OOTS #960 - The Discussion Thread

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I am pretty sure that belkar has become neutral quite a while ago

I very much doubt that. Even if you had said "recently" I would still disagree.

A nice little bit about this strip. People have, rightly, pointed out V's lovely sarcastic 'what an unprecedented development' jab. What I haven't seen commented on was Belkar saying in response, more or less, "fair point". If grumpily.

A small attention to detail, but one I appreciated.

Huh, didn't even notice that. That is a nice detail.

[ManicOppressive]

You live an aesthetically blessed life.

Thanks, I needed a signature.

[pendell]

Hypothetical explanation: good-aligned people are more likely to lend the benefit of the doubt, in charity, because they think of other people as innately good. Meanwhile, evil-aligned people think that everyone's really just a scumbag with varying amounts of facade.

You see a reflection of yourself in others.

I think it has more to do with life experience than alignment per se.

Consider : Haley is untrusting -- or at least she started that way -- because she grew up in an environment where telling the truth was a death sentence. But this doesn't stop her from doing right by people, or sacrificing her own diamond for the sake of someone else. That's why she's chaotic good.

Elan is -- or at least he started this way -- totally trusting, a naive child. He did NOT grow up in Greysky city. He grew up as the son of a cheerful, outgoing woman from whom being open, polite, and friendly to everyone was an asset. So Elan has very little in the way of deceit in his body.

Roy, ironically, is a bit like Tarquin. He doesn't care much for team jerseys. He instead seeks out particular individuals who earn his trust and, once earned, sticks with them regardless of their alignment or their goals in life.

That's why he trusts Durkon. I strongly doubt he'd be so trusting of a vampire he just met. But Durkon is Durkon, and Roy will stick with him regardless of vital status or alignment. Just as he stuck with Belkar, even when Belkar showed his evil colors and murdered Azure City guards.

So I suspect trustfulness is more an artifact of whether the person in question grew up in a threatening environment than their alignment. Obviously evil people in a good society have to be a little bit deceptive, or they will be outcast, driven out and hunted down. But I wonder if the reverse wouldn't hold true in the usually evil goblin society -- whether a goblin which chose to harbor good sympathies and actions would have to conceal it, dressing up in a black cloak and only pretending to drink the blood of the innocent, for example.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Ridureyu]

Roy's philosophy of "Belkar is always wrong or lying, no matter what evidence is to the contrary" is going to bite him SO HARD in the ass.

But when it happens, he will spend his time saying, "This wasn't because I distrusted Belkar."

[Smolder]

Roy's philosophy of "Belkar is always wrong or lying, no matter what evidence is to the contrary" is going to bite him SO HARD in the ass.

But when it happens, he will spend his time saying, "This wasn't because I distrusted Belkar."

I would think that Durkula would be a walking, talking reminder of the last time Roy refused to believe something Belkar said.

[F.Harr]

Oo! Groovy new weapon. But will he be able to weild that in addition to a normal dagger? I mean, if it feels weird.

[Mister Non PC]

Pleather seems to be taking a real beating in here.

As it turns out, I happen to own a pleather jacket in a hybrid bomber/cafe motorcycle racer jacket style. The jacket is rugged as hell, looks EXACTLY like real leather and is even aging realistically. The material is slightly cool to the touch, unlike real leather which feels warm. It is completely waterproof, and stain resistant. It's also warmer than the real thing.

It also cost me $57, which was about $500 less than a comparable real leather jacket.

Sorry. Pleather rocks.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Oo! Groovy new weapon. But will he be able to weild that in addition to a normal dagger? I mean, if it feels weird.

I think the last panel shows that it'll be fine.

[Fjolnir]

Pleather seems to be taking a real beating in here.

As it turns out, I happen to own a pleather jacket in a hybrid bomber/cafe motorcycle racer jacket style. The jacket is rugged as hell, looks EXACTLY like real leather and is even aging realistically. The material is slightly cool to the touch, unlike real leather which feels warm. It is completely waterproof, and stain resistant. It's also warmer than the real thing.

It also cost me $57, which was about $500 less than a comparable real leather jacket.

Sorry. Pleather rocks.

Won't someone please think of the poor naugas!?

Spoiler: Naugas

Show

[elros]

I'm glad the Giant explained how Tarquin could kill Nale so easily with a dagger. Makes me wonder what his axe could do!

[Bulldog Psion]

Roy's philosophy of "Belkar is always wrong or lying, no matter what evidence is to the contrary" is going to bite him SO HARD in the ass.

Oh, definitely. You can see he's really setting himself up here.

By the way, on an unrelated topic, why is the threadicon for this thread so snarly ? It seems more like this would be appropriate for such a funny strip.

[Shale]

The comic is funny but Belkar is ragey.

[MagicalMeat]

I know that OotS makes anachronistic references all the time, but I do wonder how they could create plastic.

[Keltest]

I know that OotS makes anachronistic references all the time, but I do wonder how they could create plastic.

Obviously Tarquin used a ring of wishes to wish for a stylish wrap for his dagger. His wisdom is just low enough that he phrased it poorly.

[Porthos]

I know that OotS makes anachronistic references all the time, but I do wonder how they could create plastic.

He obviously picked it up at the local Aberzombie & Fitch store. It's in many of the same shopping malls as Quest Buy, don'tcha know.

[Necris Omega]

I know that OotS makes anachronistic references all the time, but I do wonder how they could create plastic.

Eh, could simply be an alchemic facsimile.

Really, more and more I find periodic references to "high" technology in a "medieval" setting bothers me less and less as time goes on. I think so long as it isn't such that it's radically out of place that it can't be resolved against the setting I'm alright with it in limited doses. Here, though, it's more just humor than an anachro--... well, no anachronism isn't really accurate, but a straight faced breach of the established setting.

[Ghost Nappa]

I'll let you know when I stop giggling to myself.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I know that OotS makes anachronistic references all the time, but I do wonder how they could create plastic.

It could be worse; it could have magic trains.

Oh, definitely. You can see he's really setting himself up here.

By the way, on an unrelated topic, why is the threadicon for this thread so snarly ? It seems more like this would be appropriate for such a funny strip.

Sometimes the smiley is random.

[nrwillick]

I know that OotS makes anachronistic references all the time, but I do wonder how they could create plastic.

Mordenkainen's magical wrap?

[Bird]

Roy's philosophy of "Belkar is always wrong or lying, no matter what evidence is to the contrary" is going to bite him SO HARD in the ass.

But when it happens, he will spend his time saying, "This wasn't because I distrusted Belkar."

I think it's important that this is more a case of "Belkar is wrong" than "Belkar is lying." You can trust someone and still think they're wrong about important things. And the end of the last chapter showed us repeatedly that Roy's trust in Belkar has increased--not to the extent that Roy trusts Haley, say, but it's a little better than before. I might even make an argument that Roy now trusts Belkar almost as much as he should, but for personal reasons is just blowing it on this particular issue.

Roy's a smart guy. I am hopeful that he will have a chance to come around on this before Durkula betrays them.

Edit: though the fact that Roy believed the story about "Belkar jumped overboard on his own" does present a problem for my point of view.

[MagicalMeat]

Actually, in retrospect, I could totally see plastic as some bizarre material like Mithril or something, but the way V casually dismissed it suggests abundance.

....


I am totally overthinking this.

[Bird]

A nice little bit about this strip. People have, rightly, pointed out V's lovely sarcastic 'what an unprecedented development' jab. What I haven't seen commented on was Belkar saying in response, more or less, "fair point". If grumpily.

A small attention to detail, but one I appreciated.

A good line, and one that's quite in character for Belkar. He often acknowledges what a little bastard he is. For all his faults, he has few illusions about what people think of him.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I love how Roy is, once again, showing off his wonderful rope-pulling skills.

[zimmerwald1915]

No, Durkon merits investigating because he is not Durkon yet claims to be...

...which is a fact that is true, but also a fact that no one (including Belkar) knows or has any reasonable grounds to suspect.

[Bird]

...which is a fact that is true, but also a fact that no one (including Belkar) knows or has any reasonable grounds to suspect.

Belkar has good reasons to suspect, although he doesn't have proof.

"He is a vampire" is a quite good reason to be suspicious. Nobody claiming that "Durkon is still Durkon" or "he is someone different" has met a robust burden of proof. Durkula is evil--he admits as much--so it is obvious that a more-than-superficial change has occurred. It is quite reasonable to suspect the possibility that more-than-superficial change (including an alignment swap) = different person.

Durkula also made the flimsy case that he only drained Belkar because he was ordered to, which Belkar found a hole in. (Maybe Belkar's logic wasn't sound, but Durkula didn't seem to be playing straight, either.)

On the same page, Belkar made a general point about how character development isn't instantaneous, which I think synchs up well with a point The Giant wants to make, and seems to be a valid inference about how the OotS universe operates.

[breathandpaper]

I love how Roy is, once again, showing off his wonderful rope-pulling skills.

Hah, nice catch.

Why is everyone giving Roy (and the order) such a hard time for not figuring Durkon out already? I mean, I wonder what people were saying back when Nale was impersonating Elan. I was half expecting Haley to play the "I would never mistake the one I love" trope back then, not to mention Nale wasn't doing half the act Durkula is doing now.

But maybe we have higher expectations for them, now.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I know that OotS makes anachronistic references all the time, but I do wonder how they could create plastic.

Actually, the first plastics were made with plant esters. Which I can totally see Laurin doing, just to make elves and druids cry about the poor mutilated plants.

[Rodin]

Eh, could simply be an alchemic facsimile.

Really, more and more I find periodic references to "high" technology in a "medieval" setting bothers me less and less as time goes on. I think so long as it isn't such that it's radically out of place that it can't be resolved against the setting I'm alright with it in limited doses. Here, though, it's more just humor than an anachro--... well, no anachronism isn't really accurate, but a straight faced breach of the established setting.

The comic breaches the setting about every other comic anyway. The time that occurs to me most obviously is Qarr's comment "pull the other one, it plays Judas Priest". Heck, this isn't even the first time we've seen faux leather - Redcloak put the fake phylactery in some. Swanky!

[luagha]

A Collision weapon is almost strangely optimized for Belkar, who makes his living based on vast numbers of dinky attacks with his two-weapon fighting and greater two-weapon-fighting. His main hand attacks become far less dinky, which means he can do more to single big bad guys as opposed to mopping up on scads of little ones. It's very good for our favorite SSGoW.

[Bird]

Hah, nice catch.

Why is everyone giving Roy (and the order) such a hard time for not figuring Durkon out already? I mean, I wonder what people were saying back when Nale was impersonating Elan. I was half expecting Haley to play the "I would never mistake the one I love" trope back then, not to mention Nale wasn't doing half the act Durkula is doing now.

But maybe we have higher expectations for them, now.

Hmm. Nale had the advantage that, except for whatever slip-ups he had ("Right you are, Belkon"), no one had a reason to be suspicious of him. Plus, strange/erratic behavior is expected from Elan, making him easier to impersonate. On the other hand, Durkula has the advantage that differences in his behavior and personality can be partially explained away by the fact that he's a vampire.