Let's Watch FMA: Brotherhood

[Kato]

Spoiler: Found one

Show

Source

Not bad

We still need to find some way to make Envy!Vaarsuvius. Not sure about whoever else, except

Spoiler

Show

Wreck-it Ralph as Sloth

Eh, there are enough characters who are good fits for any Sin, though Sloth I guess is a bit harder than the others...

Spoiler

Show

Pride always had a striking resemblance to the immortal kid antagonist from that one Cowboy Bebop episode to me. And Wrath... well, Wrath is like every manly man with an eyepatch. First that comes to mind would be a Nick Fury merge...

[Dragonus45]

Not bad



Eh, there are enough characters who are good fits for any Sin, though Sloth I guess is a bit harder than the others...

Spoiler

Show

Pride always had a striking resemblance to the immortal kid antagonist from that one Cowboy Bebop episode to me. And Wrath... well, Wrath is like every manly man with an eyepatch. First that comes to mind would be a Nick Fury merge...

Spoiler

Show

Nick Furry has had it with these mutha fracking state alchemists in this motha fracking country.

[TheSummoner]

We still need to find some way to make Envy!Vaarsuvius.

I disagree. Aside from the two being androgynous, they look nothing alike. The only character I can think of with even a passing resemblance to Envy is Sideshow Bob and really, it's all in the hair on that one.

Not sure about whoever else, except

Spoiler

Show

Wreck-it Ralph as Sloth

This one I agree with.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Spoiler

Show

Nick Furry has had it with these mutha fracking state alchemists in this motha fracking country.

Spoiler: Wait, wait... (The Homunculi)

Show

Wrath: Nick Fury
Lust: Black Widow
Sloth: Hulk
Greed: Tony Stark
Pride: That little kid from Iron Man 3.
Gluttony: ...okay, I've got no clue this time.
Envy: A guest appearance by Loki

But hey, I at least had some good picks!

[Ravian]

So... Not trying to be pushy (sorry if it comes across as such) but any idea when the next episode is coming? The suspence is killing me.

[Randomguy]

So... Not trying to be pushy (sorry if it comes across as such) but any idea when the next episode is coming? The suspence is killing me.

Today seems as good a time as any. (Didn't see that coming, did you? )
Before we start, though, I'd like to apologize for the hiatus. (And right before the long awaited episode 14, too.) I've basically been spending the last two weeks frantically learning C++ for a volunteer project, and I intended to keep updating but I just didn't find the time. In retrospect I probably should have game some sort of warning. On the bright side, now that I'm done working through the C++ textbook I should have time to start updating regularly again.

Now, where were we? Let's see... Edward just figured out how to beat Greed, but was too worn down to win the fight on his own. Fortunately, he was saved by the timely arrival of Izumi. I can now expect either a badass fight scene with Izumi and Edward vs. Greed, or Izumi's brutal demise at the hands of Greed. Fingers crossed, everyone.

Episode 14: Those who Lurk Underground

Watchthrough Thoughts

• Wow. When you guys said that stuff hits the fan in this episode, you were right.
• The Fuhrer is a homunculus?!?!

Episode Notes

Well that didn't go at all like I expected. Things were really building up to a conflict between Greed and Izumi and Edward, but they just kind of subverted my expectations right away, and surprised me by having the military suddenly show up.

I think it's noteworthy that Alfonse was trying to protect Martel even though she was one of his enemies, and especially since he would be fully justified in being mad at her. It shows that he's very good hearted. Oh, and off topic but is there some association between the name/word "Martel" and snakes in general? Because I couldn't find any, but this isn't the first time I've seen people with snake associations being named Martel.

I’ll end off with one last note: Earlier, I mentioned that the only reason Edward needs to be sacrificed as opposed to anyone else is that Edward saw the Truth. But his teacher saw the Truth as well. (I understand now why the Fandom calls him Truth). Perhaps, if the Sins find out about this, then they’ll change plans and use her as the sacrifice instead?

King Bradley / Wrath mentioned that Izumi and Alfonse were both working candidates for sacrifice as well as Edward, so I guess I was right that they specifically need to sacrifice someone who knows The Truth. I've been thinking about what they're trying to get in exchange: By sacrificing knowledge of The Truth, perhaps they're trying to get The Truth? It's certainly equivalent, and any alchemist would want to learn more about how the universe works so that would fit with the Sin's Father's motives.

For a moment I found it weird that "Pride" was never mentioned. Sloth was mentioned, even though he wasn't there, but Greed didn't say anything like "And where's Pride, couldn't he make it?". Isn't Pride considered to be the greatest Sin? It's past time I looked at the wikipedia page for the Seven Deadly Sins.

In almost every list, pride (Latin, superbia), or hubris (Greek), is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and the source of the others.

And it occurs to me that, if you count Sloth, there were 7 people in that scene. Pride is the Father of all the other sins. The only problem with this theory is that The Father is old, and Greed was surprised to find out that it's possible to make a homunculus that ages. Also, from the looks of the book he was reading The Father is an alchemist, and we haven't seen any of the Sins use alchemy yet. Maybe The Father only represents the sin of Pride, or he renamed himself Pride, or something, without actually being a homunculus? Lust and Envy showed nothing but disdain for normal humans, so it would make more sense if their master wasn't human than if they made an exception for the one human that created them. I don't really have enough evidence to say anything conclusively yet.

While we're on the topic of The Father, it strikes me as a bit odd that he would choose to create deadly sins as his servants. If he used virtues instead then they'd probably be much less likely to betray him like Greed did. One possibility I'm considering is that since he creates the homunculi out of his own soul, he externalizes the sin, and thereby rids himself of it. This would mean that if there is no separate Pride homunculus, that the only sin The Father has left is pride, which would fit with him representing the sin of pride. It's also possible that this is just one of those "I'm blatantly evil so my minions will be deadly sins" things, but this guy strikes me as one of those "Above Good and Evil" Types.

At the end of the episode we get another surprise (as if there haven't been enough already) when we find out that King Bradley has a son, Selene, which means that homunculi can have children. (Unless he's adopted). Also, that bit at the end when Bradley says "Who knows, you might end up helping me out one day" seems ominous.


I can see why a lot of people like Greed so much. Even though he's only in the show for two episodes (unless he comes back later somehow :? ) he has more lines than any of the other homunculi. Also, the guy's got guts. There's something to be said about dying while snarking at your killers the whole time. It was nice to see someone antagonize the antagonists. My favourite part was "Feel free to pierce me with your ultimate spear any time you want."

Looking Back at the Plot
Earlier in the series, the implications of peoples actions varied a lot depending on whether Lust and the other sins were working with or against King Bradley. Now that we know that King Bradley is really Wrath, we can start to piece things together with more clarity.

If you look at Wrath's actions separately from the actions of the other Sins, things make sense.
Someone wants to gain a lot of knowledge about alchemy and the philospher's stone, but to do this he needs to have enough political power to get away with human sacrifice and not be pestered by the police, so he uses alchemy to create a minion, installs that minion as dictator and can then get away with whatever he wants.
Someone wants to collapse the country's government, so he creates a group of minions and uses them to rile up the masses and destabilize the country overall.

But why would someone want to both take over the government and then overthrow it? Perhaps The Father ultimately wanted to destroy the government, but needed to take over first so that he could get the resources that he needed to destroy it? But then why would that plan call for Wrath being younger than the other sins?
I know that The Father is trying to plunge the country into chaos, that he wants information about the philosopher's stone, that he's probably trying to get The Truth, and that he wants to bring about the "Promised Day", but beyond that I don't really know what his plans or his motives are.

Things to add to my List Of Stuff That Will Become Important Later:

• King Bradley is Wrath.
• The Father of the sins might be Pride
• The Father is trying to bring about the Promised Day.
• The Father looks suspiciously like Hohenheim. Perhaps he is a distant ancestor of Edward's?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Surpriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiise!!! Isn't it great to look back on prior episodes with the knowledge you have now? Also, it's fun to see you picking up the pieces of bigger puzzles one at a time.

[TheSummoner]

So, fun fact since you finally reached the big episode.

The Fuhrer was not Wrath in the 2003 adaptation. He was Pride in that version. Wrath and Sloth were both different than their manga/brotherhood counterparts as well.

Wrath and Father were just the start, things are gonna pick up speed real nice for a while.

[Ravian]

Whoo!! Update!!

Also on record for saying Wrath is awesome, Greed is still best Homunculus, but Wrath is best villainous Homunculus.

Spoiler

Show

It takes until the final act before the guy is even hit, let alone defeated

Spoiler: the pieces are falling into place...

Show

For a moment I found it weird that "Pride" was never mentioned. Sloth was mentioned, even though he wasn't there, but Greed didn't say anything like "And where's Pride, couldn't he make it?". Isn't Pride considered to be the greatest Sin? It's past time I looked at the wikipedia page for the Seven Deadly Sins.

While we're on the topic of The Father, it strikes me as a bit odd that he would choose to create deadly sins as his servants. If he used virtues instead then they'd probably be much less likely to betray him like Greed did. One possibility I'm considering is that since he creates the homunculi out of his own soul, he externalizes the sin, and thereby rids himself of it. This would mean that if there is no separate Pride homunculus, that the only sin The Father has left is pride, which would fit with him representing the sin of pride. It's also possible that this is just one of those "I'm blatantly evil so my minions will be deadly sins" things, but this guy strikes me as one of those "Above Good and Evil" Types.

He's slowly putting the pieces together

[*]The Father looks suspiciously like Hohenheim. Perhaps he is a distant ancestor of Edward's?

And it will be glorious once he completes the puzzle

I can see why a lot of people like Greed so much. Even though he's only in the show for two episodes (unless he comes back later somehow :? ) he has more lines than any of the other homunculi. Also, the guy's got guts. There's something to be said about dying while snarking at your killers the whole time. It was nice to see someone antagonize the antagonists. My favourite part was "Feel free to pierce me with your ultimate spear any time you want."

It helps that he has one of the coolest powers as well (though Wrath's swordfighting skills are just as badass) but yeah that attitude is just the sort of magnificent bastard everyone loves.

[TheSummoner]

Spoiler

Show

It takes until the final act before the guy is even hit, let alone defeated

Spoiler

Show

It takes a double suicide attack for him to even be injured enough to be defeated. They had to do something so crazy and stupid that it even managed catch the ultimate eye off guard.

Spoiler: the pieces are falling into place...

Show

He's slowly putting the pieces together



And it will be glorious once he completes the puzzle

Spoiler

Show

Anyone want to play with his head a bit? Quote his bullet point about Father looking like Hohenheim and reply with.

"Hmm, I wonder why that is."

It'll drive him crazy.

[Xondoure]

Be sure to avoid popular culture on those wikipedia threads. Beware the spoilers.

[Gettles]

I love how Martel is killed off like they are setting her up to be important later on then kill her in an excessively gruesome way.. Al tries to sneak her out, the rest of Greeds gang wants to buy them time, you think he's going to escape, and then Martel will drop some real knowledge about what the military is really up to. Then Bradly just goes NOPE ends that plot thread before it can get started and Al's left scraping parts of snake-lady out of his insides.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Show

Also, next episode we get to see his reaction to Ling, Lan Fan, and May.

I'm so excited.

[John Cribati]

I would like to note that there is a man named Mark Oshiro who actually makes a living recording his first (and often over)reactions to popular media he is nonetheless just now experiencing for the first time, and for only 99 cents per episode (he has a package deal, but if you really just want the really, really gut-punching scenes, such as NinaAlexander, Hughes' death, the reveal of Wrath, etc. this is obviously the better deal) and a bit of patience to sync up the video, you can watch a nearly 40-year-old man flip out over this.

[Cen]

The Father looks suspiciously like Hohenheim. Perhaps he is a distant ancestor of Edward's?

Hehehehehe

[Eldan]

I would like to note that there is a man named Mark Oshiro who actually makes a living recording his first (and often over)reactions to popular media he is nonetheless just now experiencing for the first time, and for only 99 cents per episode (he has a package deal, but if you really just want the really, really gut-punching scenes, such as NinaAlexander, Hughes' death, the reveal of Wrath, etc. this is obviously the better deal) and a bit of patience to sync up the video, you can watch a nearly 40-year-old man flip out over this.

I honestly find him pretty much unwatchable. I can tolerate him while reading him since he occasionally has interesting opinions. But his reactions to anything even remotely twist-like or even slightly strange are so theatrically over-the-top that I can't take it seriously and it just becomes annoying.

[Calemyr]

I can't remember if it's Brotherhood or 2003 where he says it, but one of the most interesting things Greed says is when he's asked why he's so supportive and protective of his followers: "I'm Greed, and I want everything. And I won't let anything take or damage my stuff!"

That's probably why I find him so fascinating. He's completely in character as a deadly sin, but twists it into the definition of a strange variety of anti-villain. Lust may make being evil look good and Wrath may make being evil look badass, but Greed finds a way to make his particular brand of evil oddly sympathetic. Plus, the guy just has style - defiant to the bitter end.

[Ravian]

I can't remember if it's Brotherhood or 2003 where he says it, but one of the most interesting things Greed says is when he's asked why he's so supportive and protective of his followers: "I'm Greed, and I want everything. And I won't let anything take or damage my stuff!"

That's probably why I find him so fascinating. He's completely in character as a deadly sin, but twists it into the definition of a strange variety of anti-villain. Lust may make being evil look good and Wrath may make being evil look badass, but Greed finds a way to make his particular brand of evil oddly sympathetic. Plus, the guy just has style - defiant to the bitter end.

Very true, I especially like when

Spoiler

Show

He defends the virtues of greed to Edward. That without greed, humanity would never have advanced in any way.

[Yana]

I'm going to echo what the rest of the spectators are saying: do not read about Pride on Wikipedia. It takes ages for you to learn what Pride is in Brotherhood.

[SaintRidley]

Ah, the Promised Day. You're getting in deep now.

[Randomguy]

I'm going to echo what the rest of the spectators are saying: do not read about Pride on Wikipedia. It takes ages for you to learn what Pride is in Brotherhood.

The entire article, or just the popular culture parts? I haven't checked any of the popular culture parts anywhere, but I have read the section about Pride on the Seven Deadly Sins wikipedia page, and briefly glanced at the page on Pride.

[SaintRidley]

Probably just best to read nothing on the sins, to be sure.

[TheSummoner]

Probably better to just watch episode 15.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Guess I better start watching Brotherhood again... this is the point where I started watching the 2003 show and stopped watching Brotherhood on Toonami.

I'm tempted to just read the manga instead to get the story exactly how it was intended.

[Dragonus45]

I was doing that thing where I watch an episode at a time with the person doing the lets watch, then I wound up watching the entire series again in 3 days on netflix. Also does anyone know why netflix is missing the last season?

[Rodin]

I was doing that thing where I watch an episode at a time with the person doing the lets watch, then I wound up watching the entire series again in 3 days on netflix. Also does anyone know why netflix is missing the last season?

Because Hulu still has the rights to it. For some reason.

Darned irritating if you're doing a binge-watch.

The subs on my Netflix drive me to distraction though - it's like it's Closed Captioning for the hearing-impaired, so you get <Train Noises> and such in the subtitles. Plus it's out of sync slightly, at least on mine. And then there's the fact that the subs are of inferior quality to the ones on the Hulu version, which is where I originally watched the darn show.

*grumble grumble*

[Dragonus45]

Because Hulu still has the rights to it. For some reason.

Darned irritating if you're doing a binge-watch.

The subs on my Netflix drive me to distraction though - it's like it's Closed Captioning for the hearing-impaired, so you get <Train Noises> and such in the subtitles. Plus it's out of sync slightly, at least on mine. And then there's the fact that the subs are of inferior quality to the ones on the Hulu version, which is where I originally watched the darn show.

*grumble grumble*

I just watched the dub, because its bloody amazing and I have a huge crush on Eds voice actor.

[smuchmuch]

I can't remember if it's Brotherhood or 2003 where he says it, but one of the most interesting things Greed says is when he's asked why he's so supportive and protective of his followers: "I'm Greed, and I want everything. And I won't let anything take or damage my stuff!"

I've been binge watching both series and he pretty much says it in both. Though he doesnt go through the same storries and doesn't have the same amount of screen time he's probaly one of the more consistant character between both versions.

Spoiler: Brotherhood spoiler

Show

He jsut get waaaay more screen time and subsequent character devellopement in Brotherhood due to the whole being resurected in Lin's body. so we get to know and love him.

King Bradley has a son, Selene

Selim
betwen that and 'Poenhighm', I'm starting to honstly wonder who trnalaed this, (because last I cheked Selene is definitively a girl's name, ain' it ?)

[Closet_Skeleton]

Selim
betwen that and 'Poenhighm', I'm starting to honstly wonder who trnalaed this, (because last I cheked Selene is definitively a girl's name, ain' it ?)

Its a feminine gendered word very occasionally used as a girl's name.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Guess I better start watching Brotherhood again... this is the point where I started watching the 2003 show and stopped watching Brotherhood on Toonami.

I'm tempted to just read the manga instead to get the story exactly how it was intended.

I've read the manga and seen Brotherhood, and they're nigh-identical. Many of the scenes are shot-for-shot the same, but the anime has colors and motion and music. The only thing you lose are some of the early filler episodes like the train episode in the first anime.

[Cizak]

I've read the manga and seen Brotherhood, and they're nigh-identical. Many of the scenes are shot-for-shot the same, but the anime has colors and motion and music. The only thing you lose are some of the early filler episodes like the train episode in the first anime.

It's not really filler if it's in the manga Both the train part and the coal mine part are absent from Brotherhood, but are in the 2003 anime and the manga. Although I think the 2003 anime sets the train episode in the past while it takes place in the present in the manga.
Aside from that, there are small differences. From the top of my head...

Spoiler

Show

• A scene of Hohenheim getting robbed and shot (but of course surviving) is not in Brotherhood.
• There's a tiny bit more focus on showing how the Ishvalans (particulary the monks) were a credible threat to the army before the state alchemists showed up.
• Pride's shadows only have sharp teeth after absorbing Gluttony is the manga. In Brotherhood, they have both sharp and flat teeth before absorbing Gluttony, and the change is instead marked by Pride getting purple eyes.
• When May attacks Father in Brotherhood, she transmutes spikes to pin his arms. She does not do this is the manga.
• When Greed attacks Father during the final battle in Brotherhood, he tries to drain Father's godhood from him. He does not do this in the manga.
• And one of the biggest things that are different is that while Hawkeye, Roy, Havoc, Barry and Al are chasing Barry's body and fighting Lust, there's is also a fight between Envy, Gluttony and Ling, Lan Fan. It mainly consists of Envy and Gluttony getting curbstomped due to Ling's and Lan Fan being able to sense their presence. Eventually, Envy gets fed up and tells Gluttony to swallow the civilians around them while he prepares to turn into his true form himself. They are stopped by Pride's voice who tells them that they've screwed up too badly and need to stand down. They retreat, and Ling and Lan Fan are left behind trembling due to Pride's presence. I have no idea why they cut this part, except that maybe they didn't want us to hear Pride's voice yet. There's no way to know who he is when reading his dialouge in text, but maybe there could be a small chance of figuring out his identity by hearing his voice so long before his reveal.

I'm sure there's a bunch of other small stuff.