General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

[Rater202]

Why are you guys assuming the crossover would be between the Classic World of Darkness and Exalted?

Exalted was originally pitched as the ancient, mythical history of the Old World of Darkness.

As such, each "clasic" exalt type(Those from first edition) analog to one of the CWoD supernatural splats

Solars=Hunters(And infact, hunters are explicitly either Solars with severly weakened power, or cheep mass produced knock off solars)

Lunars=Werewolves/other shape-changers

Sids=Mages, mostly the Akaisatc brotherhood, but some bits of other traditions

Dragonblooded=Kuejin. Only happens in specific races/bloodlines. Also, if you note, the signature Shintai of the individual subsplats of Kuejin analog to the underworld versions of the Five Elements

Abyssals=vampires, though some of their powers also analog closely to wraiths

[Sith_Happens]

But that's in New York, Caine's a Cabbie in L.A.

I'm positive there's at least one Discipline that lets you be in two places at once at ten dots. Or lets you drive from L.A. to New York and back in an hour. Either way, it's why he tried to charge so much.

[Rikandur_Azebol]

War charms, White Reaper Style, and half a dozen other things are good for dealing with zerging tactics. And for vampires, a single integrity charm annihilates all forms of kindred for a single mote to flare your anima for the scene.

Ghouls with automatic-guns. Vohzd with some helicopter hail-cannons, if you have to be obnoxious. Hornets or bees feed nitroglicerin for really nasty tactics.

Day long shaping defenses (target number warping is always shaping in exalted mechanics).

Don't work unless it's specific, Golentan. It doesn't harm Exalt. It makes stuff harder to do for Exalt. Only Infernals and Siddies have anything to do with such in Exalted. Plus mage's magic works in Creation. So Shaping defenses protect from direct nastiness. Nothing more.

Ghost Eating Technique and equivalents eat mummies for breakfast.

GET works only on Spirits, had you forgotten ? Mummies count as alive if memory serves me well. They would have to dispel Great Ritual first, if it is doable in first place.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Antes are "just" Exalted equivalents of Vampires. Normal vampires can get them, if they know what they are doing, and I was just referring to one of ToJ scenarios my buddy played trough. It turned into comedy where all vamps all across the world felt death-pangs of Antes so bad they died, ST was somewhat disappointed that Ghoul PC commuted suicide to turn Vampire himself afterwards.

He got staked, thrown into ocean, and ten thousands years later arose as "new" Caine.

[Andreaz]

And that's exactly why I hope a crossover is never officially written.

[Rater202]

GET works only on Spirits, had you forgotten ? Mummies count as alive if memory serves me well. They would have to dispel Great Ritual first, if it is doable in first place.

Yes, mummies are alive.

Goletan is also assuming that the crossover will be using 2E Exalt Rules(It won't, it'll be using 3E converted to CWoD20), so his arguments have no ground to stand on right now, becuase we don't know how hose charms are going to work or evewn if they'll still be there.

But, even though I agree with you, and in reply to the bolded part.

"Impossible just means an exalt hasn't tried hard enough".

[Lord Raziere]

"Impossible just means an exalt hasn't tried hard enough".

Or means Unexalting, time travel or resurrection. But either definition works I guess.

Speaking of impossible things, I hope we get the Exalted 3rd edition core book soon and that it is suddenly full of magitech. But as long as I'm wishing for things that will never happen, I also wish that I will become immortal, that all transgender people will someday get an easy and quick way to transition and that the universe will revise itself to make sure I don't go insane from my immortality.

but enough about wishes, hypotheticals and never-will-bes. I see that your discussing an Exalted/WoD crossover! That is incredibly dangerous. You should take this Magnucaine with you, just in case. Magnucaine Fact: Magnucaine facts are better than any fact about Chuck Norris. Other Magnucaine fact: The Magnucaine is so awesome that it makes this old joke new again, despite how meta I'm being.

As for the crossover itself: the WoD is all about supernatural people hiding from the big guys out there ruling out in the open. Solars coming in and taking over just replaces one person they need/want to hide from to another, more powerful person they definitely need to hide from. The Seers of the Throne shrug and begin infiltrating the Exalt's organization and persuading them to continue the tyranny, lies and oppression, the God-Machine adjusts its plans to account for these new variables and continues onward with the new status quo, The Demons have yet another force they cannot trust, Mages have yet another mystery they want to solve, Vampires have yet another predator they need to be wary of, Changelings have yet another larger-than-life seemingly beautiful yet dangerous force of people they are afraid of, Sin-Eaters will just smile and say "Exalts? they'll just eventually die like anyone else man" and continue partying, Hunters have yet another thing to hunt and die against, and all will continue as is.

Except the Werewolves. they will be ticked when Exalts start doing the "spirit emissary" thing better than them. and if we want to go non-canon, the Geniuses will be angrily shouting "HOW ARE THEY DOING THAT!?" at the antics of the Twilight Castes, thus gathering up all the equipment they can and trying to investigate how these people are making all this stuff without it all falling apart. Because darn it, you didn't spend all this time trying to figure out why your cool stuff falls apart when normal people see it only for some jerk with a shiny mark on his forehead to suddenly come along and accomplish with ease what you always wanted to do, then proceed to change the world with it!

Edit: as for Prometheans? eh. their story doesn't really change no matter the setting. you could set a Promethean game on Mars 300,000 years in the future and it would still be the same. Exalts just mean the Promethean has a dim hope of gaining even cooler powers when they finally become human, nothing more. Though Exalts being around might mean MORE Prometheans being made, what with Twilight shenanigans and such....

[Guancyto]

GET works only on Spirits, had you forgotten ? Mummies count as alive if memory serves me well. They would have to dispel Great Ritual first, if it is doable in first place.

Oh, those poor, poor mummies.

See, GET applies to spirits, yes. That's also true of the Lunar, Sidereal, Alchemical and Terrestrial ways of getting the technique.

Guess who that leaves?

Oh yes.

The Infernals and the Abyssals. They don't care if you're a spirit or not (or rather, they have upgrade charms that let them not care). Only you know, instead of being (mostly) painlessly turned into component motes, you're tormented for ten thousand years before dying, or just tormented forever, or thrown into Oblivion.

[Rikandur_Azebol]

Guancyto, Mummies auto-ressurect after set period of time. Only 1ed ones needed to gather Ba in Underworld. 2ed ones just wait several years to decades to centuries between short "lives". They work like mortals with Immmortal Body mutation, I think, and these can be perma-killed only by soul-destruction. Otherwise they come back. Thus if CMAs work in WoD setting the Glorious Wood Dragon Style capstone charm might work on mummy that doesn't have proper protective amulet on herself.

Lord Raziere, Un-exalting -> Use Daiklave, repeat until satysfied with results ! Or get Essence 10 Yozi charm that unmakes your humanity enough for Exaltation to go away.
Time-travel -> Totally possible. One way though. Or going trough Wyld and breaking the universe in the process.
Resurrection -> Um ... for anything short of Celestial Exalt, doable with little preparation and not caring for consequences. Clone Terrestial -> wait till blood Exalts him, put your mind's copy inside. Among Celestial Exalted only Lunars have something along the lines with Chimerism.

As for your cross-over idea that "so much changed to stay the same" ... I kind of disagree, Exalted tend to be as subtle as elephant in China porcelain store. Suddenly popping up on WoD Earth, exaltations would cause WWIII at the very least. Abyssals would, easily, take over ghosts, Underworld and vampires. Sin-Eaters would bow down or be hunted species. Because unlike most other beings, Exalted don't hide all that much. They stick out like sore thumbs by their very nature. Of in case of all Night Caste equivalents their deeds stick out like sore thumbs.

Uratha would have to cope with Lunars. Poor Uratha.

One thing for sure, WoD setting would change big time with introduction of Exalted. Geniuses might be happy IF Twilight-types find how to keep the Wonders stable in presence of mundanes. Or if they translate Wonders into normal technology. Since Seers seem to play hard against various odds and are used to constant conspiracy they might have a chance of remaining unnoticed. For a time.

God-Machine ? What it is ... and how the nWoD demons are different from oWoD D:tF ?

[Rater202]

Or means Unexalting, time travel or resurrection. But either definition works I guess.

Speaking of impossible things, I hope we get the Exalted 3rd edition core book soon and that it is suddenly full of magitech. But as long as I'm wishing for things that will never happen, I also wish that I will become immortal, that all transgender people will someday get an easy and quick way to transition and that the universe will revise itself to make sure I don't go insane from my immortality.

but enough about wishes, hypotheticals and never-will-bes. I see that your discussing an Exalted/WoD crossover! That is incredibly dangerous. You should take this Magnucaine with you, just in case. Magnucaine Fact: Magnucaine facts are better than any fact about Chuck Norris. Other Magnucaine fact: The Magnucaine is so awesome that it makes this old joke new again, despite how meta I'm being.

As for the crossover itself: the WoD is all about supernatural people hiding from the big guys out there ruling out in the open. Solars coming in and taking over just replaces one person they need/want to hide from to another, more powerful person they definitely need to hide from. The Seers of the Throne shrug and begin infiltrating the Exalt's organization and persuading them to continue the tyranny, lies and oppression, the God-Machine adjusts its plans to account for these new variables and continues onward with the new status quo, The Demons have yet another force they cannot trust, Mages have yet another mystery they want to solve, Vampires have yet another predator they need to be wary of, Changelings have yet another larger-than-life seemingly beautiful yet dangerous force of people they are afraid of, Sin-Eaters will just smile and say "Exalts? they'll just eventually die like anyone else man" and continue partying, Hunters have yet another thing to hunt and die against, and all will continue as is.

Except the Werewolves. they will be ticked when Exalts start doing the "spirit emissary" thing better than them. and if we want to go non-canon, the Geniuses will be angrily shouting "HOW ARE THEY DOING THAT!?" at the antics of the Twilight Castes, thus gathering up all the equipment they can and trying to investigate how these people are making all this stuff without it all falling apart. Because darn it, you didn't spend all this time trying to figure out why your cool stuff falls apart when normal people see it only for some jerk with a shiny mark on his forehead to suddenly come along and accomplish with ease what you always wanted to do, then proceed to change the world with it!

Edit: as for Prometheans? eh. their story doesn't really change no matter the setting. you could set a Promethean game on Mars 300,000 years in the future and it would still be the same. Exalts just mean the Promethean has a dim hope of gaining even cooler powers when they finally become human, nothing more. Though Exalts being around might mean MORE Prometheans being made, what with Twilight shenanigans and such....

1. That's all new world stuff. According to Onyx Path, if they get permision to do this crossover, it'll be with the Old World(The one that's actually connected to Exalted already in it's canon and the canon of exalted 1E)

2. In the Old World, the Supernatural Creatures run the show.

3. Despite the chosen working name(Exalted vs The World of Darkness) It's not planned to be a "who can beat who up" thing, and the Exalted are going to be powered down and rthe Supernaturals powered up to make conflicts more interesting than "Shiny Guy instadusts the Vampire"

4.Suggested plot kicker offer is the Celestial Incarnae returning to Creation thousands o years after beinf locked away, weakened considerably, and trying to figure out what exactly happened to wreck the place while they were gone, while bringing back there Exalted champions to help investigate(Exalting people native to the modern world. not time travel shenanigans)

5. The Hunters, during the time when "Exalted is ancient past of CWoD" was canon to both lines instead of a shard that may or may not get a book, were heavily implied to be either Solars that had lost a significant amount of power, or cheeply mass produced Knock off solars, and it's also heavily implied that their patron-the voices that Granted them Power, Were The Ebon Dragon and the Scarlet Empress, who will probably direct the Hunters after the Exalted, and if the Exalted are back, some potential hunters might find themselves receiving infernal exaltation instead

6. Taking all of these factors together. it's entirely possible that, at least at first, that the newly exalted mortals will be hiing from the supernarurals instead of the other way around.

Which would actually be a pretty interesting game.

"You have the potential to change the world, and the divinely given right to do so, but you have to live long enough to become powerful enough first."

[Andreaz]

2. In the Old World, the Supernatural Creatures run the show.

Need I really quote the books saying that, despite how over the top it may get, it's still humans who run the show?

[Lord Raziere]

@ Rikandur:
oooh! I get to explain one of my favorite splats. yay! you see, the God-Machine is just that: basically a god but machine-like. while not completely omnipotent, the god machine is a very big machine, very decentralized and spread across our entire planet in the form of infrastructure that it supposed to look like normal factories and such. its implied that its powerful enough to manipulate entire galaxies, but that its so big and complex, that it needs little agents to do things on a human scale, called Angels (NO CATHOLICISM PARALLELS HERE NO SIREE) and Angels are basically completely emotionless and objective robots disguised as humans, looking at the entire world as this dead thing on a slab they manipulate, nothing more. But then sometimes one of these Angels care too much about humanity, and in doing so they become a Demon which is a malfunctioning robot with reality-hacking powers who disguises themselves as human, but you see the God-Machine doesn't like silly things like freedom and change, so the Demons have to basically become techno-magical super-spies to survive, which is good because they're the best liars ever bar none know all languages and can manipulate chance and such. its also bad because Demons want to be human to, they literally can't have a spontaneous unintentional reaction to anything and they kind of need to make humans sell at least a part of their soul to keep making disguises for them to fall back on when the one they're currently using is destroyed, and your goal is get to Hell, which is defined "world without a God-Machine." how you achieve that is up to you. also you can't trust anybody, especially your fellow Demons because you don't know if they're lying or not. paranoid yet? good luck!

as for Exalts, I'm assuming that they do in fact overthrow all governments and install new ones here. I'm just saying that the WoD will still try to HIDE. when they see things like that happen, they know they can't stand up to that. the go-to answer for anyone in the WoD in response to anything they can't fight directly is to keep your head low and hope it doesn't notice them. let the Exalts overthrow the big evil whatevers, the WoD splats going to find whatever little hiding place they can and NOT doing anything to attract attention to themselves thank you very much. they will then wait and see about whatever new society the Exalt makes then slowly figure out how to adjust to it to make sure they keep on rolling- they've done that sort of thing before. even Exalts can't be everywhere at once.

@ Rater:
oh.

how disappointing. at least, from my perspective.

[Morty]

Can I ask for a source for the statement that if they do a crossover, it'll be with the Classic World of Darkness?

[Lix Lorn]

i like the idea of caine not existing as such even better. Down with noddism!

for the technology of peace

[Exthalion]

Can I ask for a source for the statement that if they do a crossover, it'll be with the Classic World of Darkness?

It was in the developer video released to kickstarter backers.

[Rater202]

Can I ask for a source for the statement that if they do a crossover, it'll be with the Classic World of Darkness?

It was in the developer video released to kickstarter backers.

What he said.

It came at the end.

The gist is that it's a dream project for the Exalted Team, that if they got permission it would include rules to convert Solars, Lunars, and Sids to the V20 rules, and would provide buffs to the Vampires, Werewolves, and Mages so they could compete with the Exalted.

They also said something about porting over some of the Modern Charms, specifically mentioning Holistic Bullets Methodology.

They mentioned wanting a 300-400 page hardback, and that if it sold well enough it'd become the corebook for a new gameline spoereate from the parent lines.

They also hinted that something interesting would happen if a vampire tried to embrace a solar(Abyssals?)

I'd also like to mention now that It wouldn't make much sense for the crossover to work with the New World, as Exalted has very little in comon with the New World.

Exalted and classic have Malfeas, Autocthonia, the Malfeans(1E name for the Neverborn), and potentially luna and Gaia in common, as well as the previously mentioned bits about how the Ebon Dragon is potentially the patron of the Hunters.

[Rikandur_Azebol]

Lord Raziere, so demons from god-machine are sort of rogue robots ? That can lie to reality so good it conforms somewhat ? And "angels" there are some sort of Terminator drones ? Interesting.

Can't demons use human tech against Angels and/or Infrastructure ? Like asymetric warfare.

for the technology of peace

Peace trough Power, Lixie.

[Exthalion]

Lord Raziere, so demons from god-machine are sort of rogue robots ? That can lie to reality so good it conforms somewhat ? And "angels" there are some sort of Terminator drones ? Interesting.

Can't demons use human tech against Angels and/or Infrastructure ? Like asymetric warfare.



Peace trough Power, Lixie.

A big thing demons do is destroy infrastructure or subvert it for their own ends. However they must be careful, as Angels can and will kill them and using their strongest powers (the ones that make them on par with angels in a fight for example) attract angels.

[Sith_Happens]

That can lie to reality so good it conforms somewhat?

More like they're perfect doublethinkers. At the moment a demon says something they believe it to be true, even if they know immediately before and after saying it that it's a bald-faced lie.

[Rikandur_Azebol]

A big thing demons do is destroy infrastructure or subvert it for their own ends. However they must be careful, as Angels can and will kill them and using their strongest powers (the ones that make them on par with angels in a fight for example) attract angels.

That is part of what I expected, but ... can't they just buy modern explosives/weaponry and do-away with Angels using them ? If Angels are sort of robots, this should be doable. And what use do Demons have from Infrastructure ? Isn't it ... piece of God-Machine ? Would re-absorb them or spawn Angels, right ?

[Lord Raziere]

That is part of what I expected, but ... can't they just buy modern explosives/weaponry and do-away with Angels using them ? If Angels are sort of robots, this should be doable. And what use do Demons have from Infrastructure ? Isn't it ... piece of God-Machine ? Would re-absorb them or spawn Angels, right ?

Yeah, but this is all secret remember? and the Demon has a life to live. It may be a life that is not theirs, taken from a human being because they made a deal to sell their soul for something else, but its still a life, and Demons still want to live them, even if it means living them in the place of the human. You'd have to be real smooth to smuggle in the weapons to destroy infrastructure and not get arrested. and even then there are often people working at that Infrastructure, because the God-Machine must keep up the pretense that it does not exist, and therefore its Infrastructure must look like the things around it.

and while its possible for the Infrastructure to summon up Angels or get retaken, your thinking too organically. The God-Machine isn't nano-mechanical. (thank the heavens) Its more like evil Autochthon, a thing of gears and big machinery that needs the help of human beings to do certain things for it for the big industrial machine to accomplish some other goal. The may involve the humans doing some strange thing that doesn't make any sense like making sure a certain newspaper is held up on top of a certain building while chanting "Azerath Metrione Synthos" in binary, or building two starbucks across from each other so that some guy will look confusedly between them in the middle of the street and get run over, but it still has to be done because its all apart of some vaster occult ritual the God-Machine is doing for who knows what. Its a machine that works on occult principles, and nano-machines aren't apart of that. that and the God-Machine doesn't have enough awareness of something small as a Demon to take notice of them, like how Malfeas is too big and universe-like to take notice of an Exalt running around in him, thats why the God-Machine has Angels: to do that human scale stuff for him.

the Demons, are like hackers, gremlins and such. some try to destroy all Infrastructure indeed. Others however can subvert the Infrastructure to their own ends. and each Infrastructure does a specific thing: they don't all make Angels, or all observe something else, they need to be purposefully built.

that and this is all a spy thematic here. the kind of spying where everyone and everything might be potential servant of the God-Machine, and it engenders a lot of paranoia. What if the modern weapons were built by the god-machine and are thus faulty? what if the weapons dealer you brokered it with is an Angel? what if you just gave yourself away? The God-Machine is everywhere, all across the globe doing its thing, and destroying just one piece of Infrastructure won't destroy the whole thing- but it might get a lot of Angels buzzing around. and some of the passages imply that the God-Machine is not only on Earth, but has places out in the cosmos and that the whole deal with it being on Earth is just to enact a small part of wider plans. With something as powerful as the God Machine, destroying all the Infrastructure on Earth, might not be enough. for all we know, there are probably Infrastructure in space, that even if you find it, will take a LOT of long term planning to take out- try a few decades or so to arrange a space astronaut expedition near it with all the crew somehow replaced by Demons during the training and then having to man the entire space exploration mission, then finally figure out how to destroy it without letting NASA know that something is up.

[Leliel]

Also, the God-Machine is explicitly flawed and fallible. It's cosmic, but it isn't omniscient (and knows this) and it's capable of making really cosmic mistakes. Indeed, over a quarter of the plot hooks in the God-Machine Chronicle are kicked off by it screwing up in some fashion. Part of the reason, it's implied, is that it doesn't really have a central consciousness, what mind it has is distributed across its Infrastructure and angels. It also can't pull resources out of nowhere on demand, that's what occult matrixes are often meant for.

There's also the fact that angels are explicitly worse at pretending to be human than Unchained are. Part of that's the fact that demons have better Cover (an angel's Cover Infrastructure has to be shared with whatever its responsibilities are and usually just have enough for a human form and biometrics, while a demon steals and converts all that - it's explicit that people have been brought into existence because the Falling angel had a backstory that involved a blood relation, for instance), but the majority is due to the fact that a demon's human form isn't as nearly as much of a lie as their angelic version.

To put it bluntly; because they literally partially absorbed their Covers, a demon exchanged their halo and clarity of purpose for a human heart and...well, not soul, but the difference between Primum and the average soul is sort of like the difference between a wolf and a domestic dog. Angels don't feel emotions like humans, they just have the bare minimum of emotions to make judgement calls and ambition towards completion of their tasks - even the average Vulcan would think the true mindset and personality of a loyal angel is a bit cold and passionless for their liking. Not so with demons - they may be able to control their expressions and anatomic process consciously and completely, but the reason an Unchained may be completely expressionless while trying to kill you is that they're too pissed to realize they look like robots right now. Yes, a demon has more resilient sanity than a normal human (no Integrity, meaning they're effectively immune to post-traumatic stress) and possess far better memories (theirs aren't our inefficient constant reconstruction of data but a long stream of video logs) but otherwise, they think and feel like humans (and usually don't mind one bit - Tempters are generally what happens when they decide "holy crap I love being able to love" and they make up over half the population).

Thus, a demon with Cover is less like the inhuman pretending to be human and more like a human well-versed in a foreign culture (perfect memories, remember) pretending to be a different human of that culture. It's more than a tad easier and effective

[Rikandur_Azebol]

Using human cat-paws like misguided "terrorists" seem like plausible idea for a Demon who absorbed life and soul of a not very nice dude.

Why God-Machine is set up as "evil" ? Autochton is as inhumane and frightening as it goes. It notices mortal existence as ... existence ... because humans use tools and It uses tools. It isn't being pro-human or nice. Autobot is pragmatic to the extreme within It's own world-view.
So ... God-Machine is something largely unknown even to it's former servant-drones. Ok. Yet another question, why the heck it have to remain hidden ? Is something as insignificant as human ignorance relevant in it's plans ?

[Leliel]

Why God-Machine is set up as "evil" ? Autochton is as inhumane and frightening as it goes. It notices mortal existence as ... existence ... because humans use tools and It uses tools. It isn't being pro-human or nice. Autobot is pragmatic to the extreme within It's own world-view.

A: Autocthon is a he, B: He likes humans personally because we appreciate his greatest inventions (dogma, government, and tools), and I don't think "pets" are something one isn't pro or nice to, and C: You underestimate how alien the God-Machine's psyche (if it has one) is. At least with a Primordial, you can at least do some mental limbo to figure out what they want, and they have Third Circles who understand enough to describe their progenitors to you. The reason many demons Fall is that, even as angels, they didn't understand what the God-Machine wanted. You're right, it isn't evil - but it is completely amoral and oblivious to all other life in pursuit of inscrutable goals. It's not evil in the same way Cthulhu is not evil, because it's impossible to truly comprehend any degree of morality implicit in such a cosmic and alien being. As for Primordials...not so much.

So ... God-Machine is something largely unknown even to it's former servant-drones. Ok. Yet another question, why the heck it have to remain hidden ? Is something as insignificant as human ignorance relevant in it's plans ?

Yes. Very.

Humans aren't insects to it; we're bacteria. And bacteria, while they're too small to see personally or interact directly, certainly they don't have that restriction. A human is quite capable of even accidentally destroying a Linchpin (a system of Infrastructure's key component, which are invariably obviously supernatural if you scratch), and exposure directly to the Machine does not drive people insane; rather, it turns them into psychic mutants as their brains adapt to understand it. Demons even do that intentionally sometimes to give their allies and servants superpowers, to say nothing of nonsapient animals (who often mutate into new species entirely if they survive the biological reconfiguration - see Reptilians, shapeshifting, intelligent lizard people born from a chameleon). And of course, resource woes, plus the fact that the Machine's occult calculations depend on the fourth dimension as well as the spatial ones; significant delays in a Project can render it impossible, and the Machine has to take up shop and try something entirely different.

Hence angels and cultists of the Machine, because they're the only parts of it that can interact with humans the other way around. Hence subtlety, because any other way is far, far too inefficient and dangerous - both things the God-Machine despises.

[Sydonai]

The God-Machine isn't omnipotent, and it knows this. That why.
Basically just think of a rich kid stomping on some ants because daddy refused to give him a private jet.
(I think, I might be wrong.)

[Mewtarthio]

Why God-Machine is set up as "evil" ?

Because this is the World of Darkness.

Also, it's worth noting that the God Machine isn't actively malicious, it just only cares about humans insofar as they help it achieve its goals.

[Morty]

The God-Machine isn't "set up" as anything. What it actually is, and what it wants - if it wants anything at all - is purposefully left undefined.

[Exthalion]

The God-Machine isn't "set up" as anything. What it actually is, and what it wants - if it wants anything at all - is purposefully left undefined.

Perhaps even it doesn't know. The very first piece of control infrastructure might have been taken out and everything left is the fragments spun out of control into cancerous growths trying to optimize imperfect functions to no end.

[TimeWizard]

They work like mortals with Immmortal Body mutation, I think, and these can be perma-killed only by soul-destruction. Otherwise they come back. Thus if CMAs work in WoD setting the Glorious Wood Dragon Style capstone charm might work on mummy that doesn't have proper protective amulet on herself.

Wood Dragon Style is a Terrestrial Martial Art. So any Glorious Solar Tom, RICHARD, or Harry could become and effortless soul-slicer with Seven Shadows Evasion and Integrity Protecting Prana almost from character creation.

[Rater202]

You know how even the New World of Darkness is a really s***y place to live, and how it's really really really hard to make even a small paart of it better?

How it's a world where the crime rates never go down, where unemployment is higher than the real world, where every lawyer, politician, and businessman is more crooked than a hillbilly's teeth?

The God-Machine is responsible for all of that.

It's also trying to keep it that way, because it needs the status quo for it's plans.

It's not evil because it's deliberately malicious, it's evil becuase it's very existance promotes suffering and the evil of men.

[SaurOps]

You know how even the New World of Darkness is a really s***y place to live, and how it's really really really hard to make even a small paart of it better?

How it's a world where the crime rates never go down, where unemployment is higher than the real world, where every lawyer, politician, and businessman is more crooked than a hillbilly's teeth?

The God-Machine is responsible for all of that.

It's also trying to keep it that way, because it needs the status quo for it's plans.

It's not evil because it's deliberately malicious, it's evil becuase it's very existance promotes suffering and the evil of men.

I feel like we've been here before.