Newbie DM, (Sorta) Problematic Player

[TeChameleon]

So, in a brief lapse of sanity, I agreed to DM a Shadowrun game for my regular gaming group. It's going to be... interesting. The group is pretty good overall- we're all friends and whatnot, so no worries there. However, the difficulty I'm having is that one of my players- the group's usual DM, actually- seems to be bound and determined to force me to rewrite the setting. His first goal was that he wanted to nuke Seattle. I flat-out vetoed that one, mostly since I want to be able to use pre-published material for a while (and also since it would make his character dangerously psychotic >.O)

Then he decided that his goal was going to be to carve a out a new empire on the border between the Athabaskan Council and the Algonkian-Manitou Council... and declare fealty to the British Crown -_-;

Unfortunately, when I vetoed this one as well, he got annoyed with me for limiting his freedom as a player, saying that was taboo for DMs. Nothing terribly serious for now, but we haven't sorted this out yet either. Mostly just wondering if the Playground has any ideas, since I'm not entirely sure how to communicate to him that his ideas run entirely counter to the sort of game that I was wanting to run.

[JusticeZero]

What kind of game do you want to run? All those things are very long term goals. I can say "I want to invade Heaven and carve out a personal empire there!" Well, okay. The tools for doing that theoretically exist, but the desire to use those tools is strapped to your 1st level backside. You haven't got any of those tools, and you have no immediate way to get them. So really, it ends up being more of a character quirk than anything else for the first couple years of gaming. Eventually, they might get to the point where they are swinging enough power around to make good on some of it.

[DonEsteban]

<wildguess>
Mmmaybe he just wants to prove a point?!? Have you tried anything like this while he was DMing?
</wildguess>

[TeChameleon]

I'm wanting to start with a more low-key game- typical Shadowrun corporate espionage, day-to-day survival in a kind of crappy world. Empire-building is a little outside that. Problem is, he looks at it and goes 'crappy world, okay, how do I restructure it so that it's not crappy?'

As far as point-proving goes, I don't think so. He doesn't tend to be quite that passive-aggressive.

[Lord Torath]

Well, I'd say, let him try. It gives him a long-term goal to shoot for. Keep in mind Advise him that the established Powers That Be (from megacorps to nation states to secret insect cults) are not going to look too kindly on anyone trying to carve out a new empire. And they have the muscle to back it up. He's going to need billions (or possibly trillions) of nuyen and the support of hundreds of thousands of people if that's what he wants to do. All it takes is one offended Mega Corp deciding to take it personal to squish him like a bug. Isn't there already a group that wants to overthrow all the nations of North America and unite the whole continent under their rule. If they catch whiff of his plans, you can bet they're not going to want the competition. Remind him that even Art Dankwaller, with his billions of nuyen, was only just able to bring down one quasi-AAA megacorp. And that was after years of planning.

Or he can use money from his runs to fund pro-bono legal representation for the poor, donate to soup kitchens, etc. And perform runs as "Social Justice."

It sounds like he wants to make a difference in the world. Could you focus on runs that punish mega corps for misdeeds (polluting rivers and such) and runs that uncover and destroy threats to civilization (infiltrating insect spirits, apocalyptic dooms-day cults, secret blood-magic groups, and hate groups like Alamos 20,000 and Sons of Sauron)?

[zinycor]

The fact that he wants to do something, doesn't mean that he will do those things, he can have any motivation he wants, but he will have to talk to you to get the means needed to work his thing. If wants to nuke a city, that's ok and good, does he have the means to do it? probably not, or not until he has some sort of control over the world ou built to get access to these things.

[LibraryOgre]

I'm on the "Yeah, he can have those as goals, but he's going to have a hard time achieving them" fence. He wants to nuke Seattle? Guess what... lots of folks, even other PCs, aren't going to want that to happen. He's got to develop a relationship with someone who can get him a nuke, which is pretty in the 5/5 or more range for contacts (he needs someone with a LOT of influence who is EXTREMELY loyal to him), and then he's got to have the money.

And the other PCs might find out about what he's doing, and then they're running against him.

He's less likely to get a bunch of people in Seattle mad at him for his other plan... but it's also more work. "I want to take over a chunk of Canada and make it a British protectorate" is pretty much "I want to do something stupid and unlikely." It can be a goal, but it's going to be well beyond his means for a long time to come.

[Dimers]

I'm not entirely sure how to communicate to him that his ideas run entirely counter to the sort of game that I was wanting to run.

Show the party the Same Page Tool with some time set aside for discussion. Make it clear that you're not saying you want all games, or even all Shadowrun games, to be this particular way, just this one that you're running right now.

The discussion could even end up showing both of you you want the same things from the game ...

[Arbane]

However, the difficulty I'm having is that one of my players- the group's usual DM, actually- seems to be bound and determined to force me to rewrite the setting. His first goal was that he wanted to nuke Seattle. I flat-out vetoed that one, mostly since I want to be able to use pre-published material for a while (and also since it would make his character dangerously psychotic >.O)

Then he decided that his goal was going to be to carve a out a new empire on the border between the Athabaskan Council and the Algonkian-Manitou Council... and declare fealty to the British Crown -_-;

You know this guy better than me, but so far it sounds like he just wants to be LOLrandom. If so, my recommendation is to run a scratch session. When (not 'if') his character gets everyone killed in a blaze of dumbassery, reset the campaign to the start, WITHOUT his character.

[TeChameleon]

Show the party the Same Page Tool with some time set aside for discussion. Make it clear that you're not saying you want all games, or even all Shadowrun games, to be this particular way, just this one that you're running right now.

The discussion could even end up showing both of you you want the same things from the game ...

Bookmarked, thank you.

And it's not LOLrandumb, it's just... him being him >.O

Honestly, I'm mostly worried that it'll end up hijacking the plot because I have to spend so much bloody time figuring out the ramifications of what he's doing. Everyone is new to Shadowrun, although my semi-problem has run a few test sessions with me, so I'm... probably overthinking things, honestly >.>

Gah.

Nervous newbie DM -_-;

[Mr Beer]

Agree with the notion that we don't so much need to veto absurd ideas as allow the natural problems to occur organically.

I would definitely allow a Shadowrun player to try to nuke a city. Good luck, because it's not like anyone is just handing out nukes to random street scum. Actually could make a pretty good campaign if the rest of the party wants to jump on board this train to disaster land...they've got a lot of exciting heists ahead of them to make this happen and the sky's the limit on who is going to turn up to spoil their plans.

[Airk]

Mark me down on the "Well, he can say that's his 'goal' if he wants, but it's about as likely as me claiming a chunk of Massachusetts for Australia in real life." camp. I mean, how does he intend, as some guy with a couple of guns and some cyberware, to accomplish any of that? Now if you think he's going to hijack the game, it might be time for the old chat about "I expect the party to work together, so get your damn goals in alignment" chat, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the character having ambitions, as long as he understands they're pretty unlikely.