Let's Watch FMA: Brotherhood

[smuchmuch]

Spoiler: Original FMA Anime Spoiler

Show

This is what jarred me so gorram much about the Lab 5 sequence in the original anime, which I watched after watching Brotherhood. I had a hard time getting behind an Edward Elric who was on any level considering the possibility of sacrificing humans, even for Alphonse's sake.

Or am I misremembering it?

Spoiler:

Show

Well rewatching the episode 22:
At first he doesn't know there are live prisoners. Tucker make him beleive he's going to 'refine' some incomplete philosopher stones (which yes have been made from human in the first place but they've alreay been made by soemone else) with lots of red water. The prisoners are on a different level above the transmutation circle and behing a wall that look like it's full of red water so when he checks he only sees a tank of red water). Then the ceiling cracks and he knows but Lust has her pointy finger of stabbyness right on Al's blood Seal. With tears in his eyes, Al starts preparing the ritual, repairs the circle and place the tubes of incomplete stones. It looks like he's going to do it, he says something along the ines of "if we give up now ..." his hands are barely inches from the circle but at the last moment he say "Sorry, Al" and "... I can't" and stay his hand away and slumps in defeat. Then Scar ex machina happens before envy can beat him to pulp.

At worst (and it's admitedly pretty jaring, seeing as Al is genraly decently smarts) you can accuse him of being rather unusualy stupid for trust chimera Tucker and not suspecting the presence of humans sacrifices when he already has readed Marco note or that he'd be willing to use already made philosopher stones. Or that he was willing to use the already made philospher stones (but they've kind of already been processed at this point so it's not like he could reverse the process). But he's definitively not okay with the sacrifice of live ones.

Though it is true that First anime al can be a litle colder and more 'for science' minded than broherhood Al who is more idealistic.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Ah, yes. I was wondering about that. It's been a while.

[Randomguy]

While Ed was willing to use Envy's stone when they were stuck inside Gluttony, it was quite literally a last resort. Use the stone, or die a swift and unpleasant death. The great reluctance of both brothers to use the stones for anything else was quite explicit from the instant they found out what the stone was. Knowing that, Ed would probably have chosen to use his own, sacrificing willingly, rather than profit from a soul taken by force.

I don't know about that. It's been well established that Edward is reluctant in using philospher's stones, yes, but he was literally on the verge of death here, and he's probably the first person to EVER consider using his own soul to fuel alchemy, so this isn't exactly a well tested transmutation. He was literally sacrificing part of his own soul to fuel his alchemy, and he was doing it to do medical alchemy, which he'd never tried before. It could have gone wrong in a hundred different ways. I don't think he would have risked that if he had access to an actual philsopher's stone.

Not to mention that if The Shard had landed right next to him instead of out of sight, then he probably wouldn't even have thought of using his own soul that way. He wouldn't have had to come up with a risky plan if an obvious solution was right in front of him. Although now that I think about it, Edward's capacity to have brilliant realizations is directly proportional to how much blood he's lost.

Oh, and even though it wasn't actually a spoiler, thanks for putting it in spoiler tags just in case. It never hurts to be careful.

Ed's self-healing did shorten his life span, but I don't recall it ever being stated to have shortened it by a particularly large amount. For all I know, that healing could have come at the paltry cost of 1 day of life span. That may be excessively low, but I certainly don't think it cost him decades.

I'm not optimistic.

[John Cribati]

Ed's self-healing did shorten his life span, but I don't recall it ever being stated to have shortened it by a particularly large amount. For all I know, that healing could have come at the paltry cost of 1 day of life span. That may be excessively low, but I certainly don't think it cost him decades.

Well, if Equivalent Exchange means anything, I'd say he time he lost is about the same it would have taken for that wound to heal naturally. So maybe a couple of months?

[Suichimo]

The Story's Tone
In general, I like the tone of Full Metal Alchemist. In my opinion it really hits the sweet spot on the sliding scale of cynicism and idealism. People die, and good people sometimes need to kill, but there's still room for more idealistic characters like Edward and Alphonse without them being portrayed as hopelessly naive. (They're portrayed as a little naive, yes, but not hopelessly naive). This episode was particularly good at this: Edward suffered the negative consequences of showing mercy, but he also reaps the rewards: He spared Kimbley's two soldiers, but to Kimbley they were acceptable collateral, so they ended up saving Edward's life and abandoning Kimbley.

Spoiler

Show

This is actually a huge part of an event that isn't much further away, Kimbley and Pride vs. Alphonse. Kimbley trying to get into Al's head by using his own philosophy of equivalent exchange against him and Al responding back with "Why can't I do both". Kimbley's brilliant reply is if you can save both then you can also lose both.

Kimbley is awesome.

(This shouldn't be a spoiler, pretty sure it's an aspect of character that's already been portrayed, spoilering it as a precaution)

Spoiler

Show

While Ed was willing to use Envy's stone when they were stuck inside Gluttony, it was quite literally a last resort. Use the stone, or die a swift and unpleasant death. The great reluctance of both brothers to use the stones for anything else was quite explicit from the instant they found out what the stone was. Knowing that, Ed would probably have chosen to use his own, sacrificing willingly, rather than profit from a soul taken by force.

Apart from that, what struck me the most about this episode was that what Ed did, in any other series with similar magic, would be a deadly secret, as the ability to use a person in that way would be a foreshadowing of sacrifice-fueled magic and similar abominations. In this one, sacrificing one or two people to power your "spells" is so trivial as to be pointless, when it's so much more profitable just to make them into Philosophers Stones.

Spoiler

Show

Which makes Alphonse's fight with Kimbley and Pride that much more awesome.

[Gnoman]

Spoiler

Show

Which makes Alphonse's fight with Kimbley and Pride that much more awesome.

Spoiler

Show

THat's part of why I;m bringing this up now. That scene loses a lot of impact if you don't go into it with the clear notion that both boys have an extreme reluctance to use the infernal thing. Still incredible (and, frankly, quite terrifying given how powerful Al is without one), but Al going up against two of the most overpowered characters in the series and almost casually crushing them only serves to highlight how big an advantage even a weak stone provides, strengthinging Randomguy's complaint here without that understanding.

[bluewind95]

Probably not a spoiler, but still... someone else might prefer to judge that.

Spoiler: Regarding Ed's use of his soul

Show

Souls are shown to be very, very powerful, which is why the philosopher stone is so good at "bypassing" equivalent exchange. Even when Cornello was given a stone so weak as to be called a "fake", he was able to perform countless "miracles" for a long, long while before the stone ran out of power. The Homunculi have also been running around, using their powers lightly. Even Greed, who would hardly have access to a new philosopher stone, was not shy of using his power. Even after paying the toll for 3 people to go through the gate with his stone (and one of them was more of a people-conglomeration), Envy was hardly bothered, aside from the apparently traumatic event of going through the portal itself. Heck, judging by the amount of time it takes him to transform, he must use a LOT of power to transform into his true form and it is implied the only reason he doesn't do that more often is because he hates how ugly he looks, even if it costs him battle power(and he's not especially impressive at battling anyways, probably one of the worst Homunculi fighters). Even if he can get more philosopher stones, unlike Greed, it is also implied that the souls his philosopher stone has are at least mostly the original souls from Xerxes. So in 200-400 years, he has not finished using them up, and dude LOVES using his powers, and seems to spend a lot of his time disguised and gathering intel. And that's just the two more power-happy Homunculi (at least that are obviously using up their stones to use their special powers. I don't know if Lust uses much energy when using her Ultimate Spear).

When Ed uses his own soul as a Philosopher stone, he admits he only does a sort of hack job to avoid dying. He accepts that he may lose "a few years" of his life span, but it's not sure he actually does. For all he knows, he just used up a few days. It's not like what he did is totally impossible, at least with Alkahestry. Mostly what he needed was to bypass the equivalent exchange (sorta) to create enough cells to close the wound. Not exactly to heal it properly. Personally, I don't think he used more than a couple of years, at most, and probably not more than a few months of life. Still a lot better than dying then and there.

[Randomguy]

Episode 42: "Signs of a counteroffensive"

Watchthrough Thoughts

• WOW I should have looked at all the transmutation circles more carefully. I noticed that the second transmutation circle in the notes appeared a few episodes back when The Father was deciding on sacrifices, I just assumed it was the same one as before.
• IT'S ROSE AGAIN! It's been a while. For a moment I got her confused with Edward's mother and thought that this was a flashback. Oops.
• In retrospect I should have guessed that the reason Pride had The Father's original appearance was because of The Father's pride.
• I'm betting those aren't real soldiers from Drachma.
• Holy crap those are real soldiers from Drachma.
• Darn it, Zompano...

Episode Notes

The protagonists are finally starting to decode Scar's brother's notes! They found out that there's a second transmutation circle, but I'm not sure how they're going to use this knowledge to stop The Father's evil plan. Hopefully they haven't learned everything they could just yet.

Hohenheim can do alchemy just as easily as The Father can. He's also decided to start openly acting against The Father. Here's my question: WHAT TOOK HIM SO LONG? He's known about The Father's plans at least since he warned Pinako to leave the country, and probably a lot longer than that. I guess it's not easy to explain what's happening without sounding like a crazy conspiracy theorist. Or maybe he was working against The Father earlier, just more subtly? What if Hohenheim was the one behind the Freezing Alchemist attack back in episode one?

Also: Rose/Hohenheim ship tease? I didn't see that coming.


Pride continues to be terrifying, but it turns out he's not as free to move around as he'd like people to think. He's still bound to a flask, it's just a really, really big flask. This seems to be a bit of a sore point for him, which isn't that surprising when you think about it. He is Pride, so being forced to admit he has a weakness isn't fun for him. "Sore point" might be a bit of an understatement: The way he was grinding his teeth like that, he looked like he was about to snap. So far, Lust died due to her bloodlust, Greed was killed by The Father because he got too greedy and Gluttony died once partly because he ate something he shouldn't have. I fully expect that the key to Pride's downfall will be his Pride.


At first I didn't think those were really soldiers from Drachma advancing on Fort Briggs. I thought they were puppets or something, created by alchemy, to trick the people of Fort Briggs somehow. Needless to say, I was wrong. I'm surprised Kimbley started a war to wipe out a single fort. That guy REALLY doesn't know the meaning of the word overkill. It was a clever idea, though: Against Fort Briggs, this level of force is probably necessary, and even if the attack fails then it will still result in a "crest of blood", since all the attacking soldiers will be killed.

I wonder: If it's the attacking soldiers that are killed, and not the Briggs soldiers, then would that screw up the transmutation circle by moving the most northern point a smidge further north? There's probably a bit of leeway. I guess it'd still be close enough to the transmutation circle to count.

I'm a little surprised that the relationship between Drachma and Amestris are so rocky that all it takes is a small sign of weakness for Drachma to invade. I suppose it makes sense though: King Bradley can't have been that interested in forging good diplomatic relationships.


Things to add to my List Of Stuff That Will Become Important Later:

• Pride is stuck in his container.
• Could the purpose of this ritual be to give Pride freedom and a body? Probably not.
• King Bradley and the other homunculi know where Scar, May Chang and Doctor Marco are.

[Ravian]

Spoiler: Pride

Show

You're not wrong. I always loved how Cathartic the deaths of the Homunculi are. Pride dies from underestimating the strength of a human soul he absorbed, and is finished off by Edward, himself formerly consumed by his hubris.

[John Cribati]

Spoiler: Pride

Show

You're not wrong. I always loved how Cathartic the deaths of the Homunculi are. Pride dies from underestimating the strength of a human soul he absorbed, and is finished off by Edward, himself formerly consumed by his hubris.

Spoiler

Show

What makes it even better is that the preceding fight involves Ed accepting the fact that he was short and using that to his advantage.

[Randomguy]

Episode 43: "Bite of the Ant"

Watchthrough Thoughts

• Looks like Kimbley wasn't having any "if the attack fails then I still get a crest of blood." stuff, it was his plan for the attack to fail all along.
• For all their talk about only the strong surviving, Briggs is still safer than any other border. They kind of curbstomped Drachma.
• I did NOT see that coming.
• I love how Major Armstrong is like two feet taller than his older sister and she still pushes him around.
• Woah, wait, what? Major Armstrong deserted in Ishval?
• Secret alchemical army!
• Hohenheim meeting Alphonse!

Episode Notes

Wow a lot of stuff happened.

The Fight with Envy
I was honestly expecting Zompano to betray the protagonists, so having it turn out to be a doublecross was a very pleasant surprise. The entire trap was very well planned: They knew Envy well enough to predict that he'd come alone, the mislead him into thinking the remote alchemy traps were mines that he could avoid if he was careful, and Dr. Marco had a way to de-power him entirely.

Of course, they manage to mitigate their success a little by sending May Chang to the Emperor of Xerxes with Envy in a bottle. Let's see... A dying Emperor being given a homunculus that's trapped inside a glass container? There's no way that could possibly go wrong!
I mean, I can't blame the characters for not knowing about the past, but earlier May herself said that if the Emperor found out about philosopher's stone's then he'd have no problem killing off his own citizens to make them. They know Envy's more than 200 years old, they should have at least considered the possibility that he knew how to make philosopher's stones. Even if they didn't expect him to trick the Emperor, sending him there would still be a bad idea.

I was kind of frustrated at May leaving: The Elric brothers have spent so long trying to find her so that she could teach them alcahestry, but when Alphonse finally had the opportunity he barely learned anything before she left! At least now that Alphonse has met up with Hohenheim he'll have another opportunity to learn. It's probably better this way: May Chang might be a prodigy, but she didn't seem like a very competent teacher.

Major Armstrong Deserting
If Major Armstrong deserted because of fear, because he just couldn't handle being on the battlefield, then that's one thing. On the other hand, it's also possible he deserted because he refused to murder innocent people at the orders of Fuhrer Bradley, that would be an entirely different story.

Lizard Chimaera
That lizard chimaera guy's got guts, but will he be more disappointed if he doesn't find Greed in central, or if he does?

Also, it looks like Izumi and her husband have gone into hiding. I guess Hohenheim warned them about what was happening.


Alchemical Army:
What? What? What? How? What?

Could the whole purpose of this iteration of the country-wide transmutation circle be to create an army of philosopher's stones in human form? To create an army of immortal soldiers to take over the world? I don't think so: Why would The Father want to take over the world? He doesn't seem to have an interest in ruling, he only created Amestris as a means to an end, anyway. Or he could put only part of the souls from the transmutation into the army, maybe only 10 per soldier? That would still be enough to get him a sizeable immortal army with enough souls left over to open the portal of truth, or whatever else they're planning to do.


This has been the second episode now without Edward in it. It's been a nice change of pace, but I wonder what he's up to?

Things to add to my List Of Stuff That Will Become Important Later:

• Scar and Dr. Marco are planning to change the country somehow.

[Gnoman]

This episode really bugged me. If Kimblee's plan from the beginning was to simply trick a bunch of foreign soldiers to be massacred, why did he try to make Ed help him earlier? He clearly didn't need any help to get the level of bloodshed he neeeded, so why take the risk of alienating a valuable (obviously Ed is valuable, else the people that are holding Kimblee's leash wouldn't have put so much effort into controlling him, even if Kimblee doesn't have a clue about the long-term plan) resourse? I could kind of see him trying to set up a "You're already damned for helping me earlier" situation, but that seems kind of pointless when he already held Winry hostage at the time, providing a perfectly good leash.

[Randomguy]

This episode really bugged me. If Kimblee's plan from the beginning was to simply trick a bunch of foreign soldiers to be massacred, why did he try to make Ed help him earlier? He clearly didn't need any help to get the level of bloodshed he neeeded, so why take the risk of alienating a valuable (obviously Ed is valuable, else the people that are holding Kimblee's leash wouldn't have put so much effort into controlling him, even if Kimblee doesn't have a clue about the long-term plan) resourse? I could kind of see him trying to set up a "You're already damned for helping me earlier" situation, but that seems kind of pointless when he already held Winry hostage at the time, providing a perfectly good leash.

Maybe forcing a 15 year old kid to commit an atrocity is his idea of a good time, and he expected to get the stone back after Edward was sacrificed? That's the best reason I could come up with, and it's still kind of flimsy.

[Calemyr]

This episode really bugged me. If Kimblee's plan from the beginning was to simply trick a bunch of foreign soldiers to be massacred, why did he try to make Ed help him earlier? He clearly didn't need any help to get the level of bloodshed he neeeded, so why take the risk of alienating a valuable (obviously Ed is valuable, else the people that are holding Kimblee's leash wouldn't have put so much effort into controlling him, even if Kimblee doesn't have a clue about the long-term plan) resourse? I could kind of see him trying to set up a "You're already damned for helping me earlier" situation, but that seems kind of pointless when he already held Winry hostage at the time, providing a perfectly good leash.

I think he was trying to break Ed with that stunt. Put him in a place where he had to seriously consider deciding between letting the only living person (other than Al) he cares about be harmed or breaking his personal code in a big way. Whether he intended to put Edward to the task or not, he wanted to let the kid stew. He wanted to demonstrate his mastery over Ed, and to show him that there was nothing Ed could say that would turn him into an ally the way he did with Mustang or Armstrong.

I also don't think Kimblee actually cared which way Ed broke, he was fascinated by the thought of Ed breaking. Your heart or your soul, which would you sacrifice to save the other? It's the kind of question the Crimson Alchemist would be attracted to.

[Dragonus45]

I think he was trying to break Ed with that stunt. Put him in a place where he had to seriously consider deciding between letting the only living person (other than Al) he cares about be harmed or breaking his personal code in a big way. Whether he intended to put Edward to the task or not, he wanted to let the kid stew. He wanted to demonstrate his mastery over Ed, and to show him that there was nothing Ed could say that would turn him into an ally the way he did with Mustang or Armstrong.

I also don't think Kimblee actually cared which way Ed broke, he was fascinated by the thought of Ed breaking. Your heart or your soul, which would you sacrifice to save the other? It's the kind of question the Crimson Alchemist would be attracted to.

Spoiler: End of Series stuff about Kimblee

Show

I would say that given what we know about Kimblee and his... strange way of viewing teh world and conflict Ithink think the thing with ed was his way of challenging Ed's convictions. Kimblee thinks of those kinds of things as being BIG DEAL, he even turned coat in the end and destroyed pride over the latter's hypocrisy.

[Cizak]

Kimbley didn't come up with the second plan to carve a bloody crest, Pride did.

[Gnoman]

The scene implied he'd been working with notrussia for a long time, I thought.

[Helanna]

I still can't believe "Send the 12(?)-year-old across the desert alone except for a horrendously evil monster who's incredibly good at manipulation" got past every single character with no objections. What the crap, guys? I mean, okay, I get that they wanted her out of the country so she'd be safer, but . . . how is that better?

And yeah, I think Kimblee was just messing with Ed. Should've kept a better grip on Winry if he wanted that to work, though.

On a completely unrelated sidenote: I have a habit of linking certain songs to whatever book or show I was reading/watching around the time I first heard it, if I think they fit together well. So I heard Superheroes by The Script for the first time today, and it is now permanently linked to FMA in my mind.

[Gettles]

For what it's worth, May has already made it across the desert by herself one way, so sending her back isn't completely terrible.

[Knaight]

For what it's worth, May has already made it across the desert by herself one way, so sending her back isn't completely terrible.

Other than the "With Envy" part. Seems like they're underestimating Envy a bit too much to me. But then, Envy always gets underestimated. He was playing sidekick to Lust from early appearances (not to the extent of Gluttony, but still), and now he's overshadowed by Wrath and even Sloth. He went down like a chump to Marcoh. That Envy is pretty dangerous could be forgotten in all that.

[Kato]

Meh, Envy is still the third least qualified Homunculus. He's not entirely stupid/mindless but he's so vain and full of himself (much more than Pride from all I recall) he really only can show off his powers but very little in regard of cunning or anything like that. He's dangerous, alright, and I probably wouldn't leave Mai alone with him but still.

edit: Warning from me in case Hands won't be back in time

SPOILER IN POST BELOW!
Better ignore!
(Hope it helps)

[HandofShadows]

Alchemical Army:[/B]
What? What? What? How? What?

Could the whole purpose of this iteration of the country-wide transmutation circle be to create an army of philosopher's stones in human form? To create an army of immortal soldiers to take over the world? I don't think so: Why would The Father want to take over the world? He doesn't seem to have an interest in ruling, he only created Amestris as a means to an end, anyway. Or he could put only part of the souls from the transmutation into the army, maybe only 10 per soldier? That would still be enough to get him a sizeable immortal army with enough souls left over to open the portal of truth, or whatever else they're planning to do.

Spoiler

Show

The Alchemical Army was just a "side project" to keep the military leadership busy so they wouldn't notice that the country-wide transmutation circle would absorb them as well. Basically a distarction and nothing more. One reason they didn't work as advertised.

[Merellis]

Shadow! Spoiler that!

[SaintRidley]

I still can't believe "Send the 12(?)-year-old across the desert alone except for a horrendously evil monster who's incredibly good at manipulation" got past every single character with no objections. What the crap, guys?

Obviously the people of Xing become super competent on their twelfth birthdays. Either that or the people of Amestris do and just assume it works that way for everyone else (but really it's Father's doing - such a nice man, that Father).

[Calemyr]

Obviously the people of Xing become super competent on their twelfth birthdays. Either that or the people of Amestris do and just assume it works that way for everyone else (but really it's Father's doing - such a nice man, that Father).

Look at the Elrics, and what they accomplished before they hit their teens. May is an absurdly powerful alchemist for her age, able to meaningfully contribute to fights well above her weight class. Add in the fact that nobody considers Envy to be the brains of the group (cunning, perhaps, but not very smart), has no power left to draw on anymore, and the fact that the Elrics do owe her a lot and have no other means to pay her back properly, and I can see how they thought it was the right thing to do (although probably not the smart thing).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'm a shounen girl, in a shounen world...

[bluewind95]

Envy's always struck me as a very unfairly-judged homunculus. He IS smart, there's a reason he's the one doing all the spying and whatnot, and it's not just his shape-shifting ability. Manipulation takes brains, and he obviously has that down to a T. He is, however, also incredibly unwise, and quite impulsive and gets carried away by temper and sadism. Something that wiser (but not necessarily smarter) minds can exploit, and they DO. But he's not an especially great fighter. He is shown to be remarkably uncoordinated for a Homunculus(possibly because of how heavy he is), without even high defenses, like Greed. Sure, he can brute-force his way around in his true form, but even THAT mostly relies on intimidation, what with all the faces and stuff (and he'll also avoid it like the plague). He's probably the least battle-worthy Homunculus, and that's only physically. He seems to know it, too, as he usually tries to avoid battles if at all possible (till he's unwise enough to let his temper get the best of him, anyways).

Also, at least against Dr. Marcoh, he was VERY unfairly matched. Marcoh had a win-button against him. It's no wonder he was curb-stomped. Win buttons tend to do that. Marcoh is also a wise and intelligent man, and he's spent enough time with Envy to know how to push his buttons (though I don't think even he expected Envy to go one-winged-angel on them). Against Ling, he was ALSO unfairly matched. Ling is a dude that can take on Bradley, who can move at speeds the human eye can't see. That Envy was able to mostly stay relatively unharmed was already testament to how dangerous he is. Dude's un-coordinated as hell (for a Homunculus) and he was going against an almost-superhuman warrior.

I agree, though, with Scar and co. seeming VERY unwise in giving Envy to May. But in the end, they're not the ones who know how dangerous Envy is. That's Ed and Ling. They heard just how manipulative that Homunculus is, and how dangerous that makes him (for humanity as a whole, perhaps, rather than any one person). They're the ones who'd already seen what his true form's brute strength is. Scar and co. saw him at his true form... but only with Marcoh's win-button. Even if Envy's powerful enough to basically shrug off Scar's killing attack, that power was taken away. Aside from that, all Marcoh knew is that Envy is very unwise and very sadistic. But what harm could he possibly do half-dead, inside a jar, where his very last power is denied him? It's really hard to take Envy seriously when he's this tiny, ugly, pathetic thing. Especially when you don't even know how dangerous he was in the first place.

[Suichimo]

Envy's always struck me as a very unfairly-judged homunculus. He IS smart, there's a reason he's the one doing all the spying and whatnot, and it's not just his shape-shifting ability. Manipulation takes brains, and he obviously has that down to a T. He is, however, also incredibly unwise, and quite impulsive and gets carried away by temper and sadism. Something that wiser (but not necessarily smarter) minds can exploit, and they DO. But he's not an especially great fighter. He is shown to be remarkably uncoordinated for a Homunculus(possibly because of how heavy he is), without even high defenses, like Greed. Sure, he can brute-force his way around in his true form, but even THAT mostly relies on intimidation, what with all the faces and stuff (and he'll also avoid it like the plague). He's probably the least battle-worthy Homunculus, and that's only physically. He seems to know it, too, as he usually tries to avoid battles if at all possible (till he's unwise enough to let his temper get the best of him, anyways).

Also, at least against Dr. Marcoh, he was VERY unfairly matched. Marcoh had a win-button against him. It's no wonder he was curb-stomped. Win buttons tend to do that. Marcoh is also a wise and intelligent man, and he's spent enough time with Envy to know how to push his buttons (though I don't think even he expected Envy to go one-winged-angel on them). Against Ling, he was ALSO unfairly matched. Ling is a dude that can take on Bradley, who can move at speeds the human eye can't see. That Envy was able to mostly stay relatively unharmed was already testament to how dangerous he is. Dude's un-coordinated as hell (for a Homunculus) and he was going against an almost-superhuman warrior.

I agree, though, with Scar and co. seeming VERY unwise in giving Envy to May. But in the end, they're not the ones who know how dangerous Envy is. That's Ed and Ling. They heard just how manipulative that Homunculus is, and how dangerous that makes him (for humanity as a whole, perhaps, rather than any one person). They're the ones who'd already seen what his true form's brute strength is. Scar and co. saw him at his true form... but only with Marcoh's win-button. Even if Envy's powerful enough to basically shrug off Scar's killing attack, that power was taken away. Aside from that, all Marcoh knew is that Envy is very unwise and very sadistic. But what harm could he possibly do half-dead, inside a jar, where his very last power is denied him? It's really hard to take Envy seriously when he's this tiny, ugly, pathetic thing. Especially when you don't even know how dangerous he was in the first place.

Spoiler: Envy

Show

Envy's intelligence only goes as far as manipulation and spying though, and he doesn't have the spying thing down completely. He clearly has no head for any kind of tactical thinking, just look at Mustang curb stomping him. He is probably the weakest of all the Homunculi, even Gluttony can suck everything in by opening the fake Portal of Truth.

[Knaight]

Spoiler: Envy

Show

Envy's intelligence only goes as far as manipulation and spying though, and he doesn't have the spying thing down completely. He clearly has no head for any kind of tactical thinking, just look at Mustang curb stomping him. He is probably the weakest of all the Homunculi, even Gluttony can suck everything in by opening the fake Portal of Truth.

I'd agree that Envy's intelligence is much, much more applicable in things other than directly applying violence. It's not directly applying violence that ever made him all that dangerous, though he's still pretty good at it by virtue of being a Homunculi.

It's also not the application of violence that would make giving him to May an issue. After all, that particular ability is pretty well contained, compliments of Marcoh. It's his cunning and intellect in all other aspects. It's his manipulation. It's the set of abilities that Envy is very, very good at.

Spoiler: Envy

Show

Also, having trouble fighting Mustang doesn't prove much. Mustang is an unholy terror as far as his enemies are concerned, and they're entirely correct. He burnt Lust to a cinder while pretty badly injured. He single handedly incinerated a horde of "immortal soldiers" that were giving Ed, Scar, and the chimeras serious problems.

[bluewind95]

Spoiler: Envy

Show

Envy's intelligence only goes as far as manipulation and spying though, and he doesn't have the spying thing down completely. He clearly has no head for any kind of tactical thinking, just look at Mustang curb stomping him. He is probably the weakest of all the Homunculi, even Gluttony can suck everything in by opening the fake Portal of Truth.

Spoiler: Envy

Show

You need to be pretty danged smart to manipulate people on the scale Envy does. He never needed to fight, and the few times he's REALLY had to do it, he usually can get by on virtue of being stronger due to being a Homunculus, but he seems well-aware he's dreadful at it(and thus avoids it). But since he doesn't need it, he doesn't hone those skills. Someone doesn't have to be intelligent in all areas to be, well, intelligent. He shows good tactical thinking in his manipulation. Even when it comes to fighting, he can quickly pull dirty tricks to try to get ahead and make up for his lack of skill.

Like Knaight said, his fight against Mustang is different. For starters, Envy CAN'T even get close to Mustang without being burned alive in ways so painful that he can't even focus anymore. One of those times has him twitching and screaming uncontrollably from the pain, and most of those have him paralyzed and screaming in pain. The BEST idea he ever got was to run away. In the manga, it shows that he went back into the fray cos they were getting too close to Father and he'd likely face Father's wrath if he let them continue down that path. That said, Mustang terrifies him so much that I don't think Envy can even think straight at that point. That's not so much speaking about his intelligence as it is speaking about the UTTER TERROR Mustang caused him. There's a few scenes that have him right at the verge of breaking down in tears before Mustang destroys his body completely.

I daresay that the fight between Envy and Mustang was even more unfair than the one between Marcoh and Envy. Marcoh had a win-button. Mustang had a win-in-the-most-horrifying-way-possible power. I mean, Lust WAS a combat-capable Homunculus and even she fell easily at Mustang's hands. Envy could take a lot more punishment, but he was far less capable of striking back.