Tales of Maj'Oh-No

[BladeofObliviom]

Well, it's more complex than that. In truth, Shadowblades have the second-best mobility in the game, because that's a large part of what they do. (The best mobility prize, btw, goes to Arcane Blade. They get Rush, Step Up, Blinding Speed, Feather Wind, AND Conveyance.)

Marauder has only slightly less mobility than the Shadowblade, really. Yes, it isn't Teleportation, but Step Up procs often enough that it might as well be a free half-Phase Door whenever you kill something, which tends to happen more often than Phase Door's 8-turn cooldown does. Another thing about Shadowblade is that three of its most powerful trees start locked, which means you're usually stuck giving up some of your most powerful abilities or going without any spare infusions. Another thing to note about Shadowblade is that, while it has a lot of the same "good" physical talents as Marauder does, it doesn't have any way to maintain the stamina to use them. There's no Manasurge Rune option for Stamina, which means that trying to use Momentum like the Marauder can will just leave you drained. Finally, Shadowblade just doesn't have the defensive capability that Marauder does. Unstoppable is quite possibly the single best panic button in the entire game, and the Shadowblade simply lacks anything comparable.

Finally, teleports don't work inside a vault, so Shadowblades can't use most of their otherwise awesome mobility in the places where they tend to want it most. They can use Teleport to retreat if necessary, but that's really it.



It's not that Shadowblade's bad, don't get me wrong. It's just that Marauder is quite probably the overall best Melee class in the game.

[Anteros]

I haven't had any problems keeping momentum going. You have to turn it on before fights instead of simply keeping it on all the time, but other than that I haven't had any issues.

Arcane blades don't get the battle tactics tree any more by the way. I found that out the hard way about 25 levels into my dual wielding arcane blade that was focusing on flurry into greater weapon focus for extra procs.

[Anteros]

So, I just got my first win. Shalorn Shadowblade with no stealth talents. I focused entirely on hitting things hard and fast. I had pretty terrible defenses, but when you're hitting things for 5000 a turn and move twice for every one of the enemy, they can't really do much to you. Explored every dungeon I had access to as well.

This was also my first character to make it past level 20. I'm a little disappointed with how easy the second half of the game was.

[Sian]

anyone had a swing at the expansion (Ashes of Urh'Rok) yet? ... looking interesting Doombringer seems quite imbalanced at first glance

[lord_khaine]

Not gotten a chance to take a crack at it yet myself, but might do so.

Anyone have any experience with the new Mindslayer?

[Necroticplague]

Anyone have any experience with the new Mindslayer?

Sadly, no. I keep trying to unlock the psionic classes, but every freaking time I get to that portion, the boss kills the yeek you have to protect before I can kill him.

[tyckspoon]

Sadly, no. I keep trying to unlock the psionic classes, but every freaking time I get to that portion, the boss kills the yeek you have to protect before I can kill him.

One of the easier ways to do it is to go in as a class that has .. aww, been a bit since I did it.. Dimension Door? The targetable short-range teleport. Level it until you can use it to target other actors and use it to throw the Yeek as far from the fight as you can. As a bonus, the classes that get access to Dimension Door also usually have a pretty easy time exploding Subject Z.

Spoiler: Gaming the system - open if you don't mind something that feels a bit like cheating.

Show

The other easy/cheesy way to do it is to Rod of Recall out of the Halfling Ruins as soon as you get there, which will take you out to the Eyal mainland. Go do the rest of the dungeons, come back and obliterate Subject Z when you're hideously over-leveled/overgeared and just don't give him any time to kill the Wayist. It also helps if you dig/teleport/Movement Infusion into the fight so the Wayist and Z don't have any time to try to fight each other before you're there.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

One of the easier ways to do it is to go in as a class that has .. aww, been a bit since I did it.. Dimension Door? The targetable short-range teleport. Level it until you can use it to target other actors and use it to throw the Yeek as far from the fight as you can. As a bonus, the classes that get access to Dimension Door also usually have a pretty easy time exploding Subject Z.

Spoiler: Gaming the system - open if you don't mind something that feels a bit like cheating.

Show

The other easy/cheesy way to do it is to Rod of Recall out of the Halfling Ruins as soon as you get there, which will take you out to the Eyal mainland. Go do the rest of the dungeons, come back and obliterate Subject Z when you're hideously over-leveled/overgeared and just don't give him any time to kill the Wayist. It also helps if you dig/teleport/Movement Infusion into the fight so the Wayist and Z don't have any time to try to fight each other before you're there.

Using the gamey method was the only way I was ever able to do it. I figured it was the intended way since I was too low level for a T2 dungeon

[lord_khaine]

The only class i had serious trouble with so far is Solipsist, and that class is also rather hard to figure out.

My Mindslayer is doing fairly well, but i do have trouble figuring out how the new skills should be focused, though the shields does rock, and the telekinetical wielded weapon grinds most lesser opponents into sausages.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

The only class i had serious trouble with so far is Solipsist, and that class is also rather hard to figure out.

My Mindslayer is doing fairly well, but i do have trouble figuring out how the new skills should be focused, though the shields does rock, and the telekinetical wielded weapon grinds most lesser opponents into sausages.

It was a bit of an older version, but Solipsist wasn't hard for me. Just put lots of things to sleep and then nuke them down with your mental damage tree. Bosses that were vulnerable to sleep and inner demons was hilariously easy. Dreamscape was great for refreshing cooldowns. Just use it on a weak enemy that isn't a threat to you.

Admittedly, I did this before the Mental Tyranny nerf.

[Anteros]

Using the gamey method was the only way I was ever able to do it. I figured it was the intended way since I was too low level for a T2 dungeon

I just walked up to him and murdered him with my violence in like 2 turns. Maybe I was overlevelled though, and I've only done the fight once. I was a bit disappointed how easy the game was once I got a character off the ground and haven't bothered with any more playthroughs.

[Necroticplague]

I always tried the gamey method. I have no problem killing the dude, just killing him before he offs the Yeek. Always teleports away, summons that black mist so I can't see, then kills the dang escort.

[Mewtarthio]

Try a Corruptor. Open the door, then immediately pop Vimsense. Z will then ignore the Wayist and go after you.

Just be sure to only use Vimsense after the door is open, but before they get a chance to move. Too early, and his "kill the Yeek" script kicks in and overwrites the talent's retargeting.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Try a Corruptor. Open the door, then immediately pop Vimsense. Z will then ignore the Wayist and go after you.

Just be sure to only use Vimsense after the door is open, but before they get a chance to move. Too early, and his "kill the Yeek" script kicks in and overwrites the talent's retargeting.

Not so useful when you are a Yeek trying to unlock the Mindslayer class. You'll be coming from a different direction.

[Necroticplague]

Not so useful when you are a Yeek trying to unlock the Mindslayer class. You'll be coming from a different direction.

Yeah, that my new problem. Just managed to unlock yeek by being a cursed, and use Rampage to just blast through him before he could think. Now, as a yeek coming from the other way, he seems to like 1-shotting me if I'm anything but the summoner, and killing the Wayist first if I'm the summoner.

[Knaight]

Yeah, that my new problem. Just managed to unlock yeek by being a cursed, and use Rampage to just blast through him before he could think. Now, as a yeek coming from the other way, he seems to like 1-shotting me if I'm anything but the summoner, and killing the Wayist first if I'm the summoner.

Fleeing to the surface with the rod of recall is probably the best option for a yeek, unless you really like being underpowered.

[Knaight]

It's been a while and this thread is dying, so how about some life. What does everyone think of the new classes - Skirmisher, Demonologist, etc.?

[BladeofObliviom]

It's been a while and this thread is dying, so how about some life. What does everyone think of the new classes - Skirmisher, Demonologist, etc.?

I just picked up this game again the other day after a long absence, but I don't have either of the classes you've mentioned. This mainly has to do with not having the DLC yet and Skirmisher being literally the only locked class remaining to me.

[Knaight]

I also haven't picked up the DLC - I unlocked Skirmisher yesterday (dwarf archer with a sling and a shield, blocked a shot from the slinger in Derth then shot back), and I'm quite enjoying them.

I've heard it's easier to unlock the Skirmisher with a Temporal Warden though.

[lord_khaine]

After around level 14-15 the Doombringer starts to blow though content like a cannonball though wet tissue paper, this might very well be my first win in the game.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I also haven't picked up the DLC - I unlocked Skirmisher yesterday (dwarf archer with a sling and a shield, blocked a shot from the slinger in Derth then shot back), and I'm quite enjoying them.

I've heard it's easier to unlock the Skirmisher with a Temporal Warden though.

Temporal Warden has instant weapon switching and instant teleport. That's all you need to make the achievement easy. Just level up your teleport so you can meet the distance and you'll have it unlocked in no time.

[Knaight]

After around level 14-15 the Doombringer starts to blow though content like a cannonball though wet tissue paper, this might very well be my first win in the game.

Clearly I need to get the DLC. The Doombringer sounded like it might be my style.

On an unrelated note, does anyone know if the game progress stays if you get the GoG version? It's kind of my preferred method of getting the expansion, but I really don't want to lose all the classes/trees/found lore.

[BladeofObliviom]

On an unrelated note, does anyone know if the game progress stays if you get the GoG version? It's kind of my preferred method of getting the expansion, but I really don't want to lose all the classes/trees/found lore.

I lost all progress and unlocks when I switched from the Free Downloaded client to the Steam Version, so make of that what you will.

[Necroticplague]

Temporal Warden has instant weapon switching and instant teleport. That's all you need to make the achievement easy. Just level up your teleport so you can meet the distance and you'll have it unlocked in no time.

Its possible to get even easier. Just get Rush, stay 6 squares from an archereild out. Block a projectile, then rush the dude that sent it.

[lord_khaine]

How do you unlock the new race?

[Knaight]

Its possible to get even easier. Just get Rush, stay 6 squares from an archereild out. Block a projectile, then rush the dude that sent it.

Does that actually work? I was under the impression you needed an actual ranged attack.

[Yaktan]

Just got the game after seeing this thread. So far I have been doing well with my Higher Beserker, though I only just barely completed the troll quest at the start. It reminds me of good times with ADOM, though less feasting on the flesh of my fallen foes.

[Necroticplague]

Hey, what's a good class for a non-psionic yeek? Their only good stat is Willpower, and of the classes I have that use willpower are the summoner (which gets boring after you get used to watching the Hydra turn all your enemies to paste), the Cursed (who are close-combat with Mindpower support), and Wyrmic (pretty much the same).

[Knaight]

Just got the game after seeing this thread. So far I have been doing well with my Higher Beserker, though I only just barely completed the troll quest at the start. It reminds me of good times with ADOM, though less feasting on the flesh of my fallen foes.

Have you picked a fight with Bill yet? He's at the bottom of the trollmire, and while he is a bit nasty Berserkers are among the ones better at fighting him. He also has a decent chance of dropping Bill's Club, which is an amazing item for berserkers.

Also, the game will suggest that you go straight to the Old Forest, Daikara, Sandworm Tunnel, and Maze. This is bad advice, and should be ignored - there are 6 tier 1 dungeons available to Higher non-Archmages (Trollmire, Kor'pul, Norgan's Lair, Heart of the Gloom, Rhaloren Camp, and Scintillating Caverns), all of which should be done first.

Hey, what's a good class for a non-psionic yeek? Their only good stat is Willpower, and of the classes I have that use willpower are the summoner (which gets boring after you get used to watching the Hydra turn all your enemies to paste), the Cursed (who are close-combat with Mindpower support), and Wyrmic (pretty much the same).

Archmage can be fun, though your HP pool is really bad. In any case, the real yeek advantages are in the racial tree (+15% global speed? I think so), which makes them viable with non-Willpower needing classes. Yeek Berserkers can actually work quite well, though the first two levels tend to be brutal.

[BladeofObliviom]

Archmage can be fun, though your HP pool is really bad. In any case, the real yeek advantages are in the racial tree (+15% global speed? I think so), which makes them viable with non-Willpower needing classes. Yeek Berserkers can actually work quite well, though the first two levels tend to be brutal.

I'll note that Yeek Cursed can use mindstars to get around the lack of strength and is quite powerful if you can get past the start. The start is an issue, though: Yeeks and Cursed both have slow starts.