help me re invision hobgoblins

[ngilop]

Hello everybody I would like some assistance in fleshing out my own version of hobgoblins.
before any go into that, I want to give some background on how thy are in my campaign world.

Hobgoblins are not evil in my campaign world. they are predominately lawful neutral (unlike us humans who are mostly lawful evil). They got their bad rap from the elves, akin to what britain did about Germany prior to WW1, all the rest of the world got was what the elves said, the fact they are cousins to goblins and bugbears, and they are very warlike.

Hobgoblins are indeed very warlike but unlike orcs not super and stupidly aggressive towards other civlizations, well except for maybe elves. to this day they have an eternal hatred against elves, and seek to attack them first in any engagement for the betrayal the elves did eons ago, though this betrayal has been lost to time.

hobgoblins culture resembles classical roman culture, with hobgoblins having first created lamellar armor. So they have great engineering and archecture talent as well as decen poetics and philosophy.

culture just cannot do much greater when you get the shaft and everybody is against you. oh did I mention the good ol hobbie invented the ballista?

here is the hobgoblin racial attributes


•+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution: Hobgoblins are fast and hearty.
•Darkvision: Hobgoblins can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
•Rigid Minds: Hobgoblins gain a +2 racial bonus on saves vs spells and effects of the charm and compulsion descriptors..
•Sneaky: Hobgoblins gain a +4 racial bonus on Stealth checks.
•Languages: All hobgoblins begin play speaking Common and Goblin. Hobgoblins with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following bonus languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Giant, Orc.


any other questions you might have concerning hobgoblins will be answered :)

I appreciate any and all help, advice and suggestions

[LimSindull]

ngilop,

I like this idea. Tweaking a race to make them playable (storywise) is a good step. They are not overpowering, but still give a nice flavor to your setting.

A few questions:
Are the hobgoblins constantly warring with other races, themselves, or are they dispersed throughout and hire themselves as mercenaries that have a bit more than a knack for warfare.

If they war with other races, is it enslavement? Is it for annihilation? Do they have some reason (Divine or Protective) for conquering all before them. An example I'll ask for would go something like this.
A warsized group of Hobgoblins come along a town. What are their goals and how much will they take once they achieve those goals.

Also, With a Roman-like civilization, do they have a god emperor, or a republic that looks out for the main civilization.

Anyways, these are some starter ideas/questions. I see these Hobgoblins as aggressive but fair.

Hope this helped ngilop

[ngilop]

ngilop,

I like this idea. Tweaking a race to make them playable (storywise) is a good step. They are not overpowering, but still give a nice flavor to your setting.

A few questions:
Are the hobgoblins constantly warring with other races, themselves, or are they dispersed throughout and hire themselves as mercenaries that have a bit more than a knack for warfare.

If they war with other races, is it enslavement? Is it for annihilation? Do they have some reason (Divine or Protective) for conquering all before them. An example I'll ask for would go something like this.
A warsized group of Hobgoblins come along a town. What are their goals and how much will they take once they achieve those goals.

Also, With a Roman-like civilization, do they have a god emperor, or a republic that looks out for the main civilization.

Anyways, these are some starter ideas/questions. I see these Hobgoblins as aggressive but fair.

Hope this helped ngilop

first off; in my world slavery is not an evil thing, like in modern society.. think of it like slavery was for 15k+ years pf human history prior to the great enlightenment, just a fact of life.

Yes, they are basically in a stat of constant warfare the PhB races and their allies think 'ebol gobbies!' while their cousins think' screw these guys, think they better than us' and orcs. well orcs just wanna attack everything because.

hobgoblins do not really go out to seek and destroy or actively pursue WAR on others more often than not they are the defenders. they really are the total misunderstood race of the world.

it depends in regards to god emperor republic or what have you. in the bigger hobgoblin civilizations (of which there are very few) all hobbies are not the exact same so depending on which group it is is how they are lead. though there tends to be much more central authority than group authority for them. emporers, king's and warlords are the most common, actually now that I think of it really

if a war-sized hobgoblin force comes across a town, for war purposes they will lay siege and raze it to the ground, killing all or enslaving those that surrender. think romans and masada.

war in general on my campaign world is very very brutal think ancient earth history.

yes you first judgement on my hobgoblins are correct, aggressive, rigid, but fair.

[jqavins]

hobgoblins do not really go out to seek and destroy or actively pursue WAR on others more often than not they are the defenders. they really are the total misunderstood race of the world.

...

yes you first judgement on my hobgoblins are correct, aggressive, rigid, but fair.

These statements don't really jive. Are they defenders or aggressors? The Romans (at least in much of their history) conquered agresively to expand.

On the other hand, I'm also getting the picture that there is not a single hobgoblin society, but rather a number of distinct hobgoblin nations, so perhaps we (the readers) are overly hung up on your Romans comment. You were talking about tech level and intellectual and cultural matters, were you not? But on the other other hand, if there are distinct nations then one would not expcet the same cultural norms among them all.

Is the world divided geographically by species? That is, is there an area of human nations, an area of hobgoblin nations, perhaps areas of other races' nations? Or are they mixed up, forming a patchwork of racial nations interspersed with one another?

[ngilop]

They are not the aggressors, though they are very militaristic, think of my hobbies as rome during the pax romana. they are not generally going out to seek and gain more territory, slaves, ore, or what have you. Those they are aggressive against tend to be other humanoids such as orcs, goblins and others not so much the demi-human races. in fact hobbies are a big reason why those races are not gaining more headway in the world, acting as sort of a buffer.

all races(sub races) except for human are pretty much 1 culture in my world. so all drow are drow, all gnomes are gnomes etc etc.

when I first started creating my world I was doing several different cultures for each race, but dang it I do not have the imagination to come up with millions or perhaps billions of different cultures, plus I realized I needed a reason why human were a dominant race and POW that was it, when you are dealing with a high elf anwhere, you know pretty much HOW he is going to respond, and what he is all about no matter where you find that high elf. humans on the other hand can be a world of difference from each other and just across the lake. that why humans are a dominant race because as a single race they are so diverse from each other but unlike elves or dwarves they are just one race instead of a set of sub races.

and the world is a patchwork of racial nations.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

For my two cents:

Your Hobgoblins appear to be more similar to the later Roman Empire, as opposed to the Pax Romana. Besieged on all sides, composed of a single culture but many different kingdoms (See: Diocletian, Crisis of the Third Century, and Tetrarchy), and being universally hated by everyone. That last one may be hyperbole, but still. To my mind it fits better, and it would give players in the setting a sense of doom when contemplating the Hobgoblins' plight. You made it seem like they would have central focus for at least part of the setting/campaign, so it would make sense to take a romanticized view of the later Empire.

[ngilop]

thanks everybody for the help

do my racial statistics look good for hobgoblins?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

thanks everybody for the help

do my racial statistics look good for hobgoblins?

Is this for 3.5 or Pathfinder? 3.5 stats generally have a net 0 as a rule of thumb. Stat bonuses and penalties should cancel out. Pathfinder, on the other hand, tries for a net+2 for most races. If this is Pathfinder, you'll need to penalize something, or remove one of their bonuses. If it's 3.5, you need to make one a penalty.

[ngilop]

it for D&D. and my races are a bit more powerful than standard PhB with stats very similar to what PF did with them ( dwarves get a +2 to con and wis and a pen alty to cha etc) they also get additional racial bonuses like tremor sense for a dwarf, an elf can cast a few zero level spells a day, half orcs can rage etc

so the 3 racial abilities pale in comparison to the dozen or more than other races get. for me getting the 2 bonus stats with no penalty is what makes it an even gain.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

it for D&D. and my races are a bit more powerful than standard PhB with stats very similar to what PF did with them ( dwarves get a +2 to con and wis and a pen alty to cha etc) they also get additional racial bonuses like tremor sense for a dwarf, an elf can cast a few zero level spells a day, half orcs can rage etc

so the 3 racial abilities pale in comparison to the dozen or more than other races get. for me getting the 2 bonus stats with no penalty is what makes it an even gain.

Well, without context of the other races then there isn't an answer. Post some of the other stats or something.

[ngilop]

Here are my half-orcs and half-ogres the 'weakest' of my races, due to stat penalties.

Half-Orcs
+2 Strength +2 constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.
Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Half-orc base land speed is 30 feet.
Intimidating: Half-orcs receive a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate skill checks due to their fearsome nature
Darkvision: Half-orcs can see in the dark up to 30 feet. Darkvision is otherwise like normal sight but can function just fine with no light at all.
Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc as well as a human.
Orcen Ferocity: Half-orc gain Rage as a bonus feat,
Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal.

Half-Ogre
• +2, Strength +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, - 2 dexterity, -4 Charisma.
• DarkVision: Half-Ogres can see in the dark up to 60 feet.Darkvision is otherwise like normal sight but can function just fine with no light at all.
• A Half Ogre’s base land speed is 30 feet,
• +3 natural armor bonus.
• Large Size: As a Large creature a Half-ogre suffers a -4 penalty on Hide checks, gains a +4 bonus on grapple checks, uses larger weapons than a medium sized character and finds their lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
• Ogre Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-ogre is considered an ogre as well as a human.
Imposing Figure: Half-ogres get a +3 racial bonus to Intimidate checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common and Giant Bonus Languages Dwarven, Orc, Gnoll, goblin.