[PF] ACG is now out! What strikes your eyes?

[zimmerwald1915]

For what it's worth, I relatively like Enora's character design...she's not twisted around into brokeback poses in the art.

Her pose is actually quite bizarre. Her right hip is cocked out and her let foot is pointed; to me this suggests that her right leg is actually bent and her left extended under her robes, like a dancer. It is actually possible to hold such a pose for a long time (I've done it), so it's not as bad as it could have been, but it's not exactly an "at ease" pose either.

(...she's definitely a wizard.)

Word.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Her pose is actually quite bizarre. Her right hip is cocked out and her let foot is pointed; to me this suggests that her right leg is actually bent and her left extended under her robes, like a dancer. It is actually possible to hold such a pose for a long time (I've done it), so it's not as bad as it could have been, but it's not exactly an "at ease" pose either.

True, but I can give it some slack because it's obviously to show her foot so we know she's a halfling rather than just a short human: Definitely better ways of accomplishing that.

[zimmerwald1915]

True, but I can give it some slack because it's obviously to show her foot so we know she's a halfling rather than just a short human: Definitely better ways of accomplishing that.

Fair enough.

As far as "better ways" go, the first that comes to mind is shortening the hem of her robe. She comes from the desert and likes exploring swamps; unless the Rahadoumi government is really strict in its dress code (and who knows, it might be!), there's no reason for her to have that long a hem.

[Snowbluff]

Prestidigitation is an at-will, so would she care?

[Psyren]

I'm not seeing the issue really. Arcane casters have Prestidigitation and Divine casters have Create Water. Every starting adventurer's kit includes soap, and you probably aren't in the desert or the plane of fire at level 1. So stanky adventurers shouldn't be a problem for most parties.

[Bhaakon]

Don't you know that bathing is unhealthy? It exposed the pours to miasmic air.

[malonkey1]

Prestidigitation is an at-will, so would she care?

Well, there's always the issue of tripping over it.

[Snowbluff]

Well, there's always the issue of tripping over it.

Well, the halfing has +2 dex, so that makes it easier. The robe is small and the character is small, so any other bonuses or penalties should balance out.

Next you'll be telling me that these heels are impractical.

[grarrrg]

Don't you know that bathing is unhealthy? It exposed the pours to miasmic air.

Air is poisonous don't you know.
It has a near 100% fatality rate.
Everyone who has ever lived has either died from exposure to air, or it currently suffering from exposure to air.

[malonkey1]

Air is poisonous don't you know.
It has a near 100% fatality rate.
Everyone who has ever lived has either died from exposure to air, or it currently suffering from exposure to air.

Actually, Oxygen is a pretty wild chemical, and it can screw things up if you don't get enough antioxidants. Google "Free Radicals". I'm sure that's not what you meant, though.

[squiggit]

Hm. Crimson Mantis gets slightly less MAD with Swash 1 as part of your entry and Slashing Grace (Sawtooth) at 5.

Still not a very great class, but still nice.


Also: Mutagenic Warrior and Daring Champion don't have any clause about subbing you fighter/cavalier levels for alchemist/swashbuckler levels... so Fighter gets 0 minute wings and Daring Champion gets a 0 damage precise strike.

[Talentless]

Really pretty late to the party here in this thread, but having just got the book and looking through it... Pathfinder can now support a Four Heavenly Kings* party.

You have

• A Brawler with Pummeling style and Boar Style (Toriko)
  A White-Haired Witch (Sunny)
  An Investigator with heavy poison specialization (Coco)
  And last but not least, a Skald with as many sonic damage abilities as you can stack (Zebra or Zebura depending on translation)

Damn... now I really wish more of my friends were into that show, I totally want to play that now.


*From the Manga Toriko

[Raven777]

So, after perusal and giving it about a week to simmer, I have come to the conclusion that despite several nice gems, the book is also full of stupid full of oversights.

I mean, the Bolt Ace still gets a gun and Gunsmithing at 1st level.

[Beowulf DW]

Hm. Crimson Mantis gets slightly less MAD with Swash 1 as part of your entry and Slashing Grace (Sawtooth) at 5.

Still not a very great class, but still nice.

That's what I find most fascinating about some of these classes: They bring new considerations and abilities to old prestige classes.

Really pretty late to the party here in this thread, but having just got the book and looking through it... Pathfinder can now support a Four Heavenly Kings* party.

You have

• A Brawler with Pummeling style and Boar Style (Toriko)
  A White-Haired Witch (Sunny)
  An Investigator with heavy poison specialization (Coco)
  And last but not least, a Skald with as many sonic damage abilities as you can stack (Zebra or Zebura depending on translation)

Damn... now I really wish more of my friends were into that show, I totally want to play that now.


*From the Manga Toriko

I had the strangest and strongest sense of deja vu while reading this post. I could almost swear I've seen this exact before.

[Talentless]

That's what I find most fascinating about some of these classes: They bring new considerations and abilities to old prestige classes.



I had the strangest and strongest sense of deja vu while reading this post. I could almost swear I've seen this exact before.

If so i apologize, i used the search thread function, then skimmed it. Still might of missed it

Still, was my initial strikes my eyes thoughts when browsing the book itself, so i suppose that counts for the thread?

[Beowulf DW]

If so i apologize, i used the search thread function, then skimmed it. Still might of missed it

Still, was my initial strikes my eyes thoughts when browsing the book itself, so i suppose that counts for the thread?

No, no. I didn't mean that I thought you'd copied from somewhere else, seeing your post just brought a very strong sense of deja vu. It's a feeling like I've seen something from a half-remembered dream.

At any rate, the evil little gears in my head are starting to turn, and I'd like to throw out an idea for an Eldritch Knight build for review.

Bloodrager 1
Blade Adept Arcanist 6
Eldritch Knight X

What brings this together are the Spell Strike (for obvious reasons) and the Eldritch Blade exploits. Eldritch Blade allows a character to use one's caster level rather than class level to determine the abilities of the Black Blade. So you should be getting every level here to count towards said Black Blade.

Now, it's entirely possible that this doesn't work that way. I've never been entirely clear on how to determine caster level, especially when it comes to classes like the Bloodrager that only get spells later in their careers.

Now, if all that works, all we have to do is find some feat that allows bloodcasting with non-Bloodrager spells, and we'll have some kind of super-gish...I'm only half-joking, btw. Part of me expects there to be a feat like that somewhere in this book.

[Craft (Cheese)]

At any rate, the evil little gears in my head are starting to turn, and I'd like to throw out an idea for an Eldritch Knight build for review.

Bloodrager 1
Blade Adept Arcanist 6
Eldritch Knight X

What brings this together are the Spell Strike (for obvious reasons) and the Eldritch Blade exploits. Eldritch Blade allows a character to use one's caster level rather than class level to determine the abilities of the Black Blade. So you should be getting every level here to count towards said Black Blade.

Now, it's entirely possible that this doesn't work that way. I've never been entirely clear on how to determine caster level, especially when it comes to classes like the Bloodrager that only get spells later in their careers.

Caster levels from two caster classes never stack, so your ECL for the purposes of your Black Blade would be your arcanist levels + (1 - your eldritch knight levels). Simply put, this isn't very good: That bloodrager level isn't given you anything, and you're too far behind on your casting *and* your BAB progression to be competitive as a gish.

[Snowbluff]

I concur. Unless you ignore the Outsider FAQ, Eldritch Knight isn't worth entering.

Is there an extra exploit feat? I kind of want to do Aasimar Blade Adept 3/EK10 sometime.

[ibtfu]

I concur. Unless you ignore the Outsider FAQ, Eldritch Knight isn't worth entering.

You can qualify for Eldritch Knight with Scryer 1 and a class that gets all martial weapons. There is a FAQ that specifies SLAs qualify for prestige classes like EK and Mystic Theurge.

[grarrrg]

You can qualify for Eldritch Knight with Scryer 1 and a class that gets all martial weapons. There is a FAQ that specifies SLAs qualify for prestige classes like EK and Mystic Theurge.

I do believe the "class that gets all martial weapons" is the (Snowbluff's) main problem here. As it will pretty much NEVER contribute to your Casting.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Is there an extra exploit feat?

Yes, it's called "Extra Arcanist Exploit."

[Arutema]

That's what I find most fascinating about some of these classes: They bring new considerations and abilities to old prestige classes.

Here's one of my favorites: the Bloodrager and Eldritch Scion magus can both cast arcane spells without preparation, which qualifies them for Dragon Disciple.

Who wouldn't want to trade 2 levels of bloodrager casting for +4 Str, +3 natural armor, and blindsense. Yes, you lose some rage progression, but the +4 always-on Str boost balances out the +4 situational Str boost you lose by not advancing bloodrage.

[Orsyn]

I mean, the Bolt Ace still gets a gun and Gunsmithing at 1st level.

This particular fact has baffled me since I first read the archetype. I mean, I believe that this is exactly what crossbows needed, but it could have been slightly more thought out. My plan at my table is to replace the firearm proficiencies with all crossbow proficiencies, and probably give rapid reload at level one as a bonus feat à la musket master.

Here's one of my favorites: the Bloodrager and Eldritch Scion magus can both cast arcane spells without preparation, which qualifies them for Dragon Disciple.

Significantly less useful and, in my mind, more entertaining: one can argue that the spell sage wizard qualifies for Dragon Disciple.

[Suichimo]

I do believe the "class that gets all martial weapons" is the (Snowbluff's) main problem here. As it will pretty much NEVER contribute to your Casting.

That's what the Magical Knack trait is for. It makes up for your lost CL from the melee class and EK1. Unless the martial side is a problem for a different reason.

[Beowulf DW]

Caster levels from two caster classes never stack, so your ECL for the purposes of your Black Blade would be your arcanist levels + (1 - your eldritch knight levels). Simply put, this isn't very good: That bloodrager level isn't given you anything, and you're too far behind on your casting *and* your BAB progression to be competitive as a gish.

What's the point of this exploit, then?

Also, the "classic" Gish is a fighter/wizard with a BAB of 15 and a CL of 18. I'm pretty sure that even taking lack of caster level into account, Bloodrager/Arcanist is keeping up just fine, and it still has access to spells a Magus will never learn, while stealing the Magus's Spellstrike ability.

That's what the Magical Knack trait is for. It makes up for your lost CL from the melee class and EK1. Unless the martial side is a problem for a different reason.

And the problem is solved with a single trait. Figures.

Quite a few classes now get martial weapon proficiency, so that requirement hasn't exactly exactly gotten more difficult with time. The Warpriest, the Skald, the Hunter, the Slayer and the Swashbuckler can all potentially be used to qualify for EK.

[Snowbluff]

What's the point of this exploit, then?

It lets your Black Blade scale with your caster level, rather than your Arcanist level. An Arcanist3/EK10 would count as level 12, and has a +3 enhancement.

Also, the "classic" Gish is a fighter/wizard with a BAB of 15 and a CL of 18. I'm pretty sure that even taking lack of caster level into account, Bloodrager/Arcanist is keeping up just fine, and it still has access to spells a Magus will never learn, while stealing the Magus's Spellstrike ability.

BAB 16 and CL 17 is the goal for a wizard gish.

Quite a few classes now get martial weapon proficiency, so that requirement hasn't exactly exactly gotten more difficult with time. The Warpriest, the Skald, the Hunter, the Slayer and the Swashbuckler can all potentially be used to qualify for EK.

You're already 2 levels behind with EK and playing an arcanist. It's harsh.

[Codenpeg]

I do believe the "class that gets all martial weapons" is the (Snowbluff's) main problem here. As it will pretty much NEVER contribute to your Casting.

Aasimar or Tiefling would get you all Martial weapons. That's if you go by the "Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry." in the outsiders traits.

[Snowbluff]

Aasimar or Tiefling would get you all Martial weapons. That's if you go by the "Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry." in the outsiders traits.

Not according to the FAQ/Devs. D:

[Beowulf DW]

BAB 16 and CL 17 is the goal for a wizard gish.

You're already 2 levels behind with EK and playing an arcanist. It's harsh.

BAB 16 and CL 17 can be achieved with a Sorcerer, so I'm pretty sure it can be done with an Arcanist, too. It really doesn't seem all that harsh by comparison. And with the aforementioned trait, your CL becomes 19, you still have a free scaling magic weapon, and you still have the Magus's Spellstrike. That's two rather potent class features that the wizard is missing out on.

[Snowbluff]

BAB 16 and CL 17 can be achieved with a Sorcerer, so I'm pretty sure it can be done with an Arcanist, too. It really doesn't seem all that harsh by comparison. And with the aforementioned trait, your CL becomes 19, you still have a free scaling magic weapon, and you still have the Magus's Spellstrike. That's two rather potent class features that the wizard is missing out on.

*shakes head* Nope. It's CL (not just caster level, but spell slots, etc) 18 or sorcs/arcanists for 9th level spells.

AFAICT, spell strike is pretty bad without spell combat...