General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

[ChaosArchon]

So I'm making a sorcerer Exalt and was pouring over all the possible spells I can pick up and can anyone tell me the point of the Unconquerable Self? Is it basically a spell to let you reroll if you get bored with your character?

[golentan]

So I'm making a sorcerer Exalt and was pouring over all the possible spells I can pick up and can anyone tell me the point of the Unconquerable Self? Is it basically a spell to let you reroll if you get bored with your character?

It lets you avoid interrogation or the like, if you get captured with no chance of rescue...

[Lix Lorn]

I once took it on a dragonblood who was dabbling in necromancy and necrotic essence. She didn't trust herself, especially since she had a weakness for hot people and her tutor was a high essence abyssal lady who knew of this weakness and was using it.

So... the idea was that if she became a threat to her team... poof.
The game died, though.

[Guancyto]

It's a terrible spell to buy as a PC.

It's a great spell to put on an NPC, that way they can shatter into crystal shards or leave behind an empty robe and a lightsaber that somehow (no one's really sure how) finds its way back to their pupil. Never underestimate the power of being able to face the music with style.

The difference lies in whether or not you have to pay XP for it, which is why my favorite sorcery rewrite lets a sorcerer cast it merely by virtue of being a sorcerer. (They also get some other goodies for initiation, but it helps that whole "sorcerers are weird" thing.)

[TimeWizard]

Ablation of Brass and Fire, perfect Parry, MoeP:I pg. 111
Sands Through Fingers Defense, perfect Dodge(into immateriality), MoeP:I pg. 123
Counter-Conceptual Imposition, perfect Parry, MoeP:I pg. 133
Who Strikes the Wind, perfect Dodge, MoeP:I pg. 139
Bloodless Murk Evasion, perfect Dodge, MoeP:I pg. 157
Bitter Heart Unbleeding, perfect Soak, Broken-Winged Crane pg. 42

Honorable Mention: Bitterness Beyond Wounds: imperfect Dodge, Scroll of Errata pg. 93

It's important to note that Sand Through Fingers is vulnerable to attacks that hit immaterial targets.

[Phelix-Mu]

It's a terrible spell to buy as a PC.

It's a great spell to put on an NPC, that way they can shatter into crystal shards or leave behind an empty robe and a lightsaber that somehow (no one's really sure how) finds its way back to their pupil. Never underestimate the power of being able to face the music with style.

The difference lies in whether or not you have to pay XP for it, which is why my favorite sorcery rewrite lets a sorcerer cast it merely by virtue of being a sorcerer. (They also get some other goodies for initiation, but it helps that whole "sorcerers are weird" thing.)

I kinda like the built-in suicide pill for sorcerers. Hehe, definitely fodder for good interrogation sequences. Can the Solar stunt his interrogation high enough that even the man in the process of being erased from history has to answer? Now that is suitably awesome.

[Rockphed]

I kinda like the built-in suicide pill for sorcerers. Hehe, definitely fodder for good interrogation sequences. Can the Solar stunt his interrogation high enough that even the man in the process of being erased from history has to answer? Now that is suitably awesome.

The man being erased from history stops erasing himself from history to answer the question posed by the being of light and justice standing before him. The perfidy of the solar's interrogation is not that he somehow coerces the answer out of the inquisited, but that he coerces the desire to answer out of the prisoner without hurting him at all.

[ChaosArchon]

So I'm about to finally make an Exalt that's not a Solar but the issue is I'm not sure how to deal with Exaltation scenes for a Sidereal? I know for a Solar they basically decided to try to do the impossible/a great act of bravery and then Exalt, Abyssals are at the edge of death and are offered a deal, DBs are born that way, and Infernals have the chance to do something brave but fail and a Yozi offers them power. But beyond that I'm not sure how other Exaltation scenes are supposed to be like?

[golentan]

So I'm about to finally make an Exalt that's not a Solar but the issue is I'm not sure how to deal with Exaltation scenes for a Sidereal? I know for a Solar they basically decided to try to do the impossible/a great act of bravery and then Exalt, Abyssals are at the edge of death and are offered a deal, DBs are born that way, and Infernals have the chance to do something brave but fail and a Yozi offers them power. But beyond that I'm not sure how other Exaltation scenes are supposed to be like?

Well, a sidereal exalts at a moment of destiny, the loom of fate having prepared them for their destined place as a vizier since they were little. One moment they're bouncing along, the next they have a profound insight into something the universe is supposed to be. Lunars exalt having survived a tremendous hardship: they face certain death and survive, often in a drawn out process: the moment of exaltation is the moment they decide to press onward in spite of it being easier to lie down and wait for death. Terrestrial Exaltation often comes at an unpredictable moment, but can be seen coming to a certain extent and often is triggered by extreme stress or need, similar to other exaltation. Alchemicals exalt the moment they take their first breath, having been built for their role by very clever women and men as a very complicated machine, knowing the rough details of the world they're born into and full of memories from the lives that earned them the capacity to exalt. I think that's everyone.

[ChaosArchon]

So for my Exaltation scene, my guy will just be walking around and then *bam* he knows all the names of the gods in Yu-Shan as well as which god owes him 5 dinar from poker night a century ago and still needs to pay up?

[golentan]

So for my Exaltation scene, my guy will just be walking around and then *bam* he knows all the names of the gods in Yu-Shan as well as which god owes him 5 dinar from poker night a century ago and still needs to pay up?

More he'll see something that destiny says should be one way but needs some push to get there, and understand intrinsically that destiny says this is so and it is his responsibility to make it so.

[Sith_Happens]

Don't future Sidereals usually get whisked off to Yu-Shan for advance training? Or is that just Keychain of Creation?

[Qwertystop]

More than any of the others, the Sidereal exaltation is a job.

So first off, he'll probably have been recruited/kidnapped as a baby and raised/trained with the full knowledge that he's going to Exalt.

But second - yeah, what Golentan said. He sees something broken in fate that it's his job to fix, and something clicks such that he realizes that and knows how to fix it.

[ChaosArchon]

Gotcha, thanks guys. Seems like Sidereals are the child-solider/spies of Exalt... I feel kinda bad now for thinking they're all pompous pricks

Small question, I'm pouring over SoE and the MoEP:Sidereal and was wondering prior to creating my character whether there are any changes in Sidereal chargen such as how it's abilities are treated?

[golentan]

Gotcha, thanks guys. Seems like Sidereals are the child-solider/spies of Exalt... I feel kinda bad now for thinking they're all pompous pricks

You should. There aren't really bad classes of people, only bad individuals. For every Peleps Deled or Anys Syn there's a Ledaal Kes or a Crimson Banner Executioner.

[Hiro Protagonest]

You should. There aren't really bad classes of people, only bad individuals. For every Peleps Deled or Anys Syn there's a Ledaal Kes or a Crimson Banner Executioner.

...Kes is a Sidereal?

[golentan]

...Kes is a Sidereal?

He was the good dragonblooded counterpart to Peleps Deled. I referenced both DBs and Sids as two groups that get a lot of undeserved hate because the solars are the default and people hold up the usurpation as some horrible cosmic injustice rather than a political struggle of dubious morality on both sides.

[Phelix-Mu]

Interestingly, Terrestrials are the only ones that I really haven't hated so much in the campaign that I am running. Lunars are a close second, but pretty much all the Exalt-types seem to be the crystallization of the subjective morality spectrum in Exalted. To me and my friends playing, the Solars seem every bit as bad as the Realm/Sids and their little control Creation game. The Usurpation was just the latest in a long series of really bad ideas perpetrated by really powerful beings that decided that the system of control needed new masters, and the results are just as morally reprehensible as any of the other late First Age stuff, or Primordial War blowing parts of Creation off the map in the name of the gods/the Primordials.

Since I've been consumed with a number of the D&D alignment threads lately, I have to say that the thing that I like most about Exalted is that judging right and wrong in this setting is basically an exercise in futility. Everyone is dirty, and if you want virtue, you have to forge it from whole cloth, because even the UCS is on semi-permanent vacation in his pleasure dome. And your virtue? It only resembles irl virtue if it isn't run on the backs of brainwashing, mental domination, enslaved servitor races, or charms that remake everything to suit your whims. So if a Solar wants to invent black/white morality, that's okay. That is awesome. But it's also going to be more or less unique, since even She Who Lives in Her Name and Princess Magnificent (and to a lesser extent Eye and Seven Despairs) have ponied up to the table of "love and peace" for one reason or another. Are they "good" or "virtuous?" My my, no, certainly not. The characters gain limit for every scene in which they are in Princess Magnificent's presence, and whenever they go along with one of her sketchier plans, but they have in turn been very good in goading her toward screwing her masters in a way that is in the best interests of Creation, so, hey, maybe it's worth it. And She Who Lives in Her Name only seems reasonable because the most reasonable/least nutter GSP on the map is a Defiler of the opinion that 99% of Creation is pretty much okay, as long as measures are taken to subtly reign in the influence of "free will" for the average mortal.

Clearly, I try to play even the black end of Exalted's gray-upon-gray morality toward gray. It's no fun if, even though everyone's motives are suspect, that somehow some of the power players are unmistakably bad. Princess Magnificent may yet avoid her fate, and at least Son of Crows has been more or less reformed by the Solar doctor in the party. We shall yet see if the party's interaction with the Wyld will shape a non- "rain of doom" fate for Creation. And whether the Sixth (and the Seventh!) Maidens have anything to say about that.

[Gensh]

I have made a discovery; forgive me if this has already been brought up.

In the papal bull Exsurge Domine, Pope Leo X gave Martin Luther and his followers an ultimatum requiring them to come to Rome and beg forgiveness or be excommunicated. He opened by indirectly referring to Luther as the "wild boar from the forest." This bull was the cause of the Protestant Reformation; the Boar and the Forest are the Yozis who betray the Reclamation.

[Phelix-Mu]

I have made a discovery; forgive me if this has already been brought up.

In the papal bull Exsurge Domine, Pope Leo X gave Martin Luther and his followers an ultimatum requiring them to come to Rome and beg forgiveness or be excommunicated. He opened by indirectly referring to Luther as the "wild boar from the forest." This bull was the cause of the Protestant Reformation; the Boar and the Forest are the Yozis who betray the Reclamation.

Never underestimate the quasi-mythological/historical references of Exalted.

Interestingly, this puts TED in the position of Pope, in which the pope is infallible in his proclamations. A bit of delicious irony there; TED infallibly correct.

Man, they really should have used less cool when designing the Yozis. Not that they are cool in-character, but from a design standpoint, the flavor is pretty boss.

EDIT: Wikipedia tells me "exsurge Domine" means "arise, o Lord." Another arch-reference for Exalted.

[Kerinserval]

What would happen if a non-spirit learned a spirit charm which mentions a domain, for example: Hurry Home, or Spice of Custodial Delectation? Would the domain be the same or derived from the spirit the character learned it from; or would it be completely different or is there some rule which forbids non-spirits learning such charms?

[Recaiden]

Would the domain be the same or derived from the spirit the character learned it from.

This is what happens. Non-spirits learn the version used by the spirit that taught them.

[TheCountAlucard]

What would happen if a non-spirit learned a spirit charm which mentions a domain, for example: Hurry Home, or Spice of Custodial Delectation? Would the domain be the same or derived from the spirit the character learned it from; or would it be completely different or is there some rule which forbids non-spirits learning such charms?

A little of Column A, a little of Column B - that is to say, you generally can't learn other splats' Charms, but if for some reason you're able to, you learn that splat's version of that Charm. If a field-god has Hurry Home, it probably takes him to his field, so if your Eclipse learns the field-god's Hurry Home, it'll take him... to the field-god's field.

However, if you can learn spirit Charms natively (for instance, let's say you're a God-Blooded), the version you'd learn would affect your domain (or if you're God-Blooded, your parent's domain).

[Rikandur_Azebol]

Interestingly, this puts TED in the position of Pope, in which the pope is infallible in his proclamations. A bit of delicious irony there; TED infallibly correct.

Heh. And this is how the totally evil World of Darkness was born.

[ChaosArchon]

Heh. And this is how the totally evil World of Darkness was born.

What is the Pope in WoD? A vampire? werewolf? faerie?

[Lord Raziere]

What is the Pope in WoD? A vampire? werewolf? faerie?

If you believe the Seers of the Throne? one of the highest members of the Ministry of Paternoster. but they like their propaganda and lies about being more in control of the world than they really are.

[Rater202]

Heh. And this is how the totally evil World of Darkness was born.

And this is why I'm really really really hoping that Onyx Path get's permission to do that official Exalted Vs The World of Darkness Shard book they were talking about.

I want to have a Dawn Caste leading a squad of hunters againts a Sabbat Gang backed by an Abyssal gosh dern it.

[Mewtarthio]

What is the Pope in WoD? A vampire? werewolf? faerie?

For obvious reasons, they haven't given any canonical answers on the subject (no pun intended). There is a ghoul who runs a Conspiracy of supernaturally-empowered vampire hunters, but I don't think he has any sort of official sanction.

Now, in general, highly visible public figures (like the Pope) are going to be, at best, minor splats. The major splats are generally either too removed from humanity to work like that (eg vampires being nocturnal) or have good reason to avoid the public eye (eg changelings not wanting to broadcast their Mien to every loyalist with a network connection). Mages could pull it off, if they had some serious political clout--The Seers are obviously in the best position for that. Sin-Eaters don't really have anything standing in their way, as far as I know. Demons, obviously, have it easy: Just get someone to sell his soul in exchange for a political position, then cash it in and take his place. Granted, a highly visible Cover probably won't last too long, but once it does break, nobody's going to remember it, so it's not like we'd be able to notice anything.

[golentan]

Hey, got a question for you guys. What is the weirdest charm combo you've ever seen?

Edit: NON-RAKSHA! Exalted and Spirits only!

[Rikandur_Azebol]

Rater 202, Exalted ... by their very natures as unstoppable forces of destruction would wreck WoD setting so bad that Raksha from Balor Church would be envious. Even oWoD mages with Arete 5 would have hard time against noob Dragon-Blooded, let alone Celestial.

But it's quite easy to make WoD adapt to Exalted rules. Vampires are half-abyssal ghosts bound in their own bodies trough blood curse. Mages have Thaumaturgy embedded into their bodies but since everyone forgot about Trials of Sorcery ... they fumble around calling learning Sorcery an Ascension/Enlightement.
Furrballs are beastmen with alternate shapes who have good shamanic relations with spirits and can learn spirit charms.
Ghosts ... they are ghosts, simply said all the hard work to regulate Underworld went Oblivion and Malestroms happen, they all have Whispers.
Fae are remnants of half-fae, stripped of all Graces or even knowledge of them, stuck in some weird oath-oneiromancy-joke.
Hunters ... know charm or two from some anti-critter TMA.

What is the Pope in WoD? A vampire? werewolf? faerie?

Since Ebon Dragon is playing bondage with Weaver ... I honestly don't know, probably just ol' human with Cult 5. And ... when I talk WoD I usually mean oWoD. More familiar with the setting.
While I like Fae of nWoD by strides, Fae style being nice and high-idealised feudalism doesn't hold water to me, especially Commoners that the fae-taken dread so much. ^^

Golentan, all SMAs all of them !

Also Eyes of the Unconquered Sun vs that Abyssal charm that makes you go bonkers if you look too closely at what Abyssal wrote. Enjoy !