The Elder Scrolls: It's the IX Divines, you milk-drinkers

[Winter_Wolf]

Standard bow behavior for Skyrim NPCs seems to enforce a "this is my bow. There are many like it but this one is mine" mentality. It's so ingrained that I've seen them use ONLY their specifically spawned hunting bow rather than any other hunting bow. How bad is it? If you swipe their crappy bow from their inventory they'll eventually spawn an identical crappy bow and use that. If it's killing you (and it just might be if Lydia's plinking harmlessly against enemies!) then you can that that specific bow and temper it, enchant it, whatever you need to do, then give it back to her.

That said I have a mod (*possibly* UFO--Ultimate Follower Overhaul) that lets/makes NPCs actually use superior equipment when it's provided. Unmodded Skyrim always had my followers using their default equipment even when it was just plain crap and I handed them my most powerful death-bringer weapons. Basically followers were worthless because they died before they could actually do anything and/or they heroically jumped in front of me to defend me as I was attacking with my "elephant gun" weapons. Lots of friendly fire incidents ensued.

[Calemyr]

Yeah, that bloody bow used to really tick me off as well. People who should never use bows (including tanks and mages) still pulled that thing out irritating frequency.

Ultimate Follower Overhaul (UFO) and Amazing Follower Tweaks (AFT) really do make such a big difference. In the vanilla game the followers are quirky and ineffective that bringing one along was more of a handicap than a source of backup. Use either of those mods and they actually start showing a little brain when it came to tactics and gear. (Serana is a bit of an exception, they must have put a fair bit extra work into her AI.)

[NeoVid]

I see. So, what's the best follower AI mod on the Steam Workshop? I always like having minions to help carry my loot, but I'm really getting sick of how the followers in this game won't let me through #@&%ing doorways.

[Calemyr]

I see. So, what's the best follower AI mod on the Steam Workshop? I always like having minions to help carry my loot, but I'm really getting sick of how the followers in this game won't let me through #@&%ing doorways.

I know AFT is available through Steam. Both of them do the same thing in different ways, there are several good arguments for one being better than the other.

[Triaxx]

There's also Extensible Follower Framework, or EFF, which I haven't used, but I've heard a lot of people praise it.

On the issue of Ranged weapons, I don't like giving Lydia a bow. Or any of the heavy armor followers for that matter. I know, it's not an option without Dawnguard, but the Crossbow just seems to fit better for a heavy armor user. Plus it slows them down and keeps them out of my hair for longer.

The other thing most of the follower mods do is remove the infinite arrow supply. I find that to be both good and bad. Good from an immersion stand point, bad from the point of wanting to play with ranged support and then spending half my life crafting arrows for them. I even threw together a mini-mod to let me craft arrows in larger groups. Same ratio, but larger numbers up to a 144 at a time. Which naturally consumed up to six times the resources.

[DigoDragon]

The other thing most of the follower mods do is remove the infinite arrow supply. I find that to be both good and bad. Good from an immersion stand point, bad from the point of wanting to play with ranged support and then spending half my life crafting arrows for them.

I find enough arrows laying about that i'll keep the best tier for myself and give my follower the rest. I blow through arrows a lot faster than any follower though and sometimes find myself borrowing from them.

[NineThePuma]

I like "loot breakdown" mods that let you break down things at the smelter and tanning rack.

I just break down things and make ALL the arrows.

[Winter_Wolf]

I've bought arrows of any kind maybe once or twice per character. I've crafted arrows rarely if ever. There are just way too many of the things lying around all over the place to bother with anything besides scavenging. Likewise my bows are so heavily tempered and/or enchanted that the difference in damage from ebony arrows vs. iron arrows isn't terribly noticeable. I don't bother wasting daedra hearts or dragon bones on what are essentially disposable items. Meanwhile every friendly NPC that can use them gets some very deadly daggers. My dragonborn is the kind of (ir)responsible foster parent that makes sure any adopted kid has a dagger that can one-shot your average pillager.

Then again I like hunting bandits for sport. I've never *not* had more arrows after taking out a small band than I had before I met 'em.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I looted enough Steel arrows during the Civil War battles to open an ammunition shop. Thus on subsequent playthroughs I've tried to limit myself to only looting them if I need them or if they're better than what I've got--and when I get enough "better than what I've got" to switch to the upgrades without worrying about running out, I sell the previous lot.

[NineThePuma]

Weightless Arrows are Best Arrows, tho

[Leviting]

I remember back in Morrowind how I would enter and and leave a cave with the same amount of encumbrance due to firing all my 0.1 pound crossbow bolts. Then I would naturally feel helpless when I can't kill a bloody cliffracer due to me running out of ammunition.

[Triaxx]

My last archer ended up with 1500+ elven arrows from killing thalmor and melting their armor. The expanded recipes make that crafting go a lot quicker.

I also had enough dragon bones to make three sets of each kind of armor. So I wasn't worried about using them up.

[veti]

I remember back in Morrowind how I would enter and and leave a cave with the same amount of encumbrance due to firing all my 0.1 pound crossbow bolts. Then I would naturally feel helpless when I can't kill a bloody cliffracer due to me running out of ammunition.

My very favourite spell in Morrowind was a 'Bound Bow' with 15 second duration. Magicka cost: 1 point, duration - plenty of time to kill two or three cliff racers.

I tried combining it with a ranged 'Soul Trap' effect, and discovered an interesting bug: if you do that, then kill the cliffracer and trap its soul, the bow doesn't disappear when the spell expires. Pretty soon I had a whole inventory full of un-sellable, un-droppable, but mercifully weightless daedric bows. So I reluctantly gave up on that variant.

[NineThePuma]

My very favourite spell in Morrowind was a 'Bound Bow' with 15 second duration. Magicka cost: 1 point, duration - plenty of time to kill two or three cliff racers.

I tried combining it with a ranged 'Soul Trap' effect, and discovered an interesting bug: if you do that, then kill the cliffracer and trap its soul, the bow doesn't disappear when the spell expires. Pretty soon I had a whole inventory full of un-sellable, un-droppable, but mercifully weightless daedric bows. So I reluctantly gave up on that variant.

"Eventually, I trained myself in the art of Bow Fu, and beat people to death with my bows."

[Leviting]

"Eventually, I trained myself in the art of Bow Fu, and beat people to death with my bows."

I actually did that one time in skyrim, via shield bashing with my bow. This was after me killing every guard in Markarth with an enchanted (absorb stamina) woodcutting axe.

[DigoDragon]

Started progressing further into the Civil War questline. Dang there's a lot of walking to be done. The one issue I've noticed is that Rikke often doesn't update the mission when I speak to her (It's a known bug, but fixable by talking to General Tullius first about the war). Another more amusing bug is that Rikke keeps ended up stuck in tent walls. Heehee.

discovered an interesting bug: if you do that, then kill the cliffracer and trap its soul, the bow doesn't disappear when the spell expires. Pretty soon I had a whole inventory full of un-sellable, un-droppable, but mercifully weightless daedric bows. So I reluctantly gave up on that variant.

Well that's a bit annoying. :3
Definitely glad they were weightless.

I actually did that one time in skyrim, via shield bashing with my bow. This was after me killing every guard in Markarth with an enchanted (absorb stamina) woodcutting axe.

I've bashed with my bow so many times I leveled my shield skill a few points. Oops. >_>

[Divayth Fyr]

I tried combining it with a ranged 'Soul Trap' effect, and discovered an interesting bug: if you do that, then kill the cliffracer and trap its soul, the bow doesn't disappear when the spell expires. Pretty soon I had a whole inventory full of un-sellable, un-droppable, but mercifully weightless daedric bows. So I reluctantly gave up on that variant.

That glitch works for most other effects as well - having a range soul trap component will make the effects permanent (capturing the soul - or even targetting a creature - is irrelevant). You can make yourself a permanent army, raise your stats to insane levels and make many other fun (and possibly gamebreaking things).

[NeoVid]

Still having too much fun (and too much free time burned up) on my first experience with Elder Scrolls, but I've got a couple more fast questions...

Um. Is 'moon sugar' the Tamriel word for 'cocaine?'

Also, I've been frustrated enough in my attempts to get one item that I just want to give up and cheat one into my inventory. What would be the console command to give myself a Chaos weapon? I've tried a few already, but none of the item IDs I got off the wiki worked.

[NineThePuma]

Um. Is 'moon sugar' the Tamriel word for 'cocaine?'

Also, I've been frustrated enough in my attempts to get one item that I just want to give up and cheat one into my inventory. What would be the console command to give myself a Chaos weapon? I've tried a few already, but none of the item IDs I got off the wiki worked.

That depends a lot on who you ask.

"Help Chaos" will provide a list of the appropriate IDs. However, there is a guaranteed drop for the Chaos enchantment at the end of the March of the Dead quest, which is started by sailing to ravenrock, traveling south out of town along the road, and talking to the guard you find there.

[veti]

Um. Is 'moon sugar' the Tamriel word for 'cocaine?'

Views on moon sugar vary, but (certainly in Skyrim) most people seem to carry and trade it quite openly and with no suggestion that it's illegal. (As opposed to skooma, which is allegedly derived from it, which is very illegal.)

Moon sugar is a valid alchemical ingredient, and I've never heard of any side effects from using it in this way.

Perhaps a more apt equivalence would be 'poppy seeds'.

[Avilan the Grey]

Views on moon sugar vary, but (certainly in Skyrim) most people seem to carry and trade it quite openly and with no suggestion that it's illegal. (As opposed to skooma, which is allegedly derived from it, which is very illegal.)

Moon sugar is a valid alchemical ingredient, and I've never heard of any side effects from using it in this way.

Perhaps a more apt equivalence would be 'poppy seeds'.

I see it like the difference between Coca leaves and cocaine. Not from a legal standpoint, maybe, but one is a culturally accepted thing (in parts of the world) while the other is a hard drug refined from the first.

[sana]

Still having too much fun (and too much free time burned up) on my first experience with Elder Scrolls, but I've got a couple more fast questions...

Um. Is 'moon sugar' the Tamriel word for 'cocaine?'

Also, I've been frustrated enough in my attempts to get one item that I just want to give up and cheat one into my inventory. What would be the console command to give myself a Chaos weapon? I've tried a few already, but none of the item IDs I got off the wiki worked.

Champion's Cudgel has it guaranteed. During the quest March of the dead you get that weapon or if you need a second one to get the enchantment of the item code is xx01A578 where xx is the spot in your load-order usually 04 (all dlc) or 07 (all dlc+uskp). The easy way is to check in NMM what number the load-order has for Dragonborn.esm

[Kesnit]

I came up with a character concept this morning, but am still debating how to implement it.

The PC would be a WH40K "Gray Knight" type. Heavy armor, conjuration (Bound Warhammer via a mod that adds conjured versions of all weapons), block, archery (since the game doesn't have guns) and destruction. I'm debating between Nord (for the +10 to Two-handed and +5 to Block) and Imperial (for the +5 to Block, Destruction, and Heavy Armor). Side with the Imperials (because "Imperials"). The Daedric quests are to gather the "daemon" artifacts so they can be removed from the world. Side with the Dawnguard, because vampires are obviously "Chaos spawn."

Edit: Since I wasn't clear on what I was asking...

1) What other skills would fit the fluff of a GK?
2) Are there any other mods that would work well with this theme?
3) Should I go Nord or Imperial?

[Calemyr]

I came up with a character concept this morning, but am still debating how to implement it.

The PC would be a WH40K "Gray Knight" type. Heavy armor, conjuration (Bound Warhammer via a mod that adds conjured versions of all weapons), block, archery (since the game doesn't have guns) and destruction. I'm debating between Nord (for the +10 to Two-handed and +5 to Block) and Imperial (for the +5 to Block, Destruction, and Heavy Armor). Side with the Imperials (because "Imperials"). The Daedric quests are to gather the "daemon" artifacts so they can be removed from the world. Side with the Dawnguard, because vampires are obviously "Chaos spawn."

If you're looking for a how to actually run it, it seems pretty simple. Follow the main quest (or the civil war quest) for the most part, but drop it when you hear any rumor or indication of Chaos - vampire attacks, clues to daedric artifacts, etc. Metagaming here is kinda good, as you're likely playing a guy that has a sixth sense for this sort of stuff and any minor clue will send warning bells off in his head.

I'll admit I don't know much about the WH40K setting, but I do remember that one of the popular details about it is the chainsaw sword, and there's a mod that has a dwarven equivalent to it. I think it's called the Dwemer Autoblade and it should be on the Nexus. I could certainly see a heavy knight sort decked out in dwarven armor, bearing the Autoblade and the Spellbreaker Shield. Add in the Cloaks of Skyrim to wear a purple dwarven cape and you've got a pretty imposing image. There's also the Siege Crossbow mod, which adds an ever-escalating over-designed line of dwarven crossbows that would fit the theme pretty well.

If you're talking about a personal storyline, here's one for you:

Spoiler

Show

You were only a child when the Great War was waged. Your mother and father were both soldiers in the Imperial Legion. Your mother was stationed in the Imperial City when the Thalmor took it, and she assisted in the evacuation that got you and so many out of the city before its defenses failed at last. Your father died at the Battle of the Red Mountain, buried beneath the soot and ash but honored for his part in a battle that turned the Great War from a losing proposition to a stalemate. Your memories from back then are strange, as any childhood memory would be: less recollections of facts and more flashes of action and emotion, vague and yet as sharp and as real as a naked blade. Sometimes, usually when she'd had too much to drink, your mother would tell you of the war - not tales of valor and glory, but instead the real ones about pain and struggle and loss and Chaos. It was the Chaos that stuck with you, that echoed so loudly against the muted memories of panic that have never left you since leaving the Imperial City.

In the years since, your mother has taught you to fight like a Legionnaire, but she has always resisted any suggestion that you join the Imperial Legion yourself. She claims that the Legion has become little more than a puppet of the Thalmor, a bitter insult to your father's memory and the spineless coward her emperor has become. Instead, you found other, smaller ways to make your name - a little adventuring, a little ruin exploration, some militia work, things like that. You've spent most of your life trying to fight the Chaos that marked you as a child, but nothing you've done has had any real impact. You might as well try to stop a flood with your bare hands.

Then the Stormcloak Rebellion came, and something inside you changed. The Chaos of a civil war called to your heart while something else, something ancient and distant and yet so very close, something else spoke to your soul, and your mother could see from the look in your eye that there was nothing she could do to quench the fires that had now been stoked within you. Every fiber of your being demanded you go to Skyrim. It called to you. There you would find purpose, there you would find meaning... and there you would find something that was just a memory from your childhood. You would find your oldest friend and your greatest foe, the bane of your life and the foundation of your soul. You would find Chaos, my friend, and it would find you.

And I have to wonder... When it comes down to it, when fire rains from the heavens and the fields run with blood and you come face to face with Chaos once more, how will that meeting go? Will you strike it down with the combined malice of three decades of bitter loss and righteous fury? Or will you embrace it like a long lost lover, and find that what had scarred you so long ago continues to define you to this day? The foundations of the world shake in anticipation, and so do I.

[Kesnit]

If you're looking for a how to actually run it, it seems pretty simple. Follow the main quest (or the civil war quest) for the most part, but drop it when you hear any rumor or indication of Chaos - vampire attacks, clues to daedric artifacts, etc. Metagaming here is kinda good, as you're likely playing a guy that has a sixth sense for this sort of stuff and any minor clue will send warning bells off in his head.

Yeah, sorry, I wasn't very clear on what I was asking. Part of my post was "what other skills would fit the fluff of a GK?" Part was "are there any other mods that would work well with this theme?" (I'll edit my post to make that clearer.)

I'll admit I don't know much about the WH40K setting, but I do remember that one of the popular details about it is the chainsaw sword, and there's a mod that has a dwarven equivalent to it. I think it's called the Dwemer Autoblade and it should be on the Nexus.

Found it! GK's don't carry chain blades, but that mod will work well when I turn on all the 40K mods that I have downloaded. (I planned to do a 40K playthrough once I finish the ones I'm doing.)

There's also the Siege Crossbow mod,

Interesting looking mod, but not really my style. Besides, I already have Immersive Weapons, which allows crafting crossbows the same way you can craft any weapon. (Using a forge. Up through dragon bone.)

[NineThePuma]

Why not ask in a 40k thread for help?

[Kesnit]

Why not ask in a 40k thread for help?

I thought about it, but thought it would be more likely for ES fans to be familiar with 40K, than 40K fans to be familiar with Skyrim.

[NineThePuma]

40k is, at least as far as I'm aware, a fairly niche interest on a D&D forum; I haven't encountered much about it and I'm actually friends with 40k heads, so.

On the other hand, skyrim has over 20 million physical (Ie, not counting Steam) copies sold.


The odds of you finding a fan of both is pretty equal, but on our board it's pretty likely you're gonna find it easier to sort by 40k fans than by skyrim fans. (I know a significant chunk of my friends who play skyrim and are on this board, do not care in the slightest about this thread).

[Kesnit]

I went ahead and posted to the 40K thread. Can't hurt.

[DomaDoma]

So, I'm playing Morrowind for the first time, and can I just say it's very welcome for the first plot-related quest to be "eh, go do whatever and then get back to me"? The thing about Oblivion and (to a lesser degree) Skyrim is you're kind of forced to choose between either forceful suspension of disbelief that the main quest is all that big a deal, or forceful suspension of disbelief that no one in the post-game sidequests knows you from Adam.