Do you know where Alabama is?

[Chen]

Yo. As an Australian, I don't care how big you think Alabama is, Western Australia is several times bigger, and I would bet cold hard monies that the only reason most foreigners would be able to say roughly where it is if asked is because it has its location right there in the name. Yet no Australian* would be so arrogant and self-involved as to say that the state of WA is of at least equivalent international significance as an entire sovereign state.

To be fair Western Australia and Slovenia are pretty close population wise (~2.5 million vs 2 million respectively). That said the GDP for Slovenia is ~$48 billion whereas Western Australia's is something like $250k (Gross State Product). Going along that note Alabama has a population of ~4 million and a GDP (well GSP) of ~$165 billion. So Alabama probably does have more worldwide influence in terms of population and GDP that Slovenia, let alone the fact that it's a US state which ostensibly gives it the backing of the entire US government in terms of influence anyways.

All that is merely a technicality though and is pretty irrelevant to the whole situation. The reporter wanted to make the American look bad and failed (unless of course there was some other retort that is not being reported). For reference, I'm Canadian before anyone decides that my statement here is biased. I can safely say we dislike the Americans just as much as we dislike the Europeans :P

[Serpentine]

That's great. But it's still a state, and Slovenia is still a nation. They are not equivalent.

[Eldan]

At least you don't, as far as I know, have half-states. We do.

[Serpentine]

I don't know what a half-state is. Our states are divided up into smaller regions and electorates, though...

[Chen]

That's great. But it's still a state, and Slovenia is still a nation. They are not equivalent.

And? The state in question has more population and more economic clout. It probably has a larger military as well. Hell its even bigger on the map. I'd guess its probably more well known globally as well, considering there's a chance the massive rural populations in China and India MAY have heard Sweet Home Alabama compared to hearing anything about Slovenia. It's more prominent in most quantifiable ways, I'm not really clear why you couldn't compare them. The US->States relationship is very similar to the EU->countries relationships, especially in terms of these southern states (see State's Rights and the whole civil war business). Perhaps it's not the same in Australia regarding your territories, but being from Quebec, and having a number of friends/colleagues from various US states, your provincial/state identity can be equal if not more prominent than your national identity.

[Serpentine]

And... a state is not a country, and does not have the international significance of a country. It's pretty simple. There is no reason why someone should be considered as geographically illiterate for not knowing the location of a single state of a foreign country as for not knowing the location of an entire foreign country. It was a stupid question in the first place but, again, this guy is reinforcing this concept of Ameri-centricity (is that a word?) by equating a state to a country. How many people and how much money doesn't come into it. The "Alabama's big tho" argument carries much more weight, and that doesn't stand up either.

[Eldan]

I don't know what a half-state is. Our states are divided up into smaller regions and electorates, though...

A full state gets two seats in parliament. A half-state only gets one. Also, their vote only counts as half a vote when voting on whether to change the constitution.

As for population and size, Uttar Pradesh has almost 200 million people on its own. Does that mean it's roughly two thirds as important as the entire US?

[Spiryt]

And? The state in question has more population and more economic clout. It probably has a larger military as well. Hell its even bigger on the map. I'd guess its probably more well known globally as well, considering there's a chance the massive rural populations in China and India MAY have heard Sweet Home Alabama compared to hearing anything about Slovenia. It's more prominent in most quantifiable ways, I'm not really clear why you couldn't compare them.

Well, whether you cross the border between Alabama and Mississippi, or Georgia, or whatever or you fly from Colorado all the way, you will still be speaking the same language, have similar institutions, and whatever.

If you drive from Italy or Austria, you will meet pretty different world, you will likely have to communicate in English.

Face different customs, economy or whatever.

I would say this is most important distinction, the rest of your post makes sense.

The US->States relationship is very similar to the EU->countries relationships,

Not really.

[Prince Raven]

I'm looking forward to the next UN meeting where the US tries to vote 50 times because "The US->States relationship is very similar to the EU->countries relationships".

[Asta Kask]

Or when they admit that India is four times as important as the U.S.

[Reverent-One]

Umm, how do you know the reporter's motives behind his question, and that he's a "simpleminded, manipulative jerk" (especially the "simpelminded" part)?

Pretty much no one in this thread is considering that the journlists intentions were anything other than ask a loaded question to make the American look bad. There wasn't really a point to it otherwise. As for the "simpleminded" part, if one thinks knowing/not knowing a piece of geographic trivia is worth ridiculing someone other, yeah, I'd say they're pretty simpleminded.

[Teddy]

And? The state in question has more population and more economic clout. It probably has a larger military as well. Hell its even bigger on the map. I'd guess its probably more well known globally as well, considering there's a chance the massive rural populations in China and India MAY have heard Sweet Home Alabama compared to hearing anything about Slovenia. It's more prominent in most quantifiable ways, I'm not really clear why you couldn't compare them. The US->States relationship is very similar to the EU->countries relationships, especially in terms of these southern states (see State's Rights and the whole civil war business). Perhaps it's not the same in Australia regarding your territories, but being from Quebec, and having a number of friends/colleagues from various US states, your provincial/state identity can be equal if not more prominent than your national identity.

But it's not prominent in media, not over here, and that accounts for a whole lot. When something happens abroad, it generally happens in "[city], [country]", no matter whether the country in question happens to be Slovenia or the USA. The only time the states are mentioned is when it's about controversial state-wide laws or the American elections, or something concerning the countryside (usually droughts).

[Chen]

In terms of how people from those states/countries see themselves was what I meant by that comparison. You talk to someone from Quebec? They're a Quebecer first and then a Canadian. Many of the Southern states (Texas probably most notably) are quite similar. And of course there are distinctions between states and countries, the UN being a good example.

The importance or prominence of a state or country is fairly subjective anyways. I provided what quantitative numbers I could. Without studies on whether more people in the world know of Slovenia or Alabama, I can't give any quantifiable data there. Just the fact that one is a nation and another a state is fairly irrelevant. If I decided to compare California to Nauru, that somehow more reasonable to know where the latter is because it's a nation compared to the former which is only a state?

[Gwynfrid]

And? The state in question has more population and more economic clout. It probably has a larger military as well.

It doesn't have a military at all. The US has a military, some units of which happen to be stationed in the state in question.

The US->States relationship is very similar to the EU->countries relationships.

Not even close. Not only this suggestion is quite misinformed, but a great many people will find it offensive.

Generally, what Serpentine is trying to say is this: Any argument along the lines of "my place got more land/people/$/army than yours, so my place is more important than your place" feeds into the crassest of anti-American stereotypes. As somebody coming from the European side and trying my best to fight such stereotypes as often as I can, I request that you please avoid that counter-productive approach.

[Asta Kask]

As for population and size, Uttar Pradesh has almost 200 million people on its own. Does that mean it's roughly two thirds as important as the entire US?

This is a very interesting question. I would very much like the answer to this.

[Reverent-One]

Generally, what Serpentine is trying to say is this: Any argument along the lines of "my place got more land/people/$/army than you, so my place is more important that your place" feeds into the crassest of anti-American stereotypes. As somebody coming from the European side and trying my best to fight such stereotypes as often as I can, I request that you please avoid that counter-productive approach.

Hey now, he already said he's Canadian, don't group him in with us.

[Gwynfrid]

Hey now, he already said he's Canadian, don't group him in with us.

I got that. Nevertheless, I do ask him to please not help spread anti-American stereotypes, as I ask the same from everyone. It doesn't help anybody.

[Serpentine]

In terms of how people from those states/countries see themselves was what I meant by that comparison. You talk to someone from Quebec? They're a Quebecer first and then a Canadian. Many of the Southern states (Texas probably most notably) are quite similar. And of course there are distinctions between states and countries, the UN being a good example.

And that is irrelevant, because we're not talking about how Alabamians feel about being in Alabama, we're talking about foreigners being aware of places foreign to them. How these places feel about themselves doesn't come into it.
And incidentally, banging on about how people in these states totally relate to their states like people in Europe relate to their countries despite a chorus of Europeans explaining why that isn't the same at all isn't really helping this case.

Just the fact that one is a nation and another a state is fairly irrelevant.

No, it's the whole point.

If I decided to compare California to Nauru, that somehow more reasonable to know where the latter is because it's a nation compared to the former which is only a state?

If you're talking to someone who doesn't live in the US, sure. Especially in Australia, considering Nauru's importance here for non-forum-friendly reasons.

Generally, what Serpentine is trying to say is this: Any argument along the lines of "my place got more land/people/$/army than yours, so my place is more important than your place" feeds into the crassest of anti-American stereotypes. As somebody coming from the European side and trying my best to fight such stereotypes as often as I can, I request that you please avoid that counter-productive approach.

Yeah, that.
(and see also: "American" vs all of North America and sometimes Middle and South America)

[Eldan]

In terms of how people from those states/countries see themselves was what I meant by that comparison. You talk to someone from Quebec? They're a Quebecer first and then a Canadian.

And I'm a St. Galler before Swiss before European*. So?

*Actually, I've never really thought of myself as "a European". Even "Swiss" is a sort of very vague concept.

[Asta Kask]

I'm more Swedish than Göte - that hardly registers. European? Yeah, I suppose so.

[Gnomvid]

I'm most definitely not "European" I'm Swedish.

Edit: I may even go as far as to call my self "Puling" most wouldn't be able to pronounce this even Swedes especially from the South Pålänge bo maybe, as "Puling" is how it's said in Bondska around the villages there.

[Prince Raven]

I must say, anyone coming to this thread hoping to see the "self-important American" stereotype being debunked is going to be pretty disappointed.

[Jay R]

Alabama is at least as important to the history of North America as Slovenia is to the history of Europe. It's 6 1/2 times larger, it has more than twice as many people, and its GDP is three times larger. It's been around in its current political form either 6 1/2 or 8 1/2 times as long as Slovenia (depending on whether you count "its current political form" from 1819 or 1865).

None of which matters. The reporter was trying to set up a sneer at Americans, and DeMarcus Cousins refused to let him. The point to his response was, "I don't know the geography of your continent, and you don't know the geography of my continent. Please don't try to pretend that those are different." It was rhetoric, not analysis - and successful rhetoric at that.

[Serpentine]

Hexcept that, as has been pointed out a number of times, by equating his state with their entire country, he reinforced the stereotype of USofAmericans as insular and self-important that he was trying to highlight in that asinine question. It wasn't "successful rhetoric". There are no winners here. No one gets out of this looking good.

[Reverent-One]

Hexcept that, as has been pointed out a number of times, by equating his state with their entire country, he reinforced the stereotype of USofAmericans as insular and self-important that he was trying to highlight in that asinine question.

Only if he was equating it in terms of importance. If he was more reasonably equating it in terms of comparison of his and the reporter's geographic knowledge, there's nothing terribly self-important about that.

[Asta Kask]

Only if he was equating it in terms of importance. If he was more reasonably equating it in terms of comparison of his and the reporter's geographic knowledge, there's nothing terrible self-important about that.

Since we can't read minds we'll have to settle this the old-fashioned way. Duel at dawn. Serpentine, you choose what weapons to use. Cats are not allowed.

[Eldan]

None of which matters. The reporter was trying to set up a sneer at Americans, and DeMarcus Cousins refused to let him. The point to his response was, "I don't know the geography of your continent, and you don't know the geography of my continent. Please don't try to pretend that those are different." It was rhetoric, not analysis - and successful rhetoric at that.

If he was talking about the continent, he could have asked about one of the Carribean nations. There's a ton of those, they are tiny, and I'm pretty sure hte reporter wouldn't know which are which. The US is quite easy to find on a map.

[Serpentine]

Only if he was equating it in terms of importance. If he was more reasonably equating it in terms of comparison of his and the reporter's geographic knowledge, there's nothing terrible self-important about that.

And I would consider giving them the benefit of the doubt, as I mentioned earlier, that he was going for an "easy to see on a map" comparison, but that isn't the message that he ends up sending out. The message he sends is, instead, "my country is so important that even our states are at least as important as your whole nations. If you expect me to know where you entire country is, well, I expect you to know where one little part of my country is, because that's what your country is to me".
It was an off the cuff response to a question that should never have been asked, but it was by no means the great stereotype-busting victory that it's being made out to be.

[Terraoblivion]

So what has Alabama done that's on par in significance with Slovenia having a veto on the vast majority of EU legislation? It doesn't have the political clout of even tiny, poor Slovenia. Just like it has never had a seat on the UN security council or an independent voice in the setting of UN conservation policy. Not just that, the ideological weight of defending Slovenia's right to exist is far greater than defending that of Alabama's right to exist as a political entity simply because the concept of a nation state is that strong. Non-Americans wouldn't bat an eye at an American law that dissolved Alabama and split its territory between Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia and Florida. Municipalities and counties are dissolved and remade all the time and most people don't realize the degree of sovereignty US states have. But Croatia invading Slovenia would trigger a deep political crisis across the world and the overwhelming majority of people who had never even heard about Slovenia before would side with it. Between seats in international organizations and the sheer strength of the ideology of the nation state, Slovenia is far more important than the larger Alabama with its greater population and GDP.

Also, I have to ask about the journalist. Where in Europe was he from, there is almost no way he was labeled a "European" journalist in the interview? If he was Slovenian his motives would be obvious, he's proud of his country and fully aware of its short life and overall fragility. If he's from a minor Eastern European country he would have a similar pressure towards having Slovenia properly recognized the solidify perceptions of small Eastern European countries being real countries deserving of respect as being that.

And even if not, a British or German journalist would still operate on the basic assumption that Slovenia is a country and a member of the EU and is completely deserving of being taken seriously like that, because that's what the perception is in Europe. With the ancient conflicts simmering underneath the surface of the continent showing an interest in countries you have to deal with in some fashion is seen as somewhat of a civic duty to maintain the respect that underpins the current peaceful situation. If the athlete had been German and had replied with "no, do you know where Sachsen-Anhalt is?" there'd have been a lot of anger leveled at him for being arrogant and insensitive as well. Especially if the journalist had been Slovene himself. There would too if the country in question had been Benin and not a European one. So I don't think it'd have been about trying to reveal American insensitivity, it's just what you do in Europe, including to other Europeans.

[Serpentine]

There is that potential too. I personally expect that it was the journalist's intent to mock the silly ignorant Murican, but it's also possible that it was meant more like how I might ask someone "Do you know where Tallangatta is?" just because it's so exciting when someone does, since it's such an obscure little place that no one's ever heard of.