Belkar's alignment

[dancrilis]

The spell effect implies that the only thing forced is the introspection (which, over a year's length of time, is almost certainly going to happen anyway) and the soul turns good on its own. Sure its based on a belief that souls default to "good" and want to be that way on some level, but hey. Morality as a whole is too complex to adequately simulate in a game (not to mention people aren't likely to be objective about it when writing the rules) so I have no problems with them making that assumption.

I would almost except that except for the year bit.
364 days: still evil and hates you.
364.5 days: still evil and hates you.
364.75 days: still evil and hates you.
365 days: Good now (discounting the .25 for a leap year).

That is not a natural process of considering your life and choices.

Yeah, that sends more like bad fanfic-level writing. I'd full-on stop reading the comic if that happened, because screw consequences, lets let everyone do anything with no backlash because reasons, and also they're all named Mary Sue.

I don't know I can see the funny side - and he would be LG after the spell.
I have my suspicions that this will not happen - but hey if the joke fits.

[Keltest]

I would almost except that except for the year bit.
364 days: still evil and hates you.
364.5 days: still evil and hates you.
364.75 days: still evil and hates you.
365 days: Good now (discounting the .25 for a leap year).

That is not a natural process of considering your life and choices.

I guess its just DM's choice, as the language of the spell does not say "if the gem is broken before a year is up" but instead "if the gem is broken before the soul finds penance." which implies that it could conceivably take less than a year to me.

[Peelee]

I would almost except that except for the year bit.
364 days: still evil and hates you.
364.5 days: still evil and hates you.
364.75 days: still evil and hates you.
365 days: Good now (discounting the .25 for a leap year).

That is not a natural process of considering your life and choices.


I don't know I can see the funny side - and he would be LG after the spell.
I have my suspicions that this will not happen - but hey if the joke fits.

Jokes shouldn't break the story. The Giant clearly cares about characterization over cheap humor. Especially since one if the messages he's going for is "Evil isn't cool, guys," I can't imagine this happening unless a Belkar fanboy hijacks the site and uploads his own version of the strip.

[dancrilis]

Jokes shouldn't break the story. The Giant clearly cares about characterization over cheap humor. Especially since one if the messages he's going for is "Evil isn't cool, guys," I can't imagine this happening unless a Belkar fanboy hijacks the site and uploads his own version of the strip.

Again I would doubt it would occur.

However my initial version was not so much a this happens as a one page joke.

But more a protracted period of character development from Belkar where he saves Durkon from a possibility of eternal enslavement - and might begin to consider some things along the way about how he might have been better.
Not anywhere enough to redeem him or make him a remorseful character crying about his misdeeds - but enough slivers of light that he might be conceivable redeemed.
And than being offered that redemption on a platter by his friend Durkon (the very person he saved).

Essentially his saving Durkon becomes his atonement quest.

The joke would be the Divas as Belkar walks in without bother (the diva holding a whole load of paperwork that they had carted in to discuss).

[Peelee]

Again I would doubt it would occur.

However my initial version was not so much a this happens as a one page joke.

But more a protracted period of character development from Belkar where he saves Durkon from a possibility of eternal enslavement - and might begin to consider some things along the way about how he might have been better.
Not anywhere enough to redeem him or make him a remorseful character crying about his misdeeds - but enough slivers of light that he might be conceivable redeemed.
And than being offered that redemption on a platter by his friend Durkon (the very person he saved).

Essentially his saving Durkon becomes his atonement quest.

The joke would be the Divas as Belkar walks in without bother (the diva holding a whole load of paperwork that they had carted in to discuss).

Ok, but the joke then requires Belkar to be instantly killed, or else he can keep being Belkar and reopen the judicial process, which he would then fail

[Angelalex242]

If Rich did a story with Belkar becoming Lawful Good, it'd involve a Helm of Opposite Alignment. Then, when Belkar's goodness stopped being funny, the effect would be undone.

[Koo Rehtorb]

The spell effect implies that the only thing forced is the introspection (which, over a year's length of time, is almost certainly going to happen anyway) and the soul turns good on its own.

Nope.

After one year, the trapped creature's soul adopts the alignment of the spell's caster (lawful good, chaotic good, or neutral good).

If it was entirely introspection then the creature would tend towards L N or C based on their own beliefs, not on the caster's.

[Nilehus]

I just like to pretend that things that violently change a person's alignment don't exist.

It's a violation of the character, in every sense of the word. I understand the place they could have in a story, but I don't like grimdark stories.

Belkar might reach CN before he dies. Maybe. Right now, though, he's still cruising CE. Durkon may be the instrument of his alignment change, but as Belkar himself said, it's not something that happens overnight.

That would be very cool to read, though.

[Paseo H]

I still say that:

1. His 'vision quest' with Shojo wasn't telling him to become good, it was telling him to become a high functioning sociopath instead of a lower functioning one.

2. It hasn't nearly been long enough to affect a real change to his alignment, even if he was capable.

[...]

Sure, but if Roy's influence is successfully blunting Belkar's evil, he just might make it into Pandemonium because his evil is somewhat suppressed. Mind, Pandemonium is still a lower plane and not at all a fun place to be, but it's theoretically better then the Abyss.
-snip-

Actually, in MotP, which is where I get my planar info from, Pandemonium isn't evil-aligned, only chaos-aligned. Sure, it has evil tendencies, but I wouldn't say it was more Infernal than Ysgard is Celestial. Putting that fact in, Belkar will most likely go there, no matter what letter is on the end of his alignment abbreviation.

[Nilehus]

Agreed. I've heard it as he went from Stupid Evil ("I attack the King!" "OK. His guards slay you on the spot.") to a more standard CE. Which I completely agree with. CE doesn't necessarily mean poor teammate, even CE people can have people they don't want to die.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I still say that:

1. His 'vision quest' with Shojo wasn't telling him to become good, it was telling him to become a high functioning sociopath instead of a lower functioning one.

2. It hasn't nearly been long enough to affect a real change to his alignment, even if he was capable.

For 1.: Absolutely. Shojo was in no way telling him to change for real- he was telling him to fit in better. The question comes from whether or not you think that Belkar is actually changing as far as morality goes. We know he definitely is changing in some ways, due to Mr. Scruffy, but I personally agree with 2. and say there hasn't been enough time.

[Kish]

I just like to pretend that things that violently change a person's alignment don't exist.

And looking at what's happening with Durkon, and Belkar's stated reason for knowing that Vampire Durkon is not Durkon (that a person's alignment cannot abruptly change, basically), I would venture that it appears Rich does, too. And that if someone did stick a Helm of Opposite Alignment on Belkar's head, it would make Belkar a prisoner in his own mind while a Lawful Good entity steered his body around.

[Paseo H]

Admittedly, the existence of such items does kinda make the implacability of pure evil monster villains like Xykon a bit of a non-starter since you know that theoretically someone could ambush him with a Helm and make him become Lawful Good.

Still, and all that being said, couldn't that actually be a way to defeat a villain in a sense?

[Nilehus]

Hm... I like that. May use it as fluff in the future.

I know that particularly traumatic experiences can very quickly change people that drastically, but giving them a literal magical switch they can flip... Doesn't seem right. A character should earn their morality, their experiences, their... well, character. Not have it forced upon them.

Paseo: It could be, which is why I don't like it. Redemption or damnation shouldn't be as easy as putting on a helmet.

[Porthos]

Redemption or damnation shouldn't be as easy as putting on a helmet.

Well, it IS considered a cursed item for a reason....

(It also traces its linage back to the days where the creators of the game thought it was a hi-lair-i-ous idea to stick an sphere of annihilation in the mouth of a statue (?) on the first level of a dungeon.

So, when taking THAT into consideration, things like the HoOA make sense. It's a relic from the time when the game designers hated their playing base and wanted to make their lives miserable.* )

* Joking.**
** Sort of.