Mutants & Masterminds III: How to build some powers?

[Morty]

By "special moves" do you mean Powers designed to represent feats of swordsmanship?

[Sith_Happens]

By "special moves" do you mean Powers designed to represent feats of swordsmanship?

Yes. Anything offensive is almost certainly going to be some combination of Damage and Affliction, and should be an alternate effect of your basic "insert pointy end into target" power. On the defensive side, most variations of "I block it with my sword" are just Enhanced Dodge/Parry (Easily removable).

Alternatively, some moves probably make the most sense as modifiers on the aforementioned "insert pointy end into target" power. Like Multiattack or Split for slashing multiple enemies at once.

[Morty]

Hmm. So what I'm looking at are some damage/affliction powers to represent sword attacks, some enchanced defence powers to represent dodging and parrying, and leaping and quickness for feats of acrobatics. Maybe some danger sense, too.

[JustIgnoreMe]

That's a good start, but how about...

Enhanced Trait (Strength), Limited: Only for Disarms. Easier to rip weapons out of your enemies' hands.

A low powered Move Object to represent using the blade to flick things at your enemies.

Deflection, with Reflection and Redirection: blocking and diverting blows with your sword.

Some Nullify Attack/Defence: your amazing technique completely counters whatever they try to do.

A bunch of Weakens: sap your enemy's strength (or fighting ability, or defences) with punishing blows.

[Sith_Happens]

Enhanced Trait (Strength), Limited: Only for Disarms. Easier to rip weapons out of your enemies' hands.

Unnecessary, your roll to disarm someone is based on the damage of the attack you're using to do so.

A low powered Move Object to represent using the blade to flick things at your enemies.

Ranged Damage (Variable descriptor) is both simpler and more effective for that.

[Kymme]

Grod, how exactly does Reaction Speed 1 work? Does it give you a free move action or something like that?

[JustIgnoreMe]

Unnecessary, your roll to disarm someone is based on the damage of the attack you're using to do so.

Yes, and that attack will be Strength-based. Not everyone will have maxed-out Strength and Close Combat.

[Sith_Happens]

Grod, how exactly does Reaction Speed 1 work? Does it give you a free move action or something like that?

No, it just turns your Speed on in response to some specific event. Considering that Speed is already free and sustained, this is of highly limited usefulness.

Yes, and that attack will be Strength-based. Not everyone will have maxed-out Strength and Close Combat.

It will be Strength-based Damage, which if you don't have maxed out you're going to have more problems than just being mediocre at disarming people (like also being mediocre at harming them).

[Grod_The_Giant]

Grod, how exactly does Reaction Speed 1 work? Does it give you a free move action or something like that?

No, it just turns your Speed on in response to some specific event. Considering that Speed is already free and sustained, this is of highly limited usefulness.

I took it straight from the Speed power profile, which describes the effect as "when you percieve an attack, you instantly move somewhere else." So my interpretation is that yeah, you zip thirty feet to the side. If it bothers you, replace it with Reaction Teleport 1, Limited: move through intervening space" or something like that.

[Morty]

So having established what I want, I'm trying to figure out how the heck it works. Does the book tell me anywhere how to calculate my attack bonus? How Strength affects damage? How does the Damage power effect interact with it?

[JustIgnoreMe]

Chapter 1 for the basics.

Chapter 3 for what Str Dex and all the others do.

Chapter 4 for skills.

Chapter 5 for advantages (feats).

What's causing you problems?

[Morty]

Like I said - I don't know how to calculate my basic attack bonus. I guess it's Fighting + Close Combat + others? I'm also not sure how Strength affects the damage I deal and whether or not it's added to the Damage power effect.

EDIT: Alright, so it seems I just add my Strength and the power's Damage rank together to determine the overall damage rank.

[JustIgnoreMe]

Like I said - I don't know how to calculate my basic attack bonus.

No such thing. It depends on whether it's ranged or melee, and what skills you have in that attack.

EDIT: Alright, so it seems I just add my Strength and the power's Damage rank together to determine the overall damage rank.

Only it you made the Damage Strength based. Like with a bow or a knife.

[Sith_Happens]

I took it straight from the Speed power profile, which describes the effect as "when you percieve an attack, you instantly move somewhere else." So my interpretation is that yeah, you zip thirty feet to the side. If it bothers you, replace it with Reaction Teleport 1, Limited: move through intervening space" or something like that.

[Note to self: the Power Profiles seem to have been written entirely by people who don't know how movement effects work.]

So having established what I want, I'm trying to figure out how the heck it works. Does the book tell me anywhere how to calculate my attack bonus? How Strength affects damage? How does the Damage power effect interact with it?

Attack bonus sources:

* Fighting increases melee attack bonus, among other things, by +1/rank for 2 points/rank.

* Dexterity increases ranged attack bonus, among other things, by +1/rank for 2 points/rank.

* The Close Attack advantage increases melee attack bonus by +1/rank for 1 point/rank.

* The Ranged Attack advantage increases ranged attack bonus by +1/rank for 1 point/rank.

* The Close Combat skill increases the attack bonus for a specific category of melee attacks, like Swords or Unarmed, by +1/rank for 1 point/2 ranks.

* The Ranged Combat skill increases the attack bonus for a specific category of ranged attacks, like Bows or Fire Blasts, by +1/rank for 1 point/2 ranks.

* The Accurate extra increases the attack bonus of the effect to which it's applied for 1 point/+2 bonus.

* The Inaccurate flaw decreases the attack bonus of the effect to which it's applied for a 1 point refund per -2 penalty; take this on a power that you want to have a higher baseline effect/damage rank than would normally be allowed based on your Power Level and [Ability]+[Advantage]+[Skill].

Strength and damage:

* When building a Damage power, you may declare it to be Strength-based. It costs nothing to do this, though the power's description should justify the choice.

* When determining the damage rank of a Strength-based power, add your Strength rank to the power's rank.

* The total damage rank of a power after adding your Strength is still limited by power level. The upshot of making a power Strength-based is merely that you don't have to pay for as many effect ranks.

* For the purpose of adding modifiers to a Strength-based power, treat the power as if it had a rank equal to its damage rank after adding your Strength. For example, if you have Strength 4 and want Strength-based Ranged Damage 6, the "Ranged" bit costs 10 points, not 6, because it's going to be dealing 10 damage in total.

[Morty]

Unfortunately, I couldn't make it to that particular game. But thanks, anyway. I'll keep it in mind if I try M&M again.

[deuxhero]

I just looked over the SRD and tried building a character. Is this build legal? Any suggestions? Concept is someone who calls a suit of armor that used to belong to a master archer.

150 point total (actually have some left over for corrections and fine tuning)
All abilities marked with * are linked to the armor, which is removable (I didn't apply the reduction for the numbers listed as the math is more friendly to adding them all up first). A standard action summons the armor (an activation flaw) as long at least one piece is possessed (typically the bracer).
Strength +2: 4
Stamina +2: 4
Agility: +2 4
Dexterity +3: 6
Fighting +2: 4
Intellect +4: 8
Presence +3: 6
Awareness -2: -4 (the character's obliviousness is a character flaw in the RP sense)
(32)
Enhanced Traits
Strength + 5: 8*
Stamina + 5: 8*
Agility +2: 2*
Dexterity: +4: 6*
Fighting +3: 4*
Presence +2: 2*
Awareness +4: 6*
(36)*

Defenses:
Dodge: ?
Fortitude: ?
Parry: ?
Toughness: ?
Will: ?
(not sure what to boost or if I even need to)

skills:
Inate
Acrobatics +2: 1
Atheltics +2: 1
Close Combat (Grapple) +4: 2
Deception +2: 1
Expertise (Science) +4: 2
Persuasion +2: 1
Ranged Combat (bows) +4: 2
Technology +4: 2


Activated
Athletics +8*: 2
Expertise (Tactics) +8*: 2
Expertise (History) +8*: 2
Intimidation +8: 2*
Ranged Combat (bows) +10*: 3
Perception +16*: 6

12 + (22)

Advantages:
Improved Grab
Equipment 6
Second Chance: Mind Control
Teamwork 2
Leadership
Attractive 2
Languages
Uncanny Dodge
Benefit: Wealth 1
Chokehold
Improved Trip
Improved Hold

(18)

Equipment:
Rangedx2, strength based (Compound Bow) damage 5 with multiattack (20) Alternate effect x2 (2) stun ammo (1)
1: Stink bomb: Ranged Cloud Area Affliction 6 (Resisted by Fortitude; Dazed and Vision Impaired, Stunned and Vision Disabled, Incapacitated), sense-dependent (smell)
2: Explosive (per utility belt)
Smart phone with recording (4) 3 remaining

Protection (noticble)* 6: 4
Immunity (Bullets)*: 3
Super-Speed* 3*: 7
Flight (platform: Phantom Horse) 6*: 4
Deflect 4*: 7

Complications:
Motivation: Practice: The character is a competition archer. What better way to learn than to keep having a master archer show you how it's done?
Can not destroy historical artifacts when transformed. Arms, armor and battle constructs are exempted if being actively used in combat (Part of the armor's backstory.).
Can not transform in front of others without blowing secret identity (Is this a flaw, complication or part of the reduction for for transformation powers?)

[Beleriphon]

I just looked over the SRD and tried building a character. Is this build legal? Any suggestions? Concept is someone who calls a suit of armor that used to belong to a master archer.

150 point total (actually have some left over for corrections and fine tuning)
All abilities marked with * are linked to the armor, which is removable (I didn't apply the reduction for the numbers listed as the math is more friendly to adding them all up first). A standard action summons the armor (an activation flaw) as long at least one piece is possessed (typically the bracer).
Strength +2: 4
Stamina +2: 4
Agility: +2 4
Dexterity +3: 6
Fighting +2: 4
Intellect +4: 8
Presence +3: 6
Awareness -2: -4 (the character's obliviousness is a character flaw in the RP sense)
(32)
Enhanced Traits
Strength + 5: 8*
Stamina + 5: 8*
Agility +2: 2*
Dexterity: +4: 6*
Fighting +3: 4*
Presence +2: 2*
Awareness +4: 6*
(36)*

I think this looks right, as far the math goes.

Defenses:
Dodge: ?
Fortitude: ?
Parry: ?
Toughness: ?
Will: ?
(not sure what to boost or if I even need to)

Dodge: +4 from Agility
Fort: +7 from Stamina
Parry: +5 base from Fighting
Tough: +7 from Stamina
Will: +4 from Awareness

So yes, I would absolutely boost those to their relevant maxes, taking into account trade-offs. So as longs as the total of your Dodge or Parry + Toughness isn't more than 20, and your total for Will and Fortitude aren't more than 20 you're golden at PL10..

skills:
Inate
Acrobatics +2: 1
Atheltics +2: 1
Close Combat (Grapple) +4: 2
Deception +2: 1
Expertise (Science) +4: 2
Persuasion +2: 1
Ranged Combat (bows) +4: 2
Technology +4: 2


Activated
Athletics +8*: 2
Expertise (Tactics) +8*: 2
Expertise (History) +8*: 2
Intimidation +8: 2*
Ranged Combat (bows) +10*: 3
Perception +16*: 6

12 + (22)

So are these just you're skills without an points invested vs those with points invested? If so looks fine to me.

Advantages:
Improved Grab
Equipment 6
Second Chance: Mind Control
Teamwork 2
Leadership
Attractive 2
Languages
Uncanny Dodge
Benefit: Wealth 1
Chokehold
Improved Trip
Improved Hold

(18)

Nothing usual here. That said as a personal preference as a GM I like having rationales for stuff like Second Chance that are thematic to the character, although there's nothing wrong with what you have in general.

Equipment:
Rangedx2, strength based (Compound Bow) damage 5 with multiattack (20) Alternate effect x2 (2) stun ammo (1)
1: Stink bomb: Ranged Cloud Area Affliction 6 (Resisted by Fortitude; Dazed and Vision Impaired, Stunned and Vision Disabled, Incapacitated), sense-dependent (smell)
2: Explosive (per utility belt)
Smart phone with recording (4) 3 remaining

That bow should probalby be an easily removable power not a piece of equipment.

Protection (noticble)* 6: 4
Immunity (Bullets)*: 3
Super-Speed* 3*: 7
Flight (platform: Phantom Horse) 6*: 4
Deflect 4*: 7

Noticeable on protection makes it extra noticeable, like it hums or glows in the dark. Most regular effects are by defulat obvious, if not particularly so, adding noticeable makes an effect especially obvious, so just keep that in mind.

Complications:
Motivation: Practice: The character is a competition archer. What better way to learn than to keep having a master archer show you how it's done?
Can not destroy historical artifacts when transformed. Arms, armor and battle constructs are exempted if being actively used in combat (Part of the armor's backstory.).
Can not transform in front of others without blowing secret identity (Is this a flaw, complication or part of the reduction for for transformation powers?)

Yes, the Secret Identity is a legitimate complication. I'd just leave it at that, as its not any different than Superman or Batman needing to hide to change their clothes from business suits into super-suits.

[deuxhero]

Thanks.

All the listed skills are just the raw points invested. First block is untransformed, second block is transformed

Second Chance: Mind Control is because the character has two minds (the ancient master archer and the guy wearing the armor) so mind control needs to overcome both.

Noticeable on protection makes it extra noticeable, like it hums or glows in the dark

For example Noticeable Protection may take the form of armored plates or a tough, leathery-looking hide, making it clear the character is tougher than normal.

???

Will correct the bow. I thought it would be equipment because "Archaic Weapons" is a category under "equipment" in the SRD and never said if the "cost" referred to character points or equipment points.

edit: Not sure how I wound up with deflect costing 7. Should be 2 points.

strength based rangedx2 (+2 per rank) multiattack (+1 per rank) damage 7 with 2 alternate effects (+2), easily removable and activated (16)
alternate effects: Sooped up tear gas and explosives
enhanced dodge 3 (1, removable)
parry +2 (natural)
enhanced fort 5 (3, removable)
enhanced will 4 (2, removable)

should leave me 4 points. Suggestions?

[Sith_Happens]

(the character's obliviousness is a character flaw in the RP sense)

In that case you can probably have it as a complication as well.

Equipment:
Rangedx2, strength based (Compound Bow) damage 5 with multiattack (20) Alternate effect x2 (2) stun ammo (1)
1: Stink bomb: Ranged Cloud Area Affliction 6 (Resisted by Fortitude; Dazed and Vision Impaired, Stunned and Vision Disabled, Incapacitated), sense-dependent (smell)
2: Explosive (per utility belt)

As already said, this isn't equipment.

Can not transform in front of others without blowing secret identity (Is this a flaw, complication or part of the reduction for for transformation powers?)

Having a secret identity in the first place is a complication, blowing your cover if you transform in front of people is just cause and effect.

Noticeable on protection makes it extra noticeable, like it hums or glows in the dark. Most regular effects are by defulat obvious, if not particularly so, adding noticeable makes an effect especially obvious, so just keep that in mind.

This is wrong. Continuous and permanent effects are inherently subtle unless you apply Noticeable. Protection is even given as the example:

For example Noticeable Protection may take the form of armored plates or a tough, leathery-looking hide, making it clear the character is tougher than normal.

Will correct the bow. I thought it would be equipment because "Archaic Weapons" is a category under "equipment" in the SRD and never said if the "cost" referred to character points or equipment points.

Here's the rule of thumb for equipment versus devices:

1. Is it portable?

If "No," it's equipment.

If "Yes," go to 2.

2. Could you buy it ready-made on Amazon?

If "Yes," it's equipment.

If "No," it's a device.

strength based rangedx2 (+2 per rank) multiattack (+1 per rank) damage 7 with 2 alternate effects (+2), easily removable and activated (16)

Strength-based Damage 7 with Strength 8 is a total of 15 damage, five above cap with a +10 attack bonus. The bow only needs two ranks (which will make one of the other effects the primary, but as far as I know that distinction is completely irrelevant in play).

[deuxhero]

You actually can buy a bow on Amazon though, it's even has its own category (Sports & Outdoors>Sports & Fitness>Hunting & Fishing>Archery>Bows).

Would riding around on a phantom horse get noticible or is it part of "platform"?

[Sith_Happens]

You actually can buy a bow on Amazon though, it's even has its own category (Sports & Outdoors>Sports & Fitness>Hunting & Fishing>Archery>Bows).

Yes, but (according to the archaic weapons tables) that bow is Damage 3, not Damage 7. Although since you only need Damage 2 anyways... Except that making it equipment means you only add half your Strength which means you need Damage 5... Yeah, ask the GM.

Would riding around on a phantom horse get noticible or is it part of "platform"?

Flight starts out as sustained and is therefore noticeable.

[deuxhero]

Just realized I misread the example of Stonewall

That reduces the total cost of all three effects by 2 character points

Means that the costs AFTER totaling are reduced by 2, not each effect being reduced by 2. That's going to require an overhaul as that's about 30 points incorrectly deducted. Ouch.

Piecemealing the transformation (Helm boosts mental stats and skill, boots give speed and flight, armor gives most of the rest. Toughness boost is spit between them) will help (less than 6 seconds activation felt a bit short for the concept anyways)

[Dienekes]

Hello all, I hope no one has asked this one before and I missed it (I just glanced over a few pages to check, sorry)

Would you guys know how to give allies different buffs?
My initial thought was
Enhanced Advantage: Favored Environment: Effects Others and Self, Variable Descriptor 2, Burst 60 feet, Quirk allies must hear: to get a 5pp ability that gives all allies within 60 feet Favored Environment where I would use variable descriptor to switch to the appropriate environment. I think that's how variable descriptor would work, honestly I find the given definition of variable descriptor confusing.

So that got me to an idea of doing an Array of a bunch of different buffs for allies, such as adding Penetration to attack, or giving a few ranks of Improved Initiative. So, on that line of thinking, would it be possible to have a pool of pp to spend on granting various benefits set aside, or do I have to go through all potential advantages to make a big array list?

Thanks for your help.

[Rakaydos]

Does this thread also include advice on M&M-based games like DC Superheros?

I've mostly got stats together for a hero that is a swarm of mini spidertanks (as a blatant Ghost in the Shell reference) but I wanna make sure I'm doing it right.

[JustIgnoreMe]

Would you guys know how to give allies different buffs?
My initial thought was
Enhanced Advantage: Favored Environment: Effects Others and Self, Variable Descriptor 2, Burst 60 feet, Quirk allies must hear: to get a 5pp ability that gives all allies within 60 feet Favored Environment where I would use variable descriptor to switch to the appropriate environment. I think that's how variable descriptor would work, honestly I find the given definition of variable descriptor confusing.

So that got me to an idea of doing an Array of a bunch of different buffs for allies, such as adding Penetration to attack, or giving a few ranks of Improved Initiative. So, on that line of thinking, would it be possible to have a pool of pp to spend on granting various benefits set aside, or do I have to go through all potential advantages to make a big array list?

Thanks for your help.

I asked about buffs a few pages back, but I didn't think about Favoured Environment. Good idea!

Giving others enhanced initiative, or movement powers, or healing/regen/immortality, seems to be doable in M&M.

Increasing other people's powers/stats is possible but not really productive: Power Level limits come into play.

Adding things to other people's powers (like Penetrating, or Dimensional, or whatever) is possivle and might even be really useful, depending on your GM.

Does this thread also include advice on M&M-based games like DC Superheros?

I've mostly got stats together for a hero that is a swarm of mini spidertanks (as a blatant Ghost in the Shell reference) but I wanna make sure I'm doing it right.

DC Superheroes is 3rd Ed M&M, sure. In fact aren't the systems identical?

Show us the spider-swarm!

[Qwertystop]

Increasing other people's powers/stats is possible but not really productive: Power Level limits come into play.

Adding things to other people's powers (like Penetrating, or Dimensional, or whatever) is possivle and might even be really useful, depending on your GM.

Might it make sense as a team optimization thing? Two people, one has a lot of different abilities well below the PL caps, the other has powers all based around enhancing the powers of others. Or would it not save enough points to bother having a lot of really weak powers? It's definitely an idea I've seen before, or a variant of it.

[Sith_Happens]

I think that's how variable descriptor would work, honestly I find the given definition of variable descriptor confusing.

Descriptors are the "fluffy" parts of the power, like whether your Ranged Damage attack is a blast of fire or a bolt of lightning. With Variable Descriptor it can be either or both.

So that got me to an idea of doing an Array of a bunch of different buffs for allies, such as adding Penetration to attack, or giving a few ranks of Improved Initiative. So, on that line of thinking, would it be possible to have a pool of pp to spend on granting various benefits set aside, or do I have to go through all potential advantages to make a big array list?

Thanks for your help.

It depends on how many different buffs you want to have at your disposal. If the answer is more than a handful then Variable (Affects Others) is the easiest way to do it.

Does this thread also include advice on M&M-based games like DC Superheros?

I've mostly got stats together for a hero that is a swarm of mini spidertanks (as a blatant Ghost in the Shell reference) but I wanna make sure I'm doing it right.

Fire away.

Might it make sense as a team optimization thing? Two people, one has a lot of different abilities well below the PL caps, the other has powers all based around enhancing the powers of others. Or would it not save enough points to bother having a lot of really weak powers? It's definitely an idea I've seen before, or a variant of it.

I haven't actually crunched the numbers but I don't see how it would come out to being appreciably less expensive than two self-sufficient characters with their powers at cap.

[Qwertystop]

I haven't built many characters. How common is it that, after raising your main powers to cap, you have some spare-change points that can't raise anything to a useful value?

If it's common, you could use those points to get the minimum rank in something else that's more niche, and the support teammate could boost or to cap when needed.

[Rakaydos]

DC Superheroes is 3rd Ed M&M, sure. In fact aren't the systems identical?

Show us the spider-swarm!

Well, my approach to the spider swarm aspect was to stack effects onto Permanant Summon until I hit a nice r ound 10/rank (I economized slightly later on). This meant that after spending 60 pp on a number of 90 xp spiderbots, I would have 90 points left myself.
Even after economizing the summon down to 7/rank+1, I used the 90 xp PL10 bots as the base for the character- one bot is a little smarter than the others.
They have no stamina of course and have immunity/life support, and I also gave every bot a 1week immortal "build a replacement" ability

one thing I would like to have is a combination "just a doombot" and "assume direct control", shifting the "hero" mantle between members of the swarm, even when killed. Any suggestions?

[JustIgnoreMe]

one thing I would like to have is a combination "just a doombot" and "assume direct control", shifting the "hero" mantle between members of the swarm, even when killed. Any suggestions?

I had to think hard about this.

How about a Teleport? Hear me out... A Teleport that can only take you to somewhere one of your Doombots is, that switches your position with the Doombot. Make it Subtle 2 (unless it's detectable as a transmission signal or engrams or something). I don't think there's a pre-existing "Switch Positions" limitation, but you might look at Turnabout, for example.

That should give you the effect you were after (having your primary character effectively swap minds with one of your drones).

The Teleport range is effectively the limit of your transmission. As a movement power it's pretty poor: you can only move somewhere your drones have already reached, so you'll want some other movement power too.

To do it while dead might be trickier, but I think there's a Reaction Advantage or a Trigger for that.

What do you think? Workable?

-edit to add- Gaaah that won't quite work. You'll still be suffering from all the damage you had before you teleported, which isn't what we want at all.

It'd be too powerful to handwave the position switch to include totally healing you, so you'll also want a linked Healing power, self only, only up to the same level of damage the new drone-body had.