How Vaarsuvius may deal with Xykon in the next fight.

[Kish]

Yes, theoretically Vaarsuvius could kill Xykon by any form of, "Rich Burlew decides to have the cosmos act as though it loves Vaarsuvius and hates Xykon."

...But s/he's not going to. Presumably you know s/he's not going to. So I do not in the least understand the point of this.

[Atomburster]

Yes, theoretically Vaarsuvius could kill Xykon by any form of, "Rich Burlew decides to have the cosmos act as though it loves Vaarsuvius and hates Xykon."

...But s/he's not going to. Presumably you know s/he's not going to. So I do not in the least understand the point of this.

That method was the simplest way a low-level wizard can kill a higher-leveled one. It's technically possible, but not going to happen.

Then, I browsed through the strips, and it occured to me that a 17-th level V (up from 16) can also handle Xykon like this:

-pre battle-
Resist Energy(Electricity), Protection from Energy(Fire) Mind Blank, Protection from Spells, Overland Flight.

Turn -1
True Striking

Turn 0 (Surprise Round)
Disintegrate

Turn 1
Another random encounter? Maximized Meteor Swarm.
Disjunction. Not such a random one, lich. Your villainy ends now.
(V Disjoins 2/4 Meteors, makes the reflex save against other 2, taking null damage. )

Turn 2
(Xykon falls)
Sunburst.
Overland Flight
(Xykon stops falling)

Turn 3
Ah yes, the elf wizard that tried for my phylactery. I believe we both know how that duel ended? Superb Disp-
Gag. I have learned much since then. The value of speech, for instance. The power of readied actions, for another.

Turn 4
Bugby's Crushing Hand. And the value of movement. This fight is over.

As a bonus, it mirrors their original fight, now with V fighting with much more focus on Xykon's weaknesses. Of course, chances are that Xykon continues it by revealing he has the silent spell feat..

[orrion]

I'm not sure why you keep having V able to interrupt Xykon's rounds like that. There's an established reason why Roy might be able to do that, but no reason why V would be able to repeatedly and successfully. He wasn't able to do it at all during his previous fight with Xykon (and more recently, Laurin, though psionics might be different), and the only time Xykon interrupted V's spell was by smashing a gigantic rock into him.

Xykon would likely have Overland Flight already cast.

Don't see why Xykon would be casting Superb Dispelling there. He used it previously because he knew there was something worth dispelling, and a mind-affecting spell (Mind Fog was cast by Tsukiko) to plunge V into. Thus far in that fight you haven't displayed V with anything worth using an epic dispel on. Overland Flight certainly doesn't seem worthy, and there's no Mind Fog lying around. The Splices were based on V's willpower, so it made sense to try and subject him to spells that hurt that. That whole Surperb Dispelling strategy was designed to get rid of the Splices. There would be no evidence of Splices this time, ergo no reason for Xykon to employ the same strategy.

Why in the heck would V waste a Disjunction to counter a Meteor Swarm with both Resist Energy - by the way, why isn't this Protection From Energy? - and Protection From Spells active?

What's Gag? You mean Silence? That would hurt V as well.

[Atomburster]

I'm not sure why you keep having V able to interrupt Xykon's rounds like that. There's an established reason why Roy might be able to do that, but no reason why V would be able to repeatedly and successfully. He wasn't able to do it at all during his previous fight with Xykon (and more recently, Laurin, though psionics might be different), and the only time Xykon interrupted V's spell was by smashing a gigantic rock into him.

This time, I only have V successfully interrupting X's spells once.

Xykon would likely have Overland Flight already cast.

Yes, he does.

Don't see why Xykon would be casting Superb Dispelling there. He used it previously because he knew there was something worth dispelling, and a mind-affecting spell (Mind Fog was cast by Tsukiko) to plunge V into. Thus far in that fight you haven't displayed V with anything worth using an epic dispel on. Overland Flight certainly doesn't seem worthy, and there's no Mind Fog lying around. The Splices were based on V's willpower, so it made sense to try and subject him to spells that hurt that. That whole Surperb Dispelling strategy was designed to get rid of the Splices. There would be no evidence of Splices this time, ergo no reason for Xykon to employ the same strategy.

You can replace superb dispelling with any other spell, but it just seemed the most appropriate.

Why in the heck would V waste a Disjunction to counter a Meteor Swarm with both Resist Energy - by the way, why isn't this Protection From Energy? - and Protection From Spells active?

OK, amending resist energy to protection from energy. Although V would probably use both, to cover X's electricity spells as well.

Disjunction - Xykon probably has a whole ton of buffs on himself, not to mention a bunch of magical items and a contingency that could provide some serious problems for V.

Protection from spells - V has to cover Redcloak too. I mean, what if he went up to her and used Implosion?

What's Gag? You mean Silence? That would hurt V as well.

Nope. It's this. A far better spell than silence, in my opinion.

[Kish]

Nope. It's this. A far better spell than silence, in my opinion.

You didn't mention the part about this version of Vaarsuvius also being an archfiend who currently has contracted control over Xykon's soul previously.

[Atomburster]

You didn't mention the part about this version of Vaarsuvius also being an archfiend who currently has contracted control over Xykon's soul previously.

It's a spell that places a magical, removable block on the mouth. How hard can it be to research the spell?

[Kish]

It's a spell that places a magical, removable block on the mouth.

Where on earth do you get that idea? Why don't you propose Vaarsuvius research the spell that would let her/him, without saying anything at all, cause Xykon's soul to leave his body and sink into one of the Lower Planes? Since apparently everything one of the archfiends can do to Vaarsuvius is somehow established as a spell, and further as a nonepic spell.

[Atomburster]

Where on earth do you get that idea? Why don't you propose Vaarsuvius research the spell that would let her/him, without saying anything at all, cause Xykon's soul to leave his body and sink into one of the Lower Planes? Since apparently everything one of the archfiends can do to Vaarsuvius is somehow established as a spell, and further as a nonepic spell.

Dragging V down into the lower planes is something they did by divine fiat and the binding agreement with V.

Looking in terms of power levels, if a character wanted a spell that created a crude object on someone's mouth, it would practically be a cantrip, or even a mere 1st-level spell. Not something you need to cast limited wish for. Of course, there's always Animate rope, but that seems a tad inconvenient.

[137beth]

Where on earth do you get that idea? Why don't you propose Vaarsuvius research the spell that would let her/him, without saying anything at all, cause Xykon's soul to leave his body and sink into one of the Lower Planes? Since apparently everything one of the archfiends can do to Vaarsuvius is somehow established as a spell, and further as a nonepic spell.

Plot gag:
Level: Archfiend 0
Components: None
Casting Time: One free action
Range: Caster's home (demi-)plane
Target: One creature, See text
Duration: 1 plot point/level (D)
This spell can only be cast by an archfiend who has collected a debt on the target at a plot-appropriate time. Upon casting, a gag immediately covers the target's mouth. This gag cannot be removed except when the plot demands it.
The spell automatically ends if the target leaves the spell's range.

[zimmerwald1915]

Is there a point to any of this? We will not be seeing another spell-duel between Vaarsuvius and Xykon, especially one where they are the only characters exchanging dialogue and actions over several rounds. At most, they might share two more lines of dialogue in the entire rest of the strip.

[Atomburster]

Is there a point to any of this? We will not be seeing another spell-duel between Vaarsuvius and Xykon.

V meets Xykon all the way up in the air, while Durkon is fighting RC, and the rest of Oots are stuck facing the many, many monsters that Xykon turned into undead. Also, V had a spellduel with Zzdtri twice.

Especially one where they are the only characters exchanging dialogue and actions over several rounds. At most, they might share two more lines of dialogue in the entire rest of the strip.

Isn't that a tad of an exaggeration? V had quite a bit conversation whenever she/he fought other spell-casters.

As it is, she/he seems to have fought every antagonist spellcaster shown, with the exception of Pompey(underleveled), Hilgya(Divine Spellcaster), Tsukiko(Mystic Theurge) and Malack(Vampire Divine spellcaster).
...

Spoiler: Random Guessing

Show

Shown so far,
There have been...
4 Clerics.
5 High-leveled/Epic Wizards. (6 if you count Miron)
2 Druids.
4 Sorcerers. (5 if you count Miron)
4 Montrous Characters. (2 Vamps, 1 Lich, 1 MitD)
1 Psion.
Therefore, Miron must be a sorcerer!
And we're missing 2 druids in the story.(1 Chaotic Neutral, 1 Lawful Neutral)

[zimmerwald1915]

V meets Xykon all the way up in the air, while Durkon is fighting RC, and the rest of Oots are stuck facing the many, many monsters that Xykon turned into undead.

This may be how a vast number of D&D end-boss encounters look. If it turns out that the ending of The Order of the Stick looks like that, I'll be happy to buy you a printed copy of the last book.

Also, V had a spellduel with Zzdtri twice.

***

Isn't that a tad of an exaggeration? V had quite a bit conversation whenever she/he fought other spell-casters.

Correction: Vaarsuvius had quite a bit of conversation when she engaged in one-on-one spell duels, or near-approximations, with other spellcasters. As I've already stated, that is not how any future encounter with Xykon is going to look.

As it is, she/he seems to have fought every antagonist spellcaster shown, with the exception of Pompey(underleveled), Hilgya(Divine Spellcaster), Tsukiko(Mystic Theurge) and Malack(Vampire Divine spellcaster)

Pretty honking big exceptions, yes? I'm also quite sure that list is incomplete.

[Atomburster]

This may be how a vast number of D&D end-boss encounters look. If it turns out that the ending of The Order of the Stick looks like that, I'll be happy to buy you a printed copy of the last book.

I could just be that V is stopping Xykon from casting the arcane half of "Control Snarl". Durkon then decides that it's an appropriate time to betray the party, and ends up fighting Belkar, who had finally managed to boost his will saves to the point where he can't just be dominated. Elan is singing for the party, while Haley is out of the picture, and Roy is busy with a Summon Monster IX. The Paladins are likely stuck with RC and his other summons.

Correction: Vaarsuvius had quite a bit of conversation when she engaged in one-on-one spell duels, or near-approximations, with other spellcasters. As I've already stated, that is not how any future encounter with Xykon is going to look.

Most of V's battle with other spellcasters are 1 on 1. Unless I missed/forgot some notable battles in the strip, which is entirely possible. Even her battle with Samantha was a 1-on-1 for most of it.

Pretty honking big exceptions, yes? I'm also quite sure that list is incomplete.

I prefer to summarize it as this: With the exception of Pompey, V has fought every antagonistic spellcaster that has no levels in cleric.

EDIT: V can technically be said to have fought both RC and Tsukiko as well during the soulsplice arc, which only leave Pompey, Malack, and Hilgya as characters she has failed to fight. One could technically argue that Malack fought V with Blade Barrier, but I've decided to exclude him.

[ReaderAt2046]

I'd like to bring in a slightly new angle on this issue. One of the big themes of the Order Of The Scribble story was that the Scribblers failed to guard their Gates principally because they failed to work together. For example, if Lirian had three or four Sapphire Guard paladins stationed at her gate to help her guard it, they would probably have at least ensured that RC and Xykon were kept in separate cells, which would have prevented the entire lichification thing. Better yet, they might have taken RC and Xykon back to Azure City for trial and execution on charges of trying to destroy the universe, which would have ended the plot before it could even begin. Or even if they couldn't stop Lirian from blowing the Gate, the paladins could have at least told everyone else exactly what they were facing.
Or if Dorukan had given the others some kind of "panic button" rune for summoning him in emergencies, X and R might have had to fight not one but two epic casters at Lirian's Gate, which very well might have turned the tide.
Similarly, if Dorukan had been willing to contact Azure City for aid, he could have caught Xykon between himself (an epic-level wizard who (unlike in canon) could have cherry-picked the perfect spell selection and prepped in advance) and an army of paladins. Bam!

The point I'm trying to make is that it's made clear that the Scribblers failed primarily because they split up and guarded their gates on their own. To have the OOTS win without each member being somehow involved would completely undermine that lesson.

In addition, there are a lot of ways V can contribute. A few picked off the top of my head.

1. Focus on pounding Redcloak. Unlike Xykon, Redcloak isn't automatically immune to most of V's damage spells. Furthermore, he almost certainly hasn't got Evasion, so Fireball, Cone of Cold, Lightning Bolt, etc will still deal a fair amount of damage even if he makes his saves. And if RC is busy healing himself, he isn't healing Xykon or casting attack spells of his own.

2. Prepare Bugsby's Grasping Hand in several of his spell slots. It can hold Xykon in place for Roy to whale on him and forces him to use still spells, which use a full-round action and cost a higher-level slot. The only spell Xykon has that we know can break it in one round is Still Meteor Swarm, a 10th-level spell.

3. Filling his lowest-level spell slots with Magic Missile. It doesn't deal a lot of damage, but it's force damage (which ignores Xykon's DR and immunities) and it auto-hits. At V's level, that's an average of 17 damage a round automatically, which is something.

4. Repeatedly taking Xykon or Redcloak out of the fight with Forcecage/Wall of Force while everyone whales on the other one.

[orrion]

I'd like to bring in a slightly new angle on this issue. One of the big themes of the Order Of The Scribble story was that the Scribblers failed to guard their Gates principally because they failed to work together. For example, if Lirian had three or four Sapphire Guard paladins stationed at her gate to help her guard it, they would probably have at least ensured that RC and Xykon were kept in separate cells, which would have prevented the entire lichification thing. Better yet, they might have taken RC and Xykon back to Azure City for trial and execution on charges of trying to destroy the universe, which would have ended the plot before it could even begin. Or even if they couldn't stop Lirian from blowing the Gate, the paladins could have at least told everyone else exactly what they were facing.

Lirian failed principally because she was compassionate and didn't separate Redcloak and Xykon for some reason and left them alone for 4 months.

Technically, Dorukan didn't fail. Xykon killed him, but he was still unable to access his Gate. Dorukan arguably had the best defenses of any of the Gates.

Soon didn't fail either - he actually won outright.

I suppose Girard failed, but that's less because he didn't work with anyone else and more because Familicide wasn't something anyone could have reasonably planned for. Of course, Xykon probably would have blasted right through them anyway.. and that would have been the first Gate where Team Evil had an outright win going in.

So far we don't know what's happening at the last Gate.

I agree that them talking to each other once in a while would have had benefits. If nothing else they'd have known what they were facing and further planned for it and/or been able to hit them with unstoppable force.

And probably the biggest benefit of Lirian having Paladins would have been recognition of the Crimson Mantle.

To have the OOTS win without each member being somehow involved would completely undermine that lesson.

Yes, the entire Order needs to be a part of the victory.

In addition, there are a lot of ways V can contribute. A few picked off the top of my head.

1. Focus on pounding Redcloak. Unlike Xykon, Redcloak isn't automatically immune to most of V's damage spells. Furthermore, he almost certainly hasn't got Evasion, so Fireball, Cone of Cold, Lightning Bolt, etc will still deal a fair amount of damage even if he makes his saves. And if RC is busy healing himself, he isn't healing Xykon or casting attack spells of his own.

Perhaps. V is arguably better off hitting Redcloak, but they already seem to have worked out a strategy involving neutralizing Xykon first by ganging up on him (see fight with Miron), and V was the one to suggest it at that point. He may have joined the pile on Miron simply because he was unlikely to survive more than a full round of Order attacks, though, being a squishy Wizard type likely without Xykon's immunities.

2. Prepare Bugsby's Grasping Hand in several of his spell slots. It can hold Xykon in place for Roy to whale on him and forces him to use still spells, which use a full-round action and cost a higher-level slot. The only spell Xykon has that we know can break it in one round is Still Meteor Swarm, a 10th-level spell.

Grasping Hand and the like are subject to Dispel Magic, a 3rd level spell, and Still MS is not exactly a waste of a slot given the 40 foot explosion radius.

3. Filling his lowest-level spell slots with Magic Missile. It doesn't deal a lot of damage, but it's force damage (which ignores Xykon's DR and immunities) and it auto-hits. At V's level, that's an average of 17 damage a round automatically, which is something.

I'd have to think V was better off buffing or using something defensive than that, but sure, why not.

4. Repeatedly taking Xykon or Redcloak out of the fight with Forcecage/Wall of Force while everyone whales on the other one.

Don't forget Resilient Sphere!

[137beth]

Most of V's battle with other spellcasters are 1 on 1. Unless I missed/forgot some notable battles in the strip, which is entirely possible. Even her battle with Samantha was a 1-on-1 for most of it.

Well, you missed the first fight with Xykon in DCF.

[Atomburster]

Well, you missed the first fight with Xykon in DCF.

A little iffy about it, seeing as V never got to cast any spells on Xykon, nor did Xykon cast any on her, unless we count the undead creatures..

[zimmerwald1915]

Yes, the entire Order needs to be a part of the victory.

"Being a part of the victory" can mean a number of things. One of the things it does not mean is "being so far separated from the other Order members that one can trade actions and dialogue with Xykon without being interrupted." Both Roy and Vaarsuvius have already tried that, so seeing it again would be a rehash.

[ReaderAt2046]

"Being a part of the victory" can mean a number of things. One of the things it does not mean is "being so far separated from the other Order members that one can trade actions and dialogue with Xykon without being interrupted." Both Roy and Vaarsuvius have already tried that, so seeing it again would be a rehash.

I concur. Everyone should be involved.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I concur. Everyone should be involved.

Yeah, I think it would be a little disappointing to not have the entire Order function together facing down Team Evil.

[CaDzilla]

Don't forget to factor in the rest of the order. He has to use most of his spells in conjuction. Also Mitd is with team evil

[Keltest]

Don't forget to factor in the rest of the order. He has to use most of his spells in conjuction. Also Mitd is with team evil

Mitd may or may not be by the time we reach the final battle. I suspect that its side will be announced shortly before its reveal.

[137beth]

Mitd may or may not be by the time we reach the final battle. I suspect that its side will be announced shortly before its reveal.

I suspect it's side will be influenced by it being angry at Xykon about a certain spell he cast in SoD.

Spoiler

Show

If the Geas triggers and the MitD eats Redcloak, that could be the final signal to the MitD that Xykon really doesn't care about him.

[Rodin]

Redcloak also may or may not be with Xykon by the final battle. Redcloak isn't working towards the same goal as Xykon. Xykon is suspicious of this, and Redcloak knows that Xykon is suspicious, and Xykon knows that Redcloak knows. I would not be surprised at all by a Redcloak/Xykon confrontation preceding the main battle.

If it does come to that, Xykon has a massive narrative advantage as the main villain, though Redcloak does have the advantage of having a much more fleshed out plan than Xykon's generic "rule the world" plot.

Then of course, there's the outside candidate of the Snarl doing in the pair of them before the Order even arrives. I don't consider that likely, however.

[SaintRidley]

It's a spell that places a magical, removable block on the mouth. How hard can it be to research the spell?

You assume it's a spell and not simply part and parcel of the IFCC's abilities within their domains. They may well simply be able to alter reality to suit their whims when in their domains.

[Keltest]

You assume it's a spell and not simply part and parcel of the IFCC's abilities within their domains. They may well simply be able to alter reality to suit their whims when in their domains.

and if that's not the case, it is almost certainly a side benefit (for them) of the way the contract was phrased, just like how they got Blackwing's soul too.

[zimmerwald1915]

You assume it's a spell and not simply part and parcel of the IFCC's abilities within their domains. They may well simply be able to alter reality to suit their whims when in their domains.

They were in Lee's domain at the time. The Director who placed the gag was Nero. That doesn't necessarily mean anything. Lee might have granted Nero and Cedric some of his own authority within Hell, and vice versa. But Kish's and Keltest's theory that the contract grants all the Directors great and equal power over V's soul while it's in any of their domains seems better to me.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

They were in Lee's domain at the time. The Director who placed the gag was Nero. That doesn't necessarily mean anything. Lee might have granted Nero and Cedric some of his own authority within Hell, and vice versa. But Kish's and Keltest's theory that the contract grants all the Directors great and equal power over V's soul while it's in any of their domains seems better to me.

Also, I think of the directors had the kind of power of their domains that allowed them to control them in hat way, they wouldn't have been nearly as upset about or proud of the blood plasma TV.

[Keltest]

Also, I think of the directors had the kind of power of their domains that allowed them to control them in hat way, they wouldn't have been nearly as upset about or proud of the blood plasma TV.

On the other hand, maybe their domains require them to actually know how something works before it can emulate it. Lee just happens to have read some blueprints for a blood plasma TV once.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

On the other hand, maybe their domains require them to actually know how something works before it can emulate it. Lee just happens to have read some blueprints for a blood plasma TV once.

I suppose that's possible. However, cleaning up the glass should have been a breeze for them, not something they force Sabine to do.