3.5 Helping my buddy out

[WeaselGuy]

So, a buddy of mine is about to join my Eberron campaign, and he has this character concept in mind, but doesn't really know how to pull it off with style. It's been a while since he's played 3.5, so he's a little sketchy on some of the material, so I figured I'd get some input from the Playground.

Books: Pretty much all 3.5 except for Forgotten Realms and DragonLance, including ToB, ToM, UA and Dragon Compendium

The Campaign: We started with the level 1 campaign in the back of the Eberron Campaign setting, and are planning on pushing through Shadows of the Last War, Whispers of the Vampire's Blade, Grasp of the Emerald Claw, and Voyage of the Golden Dragon, before going into homemade material.

Stats: 12, 13, 14, 16, 16, 18

Races: Any Humanoid with 2 arms, 2 legs, 2 eyes, 2 ears, a nose and a mouth.

Concept: He wants some combination of necromancy and healing while swinging a scythe around somewhat effectively. I figure a Cleric would be the most direct route to go to pull this off, but 9 times out of 10, it sorta lacks in the flair department. I pointed out the Death Master from DC, but he didn't seem too impressed and I don't think it has any healing spells. Also, I'm aware that combat healing is a no-go, I think he just wants it for post-combat/emergency triage. I also pointed him at Death Master/Druid/Arcane Hierophant/Mystic Theurge for dual 9s, and he seemed to like it a little better, but his reaction was hard to discern. We were also at work moving a bunch of tables around and didn't have much time afterwards to figure it out.

So yeah. This is where I hope you guys can help my buddy and me out a little.

[Gildedragon]

Does your bud want to sling spells?

If not: Shadow Sun Ninja might be something they like

with kalashtar available toss in tashaltora with a psion and do some psionic 'magic' or see if there's something like tashaltora for a divine class and do that...

[WeaselGuy]

Does your bud want to sling spells?

If not: Shadow Sun Ninja might be something they like

with kalashtar available toss in tashaltora with a psion and do some psionic 'magic' or see if there's something like tashaltora for a divine class and do that...

Yeah, he definitely want's to be some sort of caster. He went into great detail about his spellbook and some sort of chain he keeps it on to keep it attached to him at all times.

[Gildedragon]

Spellbook caster then:
Archivist is a good start

That plus a martial initator class can have him quite handy with a scythe

alternatively: +binder into anima mage or tenebrous apostate or disciple of the green lady
Binder has a very necromancy feel and picking the right 1 or 2 vestiges can fill out the healing or undeathing sides of his build...

[CommandTortoise]

Ruby Knight Vindicator? Necromancy through the Cleric side, Devoted Spirit for healing in combat and maneuvers cover the scything people part. Seems tailor-made to me.

[Regissoma]

Play as a Warforged/Undead standard race/Human
-insert Necromancy themed class here- + Crusader for healing while pulling awesome manuevers with his scythe

[Phelix-Mu]

Spellbook caster then:
Archivist is a good start

That plus a martial initator class can have him quite handy with a scythe

alternatively: +binder into anima mage or tenebrous apostate or disciple of the green lady
Binder has a very necromancy feel and picking the right 1 or 2 vestiges can fill out the healing or undeathing sides of his build...

Emphasis mine. Is this a PrC from ToM? I don't think I've ever heard of it before. Can I get a source?

[WhamBamSam]

There's always Arcane Disciple (Healing), though Death Masters worship Orcus, which puts the kybosh on that. You seem to expect him to play nicely with the rest of your party though, so maybe you've waived some of the fluff? If so, Death Master 5/Crusader 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Death Master +4 with Arcane Disciple (Healing) could actually do what you want pretty well. It can even sort of heal in combat by smacking some enemy with one of the Devoted Spirit strikes that heals an ally, then throwing out a Quickened Empowered Heal courtesy of JPM. The Leading the Charge stance is fantastic with a horde of undead behind you.

The only problem with this is that it's pretty MAD, what with Arcane Disciple adding a Wis dependence, though the good rolled stats help there. Cha works okay as a dump stat if you aren't going Naenhoon Illumian for the pseudo-DMM. 4 Rebukes/day is enough to fuel Travel Devotion or Death Devotion through a full day's combat encounters, and with a single nightstick you can get up to 7 which would be enough for Divine Might to reliably be there when you need it.

The Archivist/Crusader/RKV suggestion would also work, though you need Sacred Exorcist in there somewhere to get Turn Undead to qualify for RKV.

[WeaselGuy]

With regards to him playing nicely, I don't have any alignment restrictions, just so long as they don't play as complete a$$hats and actually work together for the benefit of the group. I actually do have a member right now who is NE, Whisper Gnome Cleric of the Dark Six, just went into Crusader. The other player is a TN Human Gunslinger, who's probably going to be going into Deepwood Sniper.

[WeaselGuy]

The Archivist/Crusader/RKV suggestion would also work, though you need Sacred Exorcist in there somewhere to get Turn Undead to qualify for RKV.

So something like Archivist 6/Crusader 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/RKV 10/Archivist +2... It definitely has some flair to it, and 17th level Archivist casting, without having to be evil at that. How well does Archivist do at Necromancy? About as good as a Cleric I presume?

[WhamBamSam]

With regards to him playing nicely, I don't have any alignment restrictions, just so long as they don't play as complete a$$hats and actually work together for the benefit of the group. I actually do have a member right now who is NE, Whisper Gnome Cleric of the Dark Six, just went into Crusader. The other player is a TN Human Gunslinger, who's probably going to be going into Deepwood Sniper.

Ah, alright then. Though I actually just realized that build can heal out of combat without Arcane Disciple. You have an undead companion which will have immunity to non-lethal damage, and which you can get back pretty easily even if the DM breaks all your other undead toys. Just punch away at it unarmed in between combats with Devoted Spirit healing maneuvers and you can heal your allies as much as you want. It's a tad cheesy though, so I'd understand if you didn't want him doing that.

So something like Archivist 6/Crusader 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/RKV 10/Archivist +2... It definitely has some flair to it, and 17th level Archivist casting, without having to be evil at that. How well does Archivist do at Necromancy? About as good as a Cleric I presume?

I'd make the last two levels more Sacred Exorcist to hit 16 BAB, and maybe bump those last two levels up a bit in the progression if there were a higher level maneuver I wanted to grab with RKV.

Necromancer types would rather Rebuke than turn, since that adds a separate HD pool of undead that you can control, even if most days your rebukes will be used up on other things. They have access to Descecrate though, which makes them better than Wizards.

[Gildedragon]

Apostle of the Green Lady (and the Green Lady vestige) are creations of James Jacobs, a creative director at paizo

They are fairly balanced classes and quite flavorful for anyone wanting to go divine-caster + binder that doesn't feel like wearing orcus's handmedowns

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2he3y?St...landi-Scrimm#8

[WeaselGuy]

Ah, alright then. Though I actually just realized that build can heal out of combat without Arcane Disciple. You have an undead companion which will have immunity to non-lethal damage, and which you can get back pretty easily even if the DM breaks all your other undead toys. Just punch away at it unarmed in between combats with Devoted Spirit healing maneuvers and you can heal your allies as much as you want. It's a tad cheesy though, so I'd understand if you didn't want him doing that.

I'd make the last two levels more Sacred Exorcist to hit 16 BAB, and maybe bump those last two levels up a bit in the progression if there were a higher level maneuver I wanted to grab with RKV.

Necromancer types would rather Rebuke than turn, since that adds a separate HD pool of undead that you can control, even if most days your rebukes will be used up on other things. They have access to Descecrate though, which makes them better than Wizards.

Well, if RKV would be better served at the end of the progression, something like Archivist 7/Sacred Exorcist 2/Crusader 1/RKV 10 would get better maneuvers, but lose 16 BAB. Archivist 6/Crusader 1/Sacred Exorcist 3/RKV 10 gets 16 BAB with 9th level spell slots. What should he look at for feat progression? EWP(Scythe) and Knowledge Devotion seem like no-brainers...

[WhamBamSam]

Scythes are martial weapons. Crusader grants proficiency without burning any feats.

Knowledge Devotion should probably be taken at third level. It's pretty important. You could go a lot of routes with the other feats. How do you rule the Divine Impetus dysfunction? Does your friend have an idea for how this character uses his scythe? Does he want to charge at the front of his unliving army? Mostly sling magic? Something else?

What level will he be starting at? These builds grow into good gishes, but they're more conventional casters through their early levels.



The Green Lady vestige is overpowered relative to most of the others, especially those within a few vestige levels. I mean, 2nd level and you get the best bits of Karsus and Tenebrous and then some, really? The influence and special requirement are annoying, but the binding check isn't particularly hard and Ignore Special Requirements exists.

[WeaselGuy]

Well I'm doing a catchup session on Sunday, so he'll be starting at 1. Also, I don't know why I thought scythe was exotic, that helps a lot. I don't really know how he wants to play, and I don't think he does either. Is Binder going to be too complicated for someone who hasn't played in over 5 years? Because I've been playing for over a decade, and it confuses me a little lol.