General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

[Phelix-Mu]

Hi All,

A few questions:

1.) Anyone got a quick list of all the books and sources in which Solar charms appear? I was rather miffed when I realized there are several in the Abyssal book, and that searching them down in there is a pain in the neck.

2.) I've decided to allow a Lunar character access to Raksha charms related to a Grace that he's acquired for reduced cost (as per the normal 10xp Lunar charm, instead of the 16xp as per Eclipse caste learning non-Solar charms). What I'd like to know is will this even be useful or unbalancing? It's a Sword grace currently at 3-dots, and allows him access to Heart and Sword charms as far as I can tell.

3.) Connected to #2, how do I determine the Heart grace rating for Creation-born, who doesn't have a Heart grace but is treated as having such?

4.) Any thoughts on the Raksha pre-errata and post? The player was interested in some of it, then we looked at the errata and they seriously changed stuff he liked (most of which was hilariously unbalanced, but we're E5 and balance is largely a thing of the past).

5.) Sources for sorceries other than White/Black Treatises?

6.) Sources for Raksha charms other than GWM?

Thanks all. You continue to be a great resource to me, much to my relief. My players don't know it, but I'm sure they (and their characters) thank you as well!

[Sith_Happens]

One of the books (the Yu-shan book? Glories of the Most High? one of the Inkmonkeys' articles?) described the Incarnae as discussing the Contagion and the Balorian Crusade in between moves, but they were "one last move, and we go fix everything...", but then there was another move, and another, and another, until it was too late.

Wait, that sounds familiar...





THE GAMES OF DIVINITY AREN'T GAMES AT ALL. THEY'RE NETFLIX.

[ChaosArchon]

Wait, that sounds familiar...





THE GAMES OF DIVINITY AREN'T GAMES AT ALL. THEY'RE NETFLIX.

really? I was thinking they were playing a divine version of Civ but I guess Netflix works too

[Recaiden]

Hi All,

A few questions:

1.) Anyone got a quick list of all the books and sources in which Solar charms appear? I was rather miffed when I realized there are several in the Abyssal book, and that searching them down in there is a pain in the neck.

2.) I've decided to allow a Lunar character access to Raksha charms related to a Grace that he's acquired for reduced cost (as per the normal 10xp Lunar charm, instead of the 16xp as per Eclipse caste learning non-Solar charms). What I'd like to know is will this even be useful or unbalancing? It's a Sword grace currently at 3-dots, and allows him access to Heart and Sword charms as far as I can tell.

3.) Connected to #2, how do I determine the Heart grace rating for Creation-born, who doesn't have a Heart grace but is treated as having such?

4.) Any thoughts on the Raksha pre-errata and post? The player was interested in some of it, then we looked at the errata and they seriously changed stuff he liked (most of which was hilariously unbalanced, but we're E5 and balance is largely a thing of the past).

5.) Sources for sorceries other than White/Black Treatises?

6.) Sources for Raksha charms other than GWM?

Thanks all. You continue to be a great resource to me, much to my relief. My players don't know it, but I'm sure they (and their characters) thank you as well!

1. Solar Charms are Everywhere. Abyssals, Infernals, Glories, Dreams of the First Age, Books of Sorcery. I think there's even a few in 1000 Correct Actions. There's no helping you.
2. This is fine. The things cost Raksha 6 xp, so 16 is kinda out of whack.
3. Creation Born have Heart 2 until Essence 5+, when they get Heart 3.
4. Post Errata is rather more balanced and makes Grace Magic better. It also removes the annoying Glamour Resistance mechanic and means Raksha don't auto-lose against Shaping Defenses.
5. No idea.
6. Scroll of Errata is the only other source, as far as I know.

[Lord Raziere]

1. Solar Charms are Everywhere. Abyssals, Infernals, Glories, Dreams of the First Age, Books of Sorcery. I think there's even a few in 1000 Correct Actions. There's no helping you.

Checked 1000 correct actions charms section, and I'd have to say nope, only Dragon-Blooded stuff there. The infestation of Solar Charms may be ridiculous, but at least it didn't get to the books that are entirely about the Dragon-Blooded....

[meschlum]

Hi All,

A few questions:

1.) Anyone got a quick list of all the books and sources in which Solar charms appear? I was rather miffed when I realized there are several in the Abyssal book, and that searching them down in there is a pain in the neck.

2.) I've decided to allow a Lunar character access to Raksha charms related to a Grace that he's acquired for reduced cost (as per the normal 10xp Lunar charm, instead of the 16xp as per Eclipse caste learning non-Solar charms). What I'd like to know is will this even be useful or unbalancing? It's a Sword grace currently at 3-dots, and allows him access to Heart and Sword charms as far as I can tell.

3.) Connected to #2, how do I determine the Heart grace rating for Creation-born, who doesn't have a Heart grace but is treated as having such?

4.) Any thoughts on the Raksha pre-errata and post? The player was interested in some of it, then we looked at the errata and they seriously changed stuff he liked (most of which was hilariously unbalanced, but we're E5 and balance is largely a thing of the past).

5.) Sources for sorceries other than White/Black Treatises?

6.) Sources for Raksha charms other than GWM?

Thanks all. You continue to be a great resource to me, much to my relief. My players don't know it, but I'm sure they (and their characters) thank you as well!

Yes, yes. Real life exists.

Anyway!

2) I put up a review of all the errata'd Charms on the old White Wolf forums some time ago, which might help if it still exists.

Quick summary:

The Mutation charms are very nice.
Gossamer Wing Flight is awesome. Always on access to 3-d movement is incredibly useful, and it's a Tier 1 Charm.
Armament of Flesh is good for unarmed combat, since it gives bonuses that stack with whatever else you've got. The total bonus amount is limited, though.
Pre-errata Grace of the Infinite Revolving Spheres was really nice, being a way to stack extra actions on top of each other, among other things. The errata's version is largely useless to your Lunar, due to the inability to accumulate Gossamer.
Surpassing Excellence is 2 bonus dice to anything that stack with everything but themselves, and Glorious Hero Form is one (or two) free Attribute Excellencies with minimal investment (and no cost).
The Sword Shaping Stance is extremely touch and go. It has some bits of greatness (starting with an automatic success to all actions at no cost to a Lunar), but mostly focuses on boosting the mass combat system, which is a wreck. Some nice bits if you want to be the Big Bad everyone hates.
The ordinary Sword charms are a mixed bag. Some nice things exist (teleport counter-attack to interrupt flurries and just be awesome, +2 DV against Exalts (cancelled by cold iron, but an Exalt with a cold iron weapon is an Exalt without an artifact weapon, so it's win-win), instant armies and perfect theft, plus a quasi-perfect defense). Getting there is a bit of a slog in the Charm tree, and there are Charms with limited use.

So there are options to accumulate a few extra dice or successes cheaply, and gain flight in the short term. Medium term, temporary distractions via summoned armies are possible, and other special tricks. Long term, it opens up a few new options, but nothing especially unbalancing - mostly number and minor option boosts.

Some of the more powerful Sword tricks are accessible via Grace Magic, which has the great benefit of being free (besides commitment costs), so the price of activating these Charms is, essentially, a way of mocking non-Raksha and Raksha with limited access to Staff charms.

3) Creation-born have Heart 2. Exalts have Heart 3. Done!

4) Pre-errata Raksha had a lot more versatile Oneiromancies, due to everything being allowed. Glamour Resistance helped limit that, but there were still some glorious loopholes and ways to utterly destroy anything. Even the UCS - Exaltations were a bit more challenging, but conceivable. Revolving Spheres was glorious, Imposition of Law sort of worked, the Bastions were functional, and most Raksha Charms were wasted in Creation, so you used a select few and abused them as far as they'd go. Mutations were a major limitation, severely restricting your options and builds. Feeding was inefficient, accumulating gossamer was harder, and Heart Stopping Numinous Power was terrifying.

Post-errata cut down on a few of the loopholes (largely by accident in many cases) and added others, removed Glamour Resistance to sometimes unexpected consequences, and added Chancels to the system, making time travel and instant crafting times a fact. Plus, portable armies. Mutation costs are gone, Imposition of Law is pointless, and lots of Charms now do something in Creation - possibly even something useful. Feeding lets you accumulate gossamer, so both are boosted, and the Great Loophole Hunt goes on.

6) Technically, Core has the Charm that allows Raksha to protect Creation-born from the ravages of the Wyld, which has never appeared in any edition of the Fair Folk. The consensus is that they use Ring shaping instead, and munch on the motes and willpower they extract from their passengers as a 'guidance fee'.

[golentan]

Checked 1000 correct actions charms section, and I'd have to say nope, only Dragon-Blooded stuff there. The infestation of Solar Charms may be ridiculous, but at least it didn't get to the books that are entirely about the Dragon-Blooded....

Oh, my naive friend, how I wish that were true...

Pg. 78-79, Hidden in the text of Wound Denying Dragon faith is the charm Invincible Ego Shield/Dark Will Triumphant for solars/abyssals respectively. Henceforth noted as Pg #:Terrestrial Name/Solar Name/Abyssal Name.

Pg 81: Tactics Mean Everything/Shining General Puissance/Dread Warlord Stratagem

Pg 87: Tail Follows Head/Flying Faith Legion/Nowhere is Safe

Pg 104-105: Storm Outrunning Technique*/Fleet-Outrunning Flagship/Wave Slicing Keel Method
*Denotes errata rather than new charm

[Lord Raziere]

Oh, my naive friend, how I wish that were true...

Pg. 78-79, Hidden in the text of Wound Denying Dragon faith is the charm Invincible Ego Shield/Dark Will Triumphant for solars/abyssals respectively. Henceforth noted as Pg #:Terrestrial Name/Solar Name/Abyssal Name.

Pg 81: Tactics Mean Everything/Shining General Puissance/Dread Warlord Stratagem

Pg 87: Tail Follows Head/Flying Faith Legion/Nowhere is Safe

Pg 104-105: Storm Outrunning Technique*/Fleet-Outrunning Flagship/Wave Slicing Keel Method
*Denotes errata rather than new charm

ARGH! text ninjas, you foil me again.

yes, I blame text ninjas, I don't care if they weren't a thing before, they are now. text ninjas are the people that hide such text in the middle of other text so that you miss them, and then when you talk about it, people reveal what you missed, you look foolish and the text ninjas laugh in glee in their service to the Ebon Dragon.

[The_Snark]

Solar Charms are Everywhere. Abyssals, Infernals, Glories, Dreams of the First Age, Books of Sorcery. I think there's even a few in 1000 Correct Actions. There's no helping you.

Yeah, a complete list of these would be hard to find. That said, here's my attempt:

Spoiler

Show

The following books have actual, official sections for Solar Charms, usually listed in the table of contents. These are the easiest to find, and happily also among the most numerous.

• Exalted core, the Charms chapter (p. 183-240). Obviously.
  
  
• Glories of the Most High: the Unconquered Sun, Gifts to the Chosen (p. 20-34).
  
  
• Shards of the Exalted Dream, appendix, Solar Charms header (p. 155-161).
  
  
• Dreams of the First Age - Lords of Creation, Solar section of Chapter 2 (p. 55-67).
  
  
• Scroll of Errata, Solar section (p. 20-27), Dreams of the First Age section (p. 148-172), Glories to the Most High section (p. 184-185), Ink Monkeys section (p. 187)
  
  
• Ink Monkeys compilation, Solar section (p. 7-26 in my version).

There are also Solar Charms scattered throughout various books; I've done my best to track these down and locate them, but there might well be others that I didn't find/are in books I don't own. (Searchable PDFs make this easier, but it's not perfect because the terminology isn't always consistent between books.)

• Manual of Exalted Power: Abyssals contains quite a few:
  Spoiler

  Show

  Wind Full of Knives (Thrown, p. 132)
  Branding Judgment Attack (Thrown, p. 132)
  Deft Hands Deflection (Thrown, p. 133)
  Fiery Solar Chakram (Thrown, p. 134)
  
  Face the Light (Performance, p. 141)
  Demon-Wracking Glory (Performance, p. 142)
  You Can Be More (Presence, p. 143)
  Mind Yields to Glory (Presence, p. 143)
  Tireless Sentinel Technique (Resistance, p. 147)
  
  Virtue-Donating Grace (Lore, p. 157)
  Asserting the Mandate (Occult, p. 164)
  Demon-Binding Redemption (Occult, p. 164)
  
  Perfect Poise Stance (Athletics, p. 165)
  Hill-Hurling Might (Athletics, p. 166)
  Vile Anathema Shroud (Larceny, p. 171)
  
  Crew-Inspiring Charisma (Sail, p. 179)
  Oceanic Omniscience Intuition (Sail, p. 179)
  Heartfelt Honorific Opportunity (Socialize, p. 181)
  
  
  
• Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals contains one, Epic Zeal of (Virtue) (Integrity, p. 132)
  
  
• Wonders of the Lost Age contains Wonder-Forging Genius (Craft, p. 26).
  
  
• The White Treatise contains the Absorption Charms (Occult, p. 22), which aren't actually Solar-only but I'm listing them anyway.
  
  
• Oadenol's Codex contains Words-as-Workshop Method (Craft, p. 28) and Wonder-Forging Genius (Craft, p. 29) (yes, again).
  
  
• The Thousand Correct Actions of the Upright Soldier has Shining General Puissance (War, p. 81), Invincible Ego Shield (Integrity, p. 79), Flying Faith Legion (Athletics, p. 87), Fleet-Outrunning Flagship (Sail, p. 104).
  
  
• Dreams of the First Age - Lands of Creation has Tiger-Dragon Drill Approach (War, p. 116).
  
  
• Return of the Scarlet Empress offers God-King Mandate (Integrity, p. 170) and King Strides Unseen (Stealth, p. 170).
  
  
• The Ink Monkeys compilation has Staring at the Sun (Integrity, p. 41) and Shining on Dark Realms (Survival, p. 42).
  
  
• The Scroll of Errata has Honored Companion of the Sun (Melee, p. 180), and possibly others.

5.) Sources for sorceries other than White/Black Treatises?

There are some at the end of the Charms chapter in the core book, a few at the end of the Charms chapter of the Infernal book, one at the end of the Traits chapter of Sidereals, one in Lands of Creation... maybe a few others scattered through other books. I don't think there are any collections of spells outside of those first three.

ARGH! text ninjas, you foil me again.

yes, I blame text ninjas, I don't care if they weren't a thing before, they are now. text ninjas are the people that hide such text in the middle of other text so that you miss them, and then when you talk about it, people reveal what you missed, you look foolish and the text ninjas laugh in glee in their service to the Ebon Dragon.

Oh, text ninjas are a thing, though they don't work for the Ebon Dragon. They're Celestial gods of the third rank, typically employed by the Sub-Ministry of Linguistic Confusion, the Sub-Ministry of Unnecessary Conflict, or the Department of Loopholes. They don't actually serve a useful function - Ryzala, Goddess of Bureaucracy, created them to foil theoretical attempts to usurp her position (by preventing anyone else from understanding it). See Compass: Yu-Shan, page 123. No, not really

[emeraldstreak]

Yeah, a complete list of these would be hard to find. That said, here's my attempt:

Spoiler

Show

The following books have actual, official sections for Solar Charms, usually listed in the table of contents. These are the easiest to find, and happily also among the most numerous.

• Exalted core, the Charms chapter (p. 183-240). Obviously.
  
  
• Glories of the Most High: the Unconquered Sun, Gifts to the Chosen (p. 20-34).
  
  
• Shards of the Exalted Dream, appendix, Solar Charms header (p. 155-161).
  
  
• Dreams of the First Age - Lords of Creation, Solar section of Chapter 2 (p. 55-67).
  
  
• Scroll of Errata, Solar section (p. 20-27), Dreams of the First Age section (p. 148-172), Glories to the Most High section (p. 184-185), Ink Monkeys section (p. 187)
  
  
• Ink Monkeys compilation, Solar section (p. 7-26 in my version).

There are also Solar Charms scattered throughout various books; I've done my best to track these down and locate them, but there might well be others that I didn't find/are in books I don't own. (Searchable PDFs make this easier, but it's not perfect because the terminology isn't always consistent between books.)

• Manual of Exalted Power: Abyssals contains quite a few:
  Spoiler

  Show

  Wind Full of Knives (Thrown, p. 132)
  Branding Judgment Attack (Thrown, p. 132)
  Deft Hands Deflection (Thrown, p. 133)
  Fiery Solar Chakram (Thrown, p. 134)
  
  Face the Light (Performance, p. 141)
  Demon-Wracking Glory (Performance, p. 142)
  You Can Be More (Presence, p. 143)
  Mind Yields to Glory (Presence, p. 143)
  Tireless Sentinel Technique (Resistance, p. 147)
  
  Virtue-Donating Grace (Lore, p. 157)
  Asserting the Mandate (Occult, p. 164)
  Demon-Binding Redemption (Occult, p. 164)
  
  Perfect Poise Stance (Athletics, p. 165)
  Hill-Hurling Might (Athletics, p. 166)
  Vile Anathema Shroud (Larceny, p. 171)
  
  Crew-Inspiring Charisma (Sail, p. 179)
  Oceanic Omniscience Intuition (Sail, p. 179)
  Heartfelt Honorific Opportunity (Socialize, p. 181)
  
  
  
• Manual of Exalted Power: Infernals contains one, Epic Zeal of (Virtue) (Integrity, p. 132)
  
  
• Wonders of the Lost Age contains Wonder-Forging Genius (Craft, p. 26).
  
  
• The White Treatise contains the Absorption Charms (Occult, p. 22), which aren't actually Solar-only but I'm listing them anyway.
  
  
• Oadenol's Codex contains Words-as-Workshop Method (Craft, p. 28) and Wonder-Forging Genius (Craft, p. 29) (yes, again).
  
  
• The Thousand Correct Actions of the Upright Soldier has Shining General Puissance (War, p. 81), Invincible Ego Shield (Integrity, p. 79), Flying Faith Legion (Athletics, p. 87), Fleet-Outrunning Flagship (Sail, p. 104).
  
  
• Dreams of the First Age - Lands of Creation has Tiger-Dragon Drill Approach (War, p. 116).
  
  
• Return of the Scarlet Empress offers God-King Mandate (Integrity, p. 170) and King Strides Unseen (Stealth, p. 170).
  
  
• The Ink Monkeys compilation has Staring at the Sun (Integrity, p. 41) and Shining on Dark Realms (Survival, p. 42).
  
  
• The Scroll of Errata has Honored Companion of the Sun (Melee, p. 180), and possibly others.

There's even more! For instance, Glories:Luna has a charm for wielding two-handed weapons in one hand (Dual Slaying Posture p.22) and Debris of the Fallen Races has a charm for creating your personal army of a million CMA wielders, Dragon-Soul Enlightening Method (p.14).

Many of the most powerful Solar charms are well-hidden and unknown to the public at large even today (i.e. Fiery Solar Chakram, Honored Companion of the Sun, Invincible Ego Shield and D-SEM).

The best source for tracking all things Exalted are the Exalted Indices compiled by Plague of Hats. The Anathema charbuilding software is also useful in seeing the big picture. Mind you, I'm not saying they have everything listed.

[Lord Raziere]

Oh, text ninjas are a thing, though they don't work for the Ebon Dragon. They're Celestial gods of the third rank, typically employed by the Sub-Ministry of Linguistic Confusion, the Sub-Ministry of Unnecessary Conflict, or the Department of Loopholes. They don't actually serve a useful function - Ryzala, Goddess of Bureaucracy, created them to foil theoretical attempts to usurp her position (by preventing anyone else from understanding it). See Compass: Yu-Shan, page 123. No, not really

Bah, I still blame the Ebon Dragon for making Ryzala and the concept of bureaucracy in the first place, for only he could've come up with such horrid concepts and then convince everyone that its a vital system for any civilization....he probably did it by persuading She Who Lives In Her Name to help him by lying that he would help her win The Empyreal Chaos's favor in return....

[Gareth3]

I've thought of a First Age artifact that could be interesting in a game, the Deliberative Stone. It needs a Solar, Dragon-Blooded, Sidereal, and Lunar attuned to it to work, and was deliberately constructed to encourage the splats to work together. Abyssals, Infernals, and Akuma can't use it, but otherwise anyone from each splat can be part of the group. The effects of the Stone would be different for each splat. But what benefits are general enough to fit anyone within a Exaltation type? You could cheat and just have it improve anima effects on everyone, but that seems a little weak. Maybe it could fill in weaknesses - DBs get raw combat power, Solars get freaky Lunar stuff, and so on. Or maybe the simplest solution is just to give everyone Solar Bond 5 with the 3 others. Any thoughts?

[Rater202]

There are some at the end of the Charms chapter in the core book, a few at the end of the Charms chapter of the Infernal book, one at the end of the Traits chapter of Sidereals, one in Lands of Creation... maybe a few others scattered through other books. I don't think there are any collections of spells outside of those first three.

Those require Sorcerous Enlightenment of (Yozi) to learn, and thus are only available to Infernal, Akuma, or Eclipsoid sorcerers, or a Sorcerer that's learned that one Specific Charm that let's solar s learn Primordial Charms(Is there an Abyssal Mirror for that charm?)

[Phelix-Mu]

Thanks all.

I've just been reminded of a question I had.

How does the Solar Mate thing work minus the Solar Bond background? Is there a mechanic, or is it simply an Intimacy which the Lunar can't get rid of? And could someone elaborate on the Solar Bond background? As usual, their explanations of stuff often reference other, really insufficient explanations. Solar Bond refers to a page earlier in the book which has lots of fluff, but almost no crunch.

[GenericMook]

Thanks all.

I've just been reminded of a question I had.

How does the Solar Mate thing work minus the Solar Bond background? Is there a mechanic, or is it simply an Intimacy which the Lunar can't get rid of? And could someone elaborate on the Solar Bond background? As usual, their explanations of stuff often reference other, really insufficient explanations. Solar Bond refers to a page earlier in the book which has lots of fluff, but almost no crunch.

With no dots in the background, it's an Intimacy that can't be removed, presumably until the Solar dies. With the Background, well, I'll quote from the book:

Each dot of Solar Bond gives the Lunar two dice in her Solar Bond pool. Her player may assign one or more of these dice to any action undertaken with the deliberate purpose of aiding the Solar to whom the Lunar is bonded. Each die may be used once per story, and this dice pool refreshes at the end of every story.

In addition, each dot of Solar Bond adds one to the Lunar’s Mental Defense Value whenever a social attack might cause her to act against her bonded Solar. Conversely, each dot of the Solar Bond Background reduces the Lunar’s Mental Defense Value by one whenever her actions go against her bonded Solar. This bonus or penalty stacks with the default Intimacy created by the Lunar’s bond with the Solar.

Basically, it means more dice to help your Solar mate, but with the drawback that you're pretty much loyal to them without some means of mitigating that MDV boost/penalty.

Good thing Third Appearance Excellency + Perfect Symmetry is a thing, though.

[Phelix-Mu]

With no dots in the background, it's an Intimacy that can't be removed, presumably until the Solar dies. With the Background, well, I'll quote from the book:



Basically, it means more dice to help your Solar mate, but with the drawback that you're pretty much loyal to them without some means of mitigating that MDV boost/penalty.

Good thing Third Appearance Excellency + Perfect Symmetry is a thing, though.

Thanks. That is good. And really makes those Lunar Leash charms from GotM: UCS seem even more onerous. Bleh.

Just had some role play yesterday as the Lunar in my group approached Lilith to learn White Reaper Style. Hehehe...not light material. Especially as the Solar circle doctor and resident man-of-virtue had tagged along; though it turned out being a good thing, cause Lilith went postal at the end of the ritual combat with the Lunar who was trying to prove his worth, dealing a staggering amount of damage in a single flurry.

Lol. Lunars. Makes for some interesting battle narratives. Owlgirl vs Four-Armed Wolfman. Hehe.

Stupid perfect defenses really mess up otherwise cool move setups. Should force the player to describe how he's doing it better. I always remind them to stunt, but a couple of them rarely bother (especially in combat).

[Lix Lorn]

Checked 1000 correct actions charms section, and I'd have to say nope, only Dragon-Blooded stuff there. The infestation of Solar Charms may be ridiculous, but at least it didn't get to the books that are entirely about the Dragon-Blooded....

Well...

Oh, my naive friend, how I wish that were true...

Pg. 78-79, Hidden in the text of Wound Denying Dragon faith is the charm Invincible Ego Shield/Dark Will Triumphant for solars/abyssals respectively. Henceforth noted as Pg #:Terrestrial Name/Solar Name/Abyssal Name.

Pg 81: Tactics Mean Everything/Shining General Puissance/Dread Warlord Stratagem

Pg 87: Tail Follows Head/Flying Faith Legion/Nowhere is Safe

Pg 104-105: Storm Outrunning Technique*/Fleet-Outrunning Flagship/Wave Slicing Keel Method
*Denotes errata rather than new charm

Sigh. Too slow. xD

Those require Sorcerous Enlightenment of (Yozi) to learn, and thus are only available to Infernal, Akuma, or Eclipsoid sorcerers, or a Sorcerer that's learned that one Specific Charm that let's solar s learn Primordial Charms(Is there an Abyssal Mirror for that charm?)

The primordials really hope not.

[Draken]

The books did imply an abyssal variant giving access to the charms of the Neverborn.

Then the old WW forums completed that by mentioning that the charms of the Neverborn are stuff like:

Being in Eternal Agony Prana

Ow, Ow, Ow, It Hurts Approach

Asleep and Never Waking Up Shintai

Etc.

[Rater202]

The primordials really hope not.

Why not? What happens if an Abyssal get's Yozi Charms?

[Lord Raziere]

Why not? What happens if an Abyssal get's Yozi Charms?

because I'm pretty sure that the connection Yozi have with Infernals is two-way somehow? like, Infernals gain power, but the Infernals in turn do things that somehow improve the Yozis because the Infernals are still human and can still improve themselves by creating new charms?

while Abyssals would be too connected to the Neverborn and the Underworld and no Primordial wants to be a Neverborn. Ever. even the possibility of the Abyssals somehow getting any underworld taint on them frightens them enough shun whatever dealings they might have with Abyssals. the only reason the Yozis made a deal with the Neverborn at all was to get the Solar Exaltations, and even then only because the Ebon Dragon has no problems with speaking to them unlike all the other Yozis.

we have no idea what would happen, but the Yozis sure as Malfeas never want to find out. for all we know, they could start getting things similar to Autochthon's cancer and then everyone would be in trouble, cause no wants to find out what happens when you break reality even more than you already have.

[Rater202]

because I'm pretty sure that the connection Yozi have with Infernals is two-way somehow? like, Infernals gain power, but the Infernals in turn do things that somehow improve the Yozis because the Infernals are still human and can still improve themselves by creating new charms?

while Abyssals would be too connected to the Neverborn and the Underworld and no Primordial wants to be a Neverborn. Ever. even the possibility of the Abyssals somehow getting any underworld taint on them frightens them enough shun whatever dealings they might have with Abyssals. the only reason the Yozis made a deal with the Neverborn at all was to get the Solar Exaltations, and even then only because the Ebon Dragon has no problems with speaking to them unlike all the other Yozis.

we have no idea what would happen, but the Yozis sure as Malfeas never want to find out. for all we know, they could start getting things similar to Autochthon's cancer and then everyone would be in trouble, cause no wants to find out what happens when you break reality even more than you already have.

The Two Way Infernals thing means that if an Infernal Creats a Charm using the Yozi's theme, the new Primordial Charm is immediately learned by the Yozi in question.

This worlds because unlike Most Exalts who wield Charms based on the themes of Their Patrons focused through the lens of their own talent or skill, The Grean Sun Princes wield the exact same charms as their Primordial Patron(infact, with the exception of Infernal monster Style and Possibly the Triumphant Howl of the Devil-Tiger tree, there are no actual Infernal Charms, just Primordial Charms)

However, the Heretical Charms from broken winged crane state that the Yozi can not learn charms that are based on the themes of two or more Yozi, automatically or otherwise, even if they do that "rewrite the themes to work for me" things they can do.

Presumably, if a Deathknight wee to gain access to a Yozi's Charm tree and create a new charm wit it's themes, The Yozi would anly obsord the charm if it was conceptually purely the Yozi's themes and a primordial Charm and not an abyssal charm with Yozi Influence

Well, TED might be vulnerable to corruption, since he's got that charm that turns the user undead and I wouldn't be surprised if he has an expansion on that and his sorcerous enlightenment to get around the "Can't Use Necromancy" rules without doing so

[Lord Raziere]

Yozis have never been the most logical of beings. either that, or they know a whole lot more about essence works than you do- a distinct possibility, given they're beings that manipulate it to the point of creating worlds and life from it. so either they shunning Abyssals out of irrational fear or rational knowledge of how essence works, either way, I don't think it will ever happen, because any possibility of them becoming Neverborn is not something they want to risk.

[Lix Lorn]

Why not? What happens if an Abyssal get's Yozi Charms?

Yozis have never been the most logical of beings. either that, or they know a whole lot more about essence works than you do- a distinct possibility, given they're beings that manipulate it to the point of creating worlds and life from it. so either they shunning Abyssals out of irrational fear or rational knowledge of how essence works, either way, I don't think it will ever happen, because any possibility of them becoming Neverborn is not something they want to risk.

...yeah, basically what raziere said.
Maybe nothing happens, but the yozis are TERRIFIED of death essence and the underworld.

[Lanaya]

So, question: what exactly does the process of exalting look like? If someone exalted right in front of you, would you notice? Does it differ by what type of exalted you are becoming?

[Clistenes]

Those require Sorcerous Enlightenment of (Yozi) to learn, and thus are only available to Infernal, Akuma, or Eclipsoid sorcerers, or a Sorcerer that's learned that one Specific Charm that let's solar s learn Primordial Charms(Is there an Abyssal Mirror for that charm?)

I think it was said in the Alchemicals book that Alchemicals and Abyssals can't become Akuma because both of them get their power directly from Primordial-level sources, and no Exaltation can handle the power of two very different Primordial-level manipulations.

Abyssal = Unconquered Sun + Neverbon
Infernal = Unconquered Sun + Yozis
Celestial Akuma = Incarnae + Yozis
Terrestial Akuma = Elemental Dragons + Yozis
Solar + Primordial Principle of (Yozi) = Unconquered Sun + Yozis
Abyssal Akuma = Neverborn + Yozis => IMPOSSIBLE
Alchemical Akuma = Autochton + Yozis => IMPOSSIBLE
Abyssal + Primordial Principle of (Yozi) = Neverborn + Yozis => IMPOSSIBLE

I'm not sure how well Moonshadows mix with Infernal charms.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Yozis have never been the most logical of beings. either that, or they know a whole lot more about essence works than you do- a distinct possibility, given they're beings that manipulate it to the point of creating worlds and life from it.

Perhaps that's true, but it seems to me that you're now just trying to back up an argument you made with incomplete knowledge by saying that the subject matter is irrational.

[HalfTangible]

So, question: what exactly does the process of exalting look like? If someone exalted right in front of you, would you notice? Does it differ by what type of exalted you are becoming?

in most accounts of Exaltation (that i've heard) you start out with your caste mark and anima flaring bright. Visiting Flare describes his exaltation as the time he felt the "mark burn on his forehead." In Keychain of Creation, we're shown 3 different moments of Exaltation: one solar, one lunar and one abyssal. The Abyssal was glowing slightly with her death essence even before the made the deal that would turn her into such. The Lunar's was more understated at its exact moment, but there was still a mark and a glow (also, Luna appeared) and apparently there was an extreme 'rush' shortly thereafter. The Solar exalted mid-battle, was glowing brightly, and apparently said solar went from "a moment of decision" to "certainty" (comic's words, not mine). DB exaltation is depicted with their anima filling the classroom they're in.

So yes, you would notice.

[Lix Lorn]

So, question: what exactly does the process of exalting look like? If someone exalted right in front of you, would you notice? Does it differ by what type of exalted you are becoming?

Sweet mother of ligier, you'd notice. I'm fairly sure they flare totemic, and then some.

I'm not sure how well Moonshadows mix with Infernal charms.

There is nothing mechanical stopping it.

[Guancyto]

So, question: what exactly does the process of exalting look like? If someone exalted right in front of you, would you notice? Does it differ by what type of exalted you are becoming?

The person gets a big shining mark on their forehead, and a multicolored bonfire of Essence sets off around them. A large image that is in some way iconic of their soul or nature can be seen for miles, and they get power-up music.

Then they open their eyes and start to do things.

(Some exceptions exist; a lot of stories include the person exalting not noticing it until they're done with whatever they're doing (convincing the armies to stand down, outfoxing the king of thieves, beating the living hell out of that demon) and then are surprised when everyone's alternately staring in awe, running for the hills or grabbing their weapons. But everyone else notices.)

There are some extra guidelines by type!

-Zenith Solars will generally get a message from Sol. (Nobody else gets to know it, though.)
-Lunars actually get a real visit by Luna, although they might not know it at the time.
-Sidereals get a 'big moment' that their life has been preparing them for, but it doesn't have to be obvious. It is such a quiet thing, to Sid. But far greater is to realize it.
-Abyssals get stabbed in the face, and then get a chat with their deathlord and make a deal which they have the option of refusing. Refusal generally means death.
-Infernals get to talk with either a demon or their Demon King of Kings patron talking through that demon. Again, they get to make a deal, where refusal generally means death.
-Alchemicals are made as they are, because they are stupid sexy robots.

[Phelix-Mu]

Hello once again.

What would Raksi do if she learned how to use Adamant Circle sorcery? Would she be satisfied with using an item to help her do this? After mastering the final parts of the Book of Three Circles, what would the Queen of Fangs do with her new skills?