Dark Souls III: Witty Title Pending

[Spacewolf]

Spoiler: Hunters

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Something I was wondering about today is that some hunters apparently lose their status as hunters during the hunt and therefore become able to die Djura seems to be a hunter who has survived a previous hunt so doesn't really count other than that Alfred and Eileen plus the other unnamed ones you come across can all die permanently if you kill them (Or one or two other ways). I suspect it might have to do with either going mad or losing the will to continue if either of these two thing happen then the hunter once again becomes mortal, yet since they die during the hunt their body is still retrieved to the Hunters dream rather than staying where it is. Sound logical?

What's the deal with the...

Spoiler

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references to things being a "dream"? (It better not be "all just a dream" :P)

Spoiler

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Eh the Hunter Dream is where you go when you die or use a lantern but since that's so obvious I suspect you mean the more spoilerifc version. Yea it's not really explained totally but I'd suggest that the reason the Hunts start is that one of the Old Ones begin to awake and dream of the world, these dreams can be enough to twist the weak willed due to the beast in all people. If nothing noteworthy happens during the night it basically passes without incident however if something does happen (I.e. the "Death" of Rom) then it causes them it to begin to wake more and more until it finally truly awakes or is lulled back to sleep. I'm not sure what happens after the dream ends though presumably those who became monsters either disappear or are able to be killed once and for all and those that didn't get to rebuild. At least that's my current theory although it does have some holes.

[Rodin]

Apparently, that memory leak bug affects more than just bosses. I was fighting a certain, spoilery set of enemies that show up once the night has advanced a bit (after defeating the Blood-Starved Beast) and in previous games I had just been able to bait out an attack and then shoot them with my pistol to stagger, then rinse and repeat until they were dead.

With the game freshly reset...not so much. I got my head repeatedly pounded into the pavement while I learned their actual moveset and wound up cheesing some of them by escaping through a door designed for short, non-scary people and poking them to death.

I really hope they patch this bug soon, because the bug is freaking insidious. There's no evidence that it's happened until you run into something with an abbreviated moveset...and then you have to KNOW that it normally has a larger moveset.

Calemyr, love your summation of the plot. It makes sense of a lot of stuff that didn't for me, and all that stuff is now firmly head-canoned.

[TechnOkami]

To be fair I cheese the game's mechanics.

Spoiler: For those who think my cheese is too stinky...

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So, you know the bridge where you fight the Cleric Beast? You know those two annoying actual werewolves at the other end of the bridge that I (personally) find really annoying to fight? Well, I lead them across to where I would normally have fought the Cleric Beast, and they can't go past a certain point because of the Lantern being some kind of in-game safe zone from monsters. They might physically attack past that point, but they'll immediately back away from the zone. I use that to bait them into attacking, retreating, and giving me more predictable windows of opportunity to kill them dead.

[Spacewolf]

You can hide in the doorway down the stairs as well that's how I killed them the first few times.

[Zevox]

So, I finished Dark Souls 2. Honestly, I have pretty much the same reaction to it as the first game. The story is just this side of nonexistant, but it's a fun action-dungeon-crawler. I do think the first one did a bit better with the less frequent bosses - some of the ones in this one just wound up pretty unimpressive and easy to handle, likely a result of not enough good ideas to go around for so many. Heck, even the final boss was a pushover - I couldn't do anything to avoid her curse effect, but she basically never hit me with anything else, so it didn't matter.

[Snowbluff]

Good, now you have DLC to get through.

[Rodin]

Was searching for a Co-op player again today. Spent the entire level with the bell ding-donging away. Right before the boss, on a whim, I turned the search pattern from "Worldwide" to "Local".

BOOM. Instant summons. Suddenly, everywhere I go there is jolly cooperation.

Why exactly "Worldwide" excludes "other people in my area" I'm not really sure. Even assuming there's a good reason like making it easier for players in different countries to find each other, why are there less players "Worldwide" then "Local"? Enough that co-op is basically impossible "Worldwide" while very easy "Local"?

Oh, and a neat thing I noticed: If your host dies or you beat the area boss, you return to where you were summoned from. If YOU die, you are instead returned to the lantern. It makes sense if all Hunters are returned to the Hunter's Dream when they die...

You do keep your souls though, so that's nice. Offering co-op is still a risk free way to get some leveling done.

[BladeofObliviom]

So, I finished Dark Souls 2. Honestly, I have pretty much the same reaction to it as the first game. The story is just this side of nonexistant, but it's a fun action-dungeon-crawler. I do think the first one did a bit better with the less frequent bosses - some of the ones in this one just wound up pretty unimpressive and easy to handle, likely a result of not enough good ideas to go around for so many. Heck, even the final boss was a pushover - I couldn't do anything to avoid her curse effect, but she basically never hit me with anything else, so it didn't matter.

Congrats! I myself am nearing the end of the game, I'm pretty sure. (I've been stuck on King Vendrick for weeks. He is something of a cheap boss fight.)

I've seen enough to say that I basically agree with your assessment.

[DaedalusMkV]

Congrats! I myself am nearing the end of the game, I'm pretty sure. (I've been stuck on King Vendrick for weeks. He is something of a cheap boss fight.)

I've seen enough to say that I basically agree with your assessment.

Have... Have you already beaten the three Memories of the Giants after by talking to the Ancient Dragon and walking into the giant trees in the Forest of Fallen Giants? Because without having at least two and preferably four Souls of a Giant in your inventory, Vendrick is unreasonably tough and will always one-shot you. He's also entirely optional, so if you're having trouble with him just go put on your King's Ring and explore another area you haven't been to yet.

[Rodin]

Have... Have you already beaten the three Memories of the Giants after by talking to the Ancient Dragon and walking into the giant trees in the Forest of Fallen Giants? Because without having at least two and preferably four Souls of a Giant in your inventory, Vendrick is unreasonably tough and will always one-shot you. He's also entirely optional, so if you're having trouble with him just go put on your King's Ring and explore another area you haven't been to yet.

I think he one-shots you regardless, unless you have super high HP and/or heavy armor. The Giant souls just cut his armor in half, with the effect being exponential for each one. so that by the time you have 4 of them he's down to just 2x armor (and can be dropped down to 1x if you manage the unreasonably hard task of acquiring a 5th). It doesn't reduce his damage though, so you still either have to fight him perfectly or be able to tank him.

The one time I beat him it was with full Havel's. Block a hit, strike once, recharge stamina. Rinse and repeat for like 10 freaking minutes. Messing up cost me most of my HP bar and several cycles of blocking while using Estus to get back to a survivable level.

[Zevox]

Good, now you have DLC to get through.

Not unless it's free I don't.

Congrats! I myself am nearing the end of the game, I'm pretty sure. (I've been stuck on King Vendrick for weeks. He is something of a cheap boss fight.)

I've seen enough to say that I basically agree with your assessment.

I actually didn't kill Vendrick. He's wholly optional, and even with four Giant Souls I found him too tough to be worth trying to beat. Maybe if he didn't take off 80%+ of my health minimum and one-shot me with his overhead strike I'd keep trying, but as-is that's a bit too unforgiving for my tastes, given how long it'd take to whittle his health down.

[BladeofObliviom]

Have... Have you already beaten the three Memories of the Giants after by talking to the Ancient Dragon and walking into the giant trees in the Forest of Fallen Giants? Because without having at least two and preferably four Souls of a Giant in your inventory, Vendrick is unreasonably tough and will always one-shot you. He's also entirely optional, so if you're having trouble with him just go put on your King's Ring and explore another area you haven't been to yet.

I think he one-shots you regardless, unless you have super high HP and/or heavy armor. The Giant souls just cut his armor in half, with the effect being exponential for each one. so that by the time you have 4 of them he's down to just 2x armor (and can be dropped down to 1x if you manage the unreasonably hard task of acquiring a 5th). It doesn't reduce his damage though, so you still either have to fight him perfectly or be able to tank him.

The one time I beat him it was with full Havel's. Block a hit, strike once, recharge stamina. Rinse and repeat for like 10 freaking minutes. Messing up cost me most of my HP bar and several cycles of blocking while using Estus to get back to a survivable level.

I do have four Souls of a Giant. He doesn't actually oneshot me; I have just enough HP/Resists to soak a hit as long as I'm above 75%.

The real problem is that his combos are kinda cheap. He doesn't care in the slightest if you block him, and will happily continue to chain attacks faster than you can reasonably get out of the way unless you're extremely close to the edge of his range and time a roll juuust right.


Also, where else can I go? I'm not sure where else to go or what else I can do. I've only found three Kings Gates in the game: One in the Forest (for the Giant Memories), One in the Shaded Woods (which is how I got here), and one in Drangliec Castle which led to a boss arena that I cleared but is apparently a dead end otherwise. Did I miss something important?

[Zevox]

Also, where else can I go? I'm not sure where else to go or what else I can do. I've only found three Kings Gates in the game: One in the Forest (for the Giant Memories), One in the Shaded Woods (which is how I got here), and one in Drangliec Castle which led to a boss arena that I cleared but is apparently a dead end otherwise. Did I miss something important?

In one of those Giant Memories you fight a boss Giant. If you've beaten that, it should have given you a plot item (I forget what it's called). If you have that, go back to the Dranglec Castle boss arena you mentioned to fight the final boss.

[TechnOkami]

This might just be me, but Vendrick's pretty easy imo. You just stick to one of his legs, roll at specific times when he makes a sweeping attack, and hit him after he finishes his attack animation. It's like dealing with Havel, just bigger. You do need those Giants souls to deal with him. Trust me, I tried doing it without them. He just doesn't take damage, period.

@Blade: assuming you've done the DLC's already, I legitimately don't know where you are in the game. I'd advise you, but my general lack of knowledge on where you've been to makes that a tad difficult.

[BladeofObliviom]

In one of those Giant Memories you fight a boss Giant. If you've beaten that, it should have given you a plot item (I forget what it's called). If you have that, go back to the Dranglec Castle boss arena you mentioned to fight the final boss.

Oh. I guess that explains what the Giant's Kinship is; its description was just more of the rambling about Kings and stuff that the Emerald Herald's been spouting the whole game. Not sure how I was supposed to figure out to go back there without either random guessing or being informed of it, though. >.>

I guess it did seem like too dramatic of a level design to simply be a venue for another pair of dudes in armor, though.

This might just be me, but Vendrick's pretty easy imo. You just stick to one of his legs, roll at specific times when he makes a sweeping attack, and hit him after he finishes his attack animation. It's like dealing with Havel, just bigger. You do need those Giants souls to deal with him. Trust me, I tried doing it without them. He just doesn't take damage, period.

Hmm, I didn't consider trying to hug him. My usual strategy is sorcery spamming at range, so it's not what the character's optimized for, but it's probably an improvement over getting staggerlocked to death.

I killed Havel with Poisoned Knives and abuse of his aggro radius. :invisiblesmallyuk:

@Blade: assuming you've done the DLC's already, I legitimately don't know where you are in the game. I'd advise you, but my general lack of knowledge on where you've been to makes that a tad difficult.

I don't have any of the DLCs. I have beaten the Giant Lord and have four giant souls, have beaten Throne Watcher and Throne Defender, I've lit all four Primal Bonfires, and met (though didn't fight) the Ancient Dragon. I was unsure what to do or where to go other than going back for Vendrick (since everyone kept saying to Seek the King and that there can't be two Kings and etc. etc.)

Apparently I guess I'm supposed to go back to the Throne of Want though.

[TechnOkami]

I don't have any of the DLCs. I have beaten the Giant Lord and have four giant souls, have beaten Throne Watcher and Throne Defender, I've lit all four Primal Bonfires, and met (though didn't fight) the Ancient Dragon. I was unsure what to do or where to go other than going back for Vendrick (since everyone kept saying to Seek the King and that there can't be two Kings and etc. etc.)

Apparently I guess I'm supposed to go back to the Throne of Want though.

FEEBLE POISON KNIFE THROWING CURSED ONE
Well it seems you already know what to do and what's left of your plate, although the DLC's aren't too bad. Certain bosses are kinda bs in their respective titles, but I won't go into detail.

[Zevox]

Oh. I guess that explains what the Giant's Kinship is; its description was just more of the rambling about Kings and stuff that the Emerald Herald's been spouting the whole game. Not sure how I was supposed to figure out to go back there without either random guessing or being informed of it, though. >.>

Neither am I. I shamelessly used a guide to figure out where to go when, though. I'm not a fan of games expecting me to wander around with little to no clue where I'm going, as these ones sometimes do. I actually didn't go to the Throne of Want at all until I had the Giant's Kinship as a result though, so I got to fight the Throne Watcher and Defender and the final boss back-to-back. Not that it made much difference, honestly, but still.

[DaedalusMkV]

Yeah, I killed Vendrick on my first real attempt. He's slow as molasses and can't turn for anything. Just get behind him with any fast weapon and poke him to death; if you're careful and keep moving every time he starts his lumbering, circular turn, you'll never get hit. Put away your Sorceries and your Hexes, grab an Infused rapier and he's one of the easiest bosses in the game.

[Rodin]

As I recall, my biggest struggle on my successful Vendrick attempt was that my weapon, the Dragon's Tooth, had awful durability compared to some other weapons. It wasn't normally a problem, because it did massive amounts of damage and pancaked everything. Against Vendrick though, it broke 75% of the way through the fight and I had to maneuver through my inventory and find my backup weapon (a Demon's Hammer) while still avoiding his giant sword.

Bloodborne ending speculation:

Spoiler: Plot and ending

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Just beat the game again, and chose to let Gehrman kill me for the first time.

What I noticed is that what the doll says about the graves earlier in the game - that they are to honor fallen hunters. But hunters DON'T typically fall - they get resurrected in the dream. So why graves?

Because you can get killed for good...by completing the Hunt. After you complete it, Gehrman kills the dream you permanently. So, each grave represents a past Hunt which was successfully completed by a Hunter. It happens often enough that the townspeople know to lock themselves away at night.

The cycle continues, either way. By allowing Gehrman to kill you, you've completed that particular Hunt, and your grave is added to the many revered by the doll. Another Hunt will be along eventually, and the Hunter's Dream is there waiting. If you don't allow him to kill you, the Moon Presence comes down and makes you the new guardian. I can't recall at the moment whether it was said that Gehrman created the Hunter's Dream, but if it's not outright stated then it could be that Gehrman was a past Hunter who rejected the death option and killed the previous caretaker. If you defeat the Moon Presence, you get turned into a baby Moon Presence and wind up looking after the Hunter's Dream yourself.

As to why the Moon Presence is maintaining the Hunter's Dream in the first place...I'm not sure.

[TechnOkami]

An update as to where I am. I beat Father Gascoigne finally, the first of the bosses to give me any real trouble. I'm finding that out of all the weapons I've used, I'm just loving the Kirkhammer at the moment. I hacked my way all the way up to the first lamp of Old Yarnham.

Side note:

Spoiler

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I somehow get an uneasy feeling wanting to send people to either the incense-filled chapel or Josefka's clinic. I feel like both will eat whoever you send. I did send somebody over to Josefka's thinking she was ok, but she then asked me to send her more people and finished it with this cackle, and then I tried to hammer my way into the place, and proceeded to piss her off as an NPC. I don't think I can interact with her anymore. I hope I didn't block myself from anything too vital...

[Calemyr]

An update as to where I am. I beat Father Gascoigne finally, the first of the bosses to give me any real trouble. I'm finding that out of all the weapons I've used, I'm just loving the Kirkhammer at the moment. I hacked my way all the way up to the first lamp of Old Yarnham.

Side note:

Spoiler

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I somehow get an uneasy feeling wanting to send people to either the incense-filled chapel or Josefka's clinic. I feel like both will eat whoever you send. I did send somebody over to Josefka's thinking she was ok, but she then asked me to send her more people and finished it with this cackle, and then I tried to hammer my way into the place, and proceeded to piss her off as an NPC. I don't think I can interact with her anymore. I hope I didn't block myself from anything too vital...

Spoiler: If it eases your mind

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Josefka uses the people you send her as experiments, transforming them into the blue "celestials" you find later in the game. To my knowledge there's not a lot about her - she stops giving out blood vials by the time you hit the grand chapel and her only real purpose afterwards is to kill her much later to get a third of an umbilical cord for the "true" ending.

The monster who runs the sanctuary seems to truly be a well-meaning and lonely soul who just wants to help people and make friends. The people in the sanctuary are safe... kinda. If they leave the sanctuary for any reason (the old lady will wander off if you get sedatives from her three times), they will die. And if you tell the bandaged beggar in the Forbidden Wood about the place, he'll systematically kill off everyone you send there. (He's a really scary monster in disguise.) Giving him to Josefka reduces him to a harmless celestial - unless you hit him, at which point you fight him at full strength without the advantage of small tunnels to hide within while chucking poison daggers at him.

Big on the Kirkhammer, are you? Do you mean the "silver sword" mode or the "big ass chunk of metal" mode? The silver sword mode handles exactly like the one Ludwig's Holy Blade has, which makes it a very effective early game weapon, but the hammer mode is, well... ssssoooooooo sssssllllooooow... If it suits you though, that's good.

[Rodin]

Spoiler: If it eases your mind

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Josefka uses the people you send her as experiments, transforming them into the blue "celestials" you find later in the game. To my knowledge there's not a lot about her - she stops giving out blood vials by the time you hit the grand chapel and her only real purpose afterwards is to kill her much later to get a third of an umbilical cord for the "true" ending.

The monster who runs the sanctuary seems to truly be a well-meaning and lonely soul who just wants to help people and make friends. The people in the sanctuary are safe... kinda. If they leave the sanctuary for any reason (the old lady will wander off if you get sedatives from her three times), they will die. And if you tell the bandaged beggar in the Forbidden Wood about the place, he'll systematically kill off everyone you send there. (He's a really scary monster in disguise.) Giving him to Josefka reduces him to a harmless celestial - unless you hit him, at which point you fight him at full strength without the advantage of small tunnels to hide within while chucking poison daggers at him.

Spoiler: Actually...

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The bandaged beggar becomes totally harmless if you send him to Josefka. Couple hits, done. At least, that's what happened for me when I deliberately sent him there as revenge for the previous game where he killed everybody. You get his Rune, too.

Big on the Kirkhammer, are you? Do you mean the "silver sword" mode or the "big ass chunk of metal" mode? The silver sword mode handles exactly like the one Ludwig's Holy Blade has, which makes it a very effective early game weapon, but the hammer mode is, well... ssssoooooooo sssssllllooooow... If it suits you though, that's good.

It's slow, but I liked it. It pancakes nicely, and the second hit from the Charge attack is a "Home Run" hit which can punt even the big trolls across the room. Very satisfying. Thanks to its scaling, it's probably the second-best pure Strength weapon after the ridonkulousness that is Ludwig's Holy Blade.

[TechnOkami]

I'm big on the hammer mode, for those who were wondering.

[Spacewolf]

Bloodborne ending speculation:

Spoiler: Plot and ending

Show

Just beat the game again, and chose to let Gehrman kill me for the first time.

What I noticed is that what the doll says about the graves earlier in the game - that they are to honor fallen hunters. But hunters DON'T typically fall - they get resurrected in the dream. So why graves?

Because you can get killed for good...by completing the Hunt. After you complete it, Gehrman kills the dream you permanently. So, each grave represents a past Hunt which was successfully completed by a Hunter. It happens often enough that the townspeople know to lock themselves away at night.

The cycle continues, either way. By allowing Gehrman to kill you, you've completed that particular Hunt, and your grave is added to the many revered by the doll. Another Hunt will be along eventually, and the Hunter's Dream is there waiting. If you don't allow him to kill you, the Moon Presence comes down and makes you the new guardian. I can't recall at the moment whether it was said that Gehrman created the Hunter's Dream, but if it's not outright stated then it could be that Gehrman was a past Hunter who rejected the death option and killed the previous caretaker. If you defeat the Moon Presence, you get turned into a baby Moon Presence and wind up looking after the Hunter's Dream yourself.

As to why the Moon Presence is maintaining the Hunter's Dream in the first place...I'm not sure.

Spoiler

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I dunno I don't really think that explains Djura who according the the Stake Driver stopped being a hunter, yet is both somehow alive and also back in the nightmare. Or is at least somewhat aware of what is going on but doesn't necessarily see what we see.

On a different topic

Spoiler: Expansion packs

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What do people want to see in them? For DS is was obvious Artorius would be involved due to the amount of lore around him and you could probably guess the other two Knights would show up as well (Although Manus and Kalmeet were pretty much out of the blue). From what I understand DS2 the Old Iron king showed up quite prominently in lore but you didn't get to kill him, but for BB I don't really see any possible enemies that could be expanded on in the same way. I suppose they could just toss some more old ones at us but I doubt that would be very satisfying considering we don't know how many more there are or if we are even killing them when we defeat them or if we just banish them back to wherever they come from so really the only one I can think of would be Laurence. Really this game could have done with an intro to give us an idea of what we are accomplishing.

Anyway what do you you guys think the expansion pack will have in it.

Edit: I just fought the Headless Bloodletting beast and when I died to it it said something along the lines of "The time has come again, we will meet again old friend." Anyone got any Ideas what that's about?

[Rosstin]

I'm sure that the dev team is holding a ton of content back for Bloodborne. The world doesn't have tons of loose ends visible, but obviously there are huge missing gaps where content would be, like...

Spoiler

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There was obviously supposed to be a transformation thing.

Bloodborne was clearly very rushed. What amazes me is how good these games always are despite FromSoft's crazy schedules. XD

[Rodin]

Spoiler

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I dunno I don't really think that explains Djura who according the the Stake Driver stopped being a hunter, yet is both somehow alive and also back in the nightmare. Or is at least somewhat aware of what is going on but doesn't necessarily see what we see.

Spoiler

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I thought that Djura was in the real world? All of Yharnam that you run around in is the real world, I thought. The only places that are in the nightmare are the Byrgenwerth Lecture Hall (which was in the real world but somehow got detached from reality, because screwing around with Lovecraftian horrors is bad, mmkay?), the Nightmare Frontier, and the Nightmare of Mensis. The Hunter's Dream is also not real, but is its own place.

Djura could still have completed a hunt (or simply backed out and forced Gehrman to kill him) and then taken up looking after the beasts out of remorse. I admit that I haven't actually talked to him though, the thought of revenge for that damn minigun always overtakes me. I'm about at a point on my current run where I could go talk to him, so I think I'll do that.

I'm sure that the dev team is holding a ton of content back for Bloodborne. The world doesn't have tons of loose ends visible, but obviously there are huge missing gaps where content would be, like...

Spoiler

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There was obviously supposed to be a transformation thing.

Bloodborne was clearly very rushed. What amazes me is how good these games always are despite FromSoft's crazy schedules. XD

There's a lot of speculation over a couple of doors in the game. There's one in the Cathedral Ward that just says "Closed" and the door never opens, and a mysterious hatch in

Spoiler

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Byrgenwerth.

The first one I think is pretty obviously a dummied out shortcut. I went all over that area with the Monocular and worked out the geometry of the area. On the ledge just below where you can walk, you can see a door. If you then follow the layout of the stairs you can trace it back to that door. That ledge then has a small gap in the railing where you could drop down to a bridge. DLC right? Buuuuut...remember how I said I needed the Monocular? If you examine the area you can see closely, that bridge is actually where you fought the Cleric Beast. So it's a way to drop back down there without going through the sewers.

Presumably, it was dummied out because there simply isn't a need for it. There's no reason to go back to where the Cleric Beast was, and a one-way shortcut back into an already cleared zone is of strictly limited utility.



As I'm at work and bored again...Weapons review!

Spoiler: Weapons stuff

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Weapons I have omitted because I haven't tried them: Burial Blade (never remember to save Bloodstone Chunks to go into New Game+ with) and Logarius Wheel (working on a Strength/Arcane build now to try it out) and Beast Claw (same reason as Burial Blade, never got it prior to New Game+ and couldn't level it up enough to make it relevant there).

Rank A

Ludwig's Holy Blade - An excellent weapon for the many reasons listed in posts earlier in the thread, I originally had this in its own category as a "God Tier" weapon. After getting more experienced and coming back to try it out again though, I've downgraded it a bit. The reason is that despite its absurd damage, it actually does have some weaknesses. The main one is that the weapon is too slow to properly combo enemies. What it does instead is interrupt their current attack, which is great against slower moving enemies but not so good against faster opponents (particularly mobbing enemies like rats and dogs). It also leaves you very open if you miss and doesn't benefit from "post-death" blood rallying thanks to its slow attack. All that said, it's the top of this list for a reason and remains a superb weapon overall.

Chikage - My current favorite weapon, it's got lots of speed and solid damage and can be drawn from the sheath for quick bursts of massive damage. I've heard that really pouring the points into Bloodtinge can exaggerate this, but I haven't attempted that build yet (mine was a Quality Skill/Bloodtinge build with between 30-40 in each). It's basically a really solid, dependable weapon in all circumstances, with the only real weakness being enemies with an "instant death radius", since the Chikage doesn't really have any good stand-off attacks. The one-handed Charge attack tries, but the range just ain't there. I've heard it bandied about that the Chikage will be the PvP weapon of choice, overtaking Ludwig's which previously was there.

Rank B

Reiterpallasch - Another of my favorite swords. It's a Rapier, basically, and it has all the ups and downs that traditionally come with that in a Souls title. Its secondary mode gives it a gun and makes it slash from side to side instead of thrust, but the damage is weaker (as you might expect) and against normal enemies this isn't terribly useful as the side-to-side isn't wide enough to reliably sweep a crowd. What it DOES do is allow you to stop a quickly evading enemy from dodging, and I've found it invaluable in PvP. Since the sword is one-handed even with the gun you may think that the gun is pointless. This is decidedly not the case. In fact, for most people it is in fact the best gun in the game. Yes, really. It outshines even the Evelyn with a strong Bloodtinge stat. This is largely due to its base damage, but also due to the fact that it can accomadate 3 gems instead of the Evelyn's one. With 30 Bloodtinge and using the best gems for each weapon that I found on a straight playthrough (Chalice dungeons were not used), the Reiterpallasch outdamaged the Evelyn up until +10, where the Evelyn would finally overtake it. The problem? There's only one Blood Rock in the game.

Kirkhammer - It's a giant Hammer. Whaddaya want? As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it's great at pancaking and also does minor splash damage whic can interrupt attacks. Main issue I had when using it was lack of range and the aforementioned vulnerability on whiffing that came with Ludwig's. It has very good strength scaling and can whomp stuff very satisfyingly. It's just not as good at it as Ludwig's.

Blade(s) of Mercy - These are the definitive pure Dex weapon. Very, very fast, quick dodges, high overall damage...they're just great weapons. The reason they get a B instead of an A is, ironically, the opposite problem that Ludwig's has: The range is too short. It's not a problem on any enemy you can combo and dodging out once you're inside is easy. The hard bit is getting IN, and many tougher enemies have large sweeping attacks that will murder you when you try. Blade of Mercy requires a very good dodger at the helm, and they're also a two-handed weapon so you don't get to riposte enemies either. The one-handed version isn't even worth talking about as a weapon - it does an okay job, but it's obviously a backup weapon while you shoot something before going back to two-handed mode.

Rank C

Hunter's Axe - I was sorely tempted to put this in rank B. It's a solid weapon, and probably the best of the starting weapons. It hits like a truck with very little scaling needed, and it's the first Axe I've actually liked in a Souls game since the Golem Axe in Dark Souls 1. I don't really have a lot bad to say about it, it's a very stable weapon and it does a good job...but there's other, sexier weapons out there with better scaling. The Halberd mode isn't terrifically useful apart from the Charge attack, which is this massive spinny attack that can knock most enemies off their feet and does a ton of damage to boot.

Rifle Spear - Great, dependable spear. Awful gun. Rather than being a Rifle like the name implies, it's actually a shotgun. A crappy shotgun. One-handed mode is pretty good, and it's a great stand-off weapon. Two-handed mode is kind of meh - it doesn't cover enough ground laterally with most of its attacks and doesn't do terrifically more damage either. The main advantage to this weapon is poking one-handed, and the two-handed Charge attack which allows you to run in and spear an enemy. It's about the best Charge attack in the game (and yes, I'm including Ludwig's) as you can charge up from quite a distance and still hit your target. The Charge also has a certain amount of super-armor so you can trade blows with an enemy pretty easily. Just don't try to shoot them.

Saw Cleaver - Don't have much to say about this weapon. I hate the Saw portion of the weapon - it may be high damage due to allowing a large number of attacks, but the range stinks and it doesn't have the flashy moves of the Blade of Mercy. The Cleaver though is pretty decent - it has a nice attack rate, hits a nice swathe, etc. I just can't find a compelling reason to KEEP using it once you have one of the better weapons later in the game.

Rank D

Threaded Cane - I want to like this weapon. I really do. It's stylish, and has a whip that actually feels like you're using a whip (unlike previous Souls titles). However, the damage is terrible, the whip doesn't stagger very well, and it has a relatively slow attack rate that locks you into the animation like Ludwig's does. I want to believe this can be a good weapon outside the very earliest game, but I just can't see it.

Tonitrus - Another weapon that I want to like. When charged up, you can deal crazy damage. But it's clumsy to use, has terrible durability, and has range issues and a slow attack to boot. Even for an Arcane user you're far better off blowing a Bolt paper on a different weapon or just flat out giving the other weapon an Arcane gem.

Rank F

Saw Spear - This one is like the Saw Cleaver, but without the Cleaver part that redeems that weapon. The Spear is actually worse than the damn Saw, being slow to swing, not very long ranged, and having a charge attack where you inexplicably plunge the spear into the ground instead of hitting the enemy with it. No part of this weapon is as good as the Saw Cleaver, and as they're both starting weapons there's pretty much no reason to pick this one.

Stake Driver - This one feels like a failed weapon concept. In theory, it's rather neat. You **** the weapon, then charge up an explosively powerful attack. And the attack is powerful. But...and it's a big BUT....the Charge attack is about the longest in the game, and has ZERO super-armor. You get tickled during the charge-up, and you lose it. I also think you have to reload when that happens, for added insult to injury. The actual basic weapon isn't terrible, moving from either a shortsword style swinging action to a Rapier-like punching attack when loaded. It's just...there's no reason to use it. The basic attacks are done better by other weapons. The Charge attack is unusable except against enemies which sit still long enough for you to fire it, and in those cases you could have charge attacked with a different weapon and gotten a visceral attack for even more damage.

[Rosstin]

Thanks for the analysis, that was a good read.

[Spacewolf]

Spoiler

Show

Where's this Door in the Cathedral Ward I haven't been through that area in awhile so can't remember. I know there might be plenty of places, but I just don't really see what could be filling them beyond more random stuff.

Also since I used the Threaded Cane and the Saw Spear throughout the entire game I'd say they can be useful although I did have the spear permanently set to fire so I could kill anything with a physical resistance so it didn't get a huge amount of use for the most part. But anyway for the cane the Whip is what I always used for crowd clearing you can kill entire hordes of Ghouls or Rats without them getting a shot off at you meanwhile the Cane has what I consider to be one of the best Dodge attacks which came up alot when I was fighting the Aberrant beast in the chalice since it basically allowed me to dodge through all his attacks then kick his ass. Admittedly that might be down to the Cane being the weapon I was most comfortable with at the time rather than it being any functionally better.

[Morty]

So, Scholar of the First Sin is out. I forget what's free and what's only available if you buy it on the PC, though. I think it's the graphics that aren't updated for free?

[Snowbluff]

Ugh, I have to find time to play again. I have to finish that damn Blood Starved Beast. The worst part is that I was going to be able to keep up, but I have classes on the week days and work on the weekends.