Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

[noob]

I was worried because I was afraid that I would have missed the voting thread.
Thanks you for managing those contests.

[Temotei]

I was worried because I was afraid that I would have missed the voting thread.

Nope. I just forgot completely because I've had a lot going on lately, even during spring break.

Thanks you for managing those contests.

Here's the voting thread!

[Temotei]

Three participants still have to vote to qualify, and April 4th is fast approaching. In case you didn't see the link, it's in the post above.

[Lanth Sor]

I was super sad panda I went on vacation then my parents Summoned(+10 because it was my BDay the 13th) me the last 2 days of the contest. :(

[Temotei]

1st Place: sengmeng's dude who does Tai Chi!

2nd Place: Salasay's verrück balancer!

3rd Place: noob's yet another chaos mage!

New contest will be up shortly.

[Temotei]

Here we go!

[noob]

Well it is weird nearly nobody voted.

[Beelzebub1111]

I think that I've got a good idea for this one. I don't know if it will work, but it will be fun.

[Jormengand]

No spell list yet, but the sacred asp mage is otherwise a thing.

[sengmeng]

1st Place: sengmeng's dude who does Tai Chi!

2nd Place: Salasay's verrück balancer!

3rd Place: noob's yet another chaos mage!

New contest will be up shortly.

Yikes. It's a sad day when a monk fix wins.

[Temotei]

Yikes. It's a sad day when a monk fix wins.

Pfft. Take it as a compliment.

[roko10]

Hey, alcohol is considered poison, right?

[Beelzebub1111]

Most things are poison if you have a large enough dose.

[Jormengand]

Hey, alcohol is considered poison, right?

Drugs and poison aren't considered the same thing. For example, you automatically fail your fortitude save if you deliberately take a drug (?), wheres you can still take the fort save against poison (in fact, you have to).

I've been reading the BoVD too much. And possibly the BoED too much too, but that's another matter.

[Temotei]

Hey, alcohol is considered poison, right?

Most things are poison if you have a large enough dose.

Drugs and poison aren't considered the same thing. For example, you automatically fail your fortitude save if you deliberately take a drug (?), wheres you can still take the fort save against poison (in fact, you have to).

I've been reading the BoVD too much. And possibly the BoED too much too, but that's another matter.

Mechanically, alcohol may not be poison, but feel free to play with the theme. There's a reason one of the examples is a morally poisonous person--not everything has to be straightforward.

That said, I'm going to echo what I said last time: I don't vote. Other people do, and they can vote however they want. If they feel your class doesn't fit the theme, they might not vote favorably toward your class. Keep that in mind if it matters to you.

[Jormengand]

Your quote pyramid is inside-out.

Anyway, apart from "It has no spell list hurry up and give it a spell list", anyone have any thoughts so far on my class?

EDIT: Actually, I just realised that all of the bludgeoning substitutions are stupidly powerful and should allow saves even though the others don't. Let's change that.

EDIT EDIT: Changed.

[Temotei]

Your quote pyramid is inside-out.

Psh. Nah. Nope. Never. Would never make that mistake almost eight years into my membership.

[Beelzebub1111]

I think that I have something good, but I've got to say that I miss the old tables. They made it so much easier to see how the class was filled out and what needed tweaking.

[Temotei]

I think that I have something good, but I've got to say that I miss the old tables. They made it so much easier to see how the class was filled out and what needed tweaking.

Agreed. Oh well.

[Jormengand]

I think that I have something good, but I've got to say that I miss the old tables. They made it so much easier to see how the class was filled out and what needed tweaking.

You're welcome. Also, you can set PifRo to "Normal" to see a table, "GITP" to see old code or "PIFBB" to see new code.

[Beelzebub1111]

Okay, I'm about half done with the class. Thought I'd post what I have so I can visualize the framework and fix what needs to be done.

[Lanth Sor]

So I made this class to play a drunk brawler after finding Ocelemo's Oni Brawler, and realizing no DM would allow me to play it.

[Beelzebub1111]

Looking over the asp mage I can think of one thing that can break the class at higher levels: Energy Substitution (Cold)

A lot of high level monsters have dexterity scores in the single digits. Something to consider.

And while I'm at it, Energy subsitution (sonic) instantly KOs any animal from a rat to a T-rex.

[Jormengand]

Ehh. Ability damage is good against things with low ability scores. Must be a Wednesday, what else is new?

[Beelzebub1111]

Don't get me wrong. I understand what you are saying, but we're talking about taking out something 5 cr higher than your level in one round with no saving throw. without even being all that optimized. This depends on spell list of course, but I'm using a fairly common evocation for my math here.

And you have to think "at what level can I reliably deal 27 energy damage in one hit" and that's the level you kill every great wyrm dragon with the fire subtype on the first round.

This is why effects that deal ability damage tend to be Save Negates.

[sengmeng]

The Metabolist is in a playable state. I'd like to give him more versatility, but I don't want to stretch the believability of the concept much farther. PEACHes welcome.

[Lanth Sor]

I'm still refining the class adding in new flavors, but the core is done. So PLEASE PEACH THE BLACKOUT BRAWLER.

[sengmeng]

I'm still refining the class adding in new flavors, but the core is done. So PLEASE PEACH THE BLACKOUT BRAWLER.

Well, I like the flavor, but we've had alcohol as a theme before, and using it for the poison-themed contest doesn't feel like as strong of a tie to the concept as the other entries, but everyone can vote as they see fit. Honestly, all other aspects being equal, that would be the tipping point for whether you get my vote or not, so you'd have to outshine the other entries in other areas for my vote. I also can't say whether this wants to be the Drunken Master archetype or a more brutish barfighter. The Evasion says martial artist, many other features say brute. Either one is fine, but I'd like them more distinct. I guess I'm saying pick one or the other, or make the two more clearly divided paths the class can take.

I like a lot of his offensive and defensive abilities, and he gets maneuvers so he has non-boring combat options. I would allow it in my game and I would enjoy playing one. The thing I really don't like, though, is the endless flask. It's just too easy. It's like if a wizard could summon a spellbook any time, any number of times. It plays havoc with power and theme. Finding enough booze to fuel his abilities would be an interesting tactical and roleplaying challenge. I would not allow the endless flask, and I'd adjust the benefits from the different flavors to come from some other source.

So, it does what the name says, which I like, it's a melee fighter with fun options, which I like as well, but it's stretching the limits of the theme and has one class feature that rubs me the wrong way. That's just me, so take it with a grain of salt. Hope it helps.

[Lanth Sor]

The flask is there because it would be unfair to give barbarians rage, but you could only rage when you met this special condition you may not be able to ever meet if you DM decides to be a jerk. Point blank wizard spell book I feel is bad design. Something so trivial should never be an off switch for a character. As far as flavors I don't see any reason why not it would add a lot of theme to the class.

If you have a problem with the flask unlimited use you can adopt a charges per day, say it can only produce 5 + level doses of alcohol per level and at level 20 it becomes unlimited.

[sengmeng]

The flask is there because it would be unfair to give barbarians rage, but you could only rage when you met this special condition you may not be able to ever meet if you DM decides to be a jerk. Point blank wizard spell book I feel is bad design. Something so trivial should never be an off switch for a character. As far as flavors I don't see any reason why not it would add a lot of theme to the class.

If you have a problem with the flask unlimited use you can adopt a charges per day, say it can only produce 5 + level doses of alcohol per level and at level 20 it becomes unlimited.

You can do as you like with your class. I'd never allow the flask in my campaign, but I might let him acquire a similar one as treasure. You're just trying to shore up a potential weakness in the class, and I get it, but there has to be a little trust for the DM to make a game fun and challenging. You can't fix jerky DMs with any class feature.