General Exalted Discussion XVI: Chej Kejak, Pokegod Trainer!

[Lord Raziere]

Perhaps that's true, but it seems to me that you're now just trying to back up an argument you made with incomplete knowledge by saying that the subject matter is irrational.

well its kinda true.

beings who eternally hang onto the one time they lost for thousands of years without moving on or changing don't seem to be very reasonable fellows.

I imagine that Exaltation would look and sound a lot like when John Egbert ascend to god tiers on his quest bed...except without as much dying in most cases...

[Rater202]

So, question: what exactly does the process of exalting look like? If someone exalted right in front of you, would you notice? Does it differ by what type of exalted you are becoming?

In all cases, your Anima flashes as bright as possible, with totemic representations appearing if they're possible

Solars glow gold, or sometimes an other color associated with sunlight and morning depending on Caste. Gold and Yellow are the most comon, but other colors are possible by the core rules. Regardless a symbolic representation of the Solar apeares behind them as they unlesh their full power the first time

Lunars glow, usually silver or silver tinged with other colors, but again other colors are possible, just rare. An idealised verion of their spirit animal apeares behind them. Luna is usually present, and the Lunar may or may not instinctual assume it's animal spirit shape for the first time. Lunars usually feal a rush as they experience the divine power flowing in them mixed with the enhanced senses of the god-animal they've become

Sidereals are rather subdued by comparison. The glow brightly in the color of their maiden, and the maidens symbol apears on their forehead, but Sidereals are destined to exalt, as opposed to earning it like other Celestials. Most of them knew that they would exalt eventually, being kidnapped by the BoF and trained for their future role.

Dragonblooded explode with Elemental energy, and sometimes course property damage. There's a reason for the realm to prefer stone architecture

]Abyssals are usually neer death, buut otherwse look like Solars with black Animas and fearsome Iconography.(Other Colors may be present, but black is always primary)

Infernals emerge from the Chrysalis Grotesque wrapped in an aura of green fire(/may be accented by other colors) with a totemic depiction of their Unwoven Coadjutor behind them. Each is also changed to some degree, do to fusing body and soul with the Demon who formed their Chrysalis

Hello once again.

What would Raksi do if she learned how to use Adamant Circle sorcery? Would she be satisfied with using an item to help her do this? After mastering the final parts of the Book of Three Circles, what would the Queen of Fangs do with her new skills?

Well, first she'd celebrate with a nice meal of baby back ribs...I am an awful person.

[Recaiden]

well its kinda true.

beings who eternally hang onto the one time they lost for thousands of years without moving on or changing don't seem to be very reasonable fellows.

I imagine that Exaltation would look and sound a lot like when John Egbert ascend to god tiers on his quest bed...except without as much dying in most cases...

John Egbert, Abyssal Exalted.

[Cirrylius]

stupid sexy robots.

Why, to Exalt, they had to to nothin' at all.

...nothin' at all...

...NOTHIN' AT ALL...

[ChaosArchon]

Well they are in a socialist state...

[TimeWizard]

Are we ever told what the cause of Autocthon's robo-cancer is?

[Qwertystop]

Are we ever told what the cause of Autocthon's robo-cancer is?

"Being Autocthon," I think.

[HalfTangible]

Are we ever told what the cause of Autocthon's robo-cancer is?

Third-circle pollution deva

...

Granted, that was a fan work.

[Friv]

"Being Autocthon," I think.

To expand on that - being sick and dying is an integral part of his nature, and springs from his being the Primordial who developed tools and external objects to compensate for his weakness.

In 2e, I believe a developer quote once said that Autochthon's cancer is threaded through his Charm set, such that anyone who started learning Autochthon Charms would eventually develop robo-cancer themselves, and that fetich death would only make his sickness more horrific. They further said that Voidtech is the expression of Autochthon's cancerous Charms in the Alchemicals.

[TheCountAlucard]

"Once more you blaspheme against our Mechanical Messiah! The Great Maker will never submit to the forces of death... no, our Lord will last for all eternity in magitech perfection. And before you point out the Elemental Pole of Smoke again, I'll have you know that it is in no way a symbol of Autochthon's decline. No! It is merely a sign of our Lord's new habit of smoking! Yes, in an effort to reassure us loyal Autochthonians that he shall never cease to be cool, The Great Maker has invented organic-free cigarettes and taken up the oh-so-cool habit of smoking. So Ha!"

[golentan]

Why, to Exalt, they had to to nothin' at all.

...nothin' at all...

...NOTHIN' AT ALL...

Except, of course, be consistently heroic across centuries full of dozens of incarnations.

[Gensh]

"Once more you blaspheme against our Mechanical Messiah! The Great Maker will never submit to the forces of death... no, our Lord will last for all eternity in magitech perfection. And before you point out the Elemental Pole of Smoke again, I'll have you know that it is in no way a symbol of Autochthon's decline. No! It is merely a sign of our Lord's new habit of smoking! Yes, in an effort to reassure us loyal Autochthonians that he shall never cease to be cool, The Great Maker has invented organic-free cigarettes and taken up the oh-so-cool habit of smoking. So Ha!"

I would totally make a poster for this, except I'm all postered out right now.

Except, of course, be consistently heroic across centuries full of dozens of incarnations.

While I do love using this against newbies who don't shut up about Solar greatness, I kind of feel like it should go in Ex3. Or at least the selection criteria for the other types should be more expansive than "momentary greatness." That way, we can get past the "Dragonblooded Exaltation is arbitrary" and "Sidereals don't earn it" discussions as well.

SO. I. AM. Totally working on a super secret project. Like many of my projects, there's a chance of it being a nonstarter, but I'm pretty sure I've got the logistics for it handled up front this time. Probably. In any case, I am looking for one, maybe two, people to help me with visual and narrative character design. Mainly because I'm already on version 5 of a certain character and am still making drastic changes.

Ask for more details via PM, partially to avoid derailing the thread and partially so that no one will see me cry when nobody volunteers.

[Lord Raziere]

While I do love using this against newbies who don't shut up about Solar greatness, I kind of feel like it should go in Ex3. Or at least the selection criteria for the other types should be more expansive than "momentary greatness." That way, we can get past the "Dragonblooded Exaltation is arbitrary" and "Sidereals don't earn it" discussions as well.

I kind of agree. I mean, momentary greatness just feels too much like a comic book story. "oh I made this perfect statue of somebody and suddenly I became a Twilight even though I never been heroic" it just feels so random.

like maybe one of the ways you could Exalt is by the end of completing some great personal quest. like you spend years searching for the Sword of Excalibur and fight many foe to gain it, overcame many challenges and when you finally pull it from the stone, THATS when you Exalt. because completing a great quest like that is awesome for an ordinary mortal. for an Exalt thats easy, but for a mortal thats a quest that takes years to complete!

like the momentary greatness, like, has to be REALLY great in my eyes. you can't just go up to a foe way beyond your weight class and go "I'm not afraid of you" any idiot who doesn't know what he is doing can do that. they have to like, do something that has effort. like actually killing the thing. but even that just smacks of out-nowhere-ness to me.

I dunno, I guess if I want to award some high honor of having godlike power, I'd want to award it for than just having some abstract virtue or a single moment of greatness, because such requirements just feel so...weak y'know?

[TheCountAlucard]

Excalibur's a bad example. A woman just literally handed it to Arthur from a lake, right out of nowhere. And that's assuming you're in the "Excalibur and the sword in the stone are two different swords" camp like me, because otherwise he just stumbled across the legendary blade in an anvil as he was looking for a sword for Sir Kay.

[Clistenes]

Do we know if there is a way for Creation-born with Graces and Raksha Charms to attune themselves to a Freehold's Bonefire?

[Lord Raziere]

Excalibur's a bad example. A woman just literally handed it to Arthur from a lake, right out of nowhere. And that's assuming you're in the "Excalibur and the sword in the stone are two different swords" camp like me, because otherwise he just stumbled across the legendary blade in an anvil as he was looking for a sword for Sir Kay.

Then the sword of whatever and whatnot, you know I wasn't even caring what the actual legend was, just searching for a legendary sword. ugh, just so annoying when this happens.

[Morty]

I don't see anything wrong with some types of Exaltation being more "arbitrary" than others, such as Dragon-Blooded Exaltation being determined by lineage and Alchemical Exalted being built, myself.

[Mewtarthio]

I kind of agree. I mean, momentary greatness just feels too much like a comic book story. "oh I made this perfect statue of somebody and suddenly I became a Twilight even though I never been heroic" it just feels so random.

like maybe one of the ways you could Exalt is by the end of completing some great personal quest. like you spend years searching for the Sword of Excalibur and fight many foe to gain it, overcame many challenges and when you finally pull it from the stone, THATS when you Exalt. because completing a great quest like that is awesome for an ordinary mortal. for an Exalt thats easy, but for a mortal thats a quest that takes years to complete!

like the momentary greatness, like, has to be REALLY great in my eyes. you can't just go up to a foe way beyond your weight class and go "I'm not afraid of you" any idiot who doesn't know what he is doing can do that. they have to like, do something that has effort. like actually killing the thing. but even that just smacks of out-nowhere-ness to me.

I dunno, I guess if I want to award some high honor of having godlike power, I'd want to award it for than just having some abstract virtue or a single moment of greatness, because such requirements just feel so...weak y'know?

From what I understand, 3e is going to make the criteria of Exaltation less defined. I'm personally leaning towards your camp , though.

That being said, I would expect Alchemicals to keep their stringent requirements. Those things are crazy expensive to build, so you really want to make sure they'll be worth the investment.

[HalfTangible]

I don't see anything wrong with some types of Exaltation being more "arbitrary" than others, such as Dragon-Blooded Exaltation being determined by lineage and Alchemical Exalted being built, myself.

I actually found it rather interesting. There's a lot of symbolic parallel between the Exalts' roles in Creation and their respective manners of Exalting.

Lunars and Solars got their powers by earning it in the eyes of those powers and/or their patron dieties, and are bound together forever. Both Sol and Luna gained their position in Heaven through a difficult, deadly challenge: Sol basically having everything the Primordials could conceive of being thrown at him, and Luna killing and eating all other potential moons. Alchemicals are born and built that way and know their purpose from the start, which makes sense given the fact that they're the only Exalted directly designed and built solely by a primordial (sure, Autobot built ALL the exaltations, but the Alchemicals are the only ones that weren't influenced by another force in some way, such as Sol/Luna) and primordials consider existing to be the best thing ever. The Sidereals and DB are in the position they're in because someone decided to play it safe/predictable with the fate of the world, so the Sidereal exaltations are also safe and predictable. The DB are in their position by sheer chance of birth, so their exaltation comes by sheer chance. The Infernals and Abyssals are both basically slaves to their respective masters, which is understandable given the fact that the whole reason the Neverborn and Yozis were dethroned in the first place was that their creations felt they were enslaved.

You lose a lot of symbolic meaning behind each faction and their struggles if they all suddenly Exalt for the exact same reason.

[Sith_Happens]

Excalibur's a bad example. A woman just literally handed it to Arthur from a lake, right out of nowhere. And that's assuming you're in the "Excalibur and the sword in the stone are two different swords" camp like me, because otherwise he just stumbled across the legendary blade in an anvil as he was looking for a sword for Sir Kay.

Trust me, wielding Excalibur for longer than an hour is definitely worthy of Exaltation.

[ChaosArchon]

Trust me, wielding Excalibur for longer than an hour is definitely worthy of Exaltation.

I was thinking this same thing when Exaclibur was mentioned... Fool!

[TheCountAlucard]

Trust me, wielding Excalibur for longer than an hour is definitely worthy of Exaltation.

You fool! The discussion was about seeking Excalibur! Observe the weapon's exquisite form. Notice the unparalleled sharpness! Act now and you'll receive four free hours at the five-hour storytelling party!

[golentan]

Dragonblooded in my exalted absolutely earned their exaltation, in a way similar to the alchemicals though perhaps less stringent. Their soul was tagged as worthy of incarnation into a terrestrial family, into a body destined to exalt by the bureau of humanity, or specifically endorsed by a celestial (such as the sidereal charm that lets you promote someone into their next life as a terrestrial).

I mean, seriously, the Solars wrote a series of treaties with heaven governing the cycle of reincarnation and didn't think to include stipulations about their right arm, the vast majority of the exalted host whose labors made possible the infrastructure that provided the solars with the leisure to pursue their greatest projects? They were insane, not stupid. The mandala accords absolutely should have some rules about heroes and terrestrial incarnation.

This gives the bonus irony that the criteria probably get a big boost from having died defending a celestial, so the people cut down by the wyld hunt for consorting with anathema are more likely to show up leading a wyld hunt a few decades later than just about anyone. It also fits with the narrative of the Immaculate Faith being just close enough to reality to be wildly misleading. Yes, citizen, as the immaculate order teaches by virtuous behavior you too can progress along the path of enlightenment and earn exaltation in your next life! To do so, oppose the immaculate order!

[Morty]

You lose a lot of symbolic meaning behind each faction and their struggles if they all suddenly Exalt for the exact same reason.

Agreed, although of course this is mostly a gut feeling of mine. And you lose a lot of potential stories if you require Dragon-Blooded to be heroic. Stupid, lazy and all-around unworthy people receiving powers by accident of birth is a staple, you know.

[Recaiden]

Do we know if there is a way for Creation-born with Graces and Raksha Charms to attune themselves to a Freehold's Bonefire?

They are their own Heart. If they jump into the fire for six actions, (which presumably inflicts terrible damage), they should be able to attune.

[golentan]

Agreed, although of course this is mostly a gut feeling of mine. And you lose a lot of potential stories if you require Dragon-Blooded to be heroic. Stupid, lazy and all-around unworthy people receiving powers by accident of birth is a staple, you know.

Not... really. I mean, pretty much every exalt type has examples of people who had their moment of glory and then squandered their powers on pettiness and idiocy. Requiring the Terrestrials to have earned it in a previous life doesn't mean they'll make good use of it in this life.

[Kymme]

As far as the whole 'moment of greatness' thing goes for Solars, that's never how I thought about it. I always figured that it wasn't the act that made a Solar exalt, but the decision to do so. For instance: A young man decides to stand up to Fair Folk raiders that periodically attack his village. He waits for a day and a night with a blacksmith's hammer in each hand, and when they finally come he stands against them with the fury of the morning sun.

He had, like, 24 hours to reconsider his decision. To put down his hammers and go back to hiding with his family. But he didn't. He decided to fight. He thought 'There's no turning back. I'm going to fight these guys, and beat them. I have to.' And when the fight began, he became an Exalted.

That's how I think about it.

[Qwertystop]

I was reading an Exalted/Worm crossover fic (nothing starting with that statement ever goes well, does it) that did some interesting things in integrating the two settings. The thing I'm thinking of here, that I'm wondering about, is the way the author worked out how Taylor would gain abilities, given the fact that he's not quite working it all out as an RPG. The decision was to make XP completely nonexistent, so the only thing that matters is training times. Since Favored and Caste abilities for Solars have no training times, that means that the first time Taylor tried to do any of a lot of things, she was instantly supercompetent, and very confused a short while later when she realized that she'd just made gourmet meals in attempting to idly put together a sandwich (Cooking is Craft!).

It made for an amusing read. Would something like that, making training time a very limited resource and providing an excess of XP, actually work in a game?

[Phelix-Mu]

Hello once again.

What would Raksi do if she learned how to use Adamant Circle sorcery? Would she be satisfied with using an item to help her do this? After mastering the final parts of the Book of Three Circles, what would the Queen of Fangs do with her new skills?

Soliciting additional responses (beyond baby back ribs jokes).

[Lord Raziere]

Soliciting additional responses (beyond baby back ribs jokes).

cackle madly and go "POWER!!! ULTIMATE POWER!" use her new destructive spells to destroy large amounts of Dragon-Blooded in Lookshy or the Imperial City, then use it make big miracles that will make people worship her and thus offer her up babies to eat, hubristically summon up Third Circle Demons when Calibration comes and demand them to do I don't know do her laundry, kill Chejop Kejack, call up the Blazing Solar Chariot and go riding around over Creation flinging fireballs at everything even though its not possible to spam that sort of thing in Exalted, I have no idea, there is no writeup for Raksi in Scroll of Exalts and I am not gonna go through the suck that is Manual of Exalted Power: Lunars just to read up on her, and to my memory we are only given "wanting to master Solar Circle Sorcery" as a motivation without any follow up or follow through plans after that.

so I'm personally thinking that with Raksi as crazy as she already is, she would probably just start going mad with even more power.