Let's Read A Song of Ice and Fire

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Spoiler: Off-topic about GRRM's writing speed

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Eh, I don't begrudge him for being heavily involved in the TV adaptation. If my baby was getting adapted into TV, especially if I had TV experience (which GRRM has lots of--it's how he got his start!), I would want to be as directly involved as I could be.

[Brewdude]

More Bear and maiden fair: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3b7fZIT0nk

And on the pace of books coming out: https://youtu.be/j7lp3RhzfgI

(both links are spoiler free)

Edit: Copy/paste is hard.

[TechnOkami]

More Bear and maiden fair: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3b7fZIT0nk

And on the pace of books coming out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3b7fZIT0nk

(both links are spoiler free)

They are both the same link though. D: Unless that was intentional.

[SaintRidley]

Let’s Read: A Song of Ice and Fire:
A Storm of Swords part two! ~100-~200!

If Game of Thrones is the prologue to the series, and A Clash of Kings seems to be the opening action proper, then A Storm of Swords begins the long middle of the series (until book 5), after which will be climax and denouement. Being its own book, and particularly being part of an epic saga in the literary sense, that doesn’t mean that the middle is to be without its interesting moments. Indeed, the middle is often where all the good stuff happens, while the really cool one-off stunt moments happen either at the beginning or at the end. The middle is also where people move about and we start to see new situations arise from the opportunity for characters to mingle and interact who haven’t before, or haven’t in a long time.

That’s all just a very long way of getting to the point that at this point in the story, many of our characters are on the move. Let’s see where they’re going.

Daenerys: Dany’s dragons are doing well at this point, beginning to grow and mature, and she’s also taught them how to breathe fire on command. A good idea. Dracarys is an interesting word; attempting to find any etymological roots to it in real-world languages led me to the amusing fact that in Finnish viserrys is the word for a chirp or twittering sound. Appropriate for Viserys, whose chirping made him a nuisance.

Dany holds loyalty very, very dear and appears to have trouble with the idea that some people put on fronts of kindliness and loyalty. If she learned anything from Mirri Maz Duur, it should have been the fact that a leader should never trust someone just because they’ve helped or offered help in the past. Ser Jorah is quick to remind her of this when it comes to Strong Belwas and his squire Arstan, as well as Illyrio.

There are a load of issues Jorah presents that make them suspicious, and he outlines an overland route designed to negate any trap Illyrio might have in the works. Illyrio’s a potential candidate for treason and would be a clear winner for gold, but that will have to wait and see.

There are interesting tidbits from Arstan and Jorah in terms of backstory. Arstan, who may be lying but I don’t imagine so just yet, tells us a good bit about prince Rhaegar, and Jorah explains the story of the Unsullied. Of course, the Unsullied have for their claim to fame the fact that a force of them could defeat a much larger force that doesn’t strategize at all, so their usefulness in a battle against worthy opponents might be less than advertized.

At the end of the chapter, Jorah makes a move and reveals his interpretation of the three heads: Dany and two husbands, with him as the first. Jorah now makes himself a candidate proper for a couple of these prophecies.

Bran: Bran’s ability to enter the wolf at will is only hampered by his inability or unwillingness to control the wolf after the fact. Jojen wants him to learn to control the wolf, and insists on heading north in order to do so. Jojen makes a good point ultimately in that so long as people believe Bran is dead, he’s safer that way. Giving Bran the final say worked – he’s willing to go – but only because he thought it through. With luck, one day Bran will understand metaphor and be able to interpret Jojen’s dreams.

Davos: Somebody wants to kill Melisandre. And can’t, because he’s arrested pretty quickly. We see one of Robert’s bastards here, Edric Storm, alive and well. Which means either Melisandre has had access to more of Robert’s bastards and hasn’t used him yet, or the bastard-fueled magic theory is a bust. I have a feeling this book may help me make up my mind on that, since we’ve been introduced to this particular bastard.

An astute reader might notice that Salladhor Saan has seized a ship belonging to one Illyrio Mopatis. I wonder what this ship was doing, and if this might be a hint that Illyrio looks to sell Dany to Stannis or Cersei at first opportunity.

Jaime: Jaime is lucky Brienne takes her duties seriously enough to not reveal who he is. They stumble upon an inn and trade some gold and their boat for horses. Not the best horses in the world, but horses enough for their purposes. Jaime’s leg shackles are cut – this could have been a bad idea on Brienne’s part.

The chapter features flashbacks from Jaime about his relationship with Cersei and his role in killing Aerys II. That seems to be the chief purpose of his role as a viewpoint character, really – insight into the events which spawned the plot that we can’t get from the other characters because they were either too young, not born, or absent from the action. Plus, he’s quippy and interesting like Tyrion, so he’s also a good character to have around to inject some humor into the book.

Tyrion: Speak of the devil. Tyrion’s on the outs with the goings on in King’s Landing, but he does have Varys as a source of information. He gets access to Shae, and he seems to have the beginnings of a plan to get Cersei and Osmund Kettleblack some unfriendly attention from Tywin. Wonder what would happen if Jaime found out.

We get a brief, frosty moment between Loras and Tyrion, though it does go better than Sansa’s brief, frosty moment. Perhaps we’ll see more of these and get some more info about Loras.

Tyrion’s got to watch himself, though. It’s all well and good to get Varys to let him use his chambers, and see Shae, and plot behind his father’s back, but he needs to be sure he’s untouchable. Which is no guarantee, when everyone in power in King’s Landing is watching him. We’ll see soon what he does about this Symon Silver Tongue, too.

Oh, and we learned not long ago from Varys that he hates magic. What does Tyrion figure out with Shae’s help? Vary’s bed has a counterweight spell. It’s reaching back a ways to a post from the first book, but Varys and Littlefinger are almost certainly the two people Arya heard talking about the book, the bastard, and the truth. Gendry’s the bastard in question on that front.

Arya: There’s a reason I started this post off with thoughts about characters on the move and such. This happens not long after Jaime’s chapter, because Arya, Gendry and Hot Pie come upon the same inn and have eyes on the boat. The inn is held by people calling themselves King Robert’s men, including an old friend from Winterfell: Harwin. Arya Underfoot is back. Being found and known will be a game changer.

Also, Hot Pie’s good at singing, and he likes the same song about the hairy bear that the Queen of Thorns used as cover for her conversation with Sansa.

There’s also a “Braavosi sellsword” with them. Valar morghulis, everybody.

Catelyn: Well, Robb’s back, and it’s nice to see him.

There’s some masterful manipulation of his mother in his pardon of her actions as a mistake made for love. Like seriously master class. Of course, this makes the complication that the Freys have now gone over to the Lannisters because Robb broke the one treaty keeping them with him.

Robb’s new wife doesn’t quite like Grey Wind, and Grey Wind doesn’t like Rolph Spicer. Catelyn knows to trust the wolf’s instincts, but all Robb knows is that Lady’s dead, Shaggydog and Summer failed to protect Rickon and Bran, and Nymeria was cast away. He’s the least likely of the Starks to ever truly bond with their wolf now. At least he’s going to put Rolph to some duty far off to ease his mother’s mind. Still not likely to work out for the best, but better.

While Catelyn trusts the wolf, Robb is quick to remind her that there are six, not five. He’s always going to do that. But if he doesn’t learn to trust Grey Wind’s judgment again, he’s going to die before the story is done.

And while the harrying tactics used against Tywin before are something I mentioned as well done, it appears Robb had different plans. He wanted to trap Tywin behind their lines and prevent him from being able to rally at King’s Landing. Smart, but might have been helpful to tell someone to make sure they actually did that.

Robb’s eyes are now turned north to retaking Winterfell, but first he needs to win back the Freys.

Things of importance:
* Robb’s married
* The Freys are a wildcard again.
* Arya found friendly people – or familiar, anyway.
* We meet Edric Storm

Predictions pulled out of my ass:
* Arya’s found someone familiar, but he seems to be part of a company loyal to Robert Baratheon. They’re not like to be won over to Robb Stark’s cause. Falling in with them is going to cause more trouble than it’s worth.

Dany’s Threes:
Three heads: Three identities. Mother of dragons and child of storms are obvious – the third, though… the one she seeks is Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Too obvious, though. Not the third head.
She thinks: the three ships she’s naming after the great dragons.
Jorah thinks: Dany and two husbands (him as one).
Three fires: life, death, love. There’s the obvious fire of Drogo’s funeral – the fire of life. The other two will come. No predictions as yet.
Three mounts: To bed, to dread, to love. Drogo was to bed. She will have another to dread, and if the Jon Snow as secret Targaryen and match to her thing works out he’s the one to love.
Three treasons: For blood, for gold, for love. I think Ser Jorah might betray her out of love. For blood, I don’t know. Depending on what happens with Illyrio Mopatis, we might have a new winner for gold.
She thinks: Mirri Maz Duur for blood.

[Seerow]

If Game of Thrones is the prologue to the series, and A Clash of Kings seems to be the opening action proper, then A Storm of Swords begins the long middle of the series (until book 5), after which will be climax and denouement. Being its own book, and particularly being part of an epic saga in the literary sense, that doesn’t mean that the middle is to be without its interesting moments. Indeed, the middle is often where all the good stuff happens, while the really cool one-off stunt moments happen either at the beginning or at the end. The middle is also where people move about and we start to see new situations arise from the opportunity for characters to mingle and interact who haven’t before, or haven’t in a long time.

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*laughs*


Ridley is actually expecting SoS to be the slow book. If this expectation came up a book later then it would be spot on, but instead.... well it should be a surprise. But may end up leading to whiplash as absolutely nothing happens through the last two books

[An Enemy Spy]

Spoiler

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Is it a spoiler to tell him it was Illyrio Varys was talking to and not Littlefinger? You could figure it out pretty easily if you were paying close attention at the time.

[Emperordaniel]

Spoiler

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Is it a spoiler to tell him it was Illyrio Varys was talking to and not Littlefinger? You could figure it out pretty easily if you were paying close attention at the time.

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I'd say yes, personally; I didn't figure it out myself until I watched that episode of the show.

[Legato Endless]

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Is it a spoiler to tell him it was Illyrio Varys was talking to and not Littlefinger? You could figure it out pretty easily if you were paying close attention at the time.

Spoiler: The Pair

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I would say no, but it's kind of a subjective thing. Two as a pair as opposed to rivals in the shadows does make the story rather less interesting.

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I'd say yes, personally; I didn't figure it out myself until I watched that episode of the show.

Yes, but that event happened in season 1 of the show. We're in book 3, so there's a rationale to this being known at this point. Especially since it's the biggest early indicator about what the pair is actually doing.

[SaintRidley]

Let’s Read: A Song of Ice and Fire:
A Storm of Swords part three! ~200-~300!

I knew we would still have at least one more viewpoint character to get to, so I’ve been avoiding making any kind of big storyline predictions for the course of this book. Now that we have what is probably all of them (we may get Theon again, but we’ll see – I’m not optimistic of seeing his viewpoint just yet), I’m going to finally be able to get my head around the potential arcs this book might take. Getting Sam’s viewpoint here helps make that possible.

Jon: A couple points in this chapter. We start off with Jon and Tormund, and seeing the giants. The description of the giants is not dissimilar to the giants in Harry Potter, especially the teeth and hairiness. Tormund tells some good stories, the truth of which are probably just the littlest bit exaggerated. What’s interesting is how Jon is doing a very, very bad job of attempting to blend in with the wildings, as Tormund notes with Ygritte.

Jon’s interpretation of this conversation is interesting, to say the least. He’s Ned’s son in this respect. No laws, no honor, no decency. While the wildings probably do rape quite a lot, Jon’s attitude here feels similar to an attitude that all sex without marriage is rape. He also conveniently seems either oblivious to or unwilling to recognize how much rape goes on south of the wall. Jon will have things to learn from the wildings, particularly about honor and that while the wildings don’t seem to value honor the way people south of the Wall do that means they also aren’t hypocrites.

Jon’s failure to be convincing is not terribly surprising – Ghost has all the subtlety of the pair, apparently. Mance absolutely does not trust Jon. Jon’s unwillingness to speak and to at least look like he’s trying was the big issue. Ygritte’s willing to help, though.

Sansa: A short chapter for Sansa. She’s getting a new dress, but what we really see is a sort of marked difference in her character. In Margaery’s cousins she recognizes herself, and she feels that she has evolved. They are silly little girls to her, while she is a woman grown. They know nothing. But she knows nothing as well. She doesn’t think miltidimensionally enough yet to have multiple plans in motion. She keeps telling Ser Dontos she’s saved by the Tyrells. Always have multiple escape avenues, girl.

Arya: The King’s men are loyal only to the memory of Robert and the smallfolk. I knew it wasn’t going to be so helpful to her, and we’ve learned that Lord Beric is their leader. I wonder if Selmy’s part of their group too. We also get a good bit of info on what was supposed to happen to Ned – he was supposed to be killed (less likely captured) by the Mountain, but Jaime got to him in King’s Landing first and botched that up by not knowing the plan. Jaime’s freedom is worrisome to the king’s men and the smallfolk. I’m beginning to see some possibilities that I’ll elaborate on later. She’s not escaping any time soon. Not without her wolf first.

Also, Hot Pie has stayed behind. I’ll miss the weird little guy. We might see him again, though.

Samwell: The chapter is primarily about filling us in on what happened between the prologue and now, giving Sam’s memories of the attack. The real focus of the chapter, though, is Sam beginning to overcome his self-doubt and belief that he’s utterly craven. He so craven he killed a white walker, as Grenn points out.

Tyrion: There’s a lot going on here. Littlefinger’s planning to win the Vale by marriage – and he stands the best chance of doing it, especially with lands and a title to his name. Littlefinger’s been playing a long game, and this seems certain to be part of it.

With Littlefinger’s attempt to woo Lysa comes Tyrion’s promotion to Master of Coin. There’s where Tyrion begins to have a possibility again of amassing some power around himself.

The Lannisters have predicted Robb’s move north, and they seem hesitant about alliance to the Greyjoys. Littlefinger plans to take a ship, the Merling King, to the Vale – have we seen that name before? It might be the ship Dontos has hired for Sansa. I’ll have to double check that. There’s a potential problem. Or perhaps some fun.

On to weddings. The Tyrells don’t like the Dornish delegation. Mace Tyrell wants quite a lot – perhaps too much. He may find his enjoyment of the wedding curtailed. Tyrion’s been given a marriage, and Cersei as well. Tywin likes the sound of Willas Tyrell for Cersei. Tyrion, meanwhile, is meant for Sansa.

Varys gives a report of a kraken seen off the Fingers, and dragons in Quarth. Nobody pays any heed. The Lannisters don’t recognize that the true dangers lie north of the Wall and across the sea to the east. Tyrion’s the only one to see the value of the Wall, and unfortunately Tywin seems to think it’s in his best interest for Rayder to menace the north. Not enough long-term thinking there to realize the wildings won’t stop in the north.

Catelyn: Jaime’s freedom is the gift that keeps on giving. Now Robb has lost the Karstarks, and Catelyn is desperately praying for heirs. It’s about the only thing they have at the moment, the hope of heirs. Because they don’t have much going right for them at the moment.

Jaime: Is that grudging respect for Brienne I see in Jaime after their fight? Cleos is dead, but he was a muttonhead anyway. More importantly for the moment, the Brave Companions found them. Some interesting moments include what appears to be an attempt by Jaime to prevent Brienne from getting raped, and his acknowledgement that he would rather be dead than subjected to that experience – one we’ll note is not uncommonly perpetrated by knights in this world.

And Jaime loses his hand(s) to Vargo Hoat, or so it appears. Maybe just his fingers. We’ll see. Either way, it’s a very hands-on approach to taking a hands-off prisoner capture policy. Tywin’s not going to appreciate that. Of course, Jaime won’t appreciate his sister being married off – he’d like to do that openly like a Targaryen.

So, now that we’re here, it looks like we have room to feel out the possibilities for the rest of the book. Arya’s going to have to act the lady if she has any hope of winning the King’s men to her brother’s cause. Doing so would give Robb a good group of people and popular support, at the cost of Arya’s fierce resistance to the constraints of feminine roles.

Robb, meanwhile, in this book is at the lowest point he will be in the series in several respects. His support is flagging, his kingdom crumbling. He’s going to spend this book and perhaps longer attempting to get back on track.

Tywin is shuffling the cards all over the place, making it very hard to keep up with what he’s doing. He’s the real wildcard in King’s Landing now, and everything there is going to be uncertain for a while, at least until the business of the weddings is settled.

Davos’s arc is going to involve Edric Storm, perhaps the real secret to Melisandre’s magic, and what’s to happen with Stannis.

Jaime’s arc seems squarely centered on him being forced to learn to rely on someone else for once, and this means Brienne gets to play a strong role as the real center of these chapters.

Jon will have to learn to adopt wilding ways – and he’s going to change as a result of it. The threat of the Others still looms; I wonder how that might complicate things north of the Wall.

Bran’s seeking control of his power, and the journey will be an important part of how he learns that control. The three-eyed bird is a metaphor, after all.

Sansa and Tyrion are on a collision course in their stories, which probably means someone is getting bumped off or a strange new alliance of sorts between the two of them may emerge. I’m not entirely sure which idea is more interesting yet. But if they’re to be married, bumped off seems less likely.

Things of importance:
* Dragonglass is kryptonite to White Walkers
* White Walkers are not just limited to human corpses? If bears can become Others, that’s not good.
* Wedding plans keep changing. Tyrion for Sansa would make a very, very interesting pair.
* The King’s men have a network of smallfolk on their side
* Jaime missing hand(s) or fingers, and captured by the Bloody Mummers.


Predictions pulled out of my ass:
* Jon will not be earning Mance’s trust easily, if at all before this book is done. It’s going to take killing Mormont to do it.
* Arya’s going to have to try to win the King’s men and the smallfolk to Robb’s cause.
* Sam has the secret to killing the Others. He will make it back to the Wall and get word out before Mance gets there.

Dany’s Threes:
Three heads: Three identities. Mother of dragons and child of storms are obvious – the third, though… the one she seeks is Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Too obvious, though. Not the third head. Of course, this one’s most open and could have several meanings.
She thinks: the three ships she’s naming after the great dragons.
Jorah thinks: Dany and two husbands (him as one).
Three fires: life, death, love. There’s the obvious fire of Drogo’s funeral – the fire of life. The other two will come. No predictions as yet.
Three mounts: To bed, to dread, to love. Drogo was to bed. She will have another to dread (Jorah if he turns out to be a treason), and if the Jon Snow as secret Targaryen and match to her thing works out he’s the one to love.
Three treasons: For blood, for gold, for love. I think Ser Jorah might betray her out of love. For blood, I don’t know, though, because I’m starting to think the three treasons might all be future events from the point of the vision – as in nothing before the vision will count. Depending on what happens with Illyrio Mopatis, we might have a winner for gold.
She thinks: Mirri Maz Duur for blood.

[Seerow]

Always a pleasure to read, almost as much fun to read as it is frustrating trying to figure out what I am allowed to say.


I suppose the traditional "oh my sweet summer child" will be suitable here.

[An Enemy Spy]

Spoiler: The funniest part

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"Robb, meanwhile, in this book is at the lowest point he will be in the series "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You are so adorable.

On a non-spoilery note, it should be said that the dead people are not becoming Others. There are the Others, which are created by unspecified means (the show reveals it and there's a scene in ASOS that implies it, but detail isn't given) and the wights, which are the risen corpses of people and animals. The Others create the wights and use them as their army.

[TechnOkami]

Spoiler: The funniest part

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"Robb, meanwhile, in this book is at the lowest point he will be in the series "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You are so adorable.

Isn't it though?

[An Enemy Spy]

Isn't it though?

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I would think being murdered and paraded around with his wolf's head sewn onto his shoulders would be his lowest point.

[SaintRidley]

On a non-spoilery note, it should be said that the dead people are not becoming Others. There are the Others, which are created by unspecified means (the show reveals it and there's a scene in ASOS that implies it, but detail isn't given) and the wights, which are the risen corpses of people and animals. The Others create the wights and use them as their army.

Huh. The distinction never seemed very strongly... erm... distinguished. So if I have things straight, Others make wights. Others are White Walkers. Wights and Others are both affected by dragonglass?

[An Enemy Spy]

Huh. The distinction never seemed very strongly... erm... distinguished. So if I have things straight, Others make wights. Others are White Walkers. Wights and Others are both affected by dragonglass?

The Others are described as sort of beautiful icy creatures, all shimmery and inhuman with suits of armor and swords made of ice, while the wights are corpses in varying states of rot depending the state of their body when it was turned with black hands and feet and bright blue eyes.
As for the dragonglass, well you'll have to read and find out.

[TechnOkami]

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I would think being murdered and paraded around with his wolf's head sewn onto his shoulders would be his lowest point.

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I was trying to say it in a way that implied I was agreeing with you, but I guess I should have specified HIM being cute rather than saying it in a way that questioned the idea. *shrug*

[SaintRidley]

Okay. So so far we've really only seen wights, right? I don't recall any Others, if corpsicles aren't Others.

[Logic]

Okay. So so far we've really only seen wights, right? I don't recall any Others, if corpsicles aren't Others.

I think there have been at least two others, but I can't pin down which ones were others, and which ones were corpsicle wights. I think if anything is an Other, it is one of the creatures in the Prologue of book 1, but I could be mistaken.

[An Enemy Spy]

The ones that killed Waymar Royce in AGOT and the one Samwell Tarly killed with the dragonglass were Others. The rest were wights.

[t209]

One thing that bugs me about War of Five Kings.
Yes, Feudalism is bad but the nobles seem to mock those who wish to protect the peasants, despite them being the one providing tax money and farm produces. Not to mention locking them out of castle. In doing so, the entire kingdom would be dead within one year.
And most battles in medieval tended to be small scale battle and raids, though have fair share of destructive battles.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...censeEconomics
I don't know why they deleted that entry in that page (literature section) though. Either that or it was written before the release of Feast for Crows.

[SaintRidley]

This is all really useful and helpful information for keeping things straight.

[Legato Endless]

Jon’s interpretation of this conversation is interesting, to say the least. He’s Ned’s son in this respect. No laws, no honor, no decency. While the wildings probably do rape quite a lot, Jon’s attitude here feels similar to an attitude that all sex without marriage is rape. He also conveniently seems either oblivious to or unwilling to recognize how much rape goes on south of the wall. Jon will have things to learn from the wildings, particularly about honor and that while the wildings don’t seem to value honor the way people south of the Wall do that means they also aren’t hypocrites.

It's easy to understand Jon's summation, though far too culturally dismissing. He's spent his life living with a paragon of the Westerosi system, a man who tries to uphold the law and not exploit it for his own game. And the first Wildling Jon has spent any real time with is, among other things, a slaver and rapist.

Littlefinger’s planning to win the Vale by marriage – and he stands the best chance of doing it, especially with lands and a title to his name. Littlefinger’s been playing a long game, and this seems certain to be part of it.

On to weddings. The Tyrells don’t like the Dornish delegation. Mace Tyrell wants quite a lot – perhaps too much. He may find his enjoyment of the wedding curtailed.

Mace didn't exactly inherent his mother's intelligence or cunning.

Varys gives a report of a kraken seen off the Fingers, and dragons in Quarth. Nobody pays any heed. The Lannisters don’t recognize that the true dangers lie north of the Wall and across the sea to the east. Tyrion’s the only one to see the value of the Wall, and unfortunately Tywin seems to think it’s in his best interest for Rayder to menace the north. Not enough long-term thinking there to realize the wildings won’t stop in the north.

This is pretty fair though based on past experience. Subtracting the supernatural from the equation, the Wildlings haven't managed a singular successful invasion into the South. And hasn't been for lack of trying over the millennia. The Night's Watch and the Northmen are just more than their match typically.

Tywin is shuffling the cards all over the place, making it very hard to keep up with what he’s doing. He’s the real wildcard in King’s Landing now, and everything there is going to be uncertain for a while, at least until the business of the weddings is settled.

Indeed.

Davos’s arc is going to involve Edric Storm, perhaps the real secret to Melisandre’s magic, and what’s to happen with Stannis.

You mean the source? Or how she does it?

[SaintRidley]

More source than method. Method's alluded to, given the way we've seen the magic happen, but there might be bits of the method I'm unclear/wrong about that might get cleared up.

[Legato Endless]

One thing that bugs me about War of Five Kings.
Yes, Feudalism is bad but the nobles seem to mock those who wish to protect the peasants, despite them being the one providing tax money and farm produces. Not to mention locking them out of castle. In doing so, the entire kingdom would be dead within one year.
And most battles in medieval tended to be small scale battle and raids, though have fair share of destructive battles.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...censeEconomics
I don't know why they deleted that entry in that page (literature section) though. Either that or it was written before the release of Feast for Crows.

While ASoIaF gets a lot right and is generally well thought out, there occasionally some...odd ideas that don't quite make sense. The duel for Tyrion's freedom where the man who full plate fights a man in chain. The Knight's obviously supposed to represent a blinded impractical aspect of the nobility to the mercenary's deadly practicality. Except the man in full plate should be not only better protected, but actually more maneuverable and faster since while they weigh much the same thing, plate distributes the weight much better. So while Bronn being younger and more able is a decent excuse, his strategy really makes a lot less sense than the text implies.

The representation of Siegecraft is also a bit odd. While Tyrion greatly fears a breakdown of the social system due to the Siege. Now, starving a mass population can indeed lead to a horrific breakdown however... Historically, the reality of the Siege actually more often led to better internal cohesion in the late Middle Ages, since the logistics, governance, manpower and other employ like militia, artisans, masons and the like required a more close knit organized community. This ties back into your comment about Feudalism. As well as creating an Other to unite the general population against.

The populations of the Seven Kingdoms have never made sense. The Riverlands, despite being a bastion of fertile lands, fields vanishingly few troops. The Iron Islands on the other hand must apparently have been empowered by the Drowned God or something, considering how many reavers and ships they manage to pop out. Etc.

[SaintRidley]

Yeah, there's a reason I haven't bothered to touch the economics of Westeros here.

[Gnoman]

The representation of Siegecraft is also a bit odd. While Tyrion greatly fears a breakdown of the social system due to the Siege. Now, starving a mass population can indeed lead to a horrific breakdown however... Historically, the reality of the Siege actually more often led to better internal cohesion in the late Middle Ages, since the logistics, governance, manpower and other employ like militia, artisans, masons and the like required a more close knit organized community. This ties back into your comment about Feudalism. As well as creating an Other to unite the general population against.

In this case, you're making the mistake of forgetting that the War of The Five Kings is not only a succession war, but a squabble among purely domestic nobles. THere's no Other, no Glorious Cause, and no He Stands Between You and This. The smallfolk know full well that it isn't going to matter in the least whether the crown is worn by a stag, a lion, or a wolf, and the war's primarily about which stag gets the thing. They're forced into danger of starvation, fire, and the sword primarily because nobody can prove who shared the Queen's sheets, and they know it. Things will go back to normal once all but one of the pretenders is dead, and they don't even pretend to care which one.

The North is different, because all the evidence suggests a much tighter bond between the Starks, their vassals, and their smallfolk than is standard in the realm, and victory for House Stark means they would belong to One kingdom instead of Seven, one in which the Old Gods would displace the southern gods. There, there IS a Cause to rally around.

[ryuplaneswalker]

In this case, you're making the mistake of forgetting that the War of The Five Kings is not only a succession war, but a squabble among purely domestic nobles. THere's no Other, no Glorious Cause, and no He Stands Between You and This. The smallfolk know full well that it isn't going to matter in the least whether the crown is worn by a stag, a lion, or a wolf, and the war's primarily about which stag gets the thing. They're forced into danger of starvation, fire, and the sword primarily because nobody can prove who shared the Queen's sheets, and they know it. Things will go back to normal once all but one of the pretenders is dead, and they don't even pretend to care which one.

The North is different, because all the evidence suggests a much tighter bond between the Starks, their vassals, and their smallfolk than is standard in the realm, and victory for House Stark means they would belong to One kingdom instead of Seven, one in which the Old Gods would displace the southern gods. There, there IS a Cause to rally around.

You know what does not help King's Landing Morale.

Jofferry "My Grand Daddy sacked the City, and I told my own people to eat their dead. No really I shot one and told them to eat her" Barathion.

[Sliver]

It's just a phase. It will pass.

[SaintRidley]

I imagine it will pass when he passes.

[Emperordaniel]

I think there have been at least two others, but I can't pin down which ones were others, and which ones were corpsicle wights. I think if anything is an Other, it is one of the creatures in the Prologue of book 1, but I could be mistaken.

If I recall, the prologue of A Game of Thrones is the only time we've seen more than one Other in the same place (when the group accompanying the first one emerged around Waymar Royce's prone form and butchered him).