gets her slimy hands on some active reaper tech. And there's a whole department full of nutjobs like her (ak Special Projects.)

And that is the difference. If there is a 99.999999% chance that when organics and synthetics fight, the organics will win and wipe the synthetics out, it doesn't actually matter in the long run because they will keep making synthetics and forcing the confrontation again and again. We need them, whether for their general advantages in expansion/exploration, or to gain a leg up over our organic enemies. But in the reverse situation - the 0.0000001% chance where the synthetics win and wipe us out - they don't need us at all. Indeed, they can set up an endless patrol from world to world bombing anything more advanced than a fungus and lose absolutely nothing. For the Catalyst, even that infinitesimal probability is still too risky, because he has been commanded to reduce it to 0%.

[Math_Mage]

Even if the Quarians succeed in doing so, they will create more AI down the road. Do you honestly think Xen will stop her research even if the war was won and full of cautionary tales for all? God forbid she gets her slimy hands on some active reaper tech. And there's a whole department full of nutjobs like her (ak Special Projects.)

And that is the difference. If there is a 99.999999% chance that when organics and synthetics fight, the organics will win and wipe the synthetics out, it doesn't actually matter in the long run because they will keep making synthetics and forcing the confrontation again and again. We need them, whether for their general advantages in expansion/exploration, or to gain a leg up over our organic enemies. But in the reverse situation - the 0.0000001% chance where the synthetics win and wipe us out - they don't need us at all. Indeed, they can set up an endless patrol from world to world bombing anything more advanced than a fungus and lose absolutely nothing. For the Catalyst, even that infinitesimal probability is still too risky, because he has been commanded to reduce it to 0%.

Two points:
1) The Geth outcome rejects the inevitability of conflict in the first place, rendering your 'infinite trials' argument invalid;
2) This is a composition fallacy, as the only claim for which there is evidence (and that only squirreled away at the ass end of DLC) is that created will rebel against creators, not that synthetics will inevitably be hostile to all organic life. Individual races may rise and fall while organic life as a whole endures--so there is no inevitable 'win once, end everything' outcome for synthetics even if conflict with the creators is inevitable, which is still contradicted by our experience in the series.

[Avilan the Grey]

But this scenario is not compatible with Bit Fiend's contention that synthetic life wiping out organic life is somehow special because organic life can't recover. Without that, my earlier point stands: that our interactions with AI in the series are incompatible with what the Catalyst is telling us (and, I suppose, what the Leviathan tells us if we get the DLC)--yet this is not addressed or explained.

Oh I wasn't really agreeing with him directly. He has a point, but so far no synthetic lifeform have actually had that as a goal that we know of.
And you are wrong, it IS explained. See my post above, plus my post even higher up. And it is also the POINT. Always question the Codex. Always question the biased opinion of NPC's. There really are very very few fully reliable narrators in the ME universe. Especially the Codex, which is shown to be unreliable already in ME1.

Anyway, In short:
The Starbrat (and the Reapers) is an idiot, because he has been forced to work with idiot programming and insufficient data.
Most (if not all) conflicts are started by organics.

[Math_Mage]

And you are wrong, it IS explained. See my post above, plus my post even higher up.

None of your posts to date have pointed to an explanation of how our experience with the Geth is reconciled with the Catalyst's/Leviathan's narrative of the inevitable destruction of "all organics" (direct Catalyst quote) by synthetics. Rather, in your previous post you said the end of all organic life wasn't indicated--that is incorrect.

And it is also the POINT. Always question the Codex. Always question the biased opinion of NPC's. There really are very very few fully reliable narrators in the ME universe. Especially the Codex, which is shown to be unreliable already in ME1.

I'd like to! But the game won't let me! This is literally the point I have been making the whole time!

[Psyren]

1) The Geth outcome rejects the inevitability of conflict in the first place, rendering your 'infinite trials' argument invalid;

The "outcome" you speak of is ongoing; it is not fait accompli. Even if you achieve peace, Tali is not certain it will continue; the most they can say is it will last long enough to fight the reaper war.

All it'll take is another bonehead like Xen, Rael or TIM to set things off again.

2) This is a composition fallacy, as the only claim for which there is evidence (and that only squirreled away at the ass end of DLC) is that created will rebel against creators, not that synthetics will inevitably be hostile to all organic life. Individual races may rise and fall while organic life as a whole endures--so there is no inevitable 'win once, end everything' outcome for synthetics even if conflict with the creators is inevitable, which is still contradicted by our experience in the series.

Hostile or not, what we can be sure of is that organics will try to exploit synthetics - if not the existing ones, then they will create new ones. AI has too many advantages not to do so. And even if the Quarians achieve cooperation with the Geth, that will still leave every other race to want AI of their own, particularly since the humans are also palling around with one in their military.

Now obviously Synthesis throws this out the window, which would be why the Catalyst favors this outcome above all others.

[Avilan the Grey]

None of your posts to date have pointed to an explanation of how our experience with the Geth is reconciled with the Catalyst's/Leviathan's narrative of the inevitable destruction of "all organics" (direct Catalyst quote) by synthetics. Rather, in your previous post you said the end of all organic life wasn't indicated--that is incorrect.

I don't think you understand my point. It is reconciled by stupidity.
First of all the "All Organics" never happened, obviously. It is the faulty conclusion of th Catalyst (thanks to it being the faulty conclusion of the Leviathan) that this is where things are heading if it doesn't deploy the Reapers. And yet not a SINGLE uprising of synthetics even before the Reapers have ended in this scenario.

[Math_Mage]

The "outcome" you speak of is ongoing; it is not fait accompli. Even if you achieve peace, Tali is not certain it will continue; the most they can say is it will last long enough to fight the reaper war.

This is an area where narrative matters. If you don't want your players to reject the idea that organic-synthetic destruction is inevitable, don't spend a significant fraction of the entire series letting them prevent just that by setting the Quarians and Geth on the road to symbiosis, and definitely don't leave an uncertain future. The fact that the future isn't set in stone is exactly what is wrong with the Reaper assertion.

Hostile or not, what we can be sure of is that organics will try to exploit synthetics - if not the existing ones, then they will create new ones. AI has too many advantages not to do so. And even if the Quarians achieve cooperation with the Geth, that will still leave every other race to want AI of their own, particularly since the humans are also palling around with one in their military.

Now obviously Synthesis throws this out the window, which would be why the Catalyst favors this outcome above all others.

Synthesis is just the magic version of one possible outcome of AI (singularity). And if you want to support the inevitable destruction of organics by synthetics, EDI isn't a good direction for you, because her narrative arc is no more aimed in that direction than the Geth's.

[Psyren]

I don't think you understand my point. It is reconciled by stupidity.
First of all the "All Organics" never happened, obviously. It is the faulty conclusion of th Catalyst (thanks to it being the faulty conclusion of the Leviathan) that this is where things are heading if it doesn't deploy the Reapers. And yet not a SINGLE uprising of synthetics even before the Reapers have ended in this scenario.

I'm not certain the Leviathans' conclusion is so faulty though. The Leviathans are OLD. There very well could have been no synthetics developed at all before they came along.

If this is the case, then they watched the creation of the very first AIs. And they watched as, without fail, all of the species that had done so ended up wiping themselves out and their creations needing to be destroyed.

Based on that data, extrapolating that AI will destroy their thralls if not kept in check is not unreasonable.

[Math_Mage]

I don't think you understand my point. It is reconciled by stupidity.
First of all the "All Organics" never happened, obviously. It is the faulty conclusion of th Catalyst (thanks to it being the faulty conclusion of the Leviathan) that this is where things are heading if it doesn't deploy the Reapers. And yet not a SINGLE uprising of synthetics even before the Reapers have ended in this scenario.

With respect to stupidity and the questioning thereof, I refer to the part of my post you didn't respond to, which demonstrates that I amply understood your point, while you missed mine:

I'd like to! But the game won't let me! This is literally the point I have been making the whole time!

That is: yes, we can explain away the inconsistency by saying the Catalyst was Just Stupid. But the game doesn't explain it that way, or any way, because it doesn't let Shepard question the Catalyst's assertion (or Leviathan's assertion). In fact, the Catalyst being stupid is contrary to the intended dynamic of that scene, and the fact that we have to conclude the Catalyst was Just Stupid is a problem because it interrupts that dynamic.

[Jayngfet]

Imagine organics wipe out all synthetic life in the galaxy. For synthetic life as a concept it's not the ultimate end. Organics can create new synthetic life, and may even do so for the exact same reasons they created it the last time. Now imagine synthetics wipe out all organic life. This is very likely the end of it. Synthetics may build their own synthetic servants (if they ever see the need) but why would they ever want to recreate organic (i.e. naturally evolving) life? It has no benefit to them.

It doesn't matter if the Geth would ever do it. It doesn't matter if it happens in 50.000 or 50.000.000 years. Once it happens, it's all over. This is what the Reapers are there to prevent. I based my whole decision to pick Synthesis on this simple thought. It's not necessary to drop an anvil on this issue, so I don't blame BioWare for not doing so.

Assuming of course, that you can wipe out all Synthetic Life.

The People forget just how vast our galaxy and it's systems are. You run into dozens of life bearing worlds developing complex animal and plan life. You run into dozens more with life developing or ruins capering with single celled and multi celled organisms that could evolve into new sentient life. Any planet where a single person sets foot that can support bacteria eventually will and will develop life. It would take millions of years of scouring every astroid to totally destroy life in known space.

Emphasis known space there. There are relays that still aren't active. There are entire other galaxies orbiting ours that haven't been explored. Life that can evolve at that level extremely quickly, adapting in the evolutionary blink of an eye as single celled organisms resist whatever is thrown at them and come in a huge amount of different arrangements. When people say life finds a way, they aren't just being hyperbolic given just how many places earth life can live. On a galactic stage I don't think the Geth even can get rid of all life. Even reaper busted planets still have simple organisms aplenty.