Chilly Gish

[Afgncaap5]

I'm trying to combine a few ideas into a character, but I'm not sure what the most efficient way is to do it. The basic concept is an elvish necromancer who specialized in the concept of the "cold grip of death" rather than just death itself (his enemy in the old lands was a rival necromancer who specialized in being burned to death.) A war with a rival elf nation has sent him on the run, as the other elves didn't approve of his nation's willingness to summon/capture ghosts of the deceased to power their magic. As an advocate of his nation's ghostly magic, he fought as a warrior.

The game mechanic things I've found related to that huge mess of backstory include Wizard/necromancer (obviously), abjurant champion, frost mage, and maybe (maybe) Fighter, Knight Phantom (if the GM ignores the Eberron-specific location requirement and race assumption) and the Pathfinder version of Eldritch Knight (if the GM would allow it.) I've also looked at the suggestions for cold-themed necromancers that I've found on the Internet (I was gleeful to see that those existed) and the Divine Wizard ACF that would let him rebuke cold creatures as a potentially fun thematic thing.

None of that's necessary, of course, a lot of it's just impractical to work with in conjunction with all the others. And there's probably a lot of stuff I'm unfamiliar with. Ultimately I'm just looking to see what would be the most efficient combination of things along these lines. Any ideas on how to go with this ghostly, frost-themed elvish gish?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Abjurant Champion is extremely lackluster without (Greater) Luminous Armor, since it doesn't actually benefit Mage Armor since it's not an Abjuration spell. I'd go with a divine caster for this, Cleric or Archivist with DMM: Persistent Ice Axe, possibly combined with Fell Drain and/or Fell Frighten and even TWF. I say Archivist because it gets access to all the best cold spells from the Cleric, Druid, and various domain lists (Ice Slick, Sleet Storm, (Extended) Creeping Cold, Icelance, Ice Axe, etc.) but can still use all the necromancy spells from the Cleric list and from every domain list. Go something like (Cloistered) Cleric 1/ Archivist 11/ PrCs 8, with the Magic domain from Cleric so you can use wands of useful Wizard spells like Command Undead. Get Knowledge Devotion instead of the Knowledge domain from Cloistered Cleric, or use normal Cleric for armor and shield proficiencies if you want to use any of those.

[Red Fel]

I'd like to point out that this is a great opportunity to play with Tomb-Tainted Soul and Lord of the Uttercold.

The former requires nongood alignment (but neutral is okay), and causes you to be healed by negative energy.

The latter requires Energy Substitution, and allows you to split the damage of any [Cold] spell you cast between Cold damage and negative energy. Meaning that even if you get hit by your own spells, you heal as much as you're hurt. Combine that with a source of Cold resistance, and your spells give you a net heal.

After that, just gish with Cold spells, and enjoy as even creatures with Cold resistance - or immunity - are harmed by them. Great thing about Lord of the Uttercold is that it uses the spell's existing level, so there's no reason (unless you're facing Undead) not to use it all the time.

Further, thanks to Energy Substitution, any spell with an energy descriptor ([Acid], [Electricity], [Fire]) can be a [Cold] spell at your discretion. Which means it gets split between Cold and negative energy.

[Afgncaap5]

Abjurant Champion is extremely lackluster without (Greater) Luminous Armor, since it doesn't actually benefit Mage Armor since it's not an Abjuration spell. I'd go with a divine caster for this, Cleric or Archivist with DMM: Persistent Ice Axe, possibly combined with Fell Drain and/or Fell Frighten and even TWF. I say Archivist because it gets access to all the best cold spells from the Cleric, Druid, and various domain lists (Ice Slick, Sleet Storm, (Extended) Creeping Cold, Icelance, Ice Axe, etc.) but can still use all the necromancy spells from the Cleric list and from every domain list. Go something like (Cloistered) Cleric 1/ Archivist 11/ PrCs 8, with the Magic domain from Cleric so you can use wands of useful Wizard spells like Command Undead. Get Knowledge Devotion instead of the Knowledge domain from Cloistered Cleric, or use normal Cleric for armor and shield proficiencies if you want to use any of those.

Thanks, though divine casting is pretty much off the table for the character as a primary method of spellcasting (plus it's a little harder to keep the character concept in this particular campaign setting if I don't stick to wizardry.) The character's backstory is more or less locked in, and I'd have to do some serious rebranding to go archivist or cleric.

Fortunately, though, I'm fine with being suboptimal with this character. My main concern here is for the story concept.

I'd like to point out that this is a great opportunity to play with Tomb-Tainted Soul and Lord of the Uttercold.

The former requires nongood alignment (but neutral is okay), and causes you to be healed by negative energy.

The latter requires Energy Substitution, and allows you to split the damage of any [Cold] spell you cast between Cold damage and negative energy. Meaning that even if you get hit by your own spells, you heal as much as you're hurt. Combine that with a source of Cold resistance, and your spells give you a net heal.

After that, just gish with Cold spells, and enjoy as even creatures with Cold resistance - or immunity - are harmed by them. Great thing about Lord of the Uttercold is that it uses the spell's existing level, so there's no reason (unless you're facing Undead) not to use it all the time.

Further, thanks to Energy Substitution, any spell with an energy descriptor ([Acid], [Electricity], [Fire]) can be a [Cold] spell at your discretion. Which means it gets split between Cold and negative energy.

I'd been thinking about that, but I wasn't sure what the best route would be to work in the Cold magic and tomb taintedness with the martial-theming. Cold magic seems to take a lot in terms of feat investment, if memory serves.

[AMFV]

Abjurant Champion is extremely lackluster without (Greater) Luminous Armor, since it doesn't actually benefit Mage Armor since it's not an Abjuration spell. I'd go with a divine caster for this, Cleric or Archivist with DMM: Persistent Ice Axe, possibly combined with Fell Drain and/or Fell Frighten and even TWF. I say Archivist because it gets access to all the best cold spells from the Cleric, Druid, and various domain lists (Ice Slick, Sleet Storm, (Extended) Creeping Cold, Icelance, Ice Axe, etc.) but can still use all the necromancy spells from the Cleric list and from every domain list. Go something like (Cloistered) Cleric 1/ Archivist 11/ PrCs 8, with the Magic domain from Cleric so you can use wands of useful Wizard spells like Command Undead. Get Knowledge Devotion instead of the Knowledge domain from Cloistered Cleric, or use normal Cleric for armor and shield proficiencies if you want to use any of those.

Shield. Also it's a really amazing chassis without losing any caster levels.

[Afgncaap5]

Shield. Also it's a really amazing chassis without losing any caster levels.

The other thing I like about it is the fact that it doesn't require proficiency with *all* martial weapons. Being an elf alone seems to meet the weaponry requirements.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Thanks, though divine casting is pretty much off the table for the character as a primary method of spellcasting (plus it's a little harder to keep the character concept in this particular campaign setting if I don't stick to wizardry.) The character's backstory is more or less locked in, and I'd have to do some serious rebranding to go archivist or cleric.

Fortunately, though, I'm fine with being suboptimal with this character. My main concern here is for the story concept.

An Archivist prepares spells from a spellbook just like a Wizard does, but they're divine instead of arcane.

The typical entry into Abjurant Champion would be either Fighter 2/ Wizard 4/ Spellsword 1, or Human (or Elf) Paragon 1/ Fighter 1/ Wizard 2/ Human or Elf Paragon 2/ Spellsword 1. In either case you should probably use the Martial Wizard variant from UA to get a Fighter bonus feat instead of Scribe Scroll. With that start into Abjurant Champion 5 and either Eldritch Knight or Knight Phantom, you can afford to lose two more points of BAB and still get a +16 by 20th level, so Incantatrix 4 or similar is a superb choice. Incantatrix can add Persistent Spell to your buffs by making a Spellcraft check, so Persistent Fell Drain/Frighten Death Armor and Fire Shield (cold version) would be extremely fitting. You can also persist buffs like Wraithstrike, Expeditious Retreat, Swift Fly, Blink, Greater Invisibility, Draconic Polymorph, etc.

[AMFV]

An Archivist prepares spells from a spellbook just like a Wizard does, but they're divine instead of arcane.

The typical entry into Abjurant Champion would be either Fighter 2/ Wizard 4/ Spellsword 1, or Human (or Elf) Paragon 1/ Fighter 1/ Wizard 2/ Human or Elf Paragon 2/ Spellsword 1. In either case you should probably use the Martial Wizard variant from UA to get a Fighter bonus feat instead of Scribe Scroll. With that start into Abjurant Champion 5 and either Eldritch Knight or Knight Phantom, you can afford to lose two more points of BAB and still get a +16 by 20th level, so Incantatrix 4 or similar is a superb choice. Incantatrix can add Persistent Spell to your buffs by making a Spellcraft check, so Persistent Fell Drain/Frighten Death Armor and Fire Shield (cold version) would be extremely fitting. You can also persist buffs like Wraithstrike, Expeditious Retreat, Swift Fly, Blink, Greater Invisibility, Draconic Polymorph, etc.

Also I was going to add this earlier, but the bonus to AC isn't the best part of Abjurant Champion, it's the quickening all Abjuration Spells of fifth level or lower, including some gems like Dispel, and many that don't fall under Abjurant stuff. Also all Abjurations are extended (for free). That's pretty amazing for an entire school of magic. Those are worth the class even for straight wizards, who can qualify without losing almost anything, since Elves qualify by default.

Edit: Auto-Quicken to 3rd Level rather, I misremembered that, still a very sweet ability.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Also I was going to add this earlier, but the bonus to AC isn't the best part of Abjurant Champion, it's the quickening all Abjuration Spells of fifth level or lower, including some gems like Dispel, and many that don't fall under Abjurant stuff. Also all Abjurations are extended (for free). That's pretty amazing for an entire school of magic. Those are worth the class even for straight wizards, who can qualify without losing almost anything, since Elves qualify by default.

You get to quicken 3rd level abjurations, not 5th, it's half your class level rounded up. The class features are indeed nice, and it's still a staple of any arcane gish build, but there are such huge mechanical advantages to being good-aligned as an arcane gish that it's almost foolish to not go that route. Additionally, divine casters are traditionally better than arcane casters at necromancy, plus the divine lists are just overwhelmingly better at cold effects in general. Archivist just seems like the most obvious choice for this, and it has almost the exact same flavor as a wizard anyway.

[PraxisVetli]

See if your DM will let fly a cold version of Swordsages Desert Wind. between Shadow Hand and Blizzard Wind, melee is covered.
That with any major caster (even a warmage) could make a fine Jade Phoenix Mage.

[AMFV]

You get to quicken 3rd level abjurations, not 5th, it's half your class level rounded up. The class features are indeed nice, and it's still a staple of any arcane gish build, but there are such huge mechanical advantages to being good-aligned as an arcane gish that it's almost foolish to not go that route. Additionally, divine casters are traditionally better than arcane casters at necromancy, plus the divine lists are just overwhelmingly better at cold effects in general. Archivist just seems like the most obvious choice for this, and it has almost the exact same flavor as a wizard anyway.

True, I caught myself and corrected.

Hmmm, this is a tough build. Since most of the Cold stuff doesn't synergize well with gishing at all. Sha'ir might be a good bet, it gets Water and Air domains and those have a few cold effects, although domain spells are a pain for them. If he's dying on going Arcane that is.

Actually Wind Walker from the Faerun Religion book seems almost exactly perfect for this, full BAB, gets a ton of cold resistance stuff and a few flying things, it's thematically appropriate.

[Afgncaap5]

That may be worth checking out, then. I've not read that book yet.

And, yeah, it's a tough build to get *everything* with. I made my peace with giving up a lot of the mechanics-side of it some time ago. (I suppose I could try to get permission to homebrew a prestige class, but seems crazy.)

[Zombulian]

I'd like to point out that this is a great opportunity to play with Tomb-Tainted Soul and Lord of the Uttercold.

The former requires nongood alignment (but neutral is okay), and causes you to be healed by negative energy.

The latter requires Energy Substitution, and allows you to split the damage of any [Cold] spell you cast between Cold damage and negative energy. Meaning that even if you get hit by your own spells, you heal as much as you're hurt. Combine that with a source of Cold resistance, and your spells give you a net heal.

After that, just gish with Cold spells, and enjoy as even creatures with Cold resistance - or immunity - are harmed by them. Great thing about Lord of the Uttercold is that it uses the spell's existing level, so there's no reason (unless you're facing Undead) not to use it all the time.

Further, thanks to Energy Substitution, any spell with an energy descriptor ([Acid], [Electricity], [Fire]) can be a [Cold] spell at your discretion. Which means it gets split between Cold and negative energy.

Don't forget Piercing Cold so that your Cold spells effect everything.

[Afgncaap5]

Okay, I think I've about figured out a basic starting progression with all this. I'm still waiting for word from my DM because he's said that he'll be tweaking the requirements for Knight Phantom a bit, due to the different campaign setting, the character's martial history, and as a kind of synergy with Abjurant Champion (plus the leaders of the Knight Phantoms have, as their example character, someone who doesn't seem to meet the requirements as written.) So, it's possible that the level of Fighter may wind up being replaced by something else, though I'm not sure what yet.

1-Wizard: Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Necromancy)
2-Wizard
3-Wizard: Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
4-Wizard
5-Wizard: Still Spell
6-Fighter: (Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, or Weapon Focus?), Cold Focus
7-Knight Phantom
8-Knight Phantom
9-Abjurant Champion: Energy Substitution (Cold)
10-Abjurant Champion

With the rest of the levels finishing out Knight Phantom, possibly with Abjurant Champion helping out here and there. I don't see this game getting to level 20.

I'm sure there's loads of room for improvement with this build, but are there any basic places you can see where it'd be a good idea to change some approach or play differently within this same basic theme?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

May I offer a different suggestion? Use the King of Combust plus energy substitution cold. " THIS HAND OF JUST MINE BURNS CHILLS WITH AN AWESOME POWER!"

[Afgncaap5]

May I offer a different suggestion? Use the King of Combust plus energy substitution cold. " THIS HAND OF JUST MINE BURNS CHILLS WITH AN AWESOME POWER!"

Are you talking about the Combust spell from Lords of Darkness (or, looking closer, Spell Compendium)? I think I could do that with this build pretty easily.