Frustrating having to hold back...does anyone feel this way?

[thematgreen]

So I have been running into an issue where I use my brain to solve issues that the DM has posed during my games. It's gotten to the point where people don't like to play with my characters, not becuase they are overpowered, but because I solve every issue.

When a game is in progress and a problem comes up I quietly wait until somebody poses an idea and chime in, but most of the time the group just sits there, posing no suggestions, and if nothing is said they start just chatting about non game issues....at this point I take over.

Example:

In the last Shadowrun game we played we have a mission to stop this armored car full of "poison" and return it to the elven nation. Nobody had any ideas so I hired a small gang, we hacked a construction company to make ourselves employees, and then pretended to be a construction crew. When the truck showed up I popped C4 onto the the windshield and told the drivers to get out. A successful roll later and I had the truck. I instantly did a U-Turn and drove away.

The group thought it was funny, but the DM was unhappy that he had this big fight ready to go over the vehicle with Terminator type enemies.

Later, the group mentioned that I take over in every game we play and that it is unfair to do that since they all have ideas.


In a recent Pathfinder game we ended up in a situation where we were going to battle some BBEG BSF that did not utilize any type of magic, so I got him to chase me into a room with one door, dimensional doored out, and then had the group close and lock the door. Then I decided we should go back to town and wait for the bad guy to die of starvation. I thought it was clever since we were going to just be destroyed by the guy.

The DM gave us no expierence for the encounter since we didn't fight him, and the gear/money he had was gone when we went back. We also got no reward because we didn't follow the exact wording that the Mayor gave us "Kill the BBEG". DM logic is that starvation killed him, not us.

So, my point is, has anyone run into situations like the above, where you just "Out-Clever" the DM and take leadership of the group and the group and DM get mad at you? Obviously there are more instances, but I don't want to go on and on.

It's frustrating and I am losing my desire to play anymore, because unless I play a stupid fighter with low stats I get complained at that I am min/maxing.

[Gabrosin]

It can sometimes be tough, especially with a less experienced party, to hold back and let them come up with solutions, especially if you feel the ones you come up with are better. But that's part of playing on a team. Unless they're looking to you for all the solutions, you should consider only stepping in when you think something is going to go horribly wrong, or when they ask you to contribute.

The DM, however, should not be in the business of punishing you for creative solutions. He may circumvent them from time to time (e.g. why did none of the BBEG's henchmen track him down and help him out of the locked room?), but he shouldn't be just decreeing that you can't get rewarded for being clever. Especially from the mayor's perspective; you accomplished the task set before you.

[ComaVision]

That's rough, man.

To get around the optimization thing, I like to play a low tier class so I can optimize it to my heart's content and still not out-shine anyone too badly. As far as the idea thing, I don't know what more you can do. It sounds like you're giving ample opportunity for other players to tune in so I'm not sure what they can really expect from you.

[thematgreen]

It can sometimes be tough, especially with a less experienced party, to hold back and let them come up with solutions, especially if you feel the ones you come up with are better. But that's part of playing on a team. Unless they're looking to you for all the solutions, you should consider only stepping in when you think something is going to go horribly wrong, or when they ask you to contribute.

The DM, however, should not be in the business of punishing you for creative solutions. He may circumvent them from time to time (e.g. why did none of the BBEG's henchmen track him down and help him out of the locked room?), but he shouldn't be just decreeing that you can't get rewarded for being clever. Especially from the mayor's perspective; you accomplished the task set before you.

I've done that pretty much my whole recent adventuring career. The first thing I ask is "Okay, what should we do?" Everyone just sits there, staring at me. I provide some ideas...*Blank stares* "....ooookkkkay what about this idea?"

Or the idea given is something like what happened in a game I was running recently...So the set up was that they were having to hurry down the road to this river to keep ahead of a band of Deathknights that were unaware of them but coming up, and in the distance a Black Dragon was flying around, not noticing them either. The game was low level but I wanted to give them a sense of urgency....

So what was the plan? The wizard sends a magical message to the dragon, demanding it help him kill the Deathknights. He jus stopped in the open road and did that. The rest of the group ran to the river and took the boat, leaving him behind.

So after some rolls on my part the dragon heard, headed towards him just as the Deathknights, 20 of them, showed up. Seems that the Dragon was the boss of the Deathknights and the level 5 wizard was torn apart....

...being the nice GM I said he had fallen, hit his head, and was having a dream sequence and the rest of the group got him safely to the boat.

Everyone is on board, we win, everyone is happy, then after the game everyone complains that I take over, most of the time complaining to the DM...many times when I am still sitting there.



I later talked to the DM and told him that just because he didn't get to beat on us doesn't mean he can punish us. A DM should be setting the world and setting challenges, not playing against the party.

Suffice to say, after the expierence of being yelled at by the group and the DM I don't play with them anymore.

[Tengu_temp]

I'll start by saying that this doesn't look like an optimization issue for me. The examples you were given were less about optimization and more about doing things in a smart way.

If the other PCs complain that you're overshadowing them, then share your ideas only after they shared theirs, and create a plan together. Be a team player. Take initiative if nobody else has any idea what to do; they cannot complain you're not letting them show their ideas if they have no ideas to begin with!

What your DM is doing, on the other hand, strikes me as poor running. A good DM should be happy his players are using their brains instead of just approaching everything as a straightforward bash! Cheating you out of your rewards for defeating an enemy in an unconventional way is unfair, and bad DMing.

[nedz]

In the last Shadowrun game we played we have a mission to stop this armored car full of "poison" and return it to the elven nation. Nobody had any ideas so I hired a small gang, we hacked a construction company to make ourselves employees, and then pretended to be a construction crew. When the truck showed up I popped C4 onto the the windshield and told the drivers to get out. A successful roll later and I had the truck. I instantly did a U-Turn and drove away.

The group thought it was funny, but the DM was unhappy that he had this big fight ready to go over the vehicle with Terminator type enemies.

In a recent Pathfinder game we ended up in a situation where we were going to battle some BBEG BSF that did not utilize any type of magic, so I got him to chase me into a room with one door, dimensional doored out, and then had the group close and lock the door. Then I decided we should go back to town and wait for the bad guy to die of starvation. I thought it was clever since we were going to just be destroyed by the guy.

The DM gave us no experience for the encounter since we didn't fight him, and the gear/money he had was gone when we went back. We also got no reward because we didn't follow the exact wording that the Mayor gave us "Kill the BBEG". DM logic is that starvation killed him, not us.

Your DM isn't very good. You think laterally and solve problems in ways which deviate from his original plan — and he complains. He should be encouraging this. In the second case you should have had xp because you defeated the challenge.

Maybe you should try your hand at DMing ?

[thematgreen]

That's rough, man.

To get around the optimization thing, I like to play a low tier class so I can optimize it to my heart's content and still not out-shine anyone too badly. As far as the idea thing, I don't know what more you can do. It sounds like you're giving ample opportunity for other players to tune in so I'm not sure what they can really expect from you.

I'm playing a Mystic Theurge next game, see how they like carrying me along then!

[Oneris]

What about giving them semi-decent ideas with humongous flaws for them to point out? Once the group starts discussing how an idea is bad, then they might start thinking of ways to improve it, and then you've got a decent plan that's a product of everyone's effort.

[thematgreen]

Your DM isn't very good. You think laterally and solve problems in ways which deviate from his original plan — and he complains. He should be encouraging this. In the second case you should have had xp because you defeated the challenge.

Maybe you should try your hand at DMing ?

Other than a Homebrew adventure with a zombie invasion I don't DM anymore. I don't have a solid group of players, and the people who DO want to play decide to take it as social time lets watch videos on our phone and talk over the DM. So, I am just not going to DM anymore until I get a new group...and on the other side of the coin, I don't want a super hardcore group. I just want to play my homebrew campaigns (I run it as a single, massive, city with quests rewards that are things like No diplomacy checks for succeeding, free room and board, one free ressurrection of a party member, and negative consequences for bad behavior, such as the death of a contact, being shut out of a group that may have info you need, having Diplomacy DC being bumped by 20 points. An organic world where actions have consequences.) with a good group of people who want to play the game for a couple hours.

[jaydubs]

A lot of times people aren't used to making decisions are nervous about it, or aren't sure if they have the right answer. Your group can try setting it up so that someone (a player other than you) is decidedly in charge. It's like when there's an emergency, and you need someone to call emergency services. You don't say "Someone call 911!" because they might all expect someone else to do it. You pick out a specific person who seems competent enough and you put the responsibility on his or her shoulders.

Cycle through the group a few times doing that. Some will decide they like the role, and some will find out they prefer not being under the pressure.

Alternatively, you can try to take on a more inclusive leadership style. Instead of approaching it as "no one else has an idea, so here's mine," divide the problem into small, manageable bits. And then ask the group to brainstorm about how to solve each problem individually. That way it's not your plan anymore. It's everyone's plan.

Be aware of course that that runs it's own risks. While I often use the "let's all plan it out together" approach, those discussions can sometimes get bogged down. Set a time goal unless everyone is really into the planning, after which the group has to come to a decision.