Melee Scout idea

[Zaq]

So I was flipping through ToB, and I noticed something I'd never noticed before. The feat Gloom Razor has an option for free movement: specifically, if you attack a foe you flank, then on your next turn, you can make a relatively easy Tumble check to move anywhere adjacent to that foe as a free action. You have to start your movement adjacent to your enemy, but it seems to me that this is a way of enabling a melee Scout to get Skirmish and still have a full attack left, without relying on Pounce (which requires room to move, so you can't use it on the same foe twice in two rounds, unless they're very nice and run away from you) or Travel Devotion (which can be used up). You'd have to be fighting a pretty big foe to get Improved Skirmish, but regular Skirmish can be enabled by just moving across from where you started.

Now, this does require a Swordsage dip, but that's not really a bad thing. And it has Shadow Blade as a prereq, but Shadow Blade is pretty awesome for Scouts anyway. (You'd probably want to stick with Island of Blades just to enable easy-mode flanking, anyway.) And sure, you'd probably want at least one other form of free movement (or getting a full attack after a move), if for no other reason than to enable your initial approach, but it seems to me that low-level Swordsage maneuvers are pretty perfect for that (Sudden Leap is a classic, after all, and Wolf Fang Strike is almost as good as a full attack for the early part of your career).

Anyway, musing aside, has anyone ever explored this option? Any idea what the earliest level you could get it up and running might be? Gloom Razor sadly requires BAB +6 (all of the tactical feats in ToB do, which means that the ones tied to Swordsage disciplines are much harder to get into than the ones tied to Warblade or Crusader disciplines), so it seems that unless we can get it as a bonus feat somehow (and I don't see an easy way to do that), that means we're stuck taking it as our level 9 feat. I don't see a way of making this come online earlier, sadly.

At any rate, I just thought this was interesting. I'd love to see if anyone else has any insights about it.

[Darrin]

Hmm. Combine with the Distracting Attack ACF and would you even need a flanking buddy? Or maybe Clarion Commander for Perpetual Flank?

Something odd, though. The feat doesn't say how far you can move or the path you have to take. Can you use your full movement to trigger Improved Skirmish or Expeditious Dodge, or does it have to be the shortest route?

[Zaq]

Hmm. Distracting Attack: "The enemy is considered flanked by you." Gloom Razor: "You must make a successful melee attack against an opponent you flank." So yeah, that looks like it works. Even if you wouldn't get the +2 for flanking, it's still unambiguous that you're attacking an opponent you flank. So this lends itself nicely to Swift Hunter, which means that we can easily get TWF online.

Still no good way to get Gloom Razor before your level 9 feat, though, unless we went pure Ranger for our first 6 levels and used flaws (or human, I guess) to get Martial Study -> Martial Stance -> Shadow Blade -> Gloom Razor at 6th. But then we need 3 levels of Scout to get Swift Hunter anyway, so that's a wash. Easier to just take a level of Swordsage.

[Gildedragon]

so provided your second and third levels are fighter, and you don't lose any BAB until 6th, yeah you can manage.
Fighter Bonus Feats are Martial Study and Martial Stance (at 2 and 3 respectively), standard lvl 3 feat is shadow blade, and gloom razor at 6.

Alas AFAIK there is no single class level that boosts your BAB by 2, or feat that does so by 1.

[Darrin]

Gloom Razor only works if you hit a flanked opponent, so you need two successful attacks on round 1. The first attack causes your opponent to be flanked, the second attack removes the flanking but activates Gloom Razor. So you'd probably want Snap Kick to get two attacks on a standard action.

Hmm. Seems like it's too easy to shut down with a 5' step, once your opponent is no longer adjacent it stops working. There's some maneuvers that prevent an opponent from moving. Or maybe some Knight levels + reach weapon? You can't 5' step in difficult terrain.

[Vaz]

Gloom Razor and Iaijutsu Focus go well. Human Paragon/Factotum Able Learner leading into Swordsage gets there.

A 10ft '5ft step' can be achieved by Monk dip and Training Dummy of the Master (UMD doesn't work it specofies monk levels, not covered by UMD), or a DC40 Tumble. Monk dip has the benefit of Sun School, obviously with SH teleports doing well here.

Spiked Chain is a shadow hand weapon with 2h and reach, so can help with trip and power attack.

Barbarian 2/Monk 1/Swordsage 6

Imp trip, bonus feats for later qualifications (ie Shadowlord etc)

[Darrin]

Here's an idea to prevent your opponent from stepping away: harpoon (Frostburn). Cinch up on the trailing rope, and your opponent has to beat your strength check to move away.

Unfortunately, harpoon isn't a Shadow Hand weapon. Aptitude harpoon?

Or maybe try Net & Trident Style.

[Vaz]

Isn't there a stance which lets you move with something stepping away? Devoted Spirit, maybe?

[Regissoma]

Isn't there a stance which lets you move with something stepping away? Devoted Spirit, maybe?

You may be talking about Thicket of Blades which provokes an AoO and with that one feat that lets you take a 5ft step, 10ft if you have used the training dummy, you are kinda following them.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Here's an idea to prevent your opponent from stepping away: harpoon (Frostburn). Cinch up on the trailing rope, and your opponent has to beat your strength check to move away.

Unfortunately, harpoon isn't a Shadow Hand weapon. Aptitude harpoon?

Or maybe try Net & Trident Style.

Given how easy pounce is to get, I don't think that's a huge deal. Either they stay within 5ft and you tumble-full attack them, or they move at least 10ft away and you charge-full attack.

[Vaz]

Not a stance, but a Boost - Mirrored Pursuit. Alright, but tbh, on a SS chassis, kinda poo to build around.